We sail a number of series each year and at the end of the year combine these to produce an overall aggregate result. Using Sailwave to merge series files we’ve come across a couple of hurdles.
If there are competitors with the EXCLUDED flag set the merge does not merge all boats and the outcome varies depending on the order of merging files! That can (I think) be resolved by deleting all excluded competitors.
To encourage members to sail other boats during the year or within a series without penalty in the overall aggregate result we want to merge on helm name or helm and crew names. Two problems or perhaps “how to” solutions needed:
When merging series it is likely that an individual will have sailed more than one boat in a particular series. The merge seems to assume only one match is possible and does not combine subsequent matches in the “merged from” series.
If the merged boats are different classes any re-score will use the “Default” rating or the “Race” rating if copied during the merge. The “Default” rating will not be the correct one for some of the boats being merged.
Solutions?
Combine results within a single series based on say helm name (or any other combination of parameters alowed) and retain the original ratings so that a re-score gives the same original result for each race?
Could a process be developed that sets the “Race rating” to the boat’s “Default rating” unless it is already set to something else? Perhaps a batch process for the whole blw file?
I use the merge extensively myself and don’t experience any issues.
First though which version of Sailwave are you using? as there have been improvements to the merge in recent versions.
When you say If there are competitors with the EXCLUDED flag set the merge does not merge all boats and the outcome varies depending on the order of merging files! could you explain this, for myself it works perfectly. If there are competitors marked as excluded in the file you wish to merge into the series, then it will ignore them, which seems logical to me. I can’t think why you would mark them as excluded and want to then merge them in.
You don’t say which options you have selected for the merge but Sailwave does give you a lot of flexibility
When you say subsequent matches are not made can you expand please. Because if a competitor does not match they will be added, so if a competitor is sailing different boats presumably with a different Sail number or division then it will treat them as two competitors and merge if they match. I have this situation regularly using division and it works fine.
As for ratings please explain how you would like it to work.
A boats rating is always its specified default rating unless the race rating has been changed or the flag on a previous rating has been set to be use this rating until it is changed specifically by a new race rating
We sail a number of series each year and at the end of the year combine these to produce an overall aggregate result. Using Sailwave to merge series files we’ve come across a couple of hurdles.
If there are competitors with the EXCLUDED flag set the merge does not merge all boats and the outcome varies depending on the order of merging files! That can (I think) be resolved by deleting all excluded competitors.
To encourage members to sail other boats during the year or within a series without penalty in the overall aggregate result we want to merge on helm name or helm and crew names. Two problems or perhaps “how to” solutions needed:
When merging series it is likely that an individual will have sailed more than one boat in a particular series. The merge seems to assume only one match is possible and does not combine subsequent matches in the “merged from” series.
If the merged boats are different classes any re-score will use the “Default” rating or the “Race” rating if copied during the merge. The “Default” rating will not be the correct one for some of the boats being merged.
Solutions?
Combine results within a single series based on say helm name (or any other combination of parameters alowed) and retain the original ratings so that a re-score gives the same original result for each race?
Could a process be developed that sets the “Race rating” to the boat’s “Default rating” unless it is already set to something else? Perhaps a batch process for the whole blw file?
could you please contact barts bash team and sort out the barts bash race entry system… They have created a totally nuts web based race results system just for their event. Which means multiple manual entry.
As someone who hates entering data by hand into desparate systems I think it would be better to get thsm to change to sail wave. For you it may mean that more clubs move over to sail wave world wide.
I did try this year and offered to customise the software for the event free of charge. But it got turned down on the grounds that they get paid to write the software. And as I understand the people involved wanted the job and the income from it. Which left me a bit unimpressed with the organisation as I had originally thought it was a voluntary charity but as I understand the staff involved are paid for their work. I’m sure overall there is a good benefit to the sailing community.
could you please contact barts bash team and sort out the barts bash race entry system… They have created a totally nuts web based race results system just for their event. Which means multiple manual entry.
As someone who hates entering data by hand into desparate systems I think it would be better to get thsm to change to sail wave. For you it may mean that more clubs move over to sail wave world wide.
Both Jon & I have spoken in the past to the Bast's Bash team
about closer integration with Sailwave due to others wanting to
produce results for their event on the same day as the event, rather
than having to wait for the overall input of results from all
events.
Sailwave has offered but so far Barts Bash have been polite but said
no thank you. So far Barts Bash organisation have decided not to do
any better integration with Sailwave or, to the best of my
knowledge, any other race results program.
Pressure from clubs hosting Barts Bash events would in my view be
you please contact barts bash team and sort out
the barts bash race entry system… They have
created a totally nuts web based race results
system just for their event. Which means
multiple manual entry.
As
someone who hates entering data by hand into
desparate systems I think it would be better to
get thsm to change to sail wave. For you it may
mean that more clubs move over to sail wave
world wide.
I have spoken to them about several issues with the way they run, market, their event and data.
I have made it clear to them that Tcsc will be removing barts bash from its 2016 provisional calendar. we have better things to do with our time than being their mechanical turks. They are proving to require too much bespoke manual effort before and after the event.
We will concentrate on our primary charities RNLI and Macmillan.
you please contact barts bash team and sort out
the barts bash race entry system… They have
created a totally nuts web based race results
system just for their event. Which means
multiple manual entry.
As
someone who hates entering data by hand into
desparate systems I think it would be better to
get thsm to change to sail wave. For you it may
mean that more clubs move over to sail wave
world wide.
As others have said, we wanted to produce our
results by the end of the day. I used sailwave to do that, and
produced our local results within two hours of the finish. I then
created a csv file from sailwave and added the other fields that I
found the BB system was looking for. Then I found I couldn’t
upload that directly to their database. At that point, with 130+
results to manually enter, and where most of the boats hadn’t been
pre-registered, I emailed Tim at BB. He explained that they had
major problems last year with people trying to upload the data,
having changed the field headings, so they wouldn’t allow it this
year. However, he did take my csv file and had it uploaded for me.
In the event we were the second largest fleet taking part, and we
will probably run a similar event next year, as it was very
popular with our club members. Whether we submit the results to
the BB organisation will depend on whether they make it more
straightforward. Whatever system they use must have a process by
which the results can be uploaded directly, and must not assume
all participants have pre-registered.
you please contact barts bash team and sort out the
barts bash race entry system… They have created a
totally nuts web based race results system just for
their event. Which means multiple manual entry.
As
someone who hates entering data by hand into desparate
systems I think it would be better to get thsm to change
to sail wave. For you it may mean that more clubs move
over to sail wave world wide.
To explain the use of the excluded flag. We create a “template” blw file in the spring every year containing all the boats that we think will sail in the coming season to speed up data entry for novice Sailwave users and to give some assurance of accurate boat data. This gives a starter file that we then personalise for for each series - series name etc. All boats start out with the excluded flag set and as race results are entered the Sailwave un-sets it for boats that participate and only participants are then included in published results. At the end of each series there will remain some boats with the excluded flag still set and if we were to do nothing more with the resulting blw files that is fine.
Merging.
I’ve used the following settings for two files A and B and merged B into A and then A into B. The combinations result in different numbers of boats.
I then deleted all excluded boats to produce C and D and merged D into C and then C into D. Both combinations have 28 boats.
Rather than send all 8 files to the group I’ll send them to you personally.
I use the merge extensively myself and don’t experience any issues.
First though which version of Sailwave are you using? as there have been improvements to the merge in recent versions.
When you say If there are competitors with the EXCLUDED flag set the merge does not merge all boats and the outcome varies depending on the order of merging files! could you explain this, for myself it works perfectly. If there are competitors marked as excluded in the file you wish to merge into the series, then it will ignore them, which seems logical to me. I can’t think why you would mark them as excluded and want to then merge them in.
You don’t say which options you have selected for the merge but Sailwave does give you a lot of flexibility
When you say subsequent matches are not made can you expand please. Because if a competitor does not match they will be added, so if a competitor is sailing different boats presumably with a different Sail number or division then it will treat them as two competitors and merge if they match. I have this situation regularly using division and it works fine.
As for ratings please explain how you would like it to work.
A boats rating is always its specified default rating unless the race rating has been changed or the flag on a previous rating has been set to be use this rating until it is changed specifically by a new race rating
We sail a number of series each year and at the end of the year combine these to produce an overall aggregate result. Using Sailwave to merge series files we’ve come across a couple of hurdles.
If there are competitors with the EXCLUDED flag set the merge does not merge all boats and the outcome varies depending on the order of merging files! That can (I think) be resolved by deleting all excluded competitors.
To encourage members to sail other boats during the year or within a series without penalty in the overall aggregate result we want to merge on helm name or helm and crew names. Two problems or perhaps “how to” solutions needed:
When merging series it is likely that an individual will have sailed more than one boat in a particular series. The merge seems to assume only one match is possible and does not combine subsequent matches in the “merged from” series.
If the merged boats are different classes any re-score will use the “Default” rating or the “Race” rating if copied during the merge. The “Default” rating will not be the correct one for some of the boats being merged.
Solutions?
Combine results within a single series based on say helm name (or any other combination of parameters alowed) and retain the original ratings so that a re-score gives the same original result for each race?
Could a process be developed that sets the “Race rating” to the boat’s “Default rating” unless it is already set to something else? Perhaps a batch process for the whole blw file?
Just to let you know that it might be a few days before Jon replies
as he is in Sardinia scoring the Techno Worlds. He is due to land
back in UK at 23:00GMT on Monday night 2nd November and then has at
least 3hr drive home.
Kind regards,
Huw
···
On 30/10/15 21:57, ‘Richard Evans
(GMail)’ [sailwave] wrote:
flag. We create a “template” blw file in the spring
every year containing all the boats that we think will
sail in the coming season to speed up data entry for
novice Sailwave users and to give some assurance of
accurate boat data. This gives a starter file that we
then personalise for for each series - series name etc.
All boats start out with the excluded flag set and as
race results are entered the Sailwave un-sets it for
boats that participate and only participants are then
included in published results. At the end of each series
there will remain some boats with the excluded flag
still set and if we were to do nothing more with the
resulting blw files that is fine.
Merging.
I've used the following settings
for two files A and B and merged B into A and then A
into B. The combinations result in different numbers of
boats.
I then deleted all excluded boats
to produce C and D and merged D into C and then C into
D. Both combinations have 28 boats.
Sailwave are you using? as there have
been improvements to the merge in recent
versions.
When you say * If
there are competitors with the
EXCLUDED flag set the merge does not
merge all boats and the outcome
varies depending on the order of
merging files!* could you
explain this, for myself it works
perfectly. If there are competitors
marked as excluded in the file you wish
to merge into the series, then it will
ignore them, which seems logical to me.
I can’t think why you would mark them as
excluded and want to then merge them in.
2. You don't say which options you
have selected for the merge but Sailwave
does give you a lot of flexibility
When you say subsequent matches are
not made can you expand please. Because
if a competitor does not match they will
be added, so if a competitor is sailing
different boats presumably with a
different Sail number or division then
it will treat them as two competitors
and merge if they match. I have this
situation regularly using division and
it works fine.
As for ratings please explain how you
would like it to work.
3. A boats rating is always its
specified default rating unless the race
rating has been changed or the flag on a
previous rating has been set to be use
this rating until it is changed
specifically by a new race rating
sail a number of
series each year and
at the end of the year
combine these to
produce an overall
aggregate result.
Using Sailwave to
merge series files
we’ve come across a
couple of hurdles.
If
there are
competitors with
the EXCLUDED flag
set the merge does
not merge all
boats and the
outcome varies
depending on the
order of merging
files! That can (I
think) be resolved
by deleting all
excluded
competitors.
To
encourage members
to sail other
boats during the
year or within a
series without
penalty in the
overall aggregate
result we want to
merge on helm name
or helm and crew
names. Two
problems or
perhaps “how to”
solutions needed:
When
merging series
it is likely
that an
individual
will have
sailed more
than one boat
in a
particular
series. The
merge seems to
assume only
one match is
possible and
does not
combine
subsequent
matches in the
“merged from”
series.
If
the merged
boats are
different
classes any
re-score will
use the
“Default”
rating or the
“Race” rating
if copied
during the
merge. The
“Default”
rating will
not be the
correct one
for some of
the boats
being merged.
Solutions?
Combine
results within
a single
series based
on say helm
name (or any
other
combination of
parameters
alowed) and
retain the
original
ratings so
that a
re-score gives
the same
original
result for
each race?
Could
a process be
developed that
sets the “Race
rating” to the
boat’s
“Default
rating” unless
it is already
set to
something
else? Perhaps
a batch
process for
the whole blw
file?
Sailwave are you using? as there have
been improvements to the merge in recent
versions.
When you say * If
there are competitors with the
EXCLUDED flag set the merge does not
merge all boats and the outcome
varies depending on the order of
merging files!* could you
explain this, for myself it works
perfectly. If there are competitors
marked as excluded in the file you wish
to merge into the series, then it will
ignore them, which seems logical to me.
I can’t think why you would mark them as
excluded and want to then merge them in.
2. You don't say which options you
have selected for the merge but Sailwave
does give you a lot of flexibility
When you say subsequent matches are
not made can you expand please. Because
if a competitor does not match they will
be added, so if a competitor is sailing
different boats presumably with a
different Sail number or division then
it will treat them as two competitors
and merge if they match. I have this
situation regularly using division and
it works fine.
As for ratings please explain how you
would like it to work.
3. A boats rating is always its
specified default rating unless the race
rating has been changed or the flag on a
previous rating has been set to be use
this rating until it is changed
specifically by a new race rating
sail a number of
series each year and
at the end of the year
combine these to
produce an overall
aggregate result.
Using Sailwave to
merge series files
we’ve come across a
couple of hurdles.
If
there are
competitors with
the EXCLUDED flag
set the merge does
not merge all
boats and the
outcome varies
depending on the
order of merging
files! That can (I
think) be resolved
by deleting all
excluded
competitors.
To
encourage members
to sail other
boats during the
year or within a
series without
penalty in the
overall aggregate
result we want to
merge on helm name
or helm and crew
names. Two
problems or
perhaps “how to”
solutions needed:
When
merging series
it is likely
that an
individual
will have
sailed more
than one boat
in a
particular
series. The
merge seems to
assume only
one match is
possible and
does not
combine
subsequent
matches in the
“merged from”
series.
If
the merged
boats are
different
classes any
re-score will
use the
“Default”
rating or the
“Race” rating
if copied
during the
merge. The
“Default”
rating will
not be the
correct one
for some of
the boats
being merged.
Solutions?
Combine
results within
a single
series based
on say helm
name (or any
other
combination of
parameters
alowed) and
retain the
original
ratings so
that a
re-score gives
the same
original
result for
each race?
Could
a process be
developed that
sets the “Race
rating” to the
boat’s
“Default
rating” unless
it is already
set to
something
else? Perhaps
a batch
process for
the whole blw
file?
Jon - I should have added that I am using v2.19.8 on Windows 10 and that the situation was the same a year ago on the then current version (? - I have been using the beta versions as they come available) and Windows 8.1.
To explain the use of the excluded flag. We create a “template” blw file in the spring every year containing all the boats that we think will sail in the coming season to speed up data entry for novice Sailwave users and to give some assurance of accurate boat data. This gives a starter file that we then personalise for for each series - series name etc. All boats start out with the excluded flag set and as race results are entered the Sailwave un-sets it for boats that participate and only participants are then included in published results. At the end of each series there will remain some boats with the excluded flag still set and if we were to do nothing more with the resulting blw files that is fine.
Merging.
I’ve used the following settings for two files A and B and merged B into A and then A into B. The combinations result in different numbers of boats.
I then deleted all excluded boats to produce C and D and merged D into C and then C into D. Both combinations have 28 boats.
Rather than send all 8 files to the group I’ll send them to you personally.
The issue is when you have excluded competitors in the host file that you are merging into. It is OK to have excluded competitors in the file that you are merging in as these will get ignored.
If you delete all excluded competitors in the host file before merging in another every thing is fine.
The problem arises in your case when you have a competitor in the host file that is marked as excluded and you have that same competitor (not excluded) in the file you wish to merge in because it can’t un-exclude the competitor in the host file because it could have results that you don’t want.
So I don’t see how the software can be changed safely - The best thing is to delete excluded competitors before merging - May be Sailwave could warn and delete them automatically?
