I am working on an add-on scoring program for the World Youth Sailing Championship that will be held in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia this summer. We plan to use Sailwave to handle the majority of the scoring for the championship. However, we need to compute overall scores for each country. The overall score is computed using a formula which is based on the scores from each of the classes in which the country competes.
My original design was to use the export facility of Sailwave to get the results from each race and import them into the overall scoring program. However, this meant that the scores for the various scoring codes like ZFP or RDG would be computed in two places. Once in Sailwave to compute the Series scores and then again in the Overall program to compute the overall scores. This seems to me to be a poor design since there is too much possibility for error in that the two programs might compute a score differently. Also I would be duplicating a lot of the work that has already gone into Sailwave to ensure that these calculations are done correctly.
As a result of these considerations I have been looking into the possibility of getting the input for the Overall program directly from the Sailwave (.blw) files. By doing this I can get the final calculated race points (it appears to be in the “rpts” records) and not have to recompute them. Another possible benefit is that I wouldn’t have to store the results in a separate file. I could just get the information directly from the Sailwave files each time I computed the overall scores. This would remove another potential source for error (ie. if you store the results in 2 separate files the files could get out of date with each other). The main negative to this approach is that I would be dependant on the internal file format of Sailwave files.
Since I started investigating this I downloaded Beta 4 and saw that I can now export the calculated race points using the new facility to format scoring codes. This will solve my original problem but I am still concerned that there is too much possibility for error exporting and importing the results. Realize that we plan to recompute the overall scores every time a score is changed since this is the information that the Press is most interested in. This means that we will be doing this a lot, not just at the end of the championship.
With that long introduction I can finally get around to my questions:
-
Is it better to use the externally documented facility (ie. export) to get the results from Sailwave or to read them directly from the Sailwave files?
-
How subject to change are the Sailwave file formats?
-
Is there a better way to interface with Sailwave? Is there any interest in defining a more general facility?
-
Has anyone else done something similar? What approach did you use?
Thanks
Eric Mackie
Lunenburg Yacht Club
Nova Scotia, Canada
At Burghfield SC we run 4 series throughout the year. It would be nice if we could somehow combine the results over the 4 series to produce annual fleet champions. If this could go on the wish list then maybe Eric’s problem could be solved (?)
Simon
···
----- Original Message -----
From:
WATPRO Computer Systems
To: Sailwave Group
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:07 PM
Subject: [sailwave] Add-on Scoring Program
I am working on an add-on scoring program for the World Youth Sailing Championship that will be held in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia this summer. We plan to use Sailwave to handle the majority of the scoring for the championship. However, we need to compute overall scores for each country. The overall score is computed using a formula which is based on the scores from each of the classes in which the country competes.
My original design was to use the export facility of Sailwave to get the results from each race and import them into the overall scoring program. However, this meant that the scores for the various scoring codes like ZFP or RDG would be computed in two places. Once in Sailwave to compute the Series scores and then again in the Overall program to compute the overall scores. This seems to me to be a poor design since there is too much possibility for error in that the two programs might compute a score differently. Also I would be duplicating a lot of the work that has already gone into Sailwave to ensure that these calculations are done correctly.
As a result of these considerations I have been looking into the possibility of getting the input for the Overall program directly from the Sailwave (.blw) files. By doing this I can get the final calculated race points (it appears to be in the “rpts” records) and not have to recompute them. Another possible benefit is that I wouldn’t have to store the results in a separate file. I could just get the information directly from the Sailwave files each time I computed the overall scores. This would remove another potential source for error (ie. if you store the results in 2 separate files the files could get out of date with each other). The main negative to this approach is that I would be dependant on the internal file format of Sailwave files.
Since I started investigating this I downloaded Beta 4 and saw that I can now export the calculated race points using the new facility to format scoring codes. This will solve my original problem but I am still concerned that there is too much possibility for error exporting and importing the results. Realize that we plan to recompute the overall scores every time a score is changed since this is the information that the Press is most interested in. This means that we will be doing this a lot, not just at the end of the championship.
With that long introduction I can finally get around to my questions:
- Is it better to use the externally documented facility (ie. export) to get the results from Sailwave or to read them directly from the Sailwave files?
- How subject to change are the Sailwave file formats?
- Is there a better way to interface with Sailwave? Is there any interest in defining a more general facility?
- Has anyone else done something similar? What approach did you use?
Thanks
Eric Mackie
Lunenburg Yacht Club
Nova Scotia, Canada
Hi Simon,
To make sense (of discards etc) I think the raw data would have to be merged and rescored, rather than combine the points themselves; is this what you had in mind? It’s not that hard to do actually - the infrastructure is there with the competitor import stuff. The merged series could have a discard profile of it’s own etc.
Regards,
Colin
···
-----Original Message-----
From: SimonSmith [mailto:simon@smith.net]
Sent: 16 January 2002 09:12
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Add-on Scoring Program
At Burghfield SC we run 4 series throughout the year. It would be nice if we could somehow combine the results over the 4 series to produce annual fleet champions. If this could go on the wish list then maybe Eric’s problem could be solved (?)
Simon
----- Original Message -----
From:
WATPRO Computer Systems
To: Sailwave Group
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:07 PM
Subject: [sailwave] Add-on Scoring Program
I am working on an add-on scoring program for the World Youth Sailing Championship that will be held in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia this summer. We plan to use Sailwave to handle the majority of the scoring for the championship. However, we need to compute overall scores for each country. The overall score is computed using a formula which is based on the scores from each of the classes in which the country competes.
My original design was to use the export facility of Sailwave to get the results from each race and import them into the overall scoring program. However, this meant that the scores for the various scoring codes like ZFP or RDG would be computed in two places. Once in Sailwave to compute the Series scores and then again in the Overall program to compute the overall scores. This seems to me to be a poor design since there is too much possibility for error in that the two programs might compute a score differently. Also I would be duplicating a lot of the work that has already gone into Sailwave to ensure that these calculations are done correctly.
As a result of these considerations I have been looking into the possibility of getting the input for the Overall program directly from the Sailwave (.blw) files. By doing this I can get the final calculated race points (it appears to be in the “rpts” records) and not have to recompute them. Another possible benefit is that I wouldn’t have to store the results in a separate file. I could just get the information directly from the Sailwave files each time I computed the overall scores. This would remove another potential source for error (ie. if you store the results in 2 separate files the files could get out of date with each other). The main negative to this approach is that I would be dependant on the internal file format of Sailwave files.
Since I started investigating this I downloaded Beta 4 and saw that I can now export the calculated race points using the new facility to format scoring codes. This will solve my original problem but I am still concerned that there is too much possibility for error exporting and importing the results. Realize that we plan to recompute the overall scores every time a score is changed since this is the information that the Press is most interested in. This means that we will be doing this a lot, not just at the end of the championship.
With that long introduction I can finally get around to my questions:
- Is it better to use the externally documented facility (ie. export) to get the results from Sailwave or to read them directly from the Sailwave files?
- How subject to change are the Sailwave file formats?
- Is there a better way to interface with Sailwave? Is there any interest in defining a more general facility?
- Has anyone else done something similar? What approach did you use?
Thanks
Eric Mackie
Lunenburg Yacht Club
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Hi Eric,
We plan to use Sailwave to handle the majority of the scoring for the
championship. <
Good choice... 
...
1. Is it better to use the externally documented facility (ie. export) to
get the results from Sailwave or to read them directly from the Sailwave
files?<
The direct route is not that safe - for example I'm considering changing to
HTML/XML at some stage.
2. How subject to change are the Sailwave file formats?<
See above!
3. Is there a better way to interface with Sailwave? Is there any interest
in defining a more general facility?<
Not at present but I could knock up a DDE interface very quickly if that'd
help - i.e. if your other program had the capabilities to create a DDE
connection and request DDE data (like Excel/Word macros or VB can for
example). You'd just have to ensure that Sailwave was running with the
series loaded at the time. If that'd help, tell me the data you're
immediately interested in, and we can go from there... It's something I've
been meaning to get around to for a while...
Regards,
Colin
···
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FWIW: Depending on the timing of your switch to XML, it could make the
issue very easy as there are ADO.NET components to access data in that
format. Another option other than DDE (which tends to be unstable and
slow) would be to expose some OLE functions to provide the data.
-Bill Hunt
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 5:33 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Add-on Scoring Program
Hi Eric,
We plan to use Sailwave to handle the majority of the scoring for the
championship. <
Good choice...
...
1. Is it better to use the externally documented facility (ie. export)
to
get the results from Sailwave or to read them directly from the Sailwave
files?<
The direct route is not that safe - for example I'm considering changing
to
HTML/XML at some stage.
2. How subject to change are the Sailwave file formats?<
See above!
3. Is there a better way to interface with Sailwave? Is there any
interest
in defining a more general facility?<
Not at present but I could knock up a DDE interface very quickly if
that'd
help - i.e. if your other program had the capabilities to create a DDE
connection and request DDE data (like Excel/Word macros or VB can for
example). You'd just have to ensure that Sailwave was running with the
series loaded at the time. If that'd help, tell me the data you're
immediately interested in, and we can go from there... It's something
I've
been meaning to get around to for a while...
Regards,
Colin
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Colin,
I am using Visual Basic so any form of communication that is supported by VB
will work for me. DDE should work fine for this application, since it should
be fairly straight forward, or OLE would work as well. What is Sailwave
written in? Is DDE the easiest for you to work with?
The data that I need is the class, nation (this is being used rather than
sail numbers to identify the competitors), race position, race code, final
race points, and an indication of if the result has been discarded.
>3. Is there a better way to interface with Sailwave? Is there any
interest
in defining a more general facility?<
Not at present but I could knock up a DDE interface very quickly if that'd
help - i.e. if your other program had the capabilities to create a DDE
connection and request DDE data (like Excel/Word macros or VB can for
example). You'd just have to ensure that Sailwave was running with the
series loaded at the time. If that'd help, tell me the data you're
immediately interested in, and we can go from there... It's something
I've
been meaning to get around to for a while...
Thanks
Eric
Hi Eric,
Sailwave is written in Clarion (www.softvelocity.com) - it produces fast and
small executables but it's a bit more primitive than VB when it comes to
things like this OLE/COM. My goal is a COM interface with the Sailwave
object model available in VB (etc) but a DDE interface is a quick'n'dirty
route to that ultimate end. Watch this space...
Presumably Nationality is always unique in your context...?
As Simon mentioned, the other possibility is generalising your requirements
into something potentially useful to everybody. If you're interested in
this approach, can you send me the spec of the secondary scoring
requirements. My email address is colin@sailwave.com.
Regards,
Colin
···
-----Original Message-----
From: WATPRO Computer Systems [mailto:watpro@bwr.eastlink.ca]
Sent: 17 January 2002 14:11
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Add-on Scoring Program
Colin,
I am using Visual Basic so any form of communication that is supported by VB
will work for me. DDE should work fine for this application, since it should
be fairly straight forward, or OLE would work as well. What is Sailwave
written in? Is DDE the easiest for you to work with?
The data that I need is the class, nation (this is being used rather than
sail numbers to identify the competitors), race position, race code, final
race points, and an indication of if the result has been discarded.
>3. Is there a better way to interface with Sailwave? Is there any
interest
in defining a more general facility?<
Not at present but I could knock up a DDE interface very quickly if that'd
help - i.e. if your other program had the capabilities to create a DDE
connection and request DDE data (like Excel/Word macros or VB can for
example). You'd just have to ensure that Sailwave was running with the
series loaded at the time. If that'd help, tell me the data you're
immediately interested in, and we can go from there... It's something
I've
been meaning to get around to for a while...
Thanks
Eric
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Thanks Bill. I'm not fan of native DDE either to be honest, but it's a
practical way forward with limited time. Ultimate aim is COM object and
object model. CJ
···
-----Original Message-----
From: James W. Hunt [mailto:jwhunt3@maine.rr.com]
Sent: 16 January 2002 22:44
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Add-on Scoring Program
FWIW: Depending on the timing of your switch to XML, it could make the
issue very easy as there are ADO.NET components to access data in that
format. Another option other than DDE (which tends to be unstable and
slow) would be to expose some OLE functions to provide the data.
-Bill Hunt
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 5:33 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Add-on Scoring Program
Hi Eric,
We plan to use Sailwave to handle the majority of the scoring for the
championship. <
Good choice...
...
1. Is it better to use the externally documented facility (ie. export)
to
get the results from Sailwave or to read them directly from the Sailwave
files?<
The direct route is not that safe - for example I'm considering changing
to
HTML/XML at some stage.
2. How subject to change are the Sailwave file formats?<
See above!
3. Is there a better way to interface with Sailwave? Is there any
interest
in defining a more general facility?<
Not at present but I could knock up a DDE interface very quickly if
that'd
help - i.e. if your other program had the capabilities to create a DDE
connection and request DDE data (like Excel/Word macros or VB can for
example). You'd just have to ensure that Sailwave was running with the
series loaded at the time. If that'd help, tell me the data you're
immediately interested in, and we can go from there... It's something
I've
been meaning to get around to for a while...
Regards,
Colin
---
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I think on the whole my preference would be to see XML fairly high on
the list as an exchange/output format... It has the advantage too
that it ought not to be immensely different from generating the http
output, just a question of working out the schema - quite possibly
for now a fairly straightforward DTD would be enough...
Jim C
Thanks Jim, I hope they don't delete 8.2 - I think it's a great rule! - and
99% of the time avoids a completely ad-hoc/arbitrary resolution based on the
last race. e.g.
B: 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1
A beat B 8 times out of 9, but without rule 8.2, boat B would beat boat A...
surely that doesn't make sense? The alternative tweak to 8.2 would be far
preferable IMO; it's fairly easy to implement as far as I can tell from the
details I have.
CJ
···
A: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Champ [mailto:jimc@hjones.cix.co.uk]
Sent: 17 January 2002 22:09
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] > ISAF is proposing a possible change to rule A8
From rec boats.racing...
ATTN: Scoring Programmers
ISAF is proposing a possible change to rule A8 that you should be
aware of. In its November meetings, the ISAF Council directed the ISAF
Racing Rules Committee to propose a change to rule A8.2 for the May2-5
Mid-Year 2002 Meeting. It is expected that this change would take
effect immediately upon approval by the ISAF Council (in other words,
on May 5th or very soon thereafter).
If you mantain a scoring program I think you should know about this
now so that you can adequately plan how to modify your software when
the time comes. The preferred change will be to simply delete rule
A8.2. However, other modifications of rule A8.2 are possible. No final
decision has been made or will be made before the May 2-5 Mid-Year
2002 Meeting.
My note is completely unofficial. The official ISAF Council minutes
from the November 2001 refer to the issue on page 54 (though you might
not understand the issue from the decscription there). I have
excerpted the relevant language.
++++++++++++++++ ISAF Council Minutes ++++++++++++++++++
(vi) Strategic Withdrawal
In discussion during the Council meeting, concern was expressed that
until a solution was proposed, the RRS still permit strategic
withdrawal, and Council emphasised the importance of urgently making
the necessary changes to the RRS. The Racing Rules Committee was
charged to propose a solution for the 2002 Mid-Year Meeting.
It was noted that until such a change to the RRS has been proposed and
accepted by Council at the 2002 Mid-Year Meeting, that for ISAF
Events, ISAF can delete RRS A8.2 and state as such in the Sailing
Instructions.
Council Decision
Council agreed that the Racing Rules Committee put forward an urgent
submission to the 2002 Mid-Year Meeting of Council to remove the
possibility of strategic withdrawal from the RRS and that such a
change would take effect immediately approved. ++++++++++++++++++++++
End +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Art Engel
e-mail: artengel123 (at) earthlink.net
Web: http://www.racingrules.org
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