Jon
You will be getting fed up with me I’m afraid but I have had a problem with scoring NHC. This is after two races and looking at the handicaps for the third race this coming Saturday.
I am attaching the file that I used for NHC (updated slightly from the previous one that I sent you) and the published result sheet.
I am also attaching a copy of a spreadsheet that I have made with the NHC TCFs that we started with for Race 1 compared with the projected TCFs for Race 3.
I have sorted the sheet them by the right hand column which is the difference between Race 3 and the NHC base.
The left hand column is the boat name obviously and I have highlighted the winning boats in purple and the losing boats in green. I can understand most changes in TCF but there seem to be some unexpected anomalies.
For instance Black Diamond did better than JPH yet her handicap has gone down whereas JPH’s has gone up.
And Wild Blue did much better than One More Knot and yet their handicaps for race 3 are exactly the same
Also although scoring NHC all one fleet it seemed to give an overall result but the Excel sheet only showed the Club Boats?
I can’t figure out what is going on and would appreciate some advice
Hi Jim,
I see that you have 2 fleets Club and IRC but the scoring is set to score all competitors as one group.
Did they all sail the same course etc. If that is the case for NHC calculations you need to have the same fleet name. If you want to score them as two separate fleets then you need to score them as groups (for fleet)
Let me know which your intention is.
Jon
···
Jon Eskdale
Sailwave
03333 443377
07976 709777
On 27 March 2014 14:49, jimpage@me.com wrote:
Jon
You will be getting fed up with me I’m afraid but I have had a problem with scoring NHC. This is after two races and looking at the handicaps for the third race this coming Saturday.
I am attaching the file that I used for NHC (updated slightly from the previous one that I sent you) and the published result sheet.
I am also attaching a copy of a spreadsheet that I have made with the NHC TCFs that we started with for Race 1 compared with the projected TCFs for Race 3.
I have sorted the sheet them by the right hand column which is the difference between Race 3 and the NHC base.
The left hand column is the boat name obviously and I have highlighted the winning boats in purple and the losing boats in green. I can understand most changes in TCF but there seem to be some unexpected anomalies.
For instance Black Diamond did better than JPH yet her handicap has gone down whereas JPH’s has gone up.
And Wild Blue did much better than One More Knot and yet their handicaps for race 3 are exactly the same
Also although scoring NHC all one fleet it seemed to give an overall result but the Excel sheet only showed the Club Boats?
I can’t figure out what is going on and would appreciate some advice
This may be the problem Jon
We have two fleets racing IRC and Club
But because both the IRC and Club boats have widely different TCFs in order to run the racing we run the racing in two divisions. Fast and Slow with 10 minutes between the starts. The slow boats go first so that there is not too long a wait before the second start of the day. But they all sail the same course.
I have made another SW file and entered the times again and am attaching it to this message. This time after scoring the TCFs didn’t change from the default value and when I ran it in debug mode it found an error. I restarted the computer and had another go and this time scoring worked but there were still some very odd TCFs for the third race which is tomorrow! I am attaching a copy of my new effort at making a SW file for TCF together with a copy of the same spreadsheet that I sent you last time showing the changes from Base NHC to Race 3.
I’m afraid that I cannot understand what I am doing wrong!!
Hi Jim,
This is your file. At first glance it seems OK to me
The Ranks 1-5 all have their TCF’s being adjusted upward
Ranks 6-13 all have their TCF’s being adjusted downward
4 boats at rank 14 have not change as they have not raced.
Which ones do you consider to be strange?
![Inline images 1]()
I notice you didn’t carry the ratings from 2013 forward to 2014 - is there any reason?
If you have NHC ratings from previous series and you wish to use them you could enter them as the ratings for race 1 (Not the Default Rating) - Just make sure that the default rating is the NHC Base rating.
To display ratings in Sailwave as shown above Press F6 then R
Let me know what you think
Jon
···
Jon Eskdale
Sailwave
03333 443377
07976 709777
On 28 March 2014 17:01, jimpage@me.com wrote:
This may be the problem Jon
We have two fleets racing IRC and Club
But because both the IRC and Club boats have widely different TCFs in order to run the racing we run the racing in two divisions. Fast and Slow with 10 minutes between the starts. The slow boats go first so that there is not too long a wait before the second start of the day. But they all sail the same course.
I have made another SW file and entered the times again and am attaching it to this message. This time after scoring the TCFs didn’t change from the default value and when I ran it in debug mode it found an error. I restarted the computer and had another go and this time scoring worked but there were still some very odd TCFs for the third race which is tomorrow! I am attaching a copy of my new effort at making a SW file for TCF together with a copy of the same spreadsheet that I sent you last time showing the changes from Base NHC to Race 3.
I’m afraid that I cannot understand what I am doing wrong!!
Thanks Jon
I don’t know why I couldn’t get that result when I was using that file. Anyway I have now made another file and it seems to me that it is working perfectly now. I am attaching a copy of a spreadsheet that I have made to illustrate how NHC works and you can see that I am now getting the right results.
I started with new NHC numbers this year because that was what I think that we were advised by the RYA technical director especially as we had a number of new and/or different competitors and as it is a 9 race series we should get a good result
Many thanks for you patience and I hope that I don’t have to bother you again
Jim
Hi
Are you still testing Android if you are I would be glad to help.
Nick
RCYC Sailig Sec
···
On Tuesday, 25 March 2014, 13:50, “halandrews@yahoo.co.uk” halandrews@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Obvious now you mention it! Thanks. Hal
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
**From:
**
Malcolm Osborne malcolmo@telkomsa.net;
**To:
**
sailwave@yahoogroups.com;
**Subject:
**
Re: [sailwave] Anyone up for some NHC Testing of 2014 version?
**Sent:
**
Tue, Mar 25, 2014 8:50:13 AM
Apart from an exercise in learning to
set up alias, wouldn’t it be simpler to rescore your series with
NHC and save under another file name?
regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield South Africa
On 2014/03/25 10:09, hal andrews wrote:
Hi,
I am about to have the last race in our 6 race
Winter Series, which was done using our PY system.
However I would like to run duplicate sets of results,
the other being NHC. I have seen reference to using
aliases to do this? Is there a FAQ or such that I can
use to show me how? I guess I will use the 2014 system
for the who series.
Be grateful for any pointers on where to look
thanks
Hal
On
Monday, 24 March 2014, 21:25, Paul Craig
sailtastic@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
Jon,
What happens if the rating is
placed in the default rating for the
competitor?
I'm sorry but this all seems a
totally unecessary complication.
When one series finishes, it
should be easy for the casual user
to take the ‘next race NHC number’
and place it into the new series
sheet as the start point for the
next series.
Paul
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
From: jon@sailwave.com
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 21:20:48
+0000
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Anyone
up for some NHC Testing of 2014
version?
Hi Paul,
The 2014 version
realigns after every
race so there is no
need to realign.
One thing to note
is that the default
ratings must always be
NHC base numbers
although you can start
a series with
different ratings
these must be entered
into the race 1
ratings not the
default rating for
the competitor.
so to start a
follow on series with
NHC 2014 enter the
ending ratings that is
the ratings that the
previous series
calculated for the
next(non existant)
race, into the ratings
for race one.
Jon
Jon
Eskdale
Sailwave
03333 443377
07976 709777
On
24 March 2014 20:37,
Paul Craig sailtastic@hotmail.co.uk
wrote:
Sorry
Jon,
One more
question. On
the previous
version when
you completed
a series, you
simply took
the re-aligned
rating at the
end to use as
the start
rating for the
next series.
Given that the
2014 has no
re-alignment,
how do we
start the next
series, or
should we
re-score using
the ext mode,
in order to
get the
re-aligned
figure?
Cheers
Paul
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
From: jon@sailwave.com
Date: Sun, 23
Mar 2014
22:55:44 +0000
Subject: Re:
[sailwave]
Anyone up for
some NHC
Testing of
2014 version?
Thanks
Paul.
There is
quite a bit of
difference it
calculates the
new ratings
and then does
a standard
deviation of
the changes.
The extreme
performers
then get their
adjustments
made at a
slower rate,
while normal
performers get
theirs changed
more. All new
ratings are
then realigned
after each
race. So
there are
quite a lot
more
calculations
going on in
the background
although it is
now easier for
the users, as
there is no
realignment
needed, and
all the
calculations
are normally
invisible to
them.
Although
using the
external mode
they can all
be verified.
I've
updated the
Sailwave main
app to reflect
the removal of
Regatta mode -
If anyone
would like to
check it out
and any
comments would
be welcome
You can
find the
latest
bleeding edge
version here
currently
2.14.10
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/220425/sailwave.exe
Jon
Jon
Eskdale
Sailwave
03333
443377
07976
709777
On 23 > > March 2014 > > 22:05, Paul > > Craig <sailtastic@hotmail.co.uk> > > wrote:
Jon
all seems
fine. I get
the same
results on int
& ext
modes.
Out of
interest how
much
difference is
there between
2013 modes and
2014?
The
reason I ask
is that I
didnt noticed
a difference
between the
results score
using last
years file and
this years.
Paul
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
From: jon@sailwave.com
Date: Sun, 23
Mar 2014
11:26:26 -0700
Subject:
[sailwave]
Anyone up for
some NHC
Testing of
2014 version?
Hi All,
As most
of you know
the RYA have
change the
specification
for NHC for
2014.
Approx 6
weeks ago I
issued a new
template that
supported the
new standard
when you were
working in
External/
Excel mode.
Today I have
updated the
SWHelper file,
so that
internal mode
will also use
the 2014
specification.
You can
download the
new
SWHelper.exe
from
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/220425/SWHelper.EXE
If you
replace the
SWHelper.exe
which is in
the Sailwave
Program
directory with
this new
version (V1.4)
then internal
calculations
will use the
2014 rules
If you
want to use
the 2013 rules
for any reason
then you need
to use the old
version
(V1.3.2) this
is available
at:- https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/220425/SWHelper1-3-2.EXE
remember to
rename it to
SWHelper.exe
when you put
it in the
Sailwave
program
directory.
For those
that have
missed it
previously the
NHC 2014
template is
available at
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/220425/SWNHC3.xls
Note the
RYA have
enhanced what
was the club
mode and
removed the
regatta mode
so there is
just a single
NHC now which
is a bit
simpler.
I've
tested this
new internal
mode against
the test file
and I get the
same results
for internal
and external
modes of
calculation
(Phew!!!) But
if anyone
could run some
of their data
through it -
There’s
nothing like
trying real
data. a) let
me know if the
internal and
external ever
get different
results -
hopefully not
and b) are the
results
sensible!! I
would be very
grateful.
Note the
RYA have
specified a
minimum no of
Finishers of 3
before ratings
get changed.
This can be
adjusted in
the Template
very easily
and also the
internal
calculation
can be changed
by the use of
an ini file.
I'll
shortly be
updating the
main Sailwave
app to remove
the regatta
mode but if
you use club
mode with any
version from
2.9.7 onwards
then it should
work just
fine.
Jon
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