Beta Versions

Imported from Yahoo
21

As a crude experiment I just took an old HTML file picked at random and search and replaced

with

The HTML had 14 entries across 24 races, and included race tables for each excluding DNCs. So yes it wasn’t huge although there were well over 1000

's

It was 57kb and rose to 88kb by doing that. Shortening “someclass” to “sc” reduces that to 76kb, so I guess a bit fo code tidying could probably push it closer still towards the original value.

Deleting the minimal CSS in the page saved 1kb! But I would agree a linked style sheet is the logical thing to do although makes config more complex.

I know many places are on slow connections - but even at 9.6kbaud (dial up via analogue mobile!) thats 1.2kbytes / second. So a 100kb file should upload in 83 seconds. Allowing for handshakes etc - 2 minutes.

For the same reason (smaller files) I would shy away from using
Javascript to simply change a few column headings from English to some
other language. Better to do that right in Sailwave so the output HTML
is minimized in size.

OR - are we doing this all wrong? Should we be uploading an XML file with an XSLT? Not sure what size the XML would be? (Presumably the field names will influence that - and it may make sense to use the ISAF names…)

However - has the potential that you could have two or three XSLT files (overall results, individual races etc) uplaoded and then JUST upload the XML data each time a race is scored…

I think the XSLT file would actually be quite compact though as it has loops in it.

http://www.w3schools.com/xml/tryxslt.asp?xmlfile=simple&xsltfile=simple

Since the sailwave file is already in XML format you’d think this is easy. My biggest concern would be putting the whole BLW file on will include info you wouldn’t want on a webserver (email, medical conditions etc).

22

I can see I’m in a minority of 1 here, so go ahead. I tried it once as an experiment, more than doubled the size of the HTML, ran into big issues with precedence, and dropped the idea. End of discussion!

Ian.

···

On 15 November 2012 22:55, Art Engel artengel123@earthlink.net wrote:

Ian,

Not sure I completely understand your comment. If you link a CSS
stylesheet to a webpage it is always used - end of story. There is no
opting in or opting out (actually, there is an add-on for Firefox that
allows ignoring a CSS stylesheet but my point is that the ability to do
that is not native and I would guess less than 1/10 of 1% of users can
do it; I know I cannot). So, class attributes will ALWAYS be used to the
extent that the CSS stylesheet for a webpage uses them. They should be
there for every

tag so that webpage designers can use them when
they want to.

Your comment about “most users use the default CSS” is, I believe, about
stuff like whether links and visited links are highlighted in a certain
color - none of which is changed by your typical CSS stylesheet but if
it were then I believe the stylesheet would take precedence anyway.

The trick is to make your HTML files as small as possible AND NO
SMALLER. I would rate having a class id for each

tag in a table as
necessary for modern web browsers to implement HTML styles correctly.
Thus, I wouldn’t advocate leaving out important functionality just to
make the files 10% smaller.

I agree with your comment about making HTML files as small as possible.
So, I would advocate using an external CSS stylesheet rather than
embedded styles (the latter is the default for Sailwave but can be
changed). That has two advantages - (1) since you are using the
stylesheet for multiple pages I believe your browser only needs to
download the file once (unless the stylesheet has changed) and (2) that
makes it easy to implement the same style across multiple webpages and
change the style for all those pages by changing a single stylesheet.

For the same reason (smaller files) I would shy away from using
Javascript to simply change a few column headings from English to some
other language. Better to do that right in Sailwave so the output HTML
is minimized in size.

Art

PS - You are 100% right about the tags having limited
functionality. But, that is life and we are stuck with it.

On 11/15/2012 2:13 PM, Ian Savell wrote:

The point is that attributes on tags are limited. Of course you can

add a class to every TD but a big result page with class attributes on

every TD can be of considerable size, and users have to live with that

whether their CSS uses the class attributes or not (and most users use the

default CSS). Not everyone has huge bandwidth, and GSM is frequently the

only comms medium in remote locations like sailing clubs.

Ian…

On 15 November 2012 20:29,yahoo@wittongilbert.free-online.co.uk wrote:

**

**

On 2012-11-15 10:21, Ian Savell wrote:

Colin’s comment just pre-empted mine, but I’ll make it anyway. Sailwave

HTML did add a class to the columns to permit CSS formatting of each

column, in particular to make some columns left aligned and others centred.

But HTML/CSS in its wisdom allows very few attributes to be set in this way

so it doesn’t work.

Must be missing something! Just apply the style to the

using

classes

// allows you to add vertical stripes

That allocation of classes needs to happen in the code. Naming by header

name makes sense…

My own result publishing tried the same trick, and I then tried adding

a class to each

to achieve the same thing. Such a proliferation of

class tags makes the HTML much longer,

Its not exactly the end of the world in coding world - we should be

worrying about getting the right output then reducing the file size. But

in my example above class names could be shortened if need be to rL, rO,

rE, p if you wanted…

which can be an issue when publishing to, say, a phone,

Getting a results page that views/navigates well on a phone would be a

priority over speed of download.

23
···

see my 1-8
solution list

  On 16/11/2012 14:44, Ian Savell wrote:

Cheers,

    Colin J

http://op12no2.me

          I can see I'm in a minority of 1 here, so go ahead. I

tried it once as an experiment, more than doubled the size
of the HTML, ran into big issues with precedence, and
dropped the idea. End of discussion!

          Ian.

            On 15 November 2012 22:55, Art

Engel artengel123@earthlink.net
wrote:

�
Ian,

                        Not sure I completely understand your

comment. If you link a CSS
stylesheet to a webpage it is always used -
end of story. There is no
opting in or opting out (actually, there is
an add-on for Firefox that
allows ignoring a CSS stylesheet but my
point is that the ability to do
that is not native and I would guess less
than 1/10 of 1% of users can
do it; I know I cannot). So, class
attributes will ALWAYS be used to the
extent that the CSS stylesheet for a webpage
uses them. They should be
there for every

tag so that
webpage designers can use them when
they want to. 
                        Your comment about "most users use the

default CSS" is, I believe, about
stuff like whether links and visited links
are highlighted in a certain
color - none of which is changed by your
typical CSS stylesheet but if
it were then I believe the stylesheet would
take precedence anyway.

                        The trick is to make your HTML files as

small as possible AND NO
SMALLER. I would rate having a class id for
each

tag in a table as
necessary for modern web browsers to
implement HTML styles correctly.
Thus, I wouldn’t advocate leaving out
important functionality just to
make the files 10% smaller. 
                        I agree with your comment about making HTML

files as small as possible.
So, I would advocate using an external CSS
stylesheet rather than
embedded styles (the latter is the default
for Sailwave but can be
changed). That has two advantages - (1)
since you are using the
stylesheet for multiple pages I believe your
browser only needs to
download the file once (unless the
stylesheet has changed) and (2) that
makes it easy to implement the same style
across multiple webpages and
change the style for all those pages by
changing a single stylesheet.

                        For the same reason (smaller files) I would

shy away from using
Javascript to simply change a few column
headings from English to some
other language. Better to do that right in
Sailwave so the output HTML
is minimized in size.

                        Art

                        PS - You are 100% right about the
tags having limited functionality. But, that is life and we are stuck with it. 
                        On 11/15/2012 2:13 PM, Ian Savell wrote:

                        > The point is that attributes

on tags are limited. Of course
you can

                        > add a class to every TD but a big

result page with class attributes on

                        > every TD can be of considerable size,

and users have to live with that

                        > whether their CSS uses the class

attributes or not (and most users use the

                        > default CSS). Not everyone has huge

bandwidth, and GSM is frequently the

                        > only comms medium in remote locations

like sailing clubs.

                        >

                        > Ian..

                        >

                        >

                        > On 15 November 2012 20:29,<yahoo@wittongilbert.free-online.co.uk                            >

wrote:

                        >

**

                      >>

                      >>

                      >> **


                          >>

                          >> On 2012-11-15 10:21, Ian Savell

wrote:

                          >>

                          >>

                          >>

                          >> Colin's comment just pre-empted

mine, but I’ll make it anyway. Sailwave

                          >> HTML did add a class to the

columns to permit CSS formatting of each

                          >> column, in particular to make

some columns left aligned and others
centred.

                          >> But HTML/CSS in its wisdom allows

very few attributes to be set in this way

                          >> so it doesn't work.

                          >>

                          >> Must be missing something! Just

apply the style to the

using 
                          >> classes

                          >>

                          >> <td class='row_label'>

                          >>

                          >> <td class='result_odd'>

                          >>

                          >> <td class='result_even'> //

allows you to add vertical stripes

                          >>

                          >> <td class='points'>

                          >>

                          >> That allocation of classes needs

to happen in the code. Naming by header

                          >> name makes sense...

                          >>

                          >> My own result publishing tried

the same trick, and I then tried adding

                          >> a class to each<tr> to

achieve the same thing. Such a
proliferation of

                          >> class tags makes the HTML much

longer,

                          >>

                          >> Its not exactly the end of the

world in coding world - we should be

                          >> worrying about getting the right

output then reducing the file size. But

                          >> in my example above class names

could be shortened if need be to rL, rO,

                          >> rE, p if you wanted...

                          >>

                          >> which can be an issue when

publishing to, say, a phone,

                          >>

                          >> Getting a results page that

views/navigates well on a phone would be a

                          >> priority over speed of download.

                          >>

                          >>

                          >>

                          >>

                          >>

                          >>

                          >

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