Discard Total not a Profile

Attached is the .blw for the first round of a 2 round fun summer series.

Following is the Scoring and throw out rules from the SI.

1.1
RACES
TO COUNT AND MINIMUM REQUIRED: The
series will consist of the 22 scheduled races.
To qualify for inclusion in the final series results a boat shall
compete in (i.e., start the race) at least 14 of the races. Each round consists of 11 races. To qualify
for inclusion in each round results, a boat shall compete in (i.e., start the
race) at least 7 of the races. RACE
SCORES: For series and round scoring, each boat scores 1 point for
participating (starting) and 1 point for each boat that it beats. Boats that do
not start or compete in that race (DNS or DNC) will not be scored.

1.2
SERIES
SCORES: The series score for each boat
will be the total points it accumulates for its best 14 race results. The qualified
boat with the highest series score is the winner, and others are ranked accordingly.

1.3
ROUND SCORES; The round score for each boat will be
the total points it accumulates for its best 7 race results. The qualified boat
with the highest round score is the winner, and other are ranked accordingly.

1.4
TIES
AND OTHER RULES: Race ties will be
broken using rule A7. Series ties will be broken using rule A8.1. Rules A1, A3, A5, A6, A10 and A11 also apply.

There is no throw profile other than stated.

7 out of 11 races need to be completed in order to get the 4 throw outs in the rounds.

14 out of the 22 races need to be completed in order for the overall series.

I think I need an expression but I’m having difficulty understanding how to write it.

I looked at the expressions in the references but the examples don’t really say what they do so it’s a bit confusing

I’m not really sure how to go about writing the expression. Any Suggestions?

···

Hi,

  My initial impression is that this will have to be done using 3

Sailwave files; one for each round and one for the series. But you
can create the series file from a copy of round 1 and import/merge
the round 2 data. Sailwave does not currently have the facility to
select which races in a Sailwave.BLW are to be used in scoring.
If this facility was available it would be possible to score, what
I see as in effect 3 series, easily.

  To create a Qualification profile you will need to make sure the

option is checked in Setup | User interface. Once this is done you
set the number of races to qualify in the same way as discard
profile on the Series tab of Scoring system.

  I used to have the same thing where the club had a Summer

Wednesday Evening series but those up to he longest day was one
sub-series [your round 1], those after the longest day until end
of August was another sub-series [your round 2] and all races from
both sub-series was the Summer Wednesday Evening Series.

  From  the portion of the SI's you posted the throwouts and

qualification requirements do not allow for any races being not
run. So it is possible that not enough races will be held to meet
both requirements. Might be better in future to write so that the
Qualification & throwout profiles are a percentage of the
number of races actually run.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Huw

···

On 26/04/2016 19:08, [sailwave] wrote:

d.trude@yahoo.com

            Attached is the .blw for the first round of a 2

round fun summer series.

            Following is the Scoring and throw out rules from

the SI.

1.1
RACES
TO COUNT AND MINIMUM REQUIRED: The
series will consist of the 22 scheduled races.
To qualify for inclusion in the final series results a
boat shall
compete in (i.e., start the race) at least 14 of the
races. Each round consists of 11 races. To qualify
for inclusion in each round results, a boat shall
compete in (i.e., start the
race) at least 7 of the races. RACE
SCORES: For series and round scoring, each boat scores
1 point for
participating (starting) and 1 point for each boat that
it beats. Boats that do
not start or compete in that race (DNS or DNC) will not
be scored.

1.2
SERIES
SCORES: The series score for each boat
will be the total points it accumulates for its best 14
race results. The qualified
boat with the highest series score is the winner, and
others are ranked accordingly.

1.3
ROUND SCORES; The round score for
each boat will be
the total points it accumulates for its best 7 race
results. The qualified boat
with the highest round score is the winner, and other
are ranked accordingly.

1.4
TIES
AND OTHER RULES: Race ties will be
broken using rule A7. Series ties will be broken using
rule A8.1. Rules A1, A3, A5, A6, A10 and A11 also
apply.

            There

is no throw profile other than stated.

            7 out of 11 races

need to be completed in order to get the 4 throw outs in
the rounds.

            14 out of the 22

races need to be completed in order for the overall
series.

            I think I need an expression but I'm

having difficulty understanding how to write it.

            I

looked at the expressions in the references but the
examples don’t really say what they do so it’s a bit
confusing

            I'm

not really sure how to go about writing the expression.
Any Suggestions?


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Thanks, I checked the Qualification Profile in the User Interface and now see it.

I could find nothing in the help files and the little pop up does not stay long enough to read it or copy it into a txt file.

Where can I read about the Qualification Profile? I’ve never had to use one before.

I have a series set up for round 1 and 2 at 11 races each.

Round 1 is race 1 to 11 and Round 2 is race 12 to 22.

I have been informed that I can use the “Merge in another sailwave series” function to create the Overall series. Of course this will all be on the fly as I am the only one in the club working with SW.

Hi

  The following expression pasted in the Qualification profile

produces a number of races for qualification based on the number
of races sailed - note not number in series, i.e ,
scheduled

(s*7/11)+0.5

  1 races needed to qualify when 1 sailed.
  1 races needed to qualify when 2 sailed.
  2 races needed to qualify when 3 sailed.
  3 races needed to qualify when 4 sailed.
  3 races needed to qualify when 5 sailed.
  4 races needed to qualify when 6 sailed.
  4 races needed to qualify when 7 sailed.
  5 races needed to qualify when 8 sailed.
  6 races needed to qualify when 9 sailed.
  6 races needed to qualify when 10 sailed.
  7 races needed to qualify when 11 sailed.

Information on expression construction for discard &

qualification profiles can be found at
To merge in results from another Sailwave select File |Merge in
another Sailwave series. Then select the first option “”, followed by checking
the fields that must match to merge a competitor.
Hope this helps,
Kind regards,
Huw

···

http://www.sailwave.com/discard-profile

  •  Merge/match
    

competitors and append races/results*

  On 27/04/2016 19:27, [sailwave] wrote:
          Thanks, I checked the Qualification Profile in the User

Interface and now see it.

            I could find nothing in the help files and the little

pop up does not stay long enough to read it or copy it
into a txt file.

            Where can I read about the Qualification Profile?

I’ve never had to use one before.

            I have a series set up for round 1 and 2 at 11 races

each.

            Round 1 is race 1 to 11 and Round 2 is race  12 to
            I have been informed that I can use the "Merge in

another sailwave series" function to create the Overall
series. Of course this will all be on the fly as I am
the only one in the club working with SW.


Virus-free. www.avast.comd.trude@yahoo.com

A few comments on the scoring system (not how to implement in Sailwave,
which I'm not too sure about). I think it might be improved.

1. A simple high point system is as biased as the Low Point System, just
in the opposite direction. I'd recommend one of the many alternative
high point systems, any of which would be an improvement in terms of
fairness.

2. The quoted SIs (presumably also repeated in the NOR since that is
what rule J1.2(13) requires) say "to qualify for inclusion in final
series results." If a boat is not included in the results then
presumably it isn't scored (that is the only interpretation I can think
of). So, that means that at the end of the series you would rescore all
the races with the non-qualifying excluded. I suspect that is NOT what
you really want to do. You probably wanted to say "shall not qualify for
trophies" rather "shall not qualify to be scored in the results" (this
is a pretty common concept). With rescoring after the last race, boats
cannot really get a true view of how they stand in series scoring until
after the last race. Even if it's fair (see below) it isn't very nice
for competitors.

I think that rescoring has potential problems in terms of fairness. It
is possible for a boat to finish 3rd in an 8-boat race but get only 1
point because the boats behind in that race don't qualify and so are
excluded in the rescoring. As a general principle, I strongly favor any
scoring system that reflects what actually happened in a race including
all the boats that "participated" regardless of whether they qualify for
the series trophies.

3. The SIs exclude boats that don't start. By the definition, OCS boats
don't start though they do finish (a boat can finish without starting).
I don't think that is a good policy. I'd be inclined to include all
boats that come to the starting area. A boat that comes to the starting
area but doesn't cross the line and attempt to start is pretty rare
while OCS boats can be relatively common (depending on how the RC
notifies boats when they are OCS). In terms of fairness, I'd use "came
to the starting area" as easy for the RC to implement yet having decent
fairness. Or, use "starters plus OCS" as I cannot think of any boats
that would be ones you want to include that wouldn't be included in that
definition.

4. Someone already mentioned the obvious problem of keying "qualify" to
a fixed number of races rather than a percentage. I agree.

5. I would never use "best x races" as that effectively eliminates one
discard for each race not held, usually due to weather (too much or too
little). You can easily have no discards when multiple races aren't
completed due to weather or for other reasons. Instead, I'd go with the
standard "one discard after x races, two discards after Y races, etc."

6. I'm not sure any scoring program can handle boats "shall not be
scored." I would suggest a better policy is "shall be scored zero
points" since that fundamentally means the same thing.

7. SI 1.4 basically says "use Appendix A to score" but that is exactly
what rule 90.3(a) says. So, I'd simply delete SI 1.4 - in general it is
not considered a good policy to repeat in the SIs the default provisions
of the racing rules that apply regardless.

Art

···

On 4/26/2016 11:08 AM, d.trude@yahoo.com [sailwave] wrote:

Attached is the .blw for the first round of a 2 round fun summer
series.

Following is the Scoring and throw out rules from the SI.

1.1 RACES TO COUNT AND MINIMUM REQUIRED: The series will
consist of the 22 scheduled races. To qualify for inclusion in the
final series results a boat shall compete in (i.e., start the race)
at least 14 of the races. Each round consists of 11 races. To
qualify for inclusion in each round results, a boat shall compete in
(i.e., start the race) at least 7 of the races. RACE SCORES: For
series and round scoring, each boat scores 1 point for participating
(starting) and 1 point for each boat that it beats. Boats that do not
start or compete in that race (DNS or DNC) will not be scored. 1.2
SERIES SCORES: The series score for each boat will be the total
points it accumulates for its best 14 race results. The qualified
boat with the highest series score is the winner, and others are
ranked accordingly. 1.3 ROUND SCORES; The round score for each
boat will be the total points it accumulates for its best 7 race
results. The qualified boat with the highest round score is the
winner, and other are ranked accordingly.

1.4 TIES AND OTHER RULES: Race ties will be broken using rule
A7. Series ties will be broken using rule A8.1. Rules A1, A3, A5,
A6, A10 and A11 also apply.

There is no throw profile other than stated. 7 out of 11 races need
to be completed in order to get the 4 throw outs in the rounds.

14 out of the 22 races need to be completed in order for the overall
series. I think I need an expression but I'm having difficulty
understanding how to write it. I looked at the expressions in the
references but the examples don't really say what they do so it's a
bit confusing I'm not really sure how to go about writing the
expression. Any Suggestions?

Thanks again, I’m not a fan of high point but the older crowd like is because it awards participation.
and the silly rules are left over from the same crowd. I wanted to get rid of all the silliness and have straight forward fun stuff. You make if fun for the racers, but it should be fun for the volunteers to run is what I say. They had an automated spread sheet that the volunteers hated because it broke all the time. So I got involved and here I am.

The Qualification of any 7 races out of the 11 total is for the 1st or 2nd round only. If someone does not do 7 races, their score is still counted for the individual race. They are not removed when scoring those who qualify. It is a bunch of dumb stuff. But the Summer Wednesday Races are to go out and have fun and drink beer afterwards.

The equation (s*7/11)+0.5 when 7 races are sailed yields a number of 4.95.
What is that supposed to mean?

I am getting confused

However, that is not what the SIs say. They say that boats that don't
qualify shall not be included in the results. That means you would score
without those boats included and that will result in different scores
for series (mini or entire) purposes.

Art

PS - By the way, the etiquette is to include the message you are
responding to so that your message makes sense. Not doing so is probably
considered a tiny bit rude. :slight_smile:

···

On 4/27/2016 4:44 PM, d.trude@yahoo.com [sailwave] wrote:

If someone does not do 7 races, their score is still counted for the
individual race. They are not removed when scoring those who
qualify.

Hi,

In response to your confusion:

The equation _ (s7/11)+0.5 when 7
races are sailed yields a number of 4.95.
_ * What is that supposed to
mean?

  You have assumed 's' means 7 the number of races to qualify but

it does not mean that. The value of ‘s’ stores the number of races
in the series that have been completed. So, the value of ‘s’
changes as the number of races completed increases. That is ‘s’ is
1 after one race has been completed, 2 after 2 races completed all
the way up to 11 if all scheduled races are completed. Therefore
the result of the qualification profile ‘(s*7/11)+0.5’ changes
according to the following list:

                          1 race needed to qualify when 1 race

sailed.
1 race needed to qualify when 2 races
sailed.
2 races needed to qualify when 3 races
sailed.
3 races needed to qualify when 4 races
sailed.
3 races needed to qualify when 5 races
sailed.
4 races needed to qualify when 6races
sailed.
4 races needed to qualify when 7 races
sailed.
5 races needed to qualify when 8 races
sailed.
6 races needed to qualify when 9 races
sailed.
6 races needed to qualify when 10 races
sailed.
7 races needed to qualify when 11 races
sailed.

Note - Sailwave rounds the result of the profile equation down to

the nearest integer value.

Hope this additional explanation helps your understanding.

Kind regards,

Huw
···

On 28/04/2016 00:44, [sailwave] wrote:

d.trude@yahoo.com

          Thanks again, I'm not a fan of high point but the older

crowd like is because it awards participation.
and the silly rules are left over from the same crowd. I
wanted to get rid of all the silliness and have straight
forward fun stuff. You make if fun for the racers, but it
should be fun for the volunteers to run is what I say.
They had an automated spread sheet that the volunteers
hated because it broke all the time. So I got involved and
here I am.

          The Qualification of any 7 races out of the 11 total is

for the 1st or 2nd round only. If someone does not do 7
races, their score is still counted for the individual
race. They are not removed when scoring those who qualify.
It is a bunch of dumb stuff. But the Summer Wednesday
Races are to go out and have fun and drink beer
afterwards.

          The equation                 (s*7/11)+0.5 when 7

races are sailed yields a number of 4.95.

            What is that supposed to mean?



            I am getting con fused


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