Cox-Sprague scoring?

Imported from Yahoo
1

At the York Railway Institute Sailing Club (York, UK) we use what I
think could be described as a version of the Cox-Sprague scoring
system for a number of our races. It's a high-points system with
points depending on the number of boats participating in each race.

1st = Number of boats beaten plus one and plus bonus of fifteen;
2nd = Number of boats beaten plus one and plus bonus of ten;
3rd = Number of boats beaten plus one and plus bonus of five;
4th onwards = Number of boats beaten plus one.

So (for example) with six boats competing it's 21, 15, 9, 3, 2, 1;
with four it's 19, 13, 7, 1.

I cannot see a way of getting Sailwave to cope with this. Any bright
ideas? Any hope?

Hugh Brazier

2

Hi Hugh,

You can get close with the custom high point formula - the number of boats
beaten being equal to the number of competitors minus your position or in
Sailwave formula speak: c-r. What I need to do is extend the specification
to include more than one formula so you could then model your system using
this spec:-

c-p+15, c-p+10, c-p+5, c-p+1

The assumption being that the last formula would be used if none was
specified for a particular position.

It's a fairly simple tweak that I've thought about before but didn't know if
it'd be useful. I'll include it in the next release - 1.56 which is
probably a couple of weeks away.

I'll probably add a b variable for the number of boats beaten as well
because it's common in high point scoring systems.

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

-----Original Message-----
From: hugh2414 [mailto:hugh.brazier@btinternet.com]
Sent: 01 June 2004 11:59
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Cox-Sprague scoring?

At the York Railway Institute Sailing Club (York, UK) we use what I
think could be described as a version of the Cox-Sprague scoring
system for a number of our races. It's a high-points system with
points depending on the number of boats participating in each race.

1st = Number of boats beaten plus one and plus bonus of fifteen;
2nd = Number of boats beaten plus one and plus bonus of ten;
3rd = Number of boats beaten plus one and plus bonus of five;
4th onwards = Number of boats beaten plus one.

So (for example) with six boats competing it's 21, 15, 9, 3, 2, 1;
with four it's 19, 13, 7, 1.

I cannot see a way of getting Sailwave to cope with this. Any bright
ideas? Any hope?

Hugh Brazier

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3

Hugh & Colin,

I have tried for a short while to create a mathematical formula but did not
succeed during that time. Colin's generalisation would appear to be the way
forward.

FYI - I am using a high points system based on the following set up:-

  Points scored = (F - P) + 6 [where F = Number of finishers & P =
Position in race, i.e. last boat to finish scores 6 points]
  DNF, OCS, BFD score 5 points
  RAF scores 4 points
  DSQ, DNE score 2 points
  DNC scores 0(zero) points
This allows for boats that start to be 'rewarded' for their efforts and to
encourage people retire or not finish if they have broken a rule!.

Colin,
In your reply you mention another parameter B, to represent the number of
boats beaten. This is not strictly necessary as it can be calculated from
the parameters P (position in race) and F (number of finishers in race),
i.e. (F - P)

Kind regards,
Huw

···

-----Original Message-----
  From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
  Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 12:18 PM
  To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [sailwave] Cox-Sprague scoring?

  Hi Hugh,

  You can get close with the custom high point formula - the number of boats
  beaten being equal to the number of competitors minus your position or in
  Sailwave formula speak: c-r. What I need to do is extend the
specification
  to include more than one formula so you could then model your system using
  this spec:-

  c-p+15, c-p+10, c-p+5, c-p+1

  The assumption being that the last formula would be used if none was
  specified for a particular position.

  It's a fairly simple tweak that I've thought about before but didn't know
if
  it'd be useful. I'll include it in the next release - 1.56 which is
  probably a couple of weeks away.

  I'll probably add a b variable for the number of boats beaten as well
  because it's common in high point scoring systems.

  Regards,
  Colin
  www.sailwave.com

  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: hugh2414 [mailto:hugh.brazier@btinternet.com]
  > Sent: 01 June 2004 11:59
  > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  > Subject: [sailwave] Cox-Sprague scoring?
  >
  >
  > At the York Railway Institute Sailing Club (York, UK) we use what I
  > think could be described as a version of the Cox-Sprague scoring
  > system for a number of our races. It's a high-points system with
  > points depending on the number of boats participating in each race.
  >
  > 1st = Number of boats beaten plus one and plus bonus of fifteen;
  > 2nd = Number of boats beaten plus one and plus bonus of ten;
  > 3rd = Number of boats beaten plus one and plus bonus of five;
  > 4th onwards = Number of boats beaten plus one.
  >
  > So (for example) with six boats competing it's 21, 15, 9, 3, 2, 1;
  > with four it's 19, 13, 7, 1.
  >
  > I cannot see a way of getting Sailwave to cope with this. Any bright
  > ideas? Any hope?
  >
  > Hugh Brazier
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
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  > http://www.spampal.org/
  > http://www.sailwave.com/
  >
  > Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
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  > Yahoo! Groups Links
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  >
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  >
  >
  >
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4

Hi Hugh, and Huw P

What is not said in the tooltip for the scoring formula expression that that
there are tens of functions available to you. One being abs() - I need to
document them all. One you have abs you can invent expressions that can
differentiate between positive and nil or -ve numbers.

For example Hugh's high point bonus points for positions 1,2,3 can be
calulated with the expression 5*(4-p), which goes to 0 for position 4 and
negative for further positions.

The general formula x = (x+abs(x))/2 will map any positive number onto
itself and any nil or -ve number to 0.

So Hugh can solve his problem with this completely 'orrible formula:-

       f-p+1+(5*(4-p)+abs(5*(4-p)))/2

Depending on your definition of 'boats beaten', f - p may need to be be r -
p or s - p.

Not suggesting this is how things should be done in general - I'll still
simplify, but it may get you going... And Huw, it may help you too in the
short term.

Tested it and it seems to work fine, giving points of 19,13,7,1 for 4 boats.

Just cut and paste the above expresion into the custom high point formula
field and select that radio button.

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

···

-----Original Message-----
From: hugh2414 [mailto:hugh.brazier@btinternet.com]
Sent: 01 June 2004 11:59
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Cox-Sprague scoring?

At the York Railway Institute Sailing Club (York, UK) we use what I
think could be described as a version of the Cox-Sprague scoring
system for a number of our races. It's a high-points system with
points depending on the number of boats participating in each race.

1st = Number of boats beaten plus one and plus bonus of fifteen;
2nd = Number of boats beaten plus one and plus bonus of ten;
3rd = Number of boats beaten plus one and plus bonus of five;
4th onwards = Number of boats beaten plus one.

So (for example) with six boats competing it's 21, 15, 9, 3, 2, 1;
with four it's 19, 13, 7, 1.

I cannot see a way of getting Sailwave to cope with this. Any bright
ideas? Any hope?

Hugh Brazier

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5

Hi Huw,

In your reply you mention another parameter B, to represent the number of
boats beaten. This is not strictly necessary as it can be calculated from
the parameters P (position in race) and F (number of finishers in race),
i.e. (F - P)

I remember why I didn't add a variable for 'boats beaten' in the first place
now - it could also be interpreted as 'r-p' or even 's-p'.

So I agree that's it better not to add it as a specific variable.

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

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6

Colin -

Now, why didn't I think of that?!!!!

A simpler version would be nice. The easiest to understand would be a series
of comma-separated values in the "defined by a list of points" box. We would
then specify (s-p)+1+15, (s-p)+1+10, (s-p)+1+5, (s-p)+1 - if only because
when I retire as sailing secretary there would be at least some hope of my
successor understanding it!

I agree about not having a variable b (= boats beaten), as it is ambiguous.
For the record, as we use it, it means s-p.

Many thanks, though. We are all very impressed, and you have yourself
another Sailwave Partner (payment on the way).

Hugh
York Railway Institute Sailing Club

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 08 June 2004 09:42
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Cox-Sprague scoring?

Hi Hugh, and Huw P

What is not said in the tooltip for the scoring formula expression that that
there are tens of functions available to you. One being abs() - I need to
document them all. One you have abs you can invent expressions that can
differentiate between positive and nil or -ve numbers.

For example Hugh's high point bonus points for positions 1,2,3 can be
calulated with the expression 5*(4-p), which goes to 0 for position 4 and
negative for further positions.

The general formula x = (x+abs(x))/2 will map any positive number onto
itself and any nil or -ve number to 0.

So Hugh can solve his problem with this completely 'orrible formula:-

       f-p+1+(5*(4-p)+abs(5*(4-p)))/2

Depending on your definition of 'boats beaten', f - p may need to be be r -
p or s - p.

Not suggesting this is how things should be done in general - I'll still
simplify, but it may get you going... And Huw, it may help you too in the
short term.

Tested it and it seems to work fine, giving points of 19,13,7,1 for 4 boats.

Just cut and paste the above expresion into the custom high point formula
field and select that radio button.

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

-----Original Message-----
From: hugh2414 [mailto:hugh.brazier@btinternet.com]
Sent: 01 June 2004 11:59
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Cox-Sprague scoring?

At the York Railway Institute Sailing Club (York, UK) we use what I
think could be described as a version of the Cox-Sprague scoring
system for a number of our races. It's a high-points system with
points depending on the number of boats participating in each race.

1st = Number of boats beaten plus one and plus bonus of fifteen;
2nd = Number of boats beaten plus one and plus bonus of ten;
3rd = Number of boats beaten plus one and plus bonus of five;
4th onwards = Number of boats beaten plus one.

So (for example) with six boats competing it's 21, 15, 9, 3, 2, 1;
with four it's 19, 13, 7, 1.

I cannot see a way of getting Sailwave to cope with this. Any bright
ideas? Any hope?

Hugh Brazier

---
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            ADVERTISEMENT

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7

Hi Hugh,

A simpler version would be nice. The easiest to understand would
be a series of comma-separated values in the "defined by a list of
points" box.

Or a list of expressions in the formula field; they both merge to the become
the same thing in fact...

Many thanks, though. We are all very impressed, and you have yourself
another Sailwave Partner (payment on the way).

Thanks very much for your support; it is appreciated.

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

···

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8

Has anyone used Sailwave to score a cruising class? I am working on a blue
water race that has a cruising class and their finish time is calculated as
follows:

PHRF-Corrected-time + ( IN-GEAR-TIME * 0.40 * SQRT(LWL) )

Therefore we would need to store IN-GEAR-TIME and LWL for each boat and be
able to use it in the rating calculation.

Thanks

Mark Townsend

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]