Club Racing -- Late Entries

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1

All,

An odd problem has occurred, due to one of the sections in our Club Racing SI's:

"A boat shall declare the class in which she intends to compete before
the start of each series. Thereafter she may change only upon written
request and subsequent written consent of the Rear Commodore-Sail.
Such a request will only be granted once within a series. Any such
change will not take effect until 24 hours after the written request is
received. All races prior to the change in class will be discarded from all
series results including class champion. A notice of the approved
change of class will be posted on the Sailing Notice Board before 1200
hrs on the day it is to take effect."
(Here, Class = Fleet)

One of the problems this creates is what happens when a boat joins a fleet somewhere in the middle of the series. Anyone who has a DNC in any race prior to the one where this boat joined should have Fleet+1 for _that_race_, not after. So if a Fleet had 9 boats in Races 1-9, and a boat joins the Fleet for R10 - 13, DNC's should be 9+1 = 10 for R1-9, and 10+1 = 11 for R10 - 13.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way that I can find to do this in Sailwave.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
Patrick

2

Patrick

I also used to get uptight about this very subject.

When I started looking at results however, I realised that it had virtually no impact on series results.

The greater the number of entrants in the series & the number of discards, the lesser the impact.

In a similar vein, what happens if a competitor races in the first race & then never races in that series again?

Normal App A will increase the value of letter scores for the whole series.

My solution to this problem was to stop worrying about the mathematical unfairness of this ‘inconsiderate’ sailor & worry more about how soon I could get served with another pint at the bar :wink:

I presume that your SIs apply App A9 for those who at least turned out but did not get a finishing place?

You could always change the last sentence of A9 to be a fixed number of points if really necessary.

Regards

Ralph

···

From: Patrick Toal (Personal) [mailto:ptoal@takeflight.ca]
Sent: 24 October 2006 00:52
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Club Racing – Late Entries

All,

An odd problem has occurred, due to one of the sections in our Club
Racing SI’s:

“A boat shall declare the class in which she intends to compete before
the start of each series. Thereafter she may change only upon written
request and subsequent written consent of the Rear Commodore-Sail.
Such a request will only be granted once within a series. Any such
change will not take effect until 24 hours after the written request is
received. All races prior to the change in class will be discarded from all
series results including class champion. A notice of the approved
change of class will be posted on the Sailing Notice Board before 1200
hrs on the day it is to take effect.”
(Here, Class = Fleet)

One of the problems this creates is what happens when a boat joins a
fleet somewhere in the middle of the series. Anyone who has a DNC in
any race prior to the one where this boat joined should have Fleet+1 for
that_race, not after. So if a Fleet had 9 boats in Races 1-9, and a
boat joins the Fleet for R10 - 13, DNC’s should be 9+1 = 10 for R1-9,
and 10+1 = 11 for R10 - 13.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way that I can find to do this in Sailwave.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
Patrick

3

For club racing App A specifes number of boats that came to the start area in that race + 1 so I would suggest that Patrick just uses that… Its fair to those that turned up and is not affected by new entries.

CJ

···

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ralph Tingle
Sent: 24 October 2006 09:48
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Club Racing – Late Entries

Patrick

I also used to get uptight about this very subject.

When I started looking at results however, I realised that it had virtually no impact on series results.

The greater the number of entrants in the series & the number of discards, the lesser the impact.

In a similar vein, what happens if a competitor races in the first race & then never races in that series again?

Normal App A will increase the value of letter scores for the whole series.

My solution to this problem was to stop worrying about the mathematical unfairness of this ‘inconsiderate’ sailor & worry more about how soon I could get served with another pint at the bar :wink:

I presume that your SIs apply App A9 for those who at least turned out but did not get a finishing place?

You could always change the last sentence of A9 to be a fixed number of points if really necessary.

Regards

Ralph

From: Patrick Toal (Personal) [mailto:ptoal@takeflight.ca]
Sent: 24 October 2006 00:52
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Club Racing – Late Entries

All,

An odd problem has occurred, due to one of the sections in our Club
Racing SI’s:

“A boat shall declare the class in which she intends to compete before
the start of each series. Thereafter she may change only upon written
request and subsequent written consent of the Rear Commodore-Sail.
Such a request will only be granted once within a series. Any such
change will not take effect until 24 hours after the written request is
received. All races prior to the change in class will be discarded from all
series results including class champion. A notice of the approved
change of class will be posted on the Sailing Notice Board before 1200
hrs on the day it is to take effect.”
(Here, Class = Fleet)

One of the problems this creates is what happens when a boat joins a
fleet somewhere in the middle of the series. Anyone who has a DNC in
any race prior to the one where this boat joined should have Fleet+1 for
that_race, not after. So if a Fleet had 9 boats in Races 1-9, and a
boat joins the Fleet for R10 - 13, DNC’s should be 9+1 = 10 for R1-9,
and 10+1 = 11 for R10 - 13.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way that I can find to do this in Sailwave.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
Patrick

4

I was under the impression that SW automatically recalculates the points for DNC if boats are added during a series?

I’ve had that query before at my sailing club and I think I was able to demonstrate this by looking at the points allocated.

regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Benoni, South Africa

···

----- Original Message -----

From:
Patrick Toal (Personal)

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 1:52 AM

Subject: [sailwave] Club Racing – Late Entries

All,

An odd problem has occurred, due to one of the sections in our Club
Racing SI’s:

“A boat shall declare the class in which she intends to compete before
the start of each series. Thereafter she may change only upon written
request and subsequent written consent of the Rear Commodore-Sail.
Such a request will only be granted once within a series. Any such
change will not take effect until 24 hours after the written request is
received. All races prior to the change in class will be discarded from all
series results including class champion. A notice of the approved
change of class will be posted on the Sailing Notice Board before 1200
hrs on the day it is to take effect.”
(Here, Class = Fleet)

One of the problems this creates is what happens when a boat joins a
fleet somewhere in the middle of the series. Anyone who has a DNC in
any race prior to the one where this boat joined should have Fleet+1 for
that_race, not after. So if a Fleet had 9 boats in Races 1-9, and a
boat joins the Fleet for R10 - 13, DNC’s should be 9+1 = 10 for R1-9,
and 10+1 = 11 for R10 - 13.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way that I can find to do this in Sailwave.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
Patrick

5

Message
all you have to do is change the DNC to DNS in the races the boat has not sailed

  Regards,

John Tiano

SLRMBC

···

-----Original Message-----
From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] ** On Behalf Of** Patrick Toal (Personal)
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 7:52 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Club Racing – Late Entries

All,

An odd problem has occurred, due to one of the sections in our Club
Racing SI’s:

“A boat shall declare the class in which she intends to compete before
the start of each series. Thereafter she may change only upon written
request and subsequent written consent of the Rear Commodore-Sail.
Such a request will only be granted once within a series. Any such
change will not take effect until 24 hours after the written request is
received. All races prior to the change in class will be discarded from all
series results including class champion. A notice of the approved
change of class will be posted on the Sailing Notice Board before 1200
hrs on the day it is to take effect.”
(Here, Class = Fleet)

One of the problems this creates is what happens when a boat joins a
fleet somewhere in the middle of the series. Anyone who has a DNC in
any race prior to the one where this boat joined should have Fleet+1 for
that_race, not after. So if a Fleet had 9 boats in Races 1-9, and a
boat joins the Fleet for R10 - 13, DNC’s should be 9+1 = 10 for R1-9,
and 10+1 = 11 for R10 - 13.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way that I can find to do this in Sailwave.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
Patrick

6

I believe that would be incorrect to score them DNS. DNS indicates
that the boat came out to the starting line (for at least the first
race of the day) but failed to start.

cheers,

evan

···

-

John Tiano wrote:

all you have to do is change the DNC to DNS in the races the boat has not sailed

      Regards,

  John Tiano

SLRMBC

    -----Original Message-----
    *From:* sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
    *On Behalf Of *Patrick Toal (Personal)
    *Sent:* Monday, October 23, 2006 7:52 PM
    *To:* sailwave@yahoogroups.com
    *Subject:* [sailwave] Club Racing -- Late Entries

    All,

    An odd problem has occurred, due to one of the sections in our Club
    Racing SI's:

    "A boat shall declare the class in which she intends to compete before
    the start of each series. Thereafter she may change only upon written
    request and subsequent written consent of the Rear Commodore-Sail.
    Such a request will only be granted once within a series. Any such
    change will not take effect until 24 hours after the written request is
    received. All races prior to the change in class will be discarded
    from all
    series results including class champion. A notice of the approved
    change of class will be posted on the Sailing Notice Board before 1200
    hrs on the day it is to take effect."
    (Here, Class = Fleet)

    One of the problems this creates is what happens when a boat joins a
    fleet somewhere in the middle of the series. Anyone who has a DNC in
    any race prior to the one where this boat joined should have Fleet+1
    for
    _that_race_, not after. So if a Fleet had 9 boats in Races 1-9, and a
    boat joins the Fleet for R10 - 13, DNC's should be 9+1 = 10 for R1-9,
    and 10+1 = 11 for R10 - 13.

    Unfortunately, there is no easy way that I can find to do this in
    Sailwave.

    Does anyone have any suggestions?

    Thanks in advance,
    Patrick

7

try to look at it this way:

If a boat shows up, but is still not able to start (could be a boat failure or anything), it should be scored DNS.

If a boat doesn’t show up at all, it should be scored less than the boat that showed up: DNC

This is often used in club series, because you want as many boats as possible to show up as many times as possible.

This difference in scoring will only have effect in series that is longer than a regatta. That means tha a “national” regatta held over 3 days, will not have any point differences between DNC and DNS.

Actually DNC is special than all other scoring codes, in that it will vary depending on how many boats attending the series.

So, if you ar “first on the water” next soring, you will earn points… Even if your boat breakes down before, or soon after, the start…

That’s it! If any clubs wants their series to be scored otherwise, they’ll have to state that in th SI.

regards,

Martin

···

----- Original Message -----

From:
Evan Caves

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 8:34 PM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Club Racing – Late Entries

I believe that would be incorrect to score them DNS. DNS indicates
that the boat came out to the starting line (for at least the first
race of the day) but failed to start.

cheers,

evan

John Tiano wrote:

all you have to do is change the DNC to DNS in the races the boat has
not sailed

Regards,

John Tiano

SLRMBC

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
*On Behalf Of *Patrick Toal (Personal)
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 7:52 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Club Racing – Late Entries

All,

An odd problem has occurred, due to one of the sections in our Club
Racing SI’s:

“A boat shall declare the class in which she intends to compete before
the start of each series. Thereafter she may change only upon written
request and subsequent written consent of the Rear Commodore-Sail.
Such a request will only be granted once within a series. Any such
change will not take effect until 24 hours after the written request is
received. All races prior to the change in class will be discarded
from all
series results including class champion. A notice of the approved
change of class will be posted on the Sailing Notice Board before 1200
hrs on the day it is to take effect.”
(Here, Class = Fleet)

One of the problems this creates is what happens when a boat joins a
fleet somewhere in the middle of the series. Anyone who has a DNC in
any race prior to the one where this boat joined should have Fleet+1
for
that_race, not after. So if a Fleet had 9 boats in Races 1-9, and a
boat joins the Fleet for R10 - 13, DNC’s should be 9+1 = 10 for R1-9,
and 10+1 = 11 for R10 - 13.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way that I can find to do this in
Sailwave.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
Patrick

8

They did not come to the starting so can not be scored DNS, they must be scored DNC.

Mark Townsend s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com

···

From: “John Tiano” jtiano@adelphia.net
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Club Racing – Late Entries
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:52:48 -0400

all you have to do is change the DNC to DNS in the races the boat has not sailed

  Regards,

John Tiano

SLRMBC

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Toal (Personal)
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 7:52 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Club Racing – Late Entries

All,

An odd problem has occurred, due to one of the sections in our Club
Racing SI’s:

“A boat shall declare the class in which she intends to compete before
the start of each series. Thereafter she may change only upon written
request and subsequent written consent of the Rear Commodore-Sail.
Such a request will only be granted once within a series. Any such
change will not take effect until 24 hours after the written request is
received. All races prior to the change in class will be discarded from all
series results including class champion. A notice of the approved
change of class will be posted on the Sailing Notice Board before 1200
hrs on the day it is to take effect.”
(Here, Class = Fleet)

One of the problems this creates is what happens when a boat joins a
fleet somewhere in the middle of the series. Anyone who has a DNC in
any race prior to the one where this boat joined should have Fleet+1 for
that_race, not after. So if a Fleet had 9 boats in Races 1-9, and a
boat joins the Fleet for R10 - 13, DNC’s should be 9+1 = 10 for R1-9,
and 10+1 = 11 for R10 - 13.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way that I can find to do this in Sailwave.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
Patrick

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9

Hi,

First of all, thanks Colin for sorting out the series import - I had cause to use it again the other day and it all works great now.

On to my question...

Is there any way to get more control over the published output from Sailwave than the css-based templates allow?

For example, is it possible to generate a page with additional elements or with the actual results placed in a nested table etc.?

What I am really looking for is the ability to specify a template which is a complete HTML page with special replacement strings for each of the elements which Sailwave will add.

Thanks,

Ian