Competitor PHRF Ratings Changed Automatically by Sailwave

First off I'm new to sailboat racing/scoring but am self teaching myself from scoring spreadsheets provided by others and Sailwave help files/resources. Sailwave has been far superior to the spreadsheet option and I have solved all but one problem I can't seem to find an answer to. I would apprecaite any advise from other Sailwave users.

I am given assinged PHRF handicap numbers for each individual boat registered for a race that they are assigned from PHRF. I enter these into the Competitor screen in the PHRF field. Then after all boats are registed the Race Chair tells me which class each boat is to be put in. I manually edit each competitor on the Competitor screen choosing their Class. The problem is as soon as I change any competitor's Class, it either erases the PHRF rating I entered or assigns it a different PHRF number, seemingly from some other boat in its new class. ??? Makes for a bit of a mess in the scoring if I don't change the PHRF rating back every time I change class entries. I end up having to keep a list of every boat and their PHRF and constantly check to make sure Sailwave hasn't changed the value on me through some edit I made to another field.

I've looked into rating files which doesn't seem to be aimed at PHRF. So, I'm lost and our biggest race is coming up Dec 4th with 100 boats soon to register. Any help would be apprecaited. Thanks.

Would it be possible to use `Fleet’ i.s.o. class for your assignments?

From dinghies, class is often associated with rating, which might explain the change in PHRF that you experience.

regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield, South Africa

···

----- Original Message -----

From:
dawn_umstot

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:59 PM

Subject: [sailwave] Competitor PHRF Ratings Changed Automatically by Sailwave

First off I’m new to sailboat racing/scoring but am self teaching myself from scoring spreadsheets provided by others and Sailwave help files/resources. Sailwave has been far superior to the spreadsheet option and I have solved all but one problem I can’t seem to find an answer to. I would apprecaite any advise from other Sailwave users.

I am given assinged PHRF handicap numbers for each individual boat registered for a race that they are assigned from PHRF. I enter these into the Competitor screen in the PHRF field. Then after all boats are registed the Race Chair tells me which class each boat is to be put in. I manually edit each competitor on the Competitor screen choosing their Class. The problem is as soon as I change any competitor’s Class, it either erases the PHRF rating I entered or assigns it a different PHRF number, seemingly from some other boat in its new class. ??? Makes for a bit of a mess in the scoring if I don’t change the PHRF rating back every time I change class entries. I end up having to keep a list of every boat and their PHRF and constantly check to make sure Sailwave hasn’t changed the value on me through some edit I made to another field.

I’ve looked into rating files which doesn’t seem to be aimed at PHRF. So, I’m lost and our biggest race is coming up Dec 4th with 100 boats soon to register. Any help would be apprecaited. Thanks.

If you use Division instead of Class that doesn’t happen - not sure why.

···

-----Original Message-----

From: dawn_umstot dawnumstot@hotmail.com

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 19:59

Subject: [sailwave] Competitor PHRF Ratings Changed Automatically by Sailwave

First off I’m new to sailboat racing/scoring but am self teaching myself from scoring spreadsheets provided by others and Sailwave help files/resources. Sailwave has been far superior to the spreadsheet option and I have solved all but one problem I can’t seem to find an answer to. I would apprecaite any advise from other Sailwave users.

I am given assinged PHRF handicap numbers for each individual boat registered for a race that they are assigned from PHRF. I enter these into the Competitor screen in the PHRF field. Then after all boats are registed the Race Chair tells me which class each boat is to be put in. I manually edit each competitor on the Competitor screen choosing their Class. The problem is as soon as I change any competitor’s Class, it either erases the PHRF rating I entered or assigns it a different PHRF number, seemingly from some other boat in its new class. ??? Makes for a bit of a mess in the scoring if I don’t change the PHRF rating back every time I change class entries. I end up having to keep a list of every boat and their PHRF and constantly check to make sure Sailwave hasn’t changed the value on me through some edit I made to another field.

I’ve looked into rating files which doesn’t seem to be aimed at PHRF. So, I’m lost and our biggest race is coming up Dec 4th with 100 boats soon to register. Any help would be apprecaited. Thanks.

Dawn,

The terms "class" and "fleet" don't mean what you think they mean (Malcolm had the right idea). This might be the difference between British English and American English or because Europeans and New Worlders use the terms differently. Or, maybe its just because Sailwave was originally written for one-design racing and the handicap stuff was an afterthought.

For my PHRF races I rename the Column "Class" to be "Boat Type" as that is what the term really means, in American-ese. I then assign boats to PHRF "Fleets" instead of classes. And then when you score you'll score by fleets instead of by classes. [If you change the name of the "Fleet" column to "Class" your html output will use class and the input box for each competitor will say "Class" but when you decide which group to score by it will still say "Fleet." That might be the best option for usability if you can remember to score "by Fleet."]

Art Engel

···

On 11/23/2010 11:39 PM, Malcolm Osborne wrote:

Would it be possible to use `Fleet' i.s.o. class for your assignments?

From dinghies, class is often associated with rating, which might explain the change in PHRF that you experience.

regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield, South Africa
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: dawn_umstot
   To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:59 PM
   Subject: [sailwave] Competitor PHRF Ratings Changed Automatically by Sailwave

   First off I'm new to sailboat racing/scoring but am self teaching myself from scoring spreadsheets provided by others and Sailwave help files/resources. Sailwave has been far superior to the spreadsheet option and I have solved all but one problem I can't seem to find an answer to. I would apprecaite any advise from other Sailwave users.

   I am given assinged PHRF handicap numbers for each individual boat registered for a race that they are assigned from PHRF. I enter these into the Competitor screen in the PHRF field. Then after all boats are registed the Race Chair tells me which class each boat is to be put in. I manually edit each competitor on the Competitor screen choosing their Class. The problem is as soon as I change any competitor's Class, it either erases the PHRF rating I entered or assigns it a different PHRF number, seemingly from some other boat in its new class. ??? Makes for a bit of a mess in the scoring if I don't change the PHRF rating back every time I change class entries. I end up having to keep a list of every boat and their PHRF and constantly check to make sure Sailwave hasn't changed the value on me through some edit I made to another field.

   I've looked into rating files which doesn't seem to be aimed at PHRF. So, I'm lost and our biggest race is coming up Dec 4th with 100 boats soon to register. Any help would be apprecaited. Thanks.

Exactly!

A Laser SB3 might be entered as that as Class, but for scoring purposes, might be in a `Sportboat’ fleet.

A “Sadler 46” might be in a `Heavy Cruiser’ fleet.

regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield, South Africa

···

----- Original Message -----

From:
Art Engel

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 1:35 AM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Competitor PHRF Ratings Changed Automatically by Sailwave

Dawn,

The terms “class” and “fleet” don’t mean what you think they mean
(Malcolm had the right idea). This might be the difference between
British English and American English or because Europeans and New
Worlders use the terms differently. Or, maybe its just because Sailwave
was originally written for one-design racing and the handicap stuff was
an afterthought.

For my PHRF races I rename the Column “Class” to be “Boat Type” as that
is what the term really means, in American-ese. I then assign boats to
PHRF “Fleets” instead of classes. And then when you score you’ll score
by fleets instead of by classes. [If you change the name of the “Fleet”
column to “Class” your html output will use class and the input box for
each competitor will say “Class” but when you decide which group to
score by it will still say “Fleet.” That might be the best option for
usability if you can remember to score “by Fleet.”]

Art Engel

On 11/23/2010 11:39 PM, Malcolm Osborne wrote:

Would it be possible to use `Fleet’ i.s.o. class for your assignments?

From dinghies, class is often associated with rating, which might explain the change in PHRF that you experience.

regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield, South Africa
----- Original Message -----
From: dawn_umstot
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:59 PM
Subject: [sailwave] Competitor PHRF Ratings Changed Automatically by Sailwave

First off I’m new to sailboat racing/scoring but am self teaching myself from scoring spreadsheets provided by others and Sailwave help files/resources. Sailwave has been far superior to the spreadsheet option and I have solved all but one problem I can’t seem to find an answer to. I would apprecaite any advise from other Sailwave users.

I am given assinged PHRF handicap numbers for each individual boat registered for a race that they are assigned from PHRF. I enter these into the Competitor screen in the PHRF field. Then after all boats are registed the Race Chair tells me which class each boat is to be put in. I manually edit each competitor on the Competitor screen choosing their Class. The problem is as soon as I change any competitor’s Class, it either erases the PHRF rating I entered or assigns it a different PHRF number, seemingly from some other boat in its new class. ??? Makes for a bit of a mess in the scoring if I don’t change the PHRF rating back every time I change class entries. I end up having to keep a list of every boat and their PHRF and constantly check to make sure Sailwave hasn’t changed the value on me through some edit I made to another field.

I’ve looked into rating files which doesn’t seem to be aimed at PHRF. So, I’m lost and our biggest race is coming up Dec 4th with 100 boats soon to register. Any help would be apprecaited. Thanks.

Class should be used in the meaning of “one-design”

So they can be used for handicap racing only if default ratings are used.

When there is customisation (each boat has a rating certificate) the only safe solution, if you are using classes to define the boat type, is to delete all rating files…

Phil

···

----- Original Message -----

From:
Malcolm Osborne

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 9:59 AM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Competitor PHRF Ratings Changed Automatically by Sailwave

Exactly!

A Laser SB3 might be entered as that as Class, but for scoring purposes, might be in a `Sportboat’ fleet.

A “Sadler 46” might be in a `Heavy Cruiser’ fleet.

regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield, South Africa

----- Original Message -----

From:
Art Engel

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 1:35 AM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Competitor PHRF Ratings Changed Automatically by Sailwave

Dawn,

The terms "class" and "fleet" don't mean what you think they mean
(Malcolm had the right idea). This might be the difference between
British English and American English or because Europeans and New
Worlders use the terms differently. Or, maybe its just because Sailwave
was originally written for one-design racing and the handicap stuff was

an afterthought.

For my PHRF races I rename the Column "Class" to be "Boat Type" as that
is what the term really means, in American-ese. I then assign boats to
PHRF "Fleets" instead of classes. And then when you score you'll score
by fleets instead of by classes. [If you change the name of the "Fleet"
column to "Class" your html output will use class and the input box for
each competitor will say "Class" but when you decide which group to
score by it will still say "Fleet." That might be the best option for
usability if you can remember to score "by Fleet."]

Art Engel

On 11/23/2010 11:39 PM, Malcolm Osborne wrote:
> Would it be possible to use `Fleet' i.s.o. class for your assignments?

From dinghies, class is often associated with rating, which might explain the change in PHRF that you experience.

regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield, South Africa
----- Original Message -----
From: dawn_umstot
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:59 PM
Subject: [sailwave] Competitor PHRF Ratings Changed Automatically by Sailwave

First off I’m new to sailboat racing/scoring but am self teaching myself from scoring spreadsheets provided by others and Sailwave help files/resources. Sailwave has been far superior to the spreadsheet option and I have solved all but one problem I can’t seem to find an answer to. I would apprecaite any advise from other Sailwave users.

I am given assinged PHRF handicap numbers for each individual boat registered for a race that they are assigned from PHRF. I enter these into the Competitor screen in the PHRF field. Then after all boats are registed the Race Chair tells me which class each boat is to be put in. I manually edit each competitor on the Competitor screen choosing their Class. The problem is as soon as I change any competitor’s Class, it either erases the PHRF rating I entered or assigns it a different PHRF number, seemingly from some other boat in its new class. ??? Makes for a bit of a mess in the scoring if I don’t change the PHRF rating back every time I change class entries. I end up having to keep a list of every boat and their PHRF and constantly check to make sure Sailwave hasn’t changed the value on me through some edit I made to another field.

I’ve looked into rating files which doesn’t seem to be aimed at PHRF. So, I’m lost and our biggest race is coming up Dec 4th with 100 boats soon to register. Any help would be apprecaited. Thanks.

It might help the confusion across the Atlantic if something about the difference between "class" and "fleet" were put into the help files. It took me a while to get my head around that.

Phil - Question: Are you saying that if you use a ratings file with a rating for say a "Cruiser 34.6" then if you chose "Cruiser 34.6" as the class Sailwave uses the rating from the ratings file but that if don't have a ratings file and you put the rating into the ratings box on the Edit Competitor page the Sailwave will NOT use the rating you entered?

I'm not sure exactly what point you are making. On the one hand, you seem to be confirming that "Class" means "boat-type" which would be the same as "What one-design type." On the other hand, you seem to be saying that you can use class to mean "group of boats that start together and race against each other" so long as you have a ratings file but not otherwise. I haven't used a ratings file myself and have always put in the ratings boat by boat but sorted boats by "Fleet" so I have no experience with that.

Just for clarity, I would say that in the US it is common to use the term "class" for boats that start together and race against each other (a race may have three PHRF or IRC classes). I believe Sailwave uses "Fleet" to mean the same thing. Class can also mean "one-design class" but which you mean must be taken from the context (the first meaning being the default). We would never refer to a single Beneteau 36.7 as being of the "Beneteau 36.7 class." We would say "boat type" or something comparable and the class would always be PHRF or IRC or Portsmouth, etc.

Art

···

On 11/25/2010 1:07 AM, Philippe DE TROY wrote:

Class should be used in the meaning of "one-design"
So they can be used for handicap racing only if default ratings are used.
When there is customisation (each boat has a rating certificate) the only safe solution, if you are using classes to define the boat type, is to delete all rating files...

Phil

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Malcolm Osborne
   To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 9:59 AM
   Subject: Re: [sailwave] Competitor PHRF Ratings Changed Automatically by Sailwave

   Exactly!

   A Laser SB3 might be entered as that as Class, but for scoring purposes, might be in a `Sportboat' fleet.
   A "Sadler 46" might be in a `Heavy Cruiser' fleet.

   regards,
   Malcolm Osborne
   Sedgefield, South Africa

     ----- Original Message -----
     From: Art Engel
     To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
     Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 1:35 AM
     Subject: Re: [sailwave] Competitor PHRF Ratings Changed Automatically by Sailwave

     Dawn,

     The terms "class" and "fleet" don't mean what you think they mean
     (Malcolm had the right idea). This might be the difference between
     British English and American English or because Europeans and New
     Worlders use the terms differently. Or, maybe its just because Sailwave
     was originally written for one-design racing and the handicap stuff was
     an afterthought.

     For my PHRF races I rename the Column "Class" to be "Boat Type" as that
     is what the term really means, in American-ese. I then assign boats to
     PHRF "Fleets" instead of classes. And then when you score you'll score
     by fleets instead of by classes. [If you change the name of the "Fleet"
     column to "Class" your html output will use class and the input box for
     each competitor will say "Class" but when you decide which group to
     score by it will still say "Fleet." That might be the best option for
     usability if you can remember to score "by Fleet."]

     Art Engel

You appear to be confusing the terms Class and Fleet. The class is the type of boat, the manufacturer model, they all carry the same class insignia per Rule G1.1(a). The Fleet is the group of boats that will sail and be scored together, they can be a one design class, or different boats using a handicap or rating system.

In sound like you are putting the fleet name in the class field. The class should be BENETEAU 44.7, C&C 33, CAL 20, FARR 30, OPTIMIST, SNIPE, THISTLE, VIPER 640 etc. A boats class does not change. The fleet name should reflect the grouping of boats that are starting together; PHRF-1, Portsmouth, IRC, OPTIMIST, SNIPE, THISTLE, VIPER 640, etc.

Sailwave looks up the rating of the class you enter in the rating tables. When you change the class it looks up the rating again. If there is no rating for say PHRF 1, a blank is returned.

There are several different rating files available on the Sailwave website; US Portsmouth, PHRF, etc. Failing that you can always enter the rating / handicap yourself or make your own rating file.

Sailwave User Guide is available from http://www.abyc.org/upload/Sailwave_ABYC_User_Guide.pdf

It defines some of the basic concepts that are used in Sailwave. If you don’t understand the terminology it is easy to get confused.

Fleet – A group of boats that will sail and be scored together, they can be a one design class, or different boats using a handicap or rating system. Portsmouth, PHRF, or IRC would be a fleet made up of several different classes of boats using a handicap or rating system. Conversely Naples Sabots, or Optimists may be broken up into several different fleets, A’s, B’s, C’s etc. or flights, Blue, Yellow, Purple, etc. or Divisions, Men and Women.

Class – The type of boat all carrying the same class insignia per Rule G1.1(a). Examples are Farr 40, 49er, Snipe, Cal 20, Naples Sabot, Optimist, etc.

Division – Generally used to further divides fleets. For example, Olympic 470 Men and Women often sail in a combined fleet, and are scored combined, with the division indicating Men and Women.

Flights – A flight is a competitor attribute that can change on a per race basis. It is most commonly used for Appendix LE Addendum C qualifying series such as used by the Optimist Class and Naples Sabot Class.

Mark Townsend s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com

···

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
From: dawnumstot@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 19:59:52 +0000
Subject: [sailwave] Competitor PHRF Ratings Changed Automatically by Sailwave

First off I’m new to sailboat racing/scoring but am self teaching myself from scoring spreadsheets provided by others and Sailwave help files/resources. Sailwave has been far superior to the spreadsheet option and I have solved all but one problem I can’t seem to find an answer to. I would apprecaite any advise from other Sailwave users.

I am given assinged PHRF handicap numbers for each individual boat registered for a race that they are assigned from PHRF. I enter these into the Competitor screen in the PHRF field. Then after all boats are registed the Race Chair tells me which class each boat is to be put in. I manually edit each competitor on the Competitor screen choosing their Class. The problem is as soon as I change any competitor’s Class, it either erases the PHRF rating I entered or assigns it a different PHRF number, seemingly from some other boat in its new class. ??? Makes for a bit of a mess in the scoring if I don’t change the PHRF rating back every time I change class entries. I end up having to keep a list of every boat and their PHRF and constantly check to make sure Sailwave hasn’t changed the value on me through some edit I made to another field.

I’ve looked into rating files which doesn’t seem to be aimed at PHRF. So, I’m lost and our biggest race is coming up Dec 4th with 100 boats soon to register. Any help would be apprecaited. Thanks.

You need to use Fleet and Class, division has a different meaning see below.

Fleet – A group of boats that will sail and be scored together, they can be a one design class, or different boats using a handicap or rating system. Portsmouth, PHRF, or IRC would be a fleet made up of several different classes of boats using a handicap or rating system. Conversely Naples Sabots, or Optimists may be broken up into several different fleets, A’s, B’s, C’s etc. or flights, Blue, Yellow, Purple, etc. or Divisions, Men and Women.

Class – The type of boat all carrying the same class insignia per Rule G1.1(a). Examples are Farr 40, 49er, Snipe, Cal 20, Naples Sabot, Optimist, etc.

Division – Generally used to further divides fleets. For example, Olympic 470 Men and Women often sail in a combined fleet, and are scored combined, with the division indicating Men and Women.

Flights – A flight is a competitor attribute that can change on a per race basis. It is most commonly used for Appendix LE Addendum C qualifying series such as used by the Optimist Class and Naples Sabot Class.

Sailwave User Guide is available from http://www.abyc.org/upload/Sailwave_ABYC_User_Guide.pdf

Mark Townsend s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com

···

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
From: penorrie@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:58:47 -0500
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Competitor PHRF Ratings Changed Automatically by Sailwave

If you use Division instead of Class that doesn’t happen - not sure why.

-----Original Message-----
From: dawn_umstot dawnumstot@hotmail.com
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 19:59
Subject: [sailwave] Competitor PHRF Ratings Changed Automatically by Sailwave

First off I’m new to sailboat racing/scoring but am self teaching myself from scoring spreadsheets provided by others and Sailwave help files/resources. Sailwave has been far superior to the spreadsheet option and I have solved all but one problem I can’t seem to find an answer to. I would apprecaite any advise from other Sailwave users.

I am given assinged PHRF handicap numbers for each individual boat registered for a race that they are assigned from PHRF. I enter these into the Competitor screen in the PHRF field. Then after all boats are registed the Race Chair tells me which class each boat is to be put in. I manually edit each competitor on the Competitor screen choosing their Class. The problem is as soon as I change any competitor’s Class, it either erases the PHRF rating I entered or assigns it a different PHRF number, seemingly from some other boat in its new class. ??? Makes for a bit of a mess in the scoring if I don’t change the PHRF rating back every time I change class entries. I end up having to keep a list of every boat and their PHRF and constantly check to make sure Sailwave hasn’t changed the value on me through some edit I made to another field.

I’ve looked into rating files which doesn’t seem to be aimed at PHRF. So, I’m lost and our biggest race is coming up Dec 4th with 100 boats soon to register. Any help would be apprecaited. Thanks.