A skipper switching to another class of boat within a handicap fleet
within a given series, and combining the results of the two boats
under the one skipper?
There is pressure to do this at my club. What say the racing/scoring
community?
I don't see that Sailwave supports this in any elegant way, short of
forcing rankings, which nukes time/corrected time output. Please point
the way if I'm wrong.
Thanks,
Chip Stratton
Scorer
Windycrest Sailing Club
Lancing SC does not allow this - our rule is 'different type of boat = different series entry', the only exception being in the Laser class racing (Laser1, Radial and 4.7) where you can use a smaller sail with your usual (larger sail) handicap for the same series entry. Interestingly, the crew (as opposed to helm) can be changed for the same series entry, but not the helm - something for another discussion, perhaps :-\
Mike Croker
Lancing SC
Sussex
Chip Stratton wrote:
A skipper switching to another class of boat within a handicap fleet within a given series, and combining the results of the two boats under the one skipper?
There is pressure to do this at my club. What say the racing/scoring community?
I don't see that Sailwave supports this in any elegant way, short of forcing rankings, which nukes time/corrected time output. Please point the way if I'm wrong.
Thanks,
Chip Stratton
Scorer
Windycrest Sailing Club-!- http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/ -!- http://www.sailing.org/ -!- http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
Latest versions of sailwave can be downloaded from the 'files' section at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailwave/Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links
Hi Chip,
At Mumbles we do not allow it either. Each boat has an entry in the series
rather than each competitor, so if a competitor sails two boats, they have
to live with two entries. Lots of clubs do allow it though (based on the
queries on this board). Have setup a race specific rating as per John's
post (Edit+Result) you can view/publish them using the
View+ShowResultsCellsAs+RaceSpecificRatings menu. They are also shown in
the rating column of the individual race tables when publishing results.
Colin J
www.sailwave.com
-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of Mike Croker
Sent: 11 July 2005 09:25
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Do other clubs allow this, and does Sailwave
facilitate it?Lancing SC does not allow this - our rule is 'different type of boat =
different series entry', the only exception being in the Laser class
racing (Laser1, Radial and 4.7) where you can use a smaller sail with
your usual (larger sail) handicap for the same series entry.
Interestingly, the crew (as opposed to helm) can be changed for the same
series entry, but not the helm - something for another discussion,
perhaps :-\Mike Croker
Lancing SC
SussexChip Stratton wrote:
>A skipper switching to another class of boat within a handicap fleet
>within a given series, and combining the results of the two boats
>under the one skipper?
>
>There is pressure to do this at my club. What say the racing/scoring
>community?
>
>I don't see that Sailwave supports this in any elegant way, short of
>forcing rankings, which nukes time/corrected time output. Please point
>the way if I'm wrong.
>
>Thanks,
>Chip Stratton
>Scorer
>Windycrest Sailing Club
>
>
>
>
>-!- http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/ -!-
http://www.sailing.org/ -!- http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
>
>Latest versions of sailwave can be downloaded from the 'files' section at
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailwave/
>
>Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
>sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-!- http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/ -!- http://www.sailing.org/
-!- http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-Latest versions of sailwave can be downloaded from the 'files' section at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailwave/Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.11/45 - Release Date: 09/07/2005
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.11/45 - Release Date: 09/07/2005
We do it at my club (in fact, I do it frequently, partly to show folks that it's not the boat that
makes you fast). I'm a rookie sailwave user...and build each race/r individually. I then export
the results into another race, using name and results only as the criteria, for the cumulative
scoring for the series. It's cumbersome for me, but then again, we're not a big club (maybe fifty
boats over 40 races a year).
dwain
commodore, Creve Coeur Sailing Association
St. Louis, MO
--- Chip Stratton <cstrat@swbell.net> wrote:
A skipper switching to another class of boat within a handicap fleet
within a given series, and combining the results of the two boats
under the one skipper?There is pressure to do this at my club. What say the racing/scoring
community?I don't see that Sailwave supports this in any elegant way, short of
forcing rankings, which nukes time/corrected time output. Please point
the way if I'm wrong.Thanks,
Chip Stratton
Scorer
Windycrest Sailing Club-!- http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/ -!- http://www.sailing.org/ -!- http://www.sailwave.com/
-!-Latest versions of sailwave can be downloaded from the 'files' section at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailwave/Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
We do not allow this as it could allow people to swap boats for one with a more favourable handicap for the given conditions.
E.g. Some who might normally sail a Phantom in lighter winds but switches to a Laser in heavier winds. The club policy is if you sail in 2 different classes of boat in a handicap series you get 2 sets of results.
Swapping between boats withing the same class is allowed so if you buy a new boat or even just a new sail that is OK.
Paul
From: Dwain <cbnspoppa@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Do other clubs allow this, and does Sailwave facilitate it?
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 04:23:16 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Originating-IP: 66.163.169.77
X-Sender: cbnspoppa@yahoo.com
Received: from mc2-f11.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.18]) by imc3-s35.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 11 Jul 2005 04:32:50 -0700
Received: from n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.50]) by mc2-f11.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 11 Jul 2005 04:25:34 -0700
Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2005 11:23:18 -0000
Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul 2005 11:23:18 -0000
Received: (qmail 11194 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2005 11:23:16 -0000
Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Jul 2005 11:23:16 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO web80104.mail.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.77) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2005 11:23:16 -0000
Received: (qmail 18308 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jul 2005 11:23:16 -0000
Received: from [68.91.208.171] by web80104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 11 Jul 2005 04:23:16 PDT
X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jHW2yP61TVMf9gIV2GhflBY7dO227BeSD0=
Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com;b=D4N91nhcVx7bS1OmjneNk2U8hu86+k0+Ud5MTSxfYiU0A+d/uqhneLYpsdqR2H6o5pC9LZwSFVpzWiJBjaLJMca25ofGgh4WfSRvUw0qo5H66+tb7+bLcpw1rLwE+tfJ;
X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email
X-Apparently-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0
X-Yahoo-Profile: cbnspoppa
Mailing-List: list sailwave@yahoogroups.com; contact sailwave-owner@yahoogroups.com
Delivered-To: mailing list sailwave@yahoogroups.com
List-Id: <sailwave.yahoogroups.com>
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Return-Path: sentto-3086530-4744-1121080998-laser75265=hotmail.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2005 11:25:34.0696 (UTC) FILETIME=[41393E80:01C5860B]We do it at my club (in fact, I do it frequently, partly to show folks that it's not the boat that
makes you fast). I'm a rookie sailwave user...and build each race/r individually. I then export
the results into another race, using name and results only as the criteria, for the cumulative
scoring for the series. It's cumbersome for me, but then again, we're not a big club (maybe fifty
boats over 40 races a year).dwain
commodore, Creve Coeur Sailing Association
St. Louis, MO--- Chip Stratton <cstrat@swbell.net> wrote:
> A skipper switching to another class of boat within a handicap fleet
> within a given series, and combining the results of the two boats
> under the one skipper?
>
> There is pressure to do this at my club. What say the racing/scoring
> community?
>
> I don't see that Sailwave supports this in any elegant way, short of
> forcing rankings, which nukes time/corrected time output. Please point
> the way if I'm wrong.
>
> Thanks,
> Chip Stratton
> Scorer
> Windycrest Sailing Club
>
> -!- http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/ -!- http://www.sailing.org/ -!- http://www.sailwave.com/
> -!-
>
> Latest versions of sailwave can be downloaded from the 'files' section at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailwave/
>
> Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
> sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
In my club the SI for the season trophy states: "Trophy competition is between skippers. "
http://ussailing.net/waccamaw/
We score each weekend as a short regatta with no throwouts. There are no trophies (but they do brag) and folks can sail whatever they wish race by race. The skippers do need to communicate with the RC if they switch.
We then manually transpose the weekend results (positions only) to the long series for the season. If a skipper switches boats he might get scored in multiple fleets and not qualify in any, but that's his problem. With our liberal throwout profile it is possible to qualify in 2 fleets over the season! (No one has) If a skipper switches boats within a fleet I use a virtual sail number in the long series -- usually his initials.
It works well for us but whatever you do must be explained in the SI.
...Gil
----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Jefferies" <laser75265@hotmail.com>
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 7:36 AM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Do other clubs allow this, and does Sailwave facilitate it?
We do not allow this as it could allow people to swap boats for one with a
more favourable handicap for the given conditions.E.g. Some who might normally sail a Phantom in lighter winds but switches to
a Laser in heavier winds. The club policy is if you sail in 2 different
classes of boat in a handicap series you get 2 sets of results.Swapping between boats withing the same class is allowed so if you buy a new
boat or even just a new sail that is OK.Paul
From: Dwain <cbnspoppa@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Do other clubs allow this, and does Sailwave
facilitate it?
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 04:23:16 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Originating-IP: 66.163.169.77
X-Sender: cbnspoppa@yahoo.com
Received: from mc2-f11.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.18]) by imc3-s35.hotmail.com
with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 11 Jul 2005 04:32:50 -0700
Received: from n21a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.50]) by
mc2-f11.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 11 Jul 2005
04:25:34 -0700
Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n21.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Jul
2005 11:23:18 -0000
Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11
Jul 2005 11:23:18 -0000
Received: (qmail 11194 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2005 11:23:16 -0000
Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP;
11 Jul 2005 11:23:16 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO web80104.mail.yahoo.com) (66.163.169.77) by
mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2005 11:23:16 -0000
Received: (qmail 18308 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jul 2005 11:23:16 -0000
Received: from [68.91.208.171] by web80104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 11
Jul 2005 04:23:16 PDT
X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jHW2yP61TVMf9gIV2GhflBY7dO227BeSD0=
Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima;
d=yahoogroups.com;b=D4N91nhcVx7bS1OmjneNk2U8hu86+k0+Ud5MTSxfYiU0A+d/uqhneLYpsdqR2H6o5pC9LZwSFVpzWiJBjaLJMca25ofGgh4WfSRvUw0qo5H66+tb7+bLcpw1rLwE+tfJ;
X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email
X-Apparently-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0
X-Yahoo-Profile: cbnspoppa
Mailing-List: list sailwave@yahoogroups.com; contact
sailwave-owner@yahoogroups.com
Delivered-To: mailing list sailwave@yahoogroups.com
List-Id: <sailwave.yahoogroups.com>
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Return-Path:
sentto-3086530-4744-1121080998-laser75265=hotmail.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2005 11:25:34.0696 (UTC)
FILETIME=[41393E80:01C5860B]We do it at my club (in fact, I do it frequently, partly to show folks that
it's not the boat that
makes you fast). I'm a rookie sailwave user...and build each race/r
individually. I then export
the results into another race, using name and results only as the criteria,
for the cumulative
scoring for the series. It's cumbersome for me, but then again, we're not
a big club (maybe fifty
boats over 40 races a year).dwain
commodore, Creve Coeur Sailing Association
St. Louis, MO--- Chip Stratton <cstrat@swbell.net> wrote:
> A skipper switching to another class of boat within a handicap fleet
> within a given series, and combining the results of the two boats
> under the one skipper?
>
> There is pressure to do this at my club. What say the racing/scoring
> community?
>
> I don't see that Sailwave supports this in any elegant way, short of
> forcing rankings, which nukes time/corrected time output. Please point
> the way if I'm wrong.
>
> Thanks,
> Chip Stratton
> Scorer
> Windycrest Sailing Club
>
> -!- http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/ -!- http://www.sailing.org/ -!-
http://www.sailwave.com/
> -!-
>
> Latest versions of sailwave can be downloaded from the 'files' section
at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailwave/
>
> Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
> sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>-!- http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/ -!- http://www.sailing.org/ -!- http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
Latest versions of sailwave can be downloaded from the 'files' section at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailwave/Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
The only time we don't permit it (combining scores from different boats)is when you change fleets.
We have two fleets, PN 93 to 1xx and 92.9 to 0. Each fleet trophies itself, and it is between
skippers, not boats. We've had skippers in one race give the helm to their son - that skipper
doesn't get the points for that race, his son does. If I move from my F5 to the Laser, my scores
are not tranferrable between the two, since the Laser is in the fast fleet and the Force 5 in the
slow fleet (two different series, not equalized).
Personally, I don't see a problem with racing two different boats with two different handicap. It
still boils down to sailing better, no matter which boat you're in. I've sailed in the same
series against the same skippers in a Mirror Dinghy, Capri 16.6 and Force 5, where the other
skippers stuck with one boat. We're always neck-in-neck, no matter which boat I'm in. B
The question is "does Sailwave permit it?". Yes, using the export to another series function (and
i'm using 1.58).
Does your ISAF permit it? Doesn't matter - the handicap system takes care of it. Does your local
SIs allow it? Up to you entirely. Some don't, some do.
dwain
--- Gil Vick <gil42c@verizon.net> wrote:
In my club the SI for the season trophy states: "Trophy competition is
between skippers. "http://ussailing.net/waccamaw/
We score each weekend as a short regatta with no throwouts. There are no
trophies (but they do brag) and folks can sail whatever they wish race by
race. The skippers do need to communicate with the RC if they switch.We then manually transpose the weekend results (positions only) to the long
series for the season. If a skipper switches boats he might get scored in
multiple fleets and not qualify in any, but that's his problem. With our
liberal throwout profile it is possible to qualify in 2 fleets over the
season! (No one has) If a skipper switches boats within a fleet I use a
virtual sail number in the long series -- usually his initials.It works well for us but whatever you do must be explained in the SI.
...Gil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Jefferies" <laser75265@hotmail.com>
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 7:36 AM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Do other clubs allow this, and does Sailwave
facilitate it?> We do not allow this as it could allow people to swap boats for one with a
> more favourable handicap for the given conditions.
>
> E.g. Some who might normally sail a Phantom in lighter winds but switches
> to
> a Laser in heavier winds. The club policy is if you sail in 2 different
> classes of boat in a handicap series you get 2 sets of results.
>
> Swapping between boats withing the same class is allowed so if you buy a
> new
> boat or even just a new sail that is OK.
>
> Paul
>>>
>>We do it at my club (in fact, I do it frequently, partly to show folks
>>that
>>it's not the boat that
>>makes you fast). I'm a rookie sailwave user...and build each race/r
>>individually. I then export
>>the results into another race, using name and results only as the
>>criteria,
>>for the cumulative
>>scoring for the series. It's cumbersome for me, but then again, we're not
>>a big club (maybe fifty
>>boats over 40 races a year).
>>
>>dwain
>>commodore, Creve Coeur Sailing Association
>>St. Louis, MO
>>
>>--- Chip Stratton <cstrat@swbell.net> wrote:
>>
>> > A skipper switching to another class of boat within a handicap fleet
>> > within a given series, and combining the results of the two boats
>> > under the one skipper?
>> >
>> > There is pressure to do this at my club. What say the racing/scoring
>> > community?
>> >
>> > I don't see that Sailwave supports this in any elegant way, short of
>> > forcing rankings, which nukes time/corrected time output. Please point
>> > the way if I'm wrong.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Chip Stratton
>> > Scorer
>> > Windycrest Sailing Club
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -!- http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/ -!- http://www.sailing.org/ -!-
>>http://www.sailwave.com/
>> > -!-
>> >
>> > Latest versions of sailwave can be downloaded from the 'files' section
>>at
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailwave/
>> >
>> > Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
>> > sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -!- http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/ -!- http://www.sailing.org/ -!-
> http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
>
> Latest versions of sailwave can be downloaded from the 'files' section at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailwave/
>
> Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
> sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>-!- http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/ -!- http://www.sailing.org/ -!- http://www.sailwave.com/
-!-Latest versions of sailwave can be downloaded from the 'files' section at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailwave/Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
If you score each individual race as a seperate series, or maybe a day or weekends's worth of racing as a series, and then combine those results based upon helm into a overall series. Everything works as you don't have to worry about the handicaps, eleapsed or corrected in the overall series.
Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Chip Stratton" <cstrat@swbell.net>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Do other clubs allow this, and does Sailwave facilitate it?
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 03:23:58 -0000
A skipper switching to another class of boat within a handicap fleet
within a given series, and combining the results of the two boats
under the one skipper?
There is pressure to do this at my club. What say the racing/scoring
community?
I don't see that Sailwave supports this in any elegant way, short of
forcing rankings, which nukes time/corrected time output. Please point
the way if I'm wrong.
Thanks,
Chip Stratton
Scorer
Windycrest Sailing Club