Discard and Qualification profiles

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1

Does anyone else find the setting up of Discard and Qualification profiles confusing? All those 0,0,0,1,1,1 thingamabobs. Then the test button showing ten races when you've only six races in your series. The word 'after' in the Qualification test also confuses. I always dread setting up these profiles. Perhaps its just me being digiphobic, but I would prefer an interrogation system asking 'Number of races in Series?', Number of Discards allowed?', Number of Races needed to Qualify?' to each of which you simply insert a number into a box and Sailwave does the rest. Anything on the cards, Colin?

Regards
Keith

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

2

The sailing instructions for long series racing at Beverly Yacht Club (see
Section 8.2 on pages 8 and 9 in http://tinyurl.com/n8k8) require me to enter
the dreaded 0,0,0,1,1,1,2,2,2...for qualification, throwouts, etc. If there
were less flexibility, it wouldn't work for me. In a shorter regatta, it
would be easier to specify one number as you suggest, but in a long season,
with an unknown number of racers or races, this way works.
-Ian Duff.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Lomax [mailto:keithlomax@dsl.pipex.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 23 September, 2003 6:21 PM
To: Sailwave
Subject: [sailwave] Discard and Qualification profiles

Does anyone else find the setting up of Discard and Qualification profiles
confusing? All those 0,0,0,1,1,1 thingamabobs. Then the test button showing
ten races when you've only six races in your series. The word 'after' in the
Qualification test also confuses. I always dread setting up these profiles.
Perhaps its just me being digiphobic, but I would prefer an interrogation
system asking 'Number of races in Series?', Number of Discards allowed?',
Number of Races needed to Qualify?' to each of which you simply insert a
number into a box and Sailwave does the rest. Anything on the cards, Colin?

Regards
Keith

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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3

What I have found is that the Qualification Profile, unlike the discard
profile, is not useful until the series is nearly over. Unless I am using it
completely incorrectly, it seems to disqualify boats that miss the early
part of the series but race all of the last races. This is a particular
problem for us because we can have anywhere from 1 to 5 races on a given day
in the series.

-Bill Hunt
BHYC

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Duff [mailto:iduff@rcn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 8:59 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Discard and Qualification profiles

The sailing instructions for long series racing at Beverly Yacht Club (see
Section 8.2 on pages 8 and 9 in http://tinyurl.com/n8k8) require me to enter
the dreaded 0,0,0,1,1,1,2,2,2...for qualification, throwouts, etc. If there
were less flexibility, it wouldn't work for me. In a shorter regatta, it
would be easier to specify one number as you suggest, but in a long season,
with an unknown number of racers or races, this way works.
-Ian Duff.
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Lomax [mailto:keithlomax@dsl.pipex.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 23 September, 2003 6:21 PM
To: Sailwave
Subject: [sailwave] Discard and Qualification profiles

Does anyone else find the setting up of Discard and Qualification profiles
confusing? All those 0,0,0,1,1,1 thingamabobs. Then the test button showing
ten races when you've only six races in your series. The word 'after' in the
Qualification test also confuses. I always dread setting up these profiles.
Perhaps its just me being digiphobic, but I would prefer an interrogation
system asking 'Number of races in Series?', Number of Discards allowed?',
Number of Races needed to Qualify?' to each of which you simply insert a
number into a box and Sailwave does the rest. Anything on the cards, Colin?

Regards
Keith

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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4

Hi Bill,

What I have found is that the Qualification Profile, unlike the discard
profile, is not useful until the series is nearly over. Unless I
am using it
completely incorrectly, it seems to disqualify boats that miss the early
part of the series but race all of the last races. This is a particular
problem for us because we can have anywhere from 1 to 5 races on
a given day
in the series.

Don't forget that the discard profile specifies the number of races to
discard after 1,2,3,... races have been sailed and the qualification profile
specifies the number of races needed to qualify after 1,2,3... races have
been sailed. They are reversed in a sense, which is unfortunate but hard to
reengineer retrospectively WRT older series being auto upgraded.

So for example if you have a series of 12 races and the SIs allow 1 discard
after 8 races have been sailed and 2 discards after 12 races have been
sailed (like the worlds) your discard profile would look like this:-

0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,2

If the SIs further said that competitors must sail at least 50% (rounded) of
the races sailed to qualify, your qualification profile would look like
this:-

1,1,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,6

There are many instances when the discard profile can be reduced to a single
figure as Keith requests but it doesn't cover the general rule that I have
to deal with. I'll add some wizards to *set* the profiles based on simple
common scenarios rather then simplify the concept itself; which needs the
flexibility it currently has.

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

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5

Thanks Colin,

I understand what you are saying, but here is my problem: If I have a 24
race series and the rules say you have to race in 1/2 the races in order to
qualify, a boat that misses the first 12 races will not show as a qualifier
until the last race. If we allow 1/2 the races to be dropped, that
competitor could have a perfect record of 1st place finishes and will win
the entire series but will be shown as DNQ even with 22 races run. This
prevents the competitors from seeing the actual standings.

Am I missing something?

-Bill

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 11:54 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Discard and Qualification profiles

Hi Bill,

What I have found is that the Qualification Profile, unlike the discard
profile, is not useful until the series is nearly over. Unless I
am using it
completely incorrectly, it seems to disqualify boats that miss the early
part of the series but race all of the last races. This is a particular
problem for us because we can have anywhere from 1 to 5 races on
a given day
in the series.

Don't forget that the discard profile specifies the number of races to
discard after 1,2,3,... races have been sailed and the qualification profile
specifies the number of races needed to qualify after 1,2,3... races have
been sailed. They are reversed in a sense, which is unfortunate but hard to
reengineer retrospectively WRT older series being auto upgraded.

So for example if you have a series of 12 races and the SIs allow 1 discard
after 8 races have been sailed and 2 discards after 12 races have been
sailed (like the worlds) your discard profile would look like this:-

0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,2

If the SIs further said that competitors must sail at least 50% (rounded) of
the races sailed to qualify, your qualification profile would look like
this:-

1,1,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,6

There are many instances when the discard profile can be reduced to a single
figure as Keith requests but it doesn't cover the general rule that I have
to deal with. I'll add some wizards to *set* the profiles based on simple
common scenarios rather then simplify the concept itself; which needs the
flexibility it currently has.

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

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6

I understand what you are saying, but here is my problem: If I have a 24
race series and the rules say you have to race in 1/2 the races
in order to
qualify, a boat that misses the first 12 races will not show as a
qualifier
until the last race. If we allow 1/2 the races to be dropped, that
competitor could have a perfect record of 1st place finishes and will win
the entire series but will be shown as DNQ even with 22 races run. This
prevents the competitors from seeing the actual standings.

Am I missing something?

No, I think it's correct: if the SI's say that a competitor needs to sail in
half the races and they've only sailed in 10 out of 22, they do not
qualify - the next two races may be abandoned. But I agree it does mean
that you can't see progress.

You could set a q profile like this:-

0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,12

And adjust it every time you abandon a race, but that's a hassle.

Alternatively what if the DNQ cell also showed points?

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

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7

At Lancing SC, by popular request, we show the status in any series as what
would occur if all subsequent races were abandoned, so the results dogsbody
(guess who) has regularly to update the discard profile anyway. However I
wouldn't take that approach during a short regatta.
        Mike

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 24 September 2003 18:36
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Discard and Qualification profiles

I understand what you are saying, but here is my problem: If I have a 24
race series and the rules say you have to race in 1/2 the races
in order to
qualify, a boat that misses the first 12 races will not show as a
qualifier
until the last race. If we allow 1/2 the races to be dropped, that
competitor could have a perfect record of 1st place finishes and will win
the entire series but will be shown as DNQ even with 22 races run. This
prevents the competitors from seeing the actual standings.

Am I missing something?

No, I think it's correct: if the SI's say that a competitor needs to sail in
half the races and they've only sailed in 10 out of 22, they do not
qualify - the next two races may be abandoned. But I agree it does mean
that you can't see progress.

You could set a q profile like this:-

0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,12

And adjust it every time you abandon a race, but that's a hassle.

Alternatively what if the DNQ cell also showed points?

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

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8

Hi Mike,

At Lancing SC, by popular request, we show the status in any
series as what
would occur if all subsequent races were abandoned, so the
results dogsbody
(guess who) has regularly to update the discard profile anyway. However I
wouldn't take that approach during a short regatta.
        Mike

I've been thinking about that and I can't see why you'd need to change the
profile all the time; as a multi-valued thingy it always shows what would
happen if no more races were sailed, if it's set up appropriately. Can you
enlighten me...?

PS: Keith, some cosmetic changes made to discard profile testing in the
uploaded 1.48.

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

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9

Colin
I obviously need to get into this a bit more to fully understand
'multi-valued thingies'. Leave it with me for a while and I'll get back to
you if I get stuck!
Thanks
        Mike

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 25 September 2003 08:50
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Discard and Qualification profiles

Hi Mike,

At Lancing SC, by popular request, we show the status in any
series as what
would occur if all subsequent races were abandoned, so the
results dogsbody
(guess who) has regularly to update the discard profile anyway. However I
wouldn't take that approach during a short regatta.
        Mike

I've been thinking about that and I can't see why you'd need to change the
profile all the time; as a multi-valued thingy it always shows what would
happen if no more races were sailed, if it's set up appropriately. Can you
enlighten me...?

PS: Keith, some cosmetic changes made to discard profile testing in the
uploaded 1.48.

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

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