Checked the internal and external and found I had modified my template to test something for someone and forgotten to put it back which is why they were different… With the correct template Internal and external are the same.
So you should be seeing OK results if you are using the SWHelper.exe version 1.9.1
Thanks for all your help with this. The PY modifications certainly look better with version 1.9.1 of swhelper.exe. As I had updated to the latest Sailwave on Thursday (V2-25-11), I assumed that it would all be up-to-date.
Any suggestions you can give to help me get more of an improvement will be much appreciated.
I had seen and used the r keyboard shortcut to display the rating values. It would be good to get your opinion on my set-up… Please find attached the blw file.
I was a but confused by some of the adjustments, particularly:
Vareo 516 Rating increased, despite winning every race he has entered!
I think I have now managed to set up the Aliases and the NCH scoring for one of the fleets as I wanted. The rating adjustment seems to be doing something to the results, I will have to workout if it is what we want by testing on some past series files I have.
Unfortunately I have not yet been able to set up our club’s Personal Handicap system for some of our club dinghy racing… When I asked about this before Christmas, it was suggested I use the NHC system on top of the RYA PY numbers.
I have also seen mention of “dual scoring” using aliases. I have not worked out how these work. Before I try, Is it possible to “dual score” with a locally modified RYA PY Ratings file and NHC modified ratings?
I think I will need a guide on setting up the dual scoring if this is possible…
Thanks in advance,
Mark Warren…
From:sailwave@yahoogroups.com <sailwave@yahoogroups…com> Sent: 04 February 2019 09:26 To: sailwave@yahoogroups…com Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC scoring
This has some documentation and also a link to the RYA page with the description of the NHC which contains how it is calculated.
*So, we have five monthly series of four weekly races each. I set the first one to NHC (internal), set up a column for new rating, and then rescored. There were values in the new rating column, which I guess might be the end result after rescoring the four races. If I print each race, we get a succession of rating changes, but the new rating column stays the same, of course. *
The New rating is always the rating that is to be used for the next race.
If you want to see and or print the ratings to see how they change race by race press F6 then r and they are all displayed… You can then publish and print these if you like.
There is a sample in the examples you can play with and don’t forget you can dual score so use both your normal and NHC
I assume that to get from the May series to the June series, I must manually enter the final new rating from May into the rating values for June?**
The new rating column at the end of the series then goes into the ratings for Race 1 (Not the rating column - this is the base rating)
Normally the easy way to do this at the end of the series is to copy the file and then delete all races except the blank one at the end (NHC always must have 1 more race than there are races) This then becomes Race 1 of the new series and all the ratings are in there Press F6 and then r to check.
Because you already have results in your new file you will need to enter them into the Race 1 manually this is not as big a job as it sounds if you sort them in a known order and then press F6 r and edit the top one and then you can just go down arrow enter to edit the next one.
If you need any help send me your blw file and I’ll have a look
Is there a paint-by-numbers guide to using the NHC internal system?
I’m back-scoring last seasons results to see what alternatives we might use to our regular PHRF system. So, we have five monthly series of four weekly races each. I set the first one to NHC (internal), set up a column for new rating, and then rescored. There were values in the new rating column, which I guess might be the end result after rescoring the four races. If I print each race, we get a succession of rating changes, but the new rating column stays the same, of course…
I assume that to get from the May series to the June series, I must manually enter the final new rating from May into the rating values for June?
Finally, is there an explanation of how the adjusted TCF is actually calculated?
This should replace the version in C:\Program Files (x86)\Sailwave
This fixes an occasional issue with a difference between the internal and external calculation when using average lap scoring where the time was being rounded differently when the average was exactly on .5
I know how to display the current Race Ratings (F6 r), and realise that this can be Published, but is it possible to add a new column with the Latest Race Rating, so that it can be published automatically with the results displayed as scored points (as we normally do)?
However, Sailwave NHC will do an auto conversion from PY (1000 based) or VYC 100 based ratings
The way it works if the ratings are around the 1 then it assumes it is TCF.
If the ratings are around the 1000 then it assumes PY if they are around 100 then it assumes VYC
It then converts the ratings to TCF to do the calculation and then converts them back at the end
So it’s not going to work automatically in your case but using the external method there is a competitor field new rating which can be populated separately from next rating (realigned) that it will use. In the config worksheet. Normally these are the same but you could easily create a new column in the Main Worksheet with the PHRF rating in it and then change the Config worksheet to point to this new column and you will have PHRF ratings displayed in the NewRating competitor field which you can publish.
This would be very easy to implement if you want to go the full route of converting the ratings using a custom template then this would also be possible but a bit more work.
Let me know if this will work for you and if you need any help
Jon
Jon Eskdale
03333 443377
07530 112233
On Mon, 18 Feb 2019 at 02:36, John Culter jrculter@medi.net [sailwave] <sailwave@yahoogroups…com> wrote:
Jon,
Thanks for your continuing help. Still working on dual NHC and PHRF dual scoring.
The PHRF system around here is time on time, with the TCF = 650/(Rating + 520). For my test data set, I switched the initial PHRF ratings from numbers like 54, 81, 105 to the TCF equivalents: 1.1324, 1.0815 and 1.0400. I set the scoring system to NHC Internal. Then I scored the four race series, and noted the rating changes. I was happy to see the TCFs for the two Farr 30s that win everything move from 1.1324 to 1.167 and 1.170.
It would be more effective for discussion if I were able to present the revised ratings as PHRF numbers instead of TCF. In this case the two ratings move from 54 t0 36 and 37. Back in the day this used to mean “seconds per mile”, and when the local handicappers would consider changing a rating the fights would be furious over 3 seconds. So a drop from 54 to 36 is pretty earth-shaking.
Anyway, with spreadsheets anything is possible, but before I move down that path I wanted to make sure you haven’t already dealt with this. I admit I haven’t explored the NHC External systems, which is maybe where I should look next. I’d appreciate your advice.
Thanks,
jrc
On 2019-02-04 01:26 AM, Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com [sailwave] wrote:
This has some documentation and also a link to the RYA page with the description of the NHC which contains how it is calculated.
So, we have five monthly series of four weekly races each. I set the first one to NHC (internal), set up a column for new rating, and then rescored. There were values in the new rating column, which I guess might be the end result after rescoring the four races. If I print each race, we get a succession of rating changes, but the new rating column stays the same, of course.**
The New rating is always the rating that is to be used for the next race.
If you want to see and or print the ratings to see how they change race by race press F6 then r and they are all displayed. You can then publish and print these if you like…
There is a sample in the examples you can play with and don’t forget you can dual score so use both your normal and NHC
I assume that to get from the May series to the June series, I must manually enter the final new rating from May into the rating values for June?**
The new rating column at the end of the series then goes into the ratings for Race 1 (Not the rating column - this is the base rating)
Normally the easy way to do this at the end of the series is to copy the file and then delete all races except the blank one at the end (NHC always must have 1 more race than there are races) This then becomes Race 1 of the new series and all the ratings are in there Press F6 and then r to check.
Because you already have results in your new file you will need to enter them into the Race 1 manually this is not as big a job as it sounds if you sort them in a known order and then press F6 r and edit the top one and then you can just go down arrow enter to edit the next one.
If you need any help send me your blw file and I’ll have a look
Is there a paint-by-numbers guide to using the NHC internal system?
I’m back-scoring last seasons results to see what alternatives we might use to our regular PHRF system. So, we have five monthly series of four weekly races each. I set the first one to NHC (internal), set up a column for new rating, and then rescored. There were values in the new rating column, which I guess might be the end result after rescoring the four races. If I print each race, we get a succession of rating changes, but the new rating column stays the same, of course.
I assume that to get from the May series to the June series, I must manually enter the final new rating from May into the rating values for June?
Finally, is there an explanation of how the adjusted TCF is actually calculated?
There is a “New Rating” column that can be published just turn it on
This can be published with the Series table or with the SWCList program (installed with Sailwave)
Note this field belongs to the Competitor and does not make sense to publish it with individual races as it is always the rating that will be used for the next unsailed race
There is a “New Rating” column that can be published just turn it on
This can be published with the Series table or with the SWCList program (installed with Sailwave)
Note this field belongs to the Competitor and does not make sense to publish it with individual races as it is always the rating that will be used for the next unsailed race
I have an additional question regarding the Aliasing.
If I have marked all un-sailed competitors as excluded; and then one of those competitors sails; when you enter the result the competitor automatically becomes unexcluded - which is what I expect, and want.
However the competitor’s alias doesn’t. I would have expected the alias to be unexcluded at the same time.
Is this what should happen? or is there a good reason it doesn’t?
Now I know, I will ensure it is done manually, but it would be good if you could add this in a future release – if possible.
There is a “New Rating” column that can be published just turn it on
This can be published with the Series table or with the SWCList program (installed with Sailwave)
Note this field belongs to the Competitor and does not make sense to publish it with individual races as it is always the rating that will be used for the next unsailed race
I know how to display the current Race Ratings (F6 r), and realise that this can be Published, but is it possible to add a new column with the Latest Race Rating, so that it can be published automatically with the results displayed as scored points (as we normally do)?
However, Sailwave NHC will do an auto conversion from PY (1000 based) or VYC 100 based ratings
The way it works if the ratings are around the 1 then it assumes it is TCF.
If the ratings are around the 1000 then it assumes PY if they are around 100 then it assumes VYC
It then converts the ratings to TCF to do the calculation and then converts them back at the end
So it’s not going to work automatically in your case but using the external method there is a competitor field new rating which can be populated separately from next rating (realigned) that it will use. In the config worksheet. Normally these are the same but you could easily create a new column in the Main Worksheet with the PHRF rating in it and then change the Config worksheet to point to this new column and you will have PHRF ratings displayed in the NewRating competitor field which you can publish.
This would be very easy to implement if you want to go the full route of converting the ratings using a custom template then this would also be possible but a bit more work.
Let me know if this will work for you and if you need any help
Jon
Jon Eskdale
03333 443377
07530 112233
On Mon, 18 Feb 2019 at 02:36, John Culter jrculter@medi.net [sailwave] <sailwave@yahoogroups…com> wrote:
Jon,
Thanks for your continuing help. Still working on dual NHC and PHRF dual scoring.
The PHRF system around here is time on time, with the TCF = 650/(Rating + 520). For my test data set, I switched the initial PHRF ratings from numbers like 54, 81, 105 to the TCF equivalents: 1.1324, 1.0815 and 1.0400. I set the scoring system to NHC Internal. Then I scored the four race series, and noted the rating changes. I was happy to see the TCFs for the two Farr 30s that win everything move from 1.1324 to 1.167 and 1.170.
It would be more effective for discussion if I were able to present the revised ratings as PHRF numbers instead of TCF. In this case the two ratings move from 54 t0 36 and 37. Back in the day this used to mean “seconds per mile”, and when the local handicappers would consider changing a rating the fights would be furious over 3 seconds. So a drop from 54 to 36 is pretty earth-shaking.
Anyway, with spreadsheets anything is possible, but before I move down that path I wanted to make sure you haven’t already dealt with this. I admit I haven’t explored the NHC External systems, which is maybe where I should look next. I’d appreciate your advice.
Thanks,
jrc
On 2019-02-04 01:26 AM, Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com [sailwave] wrote:
This has some documentation and also a link to the RYA page with the description of the NHC which contains how it is calculated.
*So, we have five monthly series of four weekly races each. I set the first one to NHC (internal), set up a column for new rating, and then rescored. There were values in the new rating column, which I guess might be the end result after rescoring the four races. If I print each race, we get a succession of rating changes, but the new rating column stays the same, of course. *
The New rating is always the rating that is to be used for the next race.
If you want to see and or print the ratings to see how they change race by race press F6 then r and they are all displayed. You can then publish and print these if you like…
There is a sample in the examples you can play with and don’t forget you can dual score so use both your normal and NHC
I assume that to get from the May series to the June series, I must manually enter the final new rating from May into the rating values for June?**
The new rating column at the end of the series then goes into the ratings for Race 1 (Not the rating column - this is the base rating)
Normally the easy way to do this at the end of the series is to copy the file and then delete all races except the blank one at the end (NHC always must have 1 more race than there are races) This then becomes Race 1 of the new series and all the ratings are in there Press F6 and then r to check.
Because you already have results in your new file you will need to enter them into the Race 1 manually this is not as big a job as it sounds if you sort them in a known order and then press F6 r and edit the top one and then you can just go down arrow enter to edit the next one.
If you need any help send me your blw file and I’ll have a look
Is there a paint-by-numbers guide to using the NHC internal system?
I’m back-scoring last seasons results to see what alternatives we might use to our regular PHRF system. So, we have five monthly series of four weekly races each. I set the first one to NHC (internal), set up a column for new rating, and then rescored. There were values in the new rating column, which I guess might be the end result after rescoring the four races. If I print each race, we get a succession of rating changes, but the new rating column stays the same, of course.
I assume that to get from the May series to the June series, I must manually enter the final new rating from May into the rating values for June?
Finally, is there an explanation of how the adjusted TCF is actually calculated?
Thanks for the quick response. My logic was that if the real competitor sailed, and becomes un-excluded, then that competitor’s alias must have sailed and should mirror the real competitor, and become un-excluded also.
Like I say, now I know, I will ensure to manually un-exclude the Aliases before scoring.
I have an additional question regarding the Aliasing…
If I have marked all un-sailed competitors as excluded; and then one of those competitors sails; when you enter the result the competitor automatically becomes unexcluded - which is what I expect, and want.
However the competitor’s alias doesn’t. I would have expected the alias to be unexcluded at the same time.
Is this what should happen? or is there a good reason it doesn’t?
Now I know, I will ensure it is done manually, but it would be good if you could add this in a future release – if possible.
There is a “New Rating” column that can be published just turn it on
This can be published with the Series table or with the SWCList program (installed with Sailwave)
Note this field belongs to the Competitor and does not make sense to publish it with individual races as it is always the rating that will be used for the next unsailed race
I know how to display the current Race Ratings (F6 r), and realise that this can be Published, but is it possible to add a new column with the Latest Race Rating, so that it can be published automatically with the results displayed as scored points (as we normally do)?
However, Sailwave NHC will do an auto conversion from PY (1000 based) or VYC 100 based ratings
The way it works if the ratings are around the 1 then it assumes it is TCF.
If the ratings are around the 1000 then it assumes PY if they are around 100 then it assumes VYC
It then converts the ratings to TCF to do the calculation and then converts them back at the end
So it’s not going to work automatically in your case but using the external method there is a competitor field new rating which can be populated separately from next rating (realigned) that it will use. In the config worksheet. Normally these are the same but you could easily create a new column in the Main Worksheet with the PHRF rating in it and then change the Config worksheet to point to this new column and you will have PHRF ratings displayed in the NewRating competitor field which you can publish.
This would be very easy to implement if you want to go the full route of converting the ratings using a custom template then this would also be possible but a bit more work.
Let me know if this will work for you and if you need any help
Jon
Jon Eskdale
03333 443377
07530 112233
On Mon, 18 Feb 2019 at 02:36, John Culter jrculter@medi.net [sailwave] <sailwave@yahoogroups…com> wrote:
Jon,
Thanks for your continuing help. Still working on dual NHC and PHRF dual scoring.
The PHRF system around here is time on time, with the TCF = 650/(Rating + 520). For my test data set, I switched the initial PHRF ratings from numbers like 54, 81, 105 to the TCF equivalents: 1.1324, 1.0815 and 1.0400. I set the scoring system to NHC Internal. Then I scored the four race series, and noted the rating changes. I was happy to see the TCFs for the two Farr 30s that win everything move from 1.1324 to 1.167 and 1.170.
It would be more effective for discussion if I were able to present the revised ratings as PHRF numbers instead of TCF. In this case the two ratings move from 54 t0 36 and 37. Back in the day this used to mean “seconds per mile”, and when the local handicappers would consider changing a rating the fights would be furious over 3 seconds. So a drop from 54 to 36 is pretty earth-shaking.
Anyway, with spreadsheets anything is possible, but before I move down that path I wanted to make sure you haven’t already dealt with this. I admit I haven’t explored the NHC External systems, which is maybe where I should look next. I’d appreciate your advice.
Thanks,
jrc
On 2019-02-04 01:26 AM, Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com [sailwave] wrote:
This has some documentation and also a link to the RYA page with the description of the NHC which contains how it is calculated.
*So, we have five monthly series of four weekly races each. I set the first one to NHC (internal), set up a column for new rating, and then rescored. There were values in the new rating column, which I guess might be the end result after rescoring the four races. If I print each race, we get a succession of rating changes, but the new rating column stays the same, of course. *
The New rating is always the rating that is to be used for the next race.
If you want to see and or print the ratings to see how they change race by race press F6 then r and they are all displayed… You can then publish and print these if you like…
There is a sample in the examples you can play with and don’t forget you can dual score so use both your normal and NHC
I assume that to get from the May series to the June series, I must manually enter the final new rating from May into the rating values for June?**
The new rating column at the end of the series then goes into the ratings for Race 1 (Not the rating column - this is the base rating)
Normally the easy way to do this at the end of the series is to copy the file and then delete all races except the blank one at the end (NHC always must have 1 more race than there are races) This then becomes Race 1 of the new series and all the ratings are in there Press F6 and then r to check.
Because you already have results in your new file you will need to enter them into the Race 1 manually this is not as big a job as it sounds if you sort them in a known order and then press F6 r and edit the top one and then you can just go down arrow enter to edit the next one…
If you need any help send me your blw file and I’ll have a look
Is there a paint-by-numbers guide to using the NHC internal system?
I’m back-scoring last seasons results to see what alternatives we might use to our regular PHRF system. So, we have five monthly series of four weekly races each. I set the first one to NHC (internal), set up a column for new rating, and then rescored. There were values in the new rating column, which I guess might be the end result after rescoring the four races. If I print each race, we get a succession of rating changes, but the new rating column stays the same, of course.
I assume that to get from the May series to the June series, I must manually enter the final new rating from May into the rating values for June?
Finally, is there an explanation of how the adjusted TCF is actually calculated?
I would have thought that it should un-exclude all the matching aliases - if the real competitor has sailed, then surely all the aliases, matching the real competitor, have also sailed by definition.
But t maybe I don’t fully understand how they can be used, it just doesn’t work the way I expected (and would have liked).
But that depends upon why they were excluded - There are many reasons for excluding competitors.
Such as producing different sets of results. If you have actively excluded them Sailwave can’t know which ones it should include automatically. It is far safer to allow the scorer to decide.
Please can you confirm that there has been no regression issue going from SWHelper.exe 1.9.1 to 1.9.3.
I was using V2.25.11 of SailWave with V1.9.3 of the SWhelper.exe, and have just updated to V2.28.1 (which included V1.9.3 of SWHelper.exe.) to try and solve a possible problem.
The issue I had today when I scored one of our series was that a Laser 1 beat an Aero 7 on the water, BUT the Laser 1 PY increased by 1 and the Aero 7 stayed the same. Surely this is not right. It feels like the problem I had before I switched to 1.9.1 of SWHelper.exe.
Thanks for all your help with this. The PY modifications certainly look better with version 1.9.1 of swhelper.exe. As I had updated to the latest Sailwave on Thursday (V2-25-11), I assumed that it would all be up-to-date.
Any suggestions you can give to help me get more of an improvement will be much appreciated.
I had seen and used the r keyboard shortcut to display the rating values. It would be good to get your opinion on my set-up… Please find attached the blw file.
I was a but confused by some of the adjustments, particularly:
Vareo 516 Rating increased, despite winning every race he has entered!
I think I have now managed to set up the Aliases and the NCH scoring for one of the fleets as I wanted. The rating adjustment seems to be doing something to the results, I will have to workout if it is what we want by testing on some past series files I have.
Unfortunately I have not yet been able to set up our club’s Personal Handicap system for some of our club dinghy racing. When I asked about this before Christmas, it was suggested I use the NHC system on top of the RYA PY numbers.
I have also seen mention of “dual scoring” using aliases. I have not worked out how these work. Before I try, Is it possible to “dual score” with a locally modified RYA PY Ratings file and NHC modified ratings?
I think I will need a guide on setting up the dual scoring if this is possible.
Thanks in advance,
Mark Warren…
From:sailwave@yahoogroups.com <sailwave@yahoogroups…com> Sent: 04 February 2019 09:26 To: sailwave@yahoogroups…com Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC scoring
This has some documentation and also a link to the RYA page with the description of the NHC which contains how it is calculated.
*So, we have five monthly series of four weekly races each. I set the first one to NHC (internal), set up a column for new rating, and then rescored. There were values in the new rating column, which I guess might be the end result after rescoring the four races. If I print each race, we get a succession of rating changes, but the new rating column stays the same, of course. *
The New rating is always the rating that is to be used for the next race.
If you want to see and or print the ratings to see how they change race by race press F6 then r and they are all displayed… You can then publish and print these if you like.
There is a sample in the examples you can play with and don’t forget you can dual score so use both your normal and NHC
I assume that to get from the May series to the June series, I must manually enter the final new rating from May into the rating values for June?**
The new rating column at the end of the series then goes into the ratings for Race 1 (Not the rating column - this is the base rating)
Normally the easy way to do this at the end of the series is to copy the file and then delete all races except the blank one at the end (NHC always must have 1 more race than there are races) This then becomes Race 1 of the new series and all the ratings are in there Press F6 and then r to check.
Because you already have results in your new file you will need to enter them into the Race 1 manually this is not as big a job as it sounds if you sort them in a known order and then press F6 r and edit the top one and then you can just go down arrow enter to edit the next one.
If you need any help send me your blw file and I’ll have a look
Is there a paint-by-numbers guide to using the NHC internal system?
I’m back-scoring last seasons results to see what alternatives we might use to our regular PHRF system. So, we have five monthly series of four weekly races each. I set the first one to NHC (internal), set up a column for new rating, and then rescored. There were values in the new rating column, which I guess might be the end result after rescoring the four races. If I print each race, we get a succession of rating changes, but the new rating column stays the same, of course…
I assume that to get from the May series to the June series, I must manually enter the final new rating from May into the rating values for June?
Finally, is there an explanation of how the adjusted TCF is actually calculated?
I’m not aware of any issues with 1.9.3 other than when using internal mode with PY ratings it doesn’t write the New rating column but this is a new feature
If you could send me the blw pointing out which ones you would like me to check I’ll have a look
My main concern is the race from last weekend (R6) where the Laser 184319 beat the Aero 7, 2108, on the water and yet the PY went up, only by 1, but surely that is not correct. The Aero 7 stayed the same, which is probably okay.
In fact the Lasser’s PY dropped after the first win, but then hasn’t dropped for any subsequent win.
It reminded me of the symptom when I was using SWHelper 1.9.0, and was fixed by updating to 1.9.1.
I’m not aware of any issues with 1.9.3 other than when using internal mode with PY ratings it doesn’t write the New rating column but this is a new feature
If you could send me the blw pointing out which ones you would like me to check I’ll have a look
Please can you confirm that there has been no regression issue going from SWHelper.exe 1.9.1 to 1.9.3.
I was using V2.25.11 of SailWave with V1.9.3 of the SWhelper.exe, and have just updated to V2.28.1 (which included V1.9.3 of SWHelper.exe…) to try and solve a possible problem.
The issue I had today when I scored one of our series was that a Laser 1 beat an Aero 7 on the water, BUT the Laser 1 PY increased by 1 and the Aero 7 stayed the same. Surely this is not right. It feels like the problem I had before I switched to 1.9.1 of SWHelper.exe.
Thanks for all your help with this. The PY modifications certainly look better with version 1.9.1 of swhelper.exe. As I had updated to the latest Sailwave on Thursday (V2-25-11), I assumed that it would all be up-to-date.
Any suggestions you can give to help me get more of an improvement will be much appreciated.
I had seen and used the r keyboard shortcut to display the rating values. It would be good to get your opinion on my set-up… Please find attached the blw file.
I was a but confused by some of the adjustments, particularly:
Vareo 516 Rating increased, despite winning every race he has entered!
I think I have now managed to set up the Aliases and the NCH scoring for one of the fleets as I wanted. The rating adjustment seems to be doing something to the results, I will have to workout if it is what we want by testing on some past series files I have.
Unfortunately I have not yet been able to set up our club’s Personal Handicap system for some of our club dinghy racing. When I asked about this before Christmas, it was suggested I use the NHC system on top of the RYA PY numbers.
I have also seen mention of “dual scoring” using aliases. I have not worked out how these work. Before I try, Is it possible to “dual score” with a locally modified RYA PY Ratings file and NHC modified ratings?
I think I will need a guide on setting up the dual scoring if this is possible…
Thanks in advance,
Mark Warren…
From:sailwave@yahoogroups.com <sailwave@yahoogroups…com> Sent: 04 February 2019 09:26 To: sailwave@yahoogroups…com Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC scoring
This has some documentation and also a link to the RYA page with the description of the NHC which contains how it is calculated.
*So, we have five monthly series of four weekly races each. I set the first one to NHC (internal), set up a column for new rating, and then rescored. There were values in the new rating column, which I guess might be the end result after rescoring the four races. If I print each race, we get a succession of rating changes, but the new rating column stays the same, of course. *
The New rating is always the rating that is to be used for the next race.
If you want to see and or print the ratings to see how they change race by race press F6 then r and they are all displayed… You can then publish and print these if you like.
There is a sample in the examples you can play with and don’t forget you can dual score so use both your normal and NHC
I assume that to get from the May series to the June series, I must manually enter the final new rating from May into the rating values for June?**
The new rating column at the end of the series then goes into the ratings for Race 1 (Not the rating column - this is the base rating)
Normally the easy way to do this at the end of the series is to copy the file and then delete all races except the blank one at the end (NHC always must have 1 more race than there are races) This then becomes Race 1 of the new series and all the ratings are in there Press F6 and then r to check.
Because you already have results in your new file you will need to enter them into the Race 1 manually this is not as big a job as it sounds if you sort them in a known order and then press F6 r and edit the top one and then you can just go down arrow enter to edit the next one.
If you need any help send me your blw file and I’ll have a look
Is there a paint-by-numbers guide to using the NHC internal system?
I’m back-scoring last seasons results to see what alternatives we might use to our regular PHRF system. So, we have five monthly series of four weekly races each. I set the first one to NHC (internal), set up a column for new rating, and then rescored. There were values in the new rating column, which I guess might be the end result after rescoring the four races. If I print each race, we get a succession of rating changes, but the new rating column stays the same, of course…
I assume that to get from the May series to the June series, I must manually enter the final new rating from May into the rating values for June?
Finally, is there an explanation of how the adjusted TCF is actually calculated?
jon just gave you an answer but some extra info.
PHRF ratings are based on a theoretical PHRF fleet with a median boat . The A value in the TOT equation is the B value plus this median boat.
When NHC computes out the results are dependant on the actual boats racing; which may or may correspond to the PHRF median.
.
Translation: You need to look at all the back PHRF ratings not just one, and then decide the needed offset to get back to “true” PHRF ratings
Thanks for your continuing help. Still working on dual NHC and PHRF
dual scoring.
The PHRF system around here is time on time, with the TCF =
650/(Rating + 520). For my test data set, I switched the initial
PHRF ratings from numbers like 54, 81, 105 to the TCF equivalents:
1.1324, 1.0815 and 1.0400. I set the scoring system to NHC
Internal. Then I scored the four race series, and noted the rating
changes. I was happy to see the TCFs for the two Farr 30s that win
everything move from 1.1324 to 1.167 and 1.170.
It would be more effective for discussion if I were able to present
the revised ratings as PHRF numbers instead of TCF. In this case
the two ratings move from 54 t0 36 and 37. Back in the day this
used to mean “seconds per mile”, and when the local handicappers
would consider changing a rating the fights would be furious over 3
seconds. So a drop from 54 to 36 is pretty earth-shaking.
Anyway, with spreadsheets anything is possible, but before I move
down that path I wanted to make sure you haven’t already dealt with
this. I admit I haven’t explored the NHC External systems, which is
maybe where I should look next. I’d appreciate your advice.
Thanks,
jrc
On 2019-02-04 01:26 AM, Jon Eskdale > jon@sailwave.com [sailwave] wrote:
This has some documentation and also a link to the RYA page
with the description of the NHC which contains how it is
calculated.
So,
we have five monthly series of four weekly races
each. I set the first one to NHC (internal), set up a
column for new rating, and then rescored. There were
values in the new rating column, which I guess might
be the end result after rescoring the four races. If
I print each race, we get a succession of rating
changes, but the new rating column stays the same, of
course.***
The New rating is always the rating that is to be used for the
next race.
If you want to see and or print the ratings to see how they
change race by race press F6 then r and they are all
displayed. You can then publish and print these if you like.
There is a sample in the examples you can play with and
don’t forget you can dual score so use both your normal and
NHC
* I
assume that to get from the May series to the June
series, I must manually enter the final new rating
from May into the rating values for June? *
The new rating column at the end of the series then goes into
the ratings for Race 1 (Not the rating column - this is
the base rating)
Normally the easy way to do this at the end of the series
is to copy the file and then delete all races except the blank
one at the end (NHC always must have 1 more race than there
are races) This then becomes Race 1 of the new series and all
the ratings are in there Press F6 and then r to check.
Because you already have results in your new file you will
need to enter them into the Race 1 manually this is not as big
a job as it sounds if you sort them in a known order and then
press F6 r and edit the top one and then you can just go down
arrow enter to edit the next one.
If you need any help send me your blw file and I'll have a
look
Jon
Jon Eskdale
03333 443377
07530 112233
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 at 07:03, > > John Culter jrculter@medi.net [sailwave] <sailwave@yahoogroups.com > > > wrote:
Hi Jon,
Is there a paint-by-numbers guide to using the NHC
internal system?
I'm back-scoring last seasons results to see what
alternatives we might use to our regular PHRF
system. So, we have five monthly series of four
weekly races each. I set the first one to NHC
(internal), set up a column for new rating, and then
rescored. There were values in the new rating
column, which I guess might be the end result after
rescoring the four races. If I print each race, we
get a succession of rating changes, but the new
rating column stays the same, of course.
I assume that to get from the May series to the June
series, I must manually enter the final new rating
from May into the rating values for June?
Finally, is there an explanation of how the adjusted
Hi Mark,
Hi Mark,