we run handicap racing and some helms change boats depending say on whether they have a crew or not - can sailwave cope with this situation?
Hi Jeff,
Yes you can, you can change the rating for each race if you want
Jon
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Jon Eskdale
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In my limited experience, I would think that if the helm changes boats then they should be scored for each individual boat/class that they sail. The same would apply if someone sails a laser with a full size rig in good winds, but uses a Radial rig in strong winds. Although essentially the same helm, they are sailing a boat with a different PYN.
However, we have a rule in our particular club which states that a helm of an Aero can change rigs, ie 5, 7, or 9, but whatever rig they uses in the first race in the series, then this will be the PYN they get scored with throughout the series, irrespective of what Rig they use.
Do other clubs use that type of arrangement?
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On 4 Sep 2019, at 21:36, jeff.peters@virginmedia.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
we run handicap racing and some helms change boats depending say on whether they have a crew or not - can sailwave cope with this situation?
Hi Jeff
We score our series on Helm rather than Boat, to allow for changes in the same way as you do.
We put the entry down with whatever class the sailor first turns up in, then if he turns up in something else later in the series, change the handicap as appropriate for that race and put a note in the Notes page for the Race (Edit Race dialogue box) to say that “so and so sailed a XXX Class in this race” . If you do your results entry by Helm Name you don’t have to cope with the confusion of wrong sail numbers.
Regards
Ian Day
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On 4 Sep 2019, at 20:36, jeff.peters@virginmedia.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
we run handicap racing and some helms change boats depending say on whether they have a crew or not - can sailwave cope with this situation?
I’m my Club, we deal with boats which can change rig by saying that they use the handicap for the biggest rig they actually sail with for each race in the series - we feel this equates well with other boats which still get the same handicap even if they decide to reef on a windy day.
If somebody enters a Laser Radial (for example), they use the Radial handicap as long as they use that rig or smaller, but if they bring out a full Laser rig on a light weather day, they change to the full Laser handicap for the whole series
Regards
Ian Day
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On 4 Sep 2019, at 23:41, Brian Starr brian.starr@virgin.net [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
In my limited experience, I would think that if the helm changes boats then they should be scored for each individual boat/class that they sail. The same would apply if someone sails a laser with a full size rig in good winds, but uses a Radial rig in strong winds. Although essentially the same helm, they are sailing a boat with a different PYN.
However, we have a rule in our particular club which states that a helm of an Aero can change rigs, ie 5, 7, or 9, but whatever rig they uses in the first race in the series, then this will be the PYN they get scored with throughout the series, irrespective of what Rig they use.
Do other clubs use that type of arrangement?
Sent from my iPhone
On 4 Sep 2019, at 21:36, jeff.peters@virginmedia.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
we run handicap racing and some helms change boats depending say on whether they have a crew or not - can sailwave cope with this situation?
Its a difficult one.
At most clubs its hard to get a reasonable number of people completing a series without scoring DNCs. So there’s a strong motivation to combine results for people who sail a two hander when they can and a singlehander when they must. Relatively few people would think that a bad thing.
Its more difficult when people sail a different class or a different rig to suit the conditions. Traditionally, and still in boats that reef, one reduced sail because it was faster to sail with reduced sail, and didn’t have an adjusted handicap. Offshore racers, and 18ft skiffs, to name but two obvious examples, don’t have a handicap adjustment if they put different size sails up. It would, I think, be a defendable position for a club to say “You can sail different rigs or even classes in the series, but your handicap will be that of the fastest boat you sail”. The obvious problem with this is that it brings the situation where you have two identical boats in a race with different ratings.
On the other hand allowing people to swap between classes also has its problems. If John sails one of three different sized rigs according to what suits the conditions, and Sara uses the middle sized rig all the time, then over the course of a series a fair handicap for Sara would be different to a fair handicap for John when he has the middle sized rig up.
But the problem is we still have a strong motivation to get as many people completing a series as possible, and so we want to combine results. There is, I think, no definitive answer: its up to clubs to decide what suits their individual circumstances best. There’s an interesting thought that in an ideal world PY returns for RS Aero 9 (swapping rigs) would be separated from RS Aero 9 (same rig in all conditions). Maybe we shouldn’t go there?
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OK, so much for theory, what about Sailwave? The obvious answer is as posted, adjust rating for individual races, put a note in the comments field. I do wonder what happens to the PY return with those results though. Ideally I suppose they would be discarded. With my other hat on I suppose I ought to know! At my club we’ve got in the habit of recording the different classes separately, and merging the results towards the end of the series with a special code. That in many ways makes things easier for the person filling in the results, at the cost of a bit more effort at the end.
What would I like to see? Ideally I suppose there would be a field for class in the individual race result box, and some code to concatenate the class names in the published results. That feels like a fearsome amount of code rewriting and major backwards compatability problems though. Another option might be a sort of reverse alias, where results from more than one boat are combined in a single score, and the individual results are excluded from the series score. That also feels like a lot of work. The question is how much the rise of the RS Aero with its emphasis on rig swapping is going to make this a common requirement.
Sorry this was so long, I’ve thought a lot about this issue. One thing for sure, no easy answers.
Jim C (writing strictly personal opinions)