Duration of Races

I have some questions regarding handicap racing - not directly SailWave related.

Portsmouth yardstick is based on races about 100 minutes in duration. We generally sail shorter races these days - more like 50 minutes, the idea being to get in more races per day. Often PY is used for such races, despite the recommendation that it is more accurate for 100 min. races.

Do UK clubs normally sail 100 min. races? Or do they sail 100 minute races only when gathering yardstick data for RYA?

If PY was based on shorter races, would the relative ratings differ materially?

regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield, South Africa

Hi Malcolm

As a past member of the RYA PY Group, I have never heard of the 100 minute rule.

If it is correct, it must have been a factor from many many years ago, before the current statistical method was introduced

Without boring you with detail, the PY system is now based upon recommendations from clubs in the annual return.

The basis of these recommendations ranges from statistical analysis to ‘opinion’ of the club Sailing Committee.

The returns are all fed into a computer & a ‘digest’ produced which shows amongst lots of other data, a three year moving average for each class.

A meeting of ‘wise old men’ - of course I was the youngster of the group :wink: then review the digest & decide if the number should be changed.

To answer your question therefore, if returns are based upon shorter racing then the current numbers reflect this shorter duration.

However, I am not sure about your basic premise that the accuracy of the PY varies with race duration - surely it is not relevant???

If you are considering what might affect PY, you should be looking in more depth at what your local conditions are.

The RYA PY is for average sailing waters, in average winds, for average sailors.

We all know of boats which are better on the sea than a pond, are quicker in stronger winds, or some classes generally sailed by better sailors.

My advice is to follow YR2 in terms of calculating your own local PYs or if this is too boring, continue to go out & enjoy a good sail, then return to the bar & continue the debate re how all the classes that beat you have the wrong PY;-)

Good sailing

Regards

Ralph

···

From: Malcolm Osborne [mailto:malcolmo@telkomsa.net]
Sent: 22 April 2007 23:37
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Duration of Races

I have some questions regarding handicap racing - not directly SailWave related.

Portsmouth yardstick is based on races about 100 minutes in duration. We generally sail shorter races these days - more like 50 minutes, the idea being to get in more races per day. Often PY is used for such races, despite the recommendation that it is more accurate for 100 min. races.

Do UK clubs normally sail 100 min. races? Or do they sail 100 minute races only when gathering yardstick data for RYA?

If PY was based on shorter races, would the relative ratings differ materially?

regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield, South Africa

Portsmouth yardstick is based on races about 100 minutes in duration.

Interesting - can you point to a reference to this, please?

Do UK clubs normally sail 100 min. races? Or do they sail 100 minute

races only when gathering yardstick data for RYA?

In my limited experience, 80 to 90 minutes for a mid-fleet boat would
be more typical.

If PY was based on shorter races, would the relative ratings differ

materially?

As one who has spent some time racing a 'slower' boat in a mixed
handicap fleet, I'd have to say 'yes', due to the greater proportion
of time spent fighting dirty air in the first few minutes after the
start :frowning:
However, if you operated the PY scheme 'to the letter' you would be
adjusting your club's handicap list to take into account local
conditions, so this should come out 'in the wash'.

Mike Croker
Lancing SC

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Malcolm Osborne" <malcolmo@...> wrote:

Mike,

I don’t have a reference to the `100 minute race’ , but perhaps it is just hearsay, emanating from previous years when the system used the 100 basis.

regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield, South Africa

···

----- Original Message -----

From:
Mike Croker

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 9:29 AM

Subject: [sailwave] Re: Duration of Races

— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com , “Malcolm Osborne” <malcolmo@…> wrote:

Portsmouth yardstick is based on races about 100 minutes in duration.

Interesting - can you point to a reference to this, please?

Do UK clubs normally sail 100 min. races? Or do they sail 100 minute
races only when gathering yardstick data for RYA?

In my limited experience, 80 to 90 minutes for a mid-fleet boat would
be more typical.

If PY was based on shorter races, would the relative ratings differ
materially?

As one who has spent some time racing a ‘slower’ boat in a mixed
handicap fleet, I’d have to say ‘yes’, due to the greater proportion
of time spent fighting dirty air in the first few minutes after the
start :frowning:
However, if you operated the PY scheme ‘to the letter’ you would be
adjusting your club’s handicap list to take into account local
conditions, so this should come out ‘in the wash’.

Mike Croker
Lancing SC