Re: Club SIs
Gordon
As it happens standardising S.I.s is a recent topic of conversation at our club. A copy of your standard would be appreciated as a reference.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Regards
Chris Harris
Our SIs are 5 pages of a Word document (written in quite large type and with lots of space). It may be simpler to send them direct.
Contact me at gordondavies@eircom.net a,d I will send you a copy.
The basic principle when writing SIs is, as far as I am concerned, to start with Appendix L and fill in the blanks as appropriate. When writing the odd sentence to complete the SIs I prefer to use words and grammar that are already used by ISAF, either in the SI and NOR guides, or in the rules. So, for instance, I do not refer to an “outer distance mark” as the pin end of the start line, but to the “starting mark”
I differ with the SI guide on only one point. Appendix L recommends that indications concerning the start procedure only be included if there is a modification to the standard Rule 26 procedure. I got fed up asking questions from bewildered competitors so I now include an instruction that Rule 26 will apply!
I am a bit of an SI nerd (I collect them) and would be happy to read and comment any proposed SIs.
Gordon
···
----- Original Message -----
From:
Chris Harris
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:24 AM
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Gordon
As it happens standardising
S.I.s is a recent topic of conversation at our club. A copy of your standard would be appreciated as a reference.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Regards
** Chris Harris**
Hi Gordon
Agree with your sentiments, especially Rule 26
My standard SIs for regattas always carries the para - Races will be started by using rule 26 i.e. 5, 4, 1, GO
I know we are told not to do this but this is a pretty crucial piece of information to ensure that we get good starts
Regards
Ralph
···
From: gordon davies [mailto:gordondavies@eircom.net]
Sent: 20 May 2007 11:50
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Our SIs are 5 pages of a Word document (written in quite large type and with lots of space). It may be simpler to send them direct.
Contact me at gordondavies@eircom.net a,d I will send you a copy.
The basic principle when writing SIs is, as far as I am concerned, to start with Appendix L and fill in the blanks as appropriate. When writing the odd sentence to complete the SIs I prefer to use words and grammar that are already used by ISAF, either in the SI and NOR guides, or in the rules. So, for instance, I do not refer to an “outer distance mark” as the pin end of the start line, but to the “starting mark”
I differ with the SI guide on only one point. Appendix L recommends that indications concerning the start procedure only be included if there is a modification to the standard Rule 26 procedure. I got fed up asking questions from bewildered competitors so I now include an instruction that Rule 26 will apply!
I am a bit of an SI nerd (I collect them) and would be happy to read and comment any proposed SIs.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Harris
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:24 AM
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Gordon
As it happens standardising
S.I.s is a recent topic of conversation at our club. A copy of your standard would be appreciated as a reference.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Regards
** Chris Harris**
When running multiple starts we always leave 1 minute between a start and the next 5 minute gun. Whilst this prolongs the whole start procedure it does give the (often inexperienced) committee boat crew a short breather to check flags etc for the next start.
Gordon
···
----- Original Message -----
From:
Ralph Tingle
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 12:51 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Hi Gordon
Agree with your sentiments, especially Rule 26
My standard SIs for regattas always carries the para - Races will be started by using rule 26 i.e. 5, 4, 1, GO
I know we are told not to do this but this is a pretty crucial piece of information to ensure that we get good starts
Regards
Ralph
From: gordon davies [mailto:gordondavies@eircom.net]
Sent: 20 May 2007 11:50
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Our SIs are 5 pages of a Word document (written in quite large type and with lots of space). It may be simpler to send them direct.
Contact me at gordondavies@eircom.net a,d I will send you a copy.
The basic principle when writing SIs is, as far as I am concerned, to start with Appendix L and fill in the blanks as appropriate. When writing the odd sentence to complete the SIs I prefer to use words and grammar that are already used by ISAF, either in the SI and NOR guides, or in the rules. So, for instance, I do not refer to an “outer distance mark” as the pin end of the start line, but to the “starting mark”
I differ with the SI guide on only one point. Appendix L recommends that indications concerning the start procedure only be included if there is a modification to the standard Rule 26 procedure. I got fed up asking questions from bewildered competitors so I now include an instruction that Rule 26 will apply!
I am a bit of an SI nerd (I collect them) and would be happy to read and comment any proposed SIs.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Harris
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:24 AM
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Gordon
As it happens standardising S.I.s is a recent topic of conversation at our club. A copy of your standard would be appreciated as a reference.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Regards
** Chris Harris**
Always start with appendix L and stick as close as possible.
Have them checked.
RYA Race Management Group, do check and probably can advise on sailing instructions.
Mike Butterfield IRO IU NJ
Member RYA Race Management Group
···
----- Original Message -----
From:
Chris Harris
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:24 AM
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Gordon
As it happens standardising
S.I.s is a recent topic of conversation at our club. A copy of your standard would be appreciated as a reference.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Regards
** Chris Harris**
I think this ruins the clock cycle and makes life harder. It will not work with automated start systems unless you have had them hard wired.
I would only do this if I wanted to post a different course.
Mike
···
----- Original Message -----
From:
gordon davies
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
When running multiple starts we always leave 1 minute between a start and the next 5 minute gun. Whilst this prolongs the whole start procedure it does give the (often inexperienced) committee boat crew a short breather to check flags etc for the next start.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph Tingle
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 12:51 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Hi Gordon
Agree with your sentiments, especially Rule 26
My standard SIs for regattas always carries the para - Races will be started by using rule 26 i.e. 5, 4, 1, GO
I know we are told not to do this but this is a pretty crucial piece of information to ensure that we get good starts
Regards
Ralph
From: gordon davies [mailto:gordondavies@eircom.net]
Sent: 20 May 2007 11:50
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Our SIs are 5 pages of a Word document (written in quite large type and with lots of space). It may be simpler to send them direct.
Contact me at gordondavies@eircom.net a,d I will send you a copy.
The basic principle when writing SIs is, as far as I am concerned, to start with Appendix L and fill in the blanks as appropriate. When writing the odd sentence to complete the SIs I prefer to use words and grammar that are already used by ISAF, either in the SI and NOR guides, or in the rules. So, for instance, I do not refer to an "outer distance mark" as the pin end of the start line, but to the "starting mark"
I differ with the SI guide on only one point. Appendix L recommends that indications concerning the start procedure only be included if there is a modification to the standard Rule 26 procedure. I got fed up asking questions from bewildered competitors so I now include an instruction that Rule 26 will apply!
I am a bit of an SI nerd (I collect them) and would be happy to read and comment any proposed SIs.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Harris
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:24 AM
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Gordon
As it happens standardising S.I.s is a recent topic of conversation at our club. A copy of your standard would be appreciated as a reference.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Regards
** Chris Harris**
You spoil them it is in the Rule book, which they should be encouraged to read.
Mike
···
----- Original Message -----
From:
Ralph Tingle
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 12:51 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Hi Gordon
Agree with your sentiments, especially Rule 26
My standard SIs for regattas always carries the para - Races will be started by using rule 26 i.e. 5, 4, 1, GO
I know we are told not to do this but this is a pretty crucial piece of information to ensure that we get good starts
Regards
Ralph
From: gordon davies [mailto:gordondavies@eircom.net]
Sent: 20 May 2007 11:50
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Our SIs are 5 pages of a Word document (written in quite large type and with lots of space). It may be simpler to send them direct.
Contact me at gordondavies@eircom.net a,d I will send you a copy.
The basic principle when writing SIs is, as far as I am concerned, to start with Appendix L and fill in the blanks as appropriate. When writing the odd sentence to complete the SIs I prefer to use words and grammar that are already used by ISAF, either in the SI and NOR guides, or in the rules. So, for instance, I do not refer to an “outer distance mark” as the pin end of the start line, but to the “starting mark”
I differ with the SI guide on only one point. Appendix L recommends that indications concerning the start procedure only be included if there is a modification to the standard Rule 26 procedure. I got fed up asking questions from bewildered competitors so I now include an instruction that Rule 26 will apply!
I am a bit of an SI nerd (I collect them) and would be happy to read and comment any proposed SIs.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Harris
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:24 AM
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Gordon
As it happens standardising S.I.s is a recent topic of conversation at our club. A copy of your standard would be appreciated as a reference.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Regards
** Chris Harris**
Hi Mike,
We met at a JP Morgan event this winter. Hope we’ll have some match racing activity here on the mono-lingual side of the Irish Sea soon, and the pleasure of inviting you over
I use the “minute gap” when working with a committee boat crew who may be running races for the first time - it gives us a minute to make sure the right flags ready, that any issues from the last start have been dealt with, check that the marks aren’t drifting etc. We don’t have automatic start systems, indeed I have heard of one club regatta where the Committee boat didn’t have a watch on board! Using a handheld GPS they were 7 seconds out on each start. at least they were consistent.
One point I often have difficulty in getting across in ISA meetings is that race management solutions that work in the big venues with highly competent crew may not be appropriate in smaller clubs, and vice versa… someone needs to write the “Art of Coarse Race Management”.
For instance we have used, with great success, a procedure for managing “away” races for our cruiser fleet (a motley collection of bilge-keelers of somewhat uncertain age and provenance!) that, as an NJ, I would have no hesitation as describing as an aberration. Once the fleet sails over the horizon the Class Captain (a competitor) effectively becomes the Race Officer, with authority to shorten or change the course (using VHF) so that everybody gets into the pub with adequate drinking time before them. It may sound strange, indeed an abomination to a rules purist, but it has worked for many years and has never given rise to a request for redress (thankfully, for, having translated the Cruiser Class’ request into ISAFese, I would then be faced with the unnerving prospect of chairing the hearing!). However, I would not recommend that any other club follow our example.
Gordon
···
----- Original Message -----
From:
Mike & Trish Butterfield
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
I think this ruins the clock cycle and makes life harder. It will not work with automated start systems unless you have had them hard wired.
I would only do this if I wanted to post a different course.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: gordon davies
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
When running multiple starts we always leave 1 minute between a start and the next 5 minute gun. Whilst this prolongs the whole start procedure it does give the (often inexperienced) committee boat crew a short breather to check flags etc for the next start.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph Tingle
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 12:51 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Hi Gordon
Agree with your sentiments, especially Rule 26
My standard SIs for regattas always carries the para - Races will be started by using rule 26 i.e. 5, 4, 1, GO
I know we are told not to do this but this is a pretty crucial piece of information to ensure that we get good starts
Regards
Ralph
From: gordon davies [mailto:gordondavies@eircom.net]
Sent: 20 May 2007 11:50
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Our SIs are 5 pages of a Word document (written in quite large type and with lots of space). It may be simpler to send them direct.
Contact me at gordondavies@eircom.net a,d I will send you a copy.
The basic principle when writing SIs is, as far as I am concerned, to start with Appendix L and fill in the blanks as appropriate. When writing the odd sentence to complete the SIs I prefer to use words and grammar that are already used by ISAF, either in the SI and NOR guides, or in the rules. So, for instance, I do not refer to an "outer distance mark" as the pin end of the start line, but to the "starting mark"
I differ with the SI guide on only one point. Appendix L recommends that indications concerning the start procedure only be included if there is a modification to the standard Rule 26 procedure. I got fed up asking questions from bewildered competitors so I now include an instruction that Rule 26 will apply!
I am a bit of an SI nerd (I collect them) and would be happy to read and comment any proposed SIs.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Harris
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:24 AM
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Gordon
As it happens standardising S.I.s is a recent topic of conversation at our club. A copy of your standard would be appreciated as a reference.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Regards
** Chris Harris**
If it works, it’s good!
My race managment system has just been delivered from over the water your way!
Have you ever seen the Royal Thames way of sailing, for a fixed time. Positions are recorded by the hour from GPS. At the fixed time, all record their position, and motor to the venue to enjoy the hospitality.
The chart is consulted and results are based on the fastest corrected time to the last plot relative to the finish. I have more details should you wish.
Mike
Look forward to meeting again
···
----- Original Message -----
From:
gordon davies
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Hi Mike,
We met at a JP Morgan event this winter. Hope we’ll have some match racing activity here on the mono-lingual side of the Irish Sea soon, and the pleasure of inviting you over
I use the “minute gap” when working with a committee boat crew who may be running races for the first time - it gives us a minute to make sure the right flags ready, that any issues from the last start have been dealt with, check that the marks aren’t drifting etc. We don’t have automatic start systems, indeed I have heard of one club regatta where the Committee boat didn’t have a watch on board! Using a handheld GPS they were 7 seconds out on each start. at least they were consistent.
One point I often have difficulty in getting across in ISA meetings is that race management solutions that work in the big venues with highly competent crew may not be appropriate in smaller clubs, and vice versa… someone needs to write the “Art of Coarse Race Management”.
For instance we have used, with great success, a procedure for managing “away” races for our cruiser fleet (a motley collection of bilge-keelers of somewhat uncertain age and provenance!) that, as an NJ, I would have no hesitation as describing as an aberration. Once the fleet sails over the horizon the Class Captain (a competitor) effectively becomes the Race Officer, with authority to shorten or change the course (using VHF) so that everybody gets into the pub with adequate drinking time before them. It may sound strange, indeed an abomination to a rules purist, but it has worked for many years and has never given rise to a request for redress (thankfully, for, having translated the Cruiser Class’ request into ISAFese, I would then be faced with the unnerving prospect of chairing the hearing!). However, I would not recommend that any other club follow our example.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike & Trish Butterfield
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
I think this ruins the clock cycle and makes life harder. It will not work with automated start systems unless you have had them hard wired.
I would only do this if I wanted to post a different course.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: gordon davies
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
When running multiple starts we always leave 1 minute between a start and the next 5 minute gun. Whilst this prolongs the whole start procedure it does give the (often inexperienced) committee boat crew a short breather to check flags etc for the next start.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph Tingle
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 12:51 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Hi Gordon
Agree with your sentiments, especially Rule 26
My standard SIs for regattas always carries the para - Races will be started by using rule 26 i.e. 5, 4, 1, GO
I know we are told not to do this but this is a pretty crucial piece of information to ensure that we get good starts
Regards
Ralph
From: gordon davies [mailto:gordondavies@eircom.net]
Sent: 20 May 2007 11:50
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Our SIs are 5 pages of a Word document (written in quite large type and with lots of space). It may be simpler to send them direct.
Contact me at gordondavies@eircom.net
a,d I will send you a copy.
The basic principle when writing SIs is, as far as I am concerned, to start with Appendix L and fill in the blanks as appropriate. When writing the odd sentence to complete the SIs I prefer to use words and grammar that are already used by ISAF, either in the SI and NOR guides, or in the rules. So, for instance, I do not refer to an "outer distance mark" as the pin end of the start line, but to the "starting mark"
I differ with the SI guide on only one point. Appendix L recommends that indications concerning the start procedure only be included if there is a modification to the standard Rule 26 procedure. I got fed up asking questions from bewildered competitors so I now include an instruction that Rule 26 will apply!
I am a bit of an SI nerd (I collect them) and would be happy to read and comment any proposed SIs.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Harris
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:24 AM
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Gordon
As it happens standardising S.I.s is a recent topic of conversation at our club. A copy of your standard would be appreciated as a reference.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Regards
** Chris Harris**
I’m sure it’ll be integrated into Sailwave soon!
Gordon
···
----- Original Message -----
From:
Mike & Trish Butterfield
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
If it works, it’s good!
My race managment system has just been delivered from over the water your way!
Have you ever seen the Royal Thames way of sailing, for a fixed time. Positions are recorded by the hour from GPS. At the fixed time, all record their position, and motor to the venue to enjoy the hospitality.
The chart is consulted and results are based on the fastest corrected time to the last plot relative to the finish. I have more details should you wish.
Mike
Look forward to meeting again
----- Original Message -----
From: gordon davies
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Hi Mike,
We met at a JP Morgan event this winter. Hope we'll have some match racing activity here on the mono-lingual side of the Irish Sea soon, and the pleasure of inviting you over
I use the "minute gap" when working with a committee boat crew who may be running races for the first time - it gives us a minute to make sure the right flags ready, that any issues from the last start have been dealt with, check that the marks aren't drifting etc. We don't have automatic start systems, indeed I have heard of one club regatta where the Committee boat didn't have a watch on board! Using a handheld GPS they were 7 seconds out on each start. at least they were consistent.
One point I often have difficulty in getting across in ISA meetings is that race management solutions that work in the big venues with highly competent crew may not be appropriate in smaller clubs, and vice versa... someone needs to write the "Art of Coarse Race Management".
For instance we have used, with great success, a procedure for managing "away" races for our cruiser fleet (a motley collection of bilge-keelers of somewhat uncertain age and provenance!) that, as an NJ, I would have no hesitation as describing as an aberration. Once the fleet sails over the horizon the Class Captain (a competitor) effectively becomes the Race Officer, with authority to shorten or change the course (using VHF) so that everybody gets into the pub with adequate drinking time before them. It may sound strange, indeed an abomination to a rules purist, but it has worked for many years and has never given rise to a request for redress (thankfully, for, having translated the Cruiser Class' request into ISAFese, I would then be faced with the unnerving prospect of chairing the hearing!). However, I would not recommend that any other club follow our example.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike & Trish Butterfield
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
I think this ruins the clock cycle and makes life harder. It will not work with automated start systems unless you have had them hard wired.
I would only do this if I wanted to post a different course.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: gordon davies
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
When running multiple starts we always leave 1 minute between a start and the next 5 minute gun. Whilst this prolongs the whole start procedure it does give the (often inexperienced) committee boat crew a short breather to check flags etc for the next start.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph Tingle
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 12:51 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Hi Gordon
Agree with your sentiments, especially Rule 26
My standard SIs for regattas always carries the para - Races will be started by using rule 26 i.e. 5, 4, 1, GO
I know we are told not to do this but this is a pretty crucial piece of information to ensure that we get good starts
Regards
Ralph
From: gordon davies [mailto:gordondavies@eircom.net]
Sent: 20 May 2007 11:50
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Our SIs are 5 pages of a Word document (written in quite large type and with lots of space). It may be simpler to send them direct.
Contact me at gordondavies@eircom.net
a,d I will send you a copy.
The basic principle when writing SIs is, as far as I am concerned, to start with Appendix L and fill in the blanks as appropriate. When writing the odd sentence to complete the SIs I prefer to use words and grammar that are already used by ISAF, either in the SI and NOR guides, or in the rules. So, for instance, I do not refer to an "outer distance mark" as the pin end of the start line, but to the "starting mark"
I differ with the SI guide on only one point. Appendix L recommends that indications concerning the start procedure only be included if there is a modification to the standard Rule 26 procedure. I got fed up asking questions from bewildered competitors so I now include an instruction that Rule 26 will apply!
I am a bit of an SI nerd (I collect them) and would be happy to read and comment any proposed SIs.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Harris
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:24 AM
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Club SIs
Gordon
As it happens standardising S.I.s is a recent topic of conversation at our club. A copy of your standard would be appreciated as a reference.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Regards
** Chris Harris**