ESPN (Estimated Speed Potential Number) included with Published Results?

Imported from Yahoo
1

Could we consider a BCE/BCR type calculation to be used with Time on Time racing based on how a yacht performed within the fleet?

Yachts are always concerned with their “Handicap” no matter what rating scheme is being used. In Nova Scotia, Canada we use Time on Time called ASPN (Atlantic Speed Potential Number) This directly relates to PHRF by PHRF = 63,000/ASPN - 400. Essentially a yacht with an ASPN of 125 must beat a yacht with an ASPN of 120 by 5% .

When all is said an done the question the yachts always ask is “What rating did I sail to?” If I am rated as 125 and I consistently sail to 119 then either I need to improve my game or my rating is too high. We call this figure the ESPN.

First, we pick out the “median corrected time”. This is the corrected time of the yacht finishing in the middle of the fleet when ordered by corrected times. With an even number of finishers, we pick the first of the middle two finishers. For example, in races with 9 or 10 finishers, the yacht finishing 5th on corrected time would have the median corrected time.

The median corrected time is then divided by the elapsed time of each yacht, and multiplied by 100, to calculate the “Effective Speed Potential Number” (ESPN) of each yacht. The ESPN is the ASPN each yacht would need to have for all yachts to finish that race with the same (median) corrected time.

The leaders will have ESPNs larger than their ASPNs and the stragglers will have ESPNs smaller than their ASPNs, the differences being a measure of their performance in that race.

I believe that this ESPN concept of relative performance feedback would be something that could apply to any handicap system. In Nova Scotia we find that racers use it as a gauge of their team performance. I would love to standardize our use of Sailwave but know that the ESPN number is something everyone wants to see.

Comments? Feeback? Any support?

Happy sailing
Ian
http://www.poohsticks.ca
http://www.lyc.ns.ca

2

I now publish all of Lancing’s race results with a BCE column, and for
the Wed Evening Personal Handicap series I use BCR to calculate % off
the median - see
Mike Croker
Lancing SC
ianmmann wrote:

···

http://www.lancingsc.org.uk/bulletin/viewtopic.php?t=596

Could we consider a BCE/BCR type calculation to be used
with Time on Time racing based on how a yacht performed within the
fleet?

Yachts are always concerned with their “Handicap” no matter what
rating scheme is being used. In Nova Scotia, Canada we use Time on Time
called ASPN (Atlantic Speed Potential Number) This directly relates to
PHRF by PHRF = 63,000/ASPN - 400. Essentially a yacht with an ASPN of
125 must beat a yacht with an ASPN of 120 by 5% .

When all is said an done the question the yachts always ask is
“What rating did I sail to?” If I am rated as 125 and I consistently
sail to 119 then either I need to improve my game or my rating is too
high. We call this figure the ESPN.

First, we pick out the “median corrected time”. This is the
corrected time of the yacht finishing in the middle of the fleet when
ordered by corrected times. With an even number of finishers, we pick
the first of the middle two finishers. For example, in races with 9 or
10 finishers, the yacht finishing 5th on corrected time would have the
median corrected time.

The median corrected time is then divided by the elapsed time of
each yacht, and multiplied by 100, to calculate the “Effective Speed
Potential Number” (ESPN) of each yacht. The ESPN is the ASPN each
yacht would need to have for all yachts to finish that race with the
same (median) corrected time.

The leaders will have ESPNs larger than their ASPNs and the
stragglers will have ESPNs smaller than their ASPNs, the differences
being a measure of their performance in that race.

I believe that this ESPN concept of relative performance feedback
would be something that could apply to any handicap
system. In Nova Scotia we find that racers use it as a gauge of their
team performance. I would love to standardize our use of Sailwave but
know that the ESPN number is something everyone wants to see.

Comments? Feeback? Any support?

Happy sailing
Ian
http://www.poohsticks.ca
http://www.lyc.ns.ca

3

I also race in Nova Scotia, Canada. In fact I sail with Ian who
wrote the original post for this thread.

The Estimated Speed Potential Number is an essential part of our
handicap management system in Nova Scotia. Ian and I have been
looking at Sailwave as a possible replecement for the current
software that we use as part of our provincial handicap managment
and scoring system.

I have loaded race data into the software and was quite happy with
the calculated results...the publish feature is really quite nice.
But it seems that I must be doing someting wrong since all I get is
zeros for BCR in the published results. For reference I selected
the ASPN rating option, I also entered start times and finish times
for all boats. The calculated finish order was correct, as were the
corrected times, and the elapsed times. But I got a null set for
BCR.

Any ideas???

Mike
http://www.poohsticks.ca

4

H Mike,

Can you attach your series to a reply to this please. I'll take a look.

Sailwave currently calculates CBR and CBE from the winner but it would be
fairly straightforward to allow it to be generalised a bit; e..g so that it
was caluclated off the median competitor etc.

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of j92foredeck1
Sent: 03 August 2006 00:09
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: ESPN (Estimated Speed Potential Number) included
with Published Results?

I also race in Nova Scotia, Canada. In fact I sail with Ian who
wrote the original post for this thread.

The Estimated Speed Potential Number is an essential part of our
handicap management system in Nova Scotia. Ian and I have been
looking at Sailwave as a possible replecement for the current
software that we use as part of our provincial handicap managment
and scoring system.

I have loaded race data into the software and was quite happy with
the calculated results...the publish feature is really quite nice.
But it seems that I must be doing someting wrong since all I get is
zeros for BCR in the published results. For reference I selected
the ASPN rating option, I also entered start times and finish times
for all boats. The calculated finish order was correct, as were the
corrected times, and the elapsed times. But I got a null set for
BCR.

Any ideas???

Mike
http://www.poohsticks.ca

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http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailwave/

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5

Hi Ian,

See my reply to Mike. I can can generalise the BCR/BCE stuff so that you can define how it’s calculated youself…

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of ianmmann
Sent:
02 August 2006 15:02
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject:
[sailwave] ESPN (Estimated Speed Potential Number) included with Published Results?

** Could we consider a BCE/BCR type calculation to be used with Time on Time racing based on how a yacht performed within the fleet?**

Yachts are always concerned with their “Handicap” no matter what rating scheme is being used. In Nova Scotia, Canada we use Time on Time called ASPN (Atlantic Speed Potential Number) This directly relates to PHRF by PHRF = 63,000/ASPN - 400. Essentially a yacht with an ASPN of 125 must beat a yacht with an ASPN of 120 by 5% .

When all is said an done the question the yachts always ask is “What rating did I sail to?” If I am rated as 125 and I consistently sail to 119 then either I need to improve my game or my rating is too high. We call this figure the ESPN.

First, we pick out the “median corrected time”. This is the corrected time of the yacht finishing in the middle of the fleet when ordered by corrected times. With an even number of finishers, we pick the first of the middle two finishers. For example, in races with 9 or 10 finishers, the yacht finishing 5th on corrected time would have the median corrected time.

The median corrected time is then divided by the elapsed time of each yacht, and multiplied by 100, to calculate the “Effective Speed Potential Number” (ESPN) of each yacht. The ESPN is the ASPN each yacht would need to have for all yachts to finish that race with the same (median) corrected time.

The leaders will have ESPNs larger than their ASPNs and the stragglers will have ESPNs smaller than their ASPNs, the differences being a measure of their performance in that race.

I believe that this ESPN concept of relative performance feedback would be something that could apply to any handicap system. In Nova Scotia we find that racers use it as a gauge of their team performance. I would love to standardize our use of Sailwave but know that the ESPN number is something everyone wants to see.

Comments? Feeback? Any support?

Happy sailing
Ian
http://www.poohsticks.ca
http://www.lyc.ns.ca

6

Colin,

In your generalisation will it then be possible to produce the same information that the RYA YR2 Analysis spreadsheet does? :slight_smile:

Therefore making it easier to use Sailwave to assist in making an annual RYA PY Return :wink:

Kind regards,

Huw

···

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Colin Jenkins
Sent: 03 August 2006 09:37
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] ESPN (Estimated Speed Potential Number) included with Published Results?

Hi Ian,

See my reply to Mike. I can can generalise the BCR/BCE stuff so that you can define how it’s calculated youself…

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

-----Original Message-----
From:
sailwave@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]** On Behalf Of** ianmmann
Sent: 02 August 2006 15:02
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] ESPN (Estimated Speed Potential Number) included with Published Results?

** Could we consider a BCE/BCR type calculation to be used with Time on Time racing based on how a yacht performed within the fleet?**

Yachts are always concerned with their "Handicap" no matter what rating scheme is being used. In Nova Scotia, Canada we use Time on Time called ASPN (Atlantic Speed Potential Number) This directly relates to PHRF by PHRF = 63,000/ASPN - 400. Essentially a yacht with an ASPN of 125 must beat a yacht with an ASPN of 120 by 5% .

When all is said an done the question the yachts always ask is "What rating did I sail to?" If I am rated as 125 and I consistently sail to 119 then either I need to improve my game or my rating is too high. We call this figure the ESPN.

First, we pick out the "median corrected time". This is the corrected time of the yacht finishing in the middle of the fleet when ordered by corrected times. With an even number of finishers, we pick the first of the middle two finishers. For example, in races with 9 or 10 finishers, the yacht finishing 5th on corrected time would have the median corrected time.

The median corrected time is then divided by the elapsed time of each yacht, and multiplied by 100, to calculate the "Effective Speed Potential Number" (ESPN) of each yacht.  The ESPN is the ASPN each yacht would need to have for all yachts to finish that race with the same (median) corrected time.

The leaders will have ESPNs larger than their ASPNs and the stragglers will have ESPNs smaller than their ASPNs, the differences being a measure of their performance in that race.

I believe that this ESPN concept of relative performance feedback would be something that could apply to **any** handicap system. In Nova Scotia we find that racers use it as a gauge of their team performance. I would love to standardize our use of Sailwave but know that the ESPN number is something everyone wants to see.

Comments? Feeback? Any support?

Happy sailing
Ian
http://www.poohsticks.ca
http://www.lyc.ns.ca

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7

Colin:

I love generic functionality!!

At present you have variables for r (The boat rating), e (The
elapsed time in seconds),d (The race distance)

It seems that we now need access to time variables as well as
the "median" boat values.

Once I am able to do the ESPN calculation I will do a formal
presentation to the Nova Scotia Yachting Association (NSYA)
recommending that we properly endorse and support your ever evolving
product. Many thanks!

ps. I see the Volvo prize calculation is still being used.

Ian

Hi Ian,

See my reply to Mike. I can can generalise the BCR/BCE stuff so

that you

can define how it's calculated youself...

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

  From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]

On Behalf

Of ianmmann
  Sent: 02 August 2006 15:02
  To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [sailwave] ESPN (Estimated Speed Potential Number)

included with

Published Results?

  Could we consider a BCE/BCR type calculation to be used with

Time on Time

racing based on how a yacht performed within the fleet?

  Yachts are always concerned with their "Handicap" no matter what

rating

scheme is being used. In Nova Scotia, Canada we use Time on Time

called ASPN

(Atlantic Speed Potential Number) This directly relates to PHRF by

PHRF =

63,000/ASPN - 400. Essentially a yacht with an ASPN of 125 must

beat a yacht

with an ASPN of 120 by 5% .

  When all is said an done the question the yachts always ask

is "What

rating did I sail to?" If I am rated as 125 and I consistently

sail to 119

then either I need to improve my game or my rating is too high. We

call this

figure the ESPN.

  First, we pick out the "median corrected time". This is the

corrected time

of the yacht finishing in the middle of the fleet when ordered by

corrected

times. With an even number of finishers, we pick the first of the

middle two

finishers. For example, in races with 9 or 10 finishers, the yacht

finishing

5th on corrected time would have the median corrected time.

  The median corrected time is then divided by the elapsed time of

each

yacht, and multiplied by 100, to calculate the "Effective Speed

Potential

Number" (ESPN) of each yacht. The ESPN is the ASPN each yacht

would need to

have for all yachts to finish that race with the same (median)

corrected

time.

  The leaders will have ESPNs larger than their ASPNs and the

stragglers

will have ESPNs smaller than their ASPNs, the differences being a

measure of

their performance in that race.

  I believe that this ESPN concept of relative performance

feedback would be

something that could apply to any handicap system. In Nova Scotia

we find

that racers use it as a gauge of their team performance. I would

love to

standardize our use of Sailwave but know that the ESPN number is

something

everyone wants to see.

  Comments? Feeback? Any support?

  Happy sailing
  Ian
  http://www.poohsticks.ca
  http://www.lyc.ns.ca

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···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Jenkins" <colin@...> wrote:

  -----Original Message-----

8

Hi Ian,

>> ps. I see the Volvo prize calculation is still being used.

Ah, sorry Ian, I didn't 'recognise' you...

Yeah, I scored the Volvo Youth Worlds here this year (great fun) and met
Fiona Kidd et al WRT next year - I think they are going to use it. I've
tweaked it a bit to show the race scores as well as overall.

http://www.youthworlds.org/docs/uploaded/volvoprize.htm

I hadn't tried running it since your 2002 event, so on day 1 I fired it up
and, arrgh, all points = 0. Fixed it at about midnight that day after a few
beers. I've offered to go to Kingston next year and score the event there,
but there is not really any reason why they should indulge me in that...

Another amusing thing that happened this year was that about 10 mins after
posting the day 2 Volvo scores the French coach strolled up to me and said
"zee volovo trophy scores are not correct - FRA do not have enough points
and GBR and ITA have too many - but hey - don't vorry - zey are always wrong
with zis ISAF software - it is zee same every year... I have zis
spreadsheet, look...". Turned out his spreadsheet was a bit wonky :slight_smile:

ISAF software?!

Nice to hear from you again.

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

PS: do you still have an example of the sailwave style you used for 2002 -
they were very nice results but I can't find them on the web anymore in that
form...

Hi Ian,

See my reply to Mike. I can can generalise the BCR/BCE stuff so

that you

can define how it's calculated youself...

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

  From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]

On Behalf

Of ianmmann
  Sent: 02 August 2006 15:02
  To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [sailwave] ESPN (Estimated Speed Potential Number)

included with

Published Results?

  Could we consider a BCE/BCR type calculation to be used with

Time on Time

racing based on how a yacht performed within the fleet?

  Yachts are always concerned with their "Handicap" no matter what

rating

scheme is being used. In Nova Scotia, Canada we use Time on Time

called ASPN

(Atlantic Speed Potential Number) This directly relates to PHRF by

PHRF =

63,000/ASPN - 400. Essentially a yacht with an ASPN of 125 must

beat a yacht

with an ASPN of 120 by 5% .

  When all is said an done the question the yachts always ask

is "What

rating did I sail to?" If I am rated as 125 and I consistently

sail to 119

then either I need to improve my game or my rating is too high. We

call this

figure the ESPN.

  First, we pick out the "median corrected time". This is the

corrected time

of the yacht finishing in the middle of the fleet when ordered by

corrected

times. With an even number of finishers, we pick the first of the

middle two

finishers. For example, in races with 9 or 10 finishers, the yacht

finishing

5th on corrected time would have the median corrected time.

  The median corrected time is then divided by the elapsed time of

each

yacht, and multiplied by 100, to calculate the "Effective Speed

Potential

Number" (ESPN) of each yacht. The ESPN is the ASPN each yacht

would need to

have for all yachts to finish that race with the same (median)

corrected

time.

  The leaders will have ESPNs larger than their ASPNs and the

stragglers

will have ESPNs smaller than their ASPNs, the differences being a

measure of

their performance in that race.

  I believe that this ESPN concept of relative performance

feedback would be

something that could apply to any handicap system. In Nova Scotia

we find

that racers use it as a gauge of their team performance. I would

love to

standardize our use of Sailwave but know that the ESPN number is

something

everyone wants to see.

  Comments? Feeback? Any support?

  Happy sailing
  Ian
  http://www.poohsticks.ca
  http://www.lyc.ns.ca

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01/08/2006

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http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-

Latest versions of sailwave can be downloaded from the 'files' section at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailwave/

On-Line Sailwave help...
http://sailwave.com/help/HTML/

Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
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···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Jenkins" <colin@...> wrote:

  -----Original Message-----

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9

Colin/Ian:

This all sounds very promising :slight_smile:

Colin; you asked me to send you a copy of the little test file that
I produced. I think I'll tidy up that file by using real data from
Ian's published results on the Lunenburg Yacht Club web site...then
I'll send a copy along to you. I suspect that the publish feature
will show that when using the ASPN handicap rating (Time on Time)
button the published results will not show a back calculated rating.

I'm assuming that once we get the BCR feature working for TOT
racing, then perhaps the "generic functionality" feature will allow
us to work up a good proxy for our Estimated Speed Potential Number
(ESPN).

Best regards:

Mike

BTW....how do I attach a file to a post on this forum???

Colin:

I love generic functionality!!

At present you have variables for r (The boat rating), e (The
elapsed time in seconds),d (The race distance)

It seems that we now need access to time variables as well as
the "median" boat values.

Once I am able to do the ESPN calculation I will do a formal
presentation to the Nova Scotia Yachting Association (NSYA)
recommending that we properly endorse and support your ever

evolving

product. Many thanks!

ps. I see the Volvo prize calculation is still being used.

Ian

>
> Hi Ian,
>
> See my reply to Mike. I can can generalise the BCR/BCE stuff so
that you
> can define how it's calculated youself...
>
> Regards,
> Colin
> www.sailwave.com
>
>
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]

On Behalf
> Of ianmmann
> Sent: 02 August 2006 15:02
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [sailwave] ESPN (Estimated Speed Potential Number)
included with
> Published Results?
>
>
> Could we consider a BCE/BCR type calculation to be used with
Time on Time
> racing based on how a yacht performed within the fleet?
>
> Yachts are always concerned with their "Handicap" no matter

what

rating
> scheme is being used. In Nova Scotia, Canada we use Time on Time
called ASPN
> (Atlantic Speed Potential Number) This directly relates to PHRF

by

PHRF =
> 63,000/ASPN - 400. Essentially a yacht with an ASPN of 125 must
beat a yacht
> with an ASPN of 120 by 5% .
>
> When all is said an done the question the yachts always ask
is "What
> rating did I sail to?" If I am rated as 125 and I consistently
sail to 119
> then either I need to improve my game or my rating is too high.

We

call this
> figure the ESPN.
>
> First, we pick out the "median corrected time". This is the
corrected time
> of the yacht finishing in the middle of the fleet when ordered

by

corrected
> times. With an even number of finishers, we pick the first of

the

middle two
> finishers. For example, in races with 9 or 10 finishers, the

yacht

finishing
> 5th on corrected time would have the median corrected time.
>
> The median corrected time is then divided by the elapsed time

of

each
> yacht, and multiplied by 100, to calculate the "Effective Speed
Potential
> Number" (ESPN) of each yacht. The ESPN is the ASPN each yacht
would need to
> have for all yachts to finish that race with the same (median)
corrected
> time.
>
> The leaders will have ESPNs larger than their ASPNs and the
stragglers
> will have ESPNs smaller than their ASPNs, the differences being

a

measure of
> their performance in that race.
>
> I believe that this ESPN concept of relative performance
feedback would be
> something that could apply to any handicap system. In Nova

Scotia

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "ianmmann" <ian@...> wrote:

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Jenkins" <colin@> wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
we find
> that racers use it as a gauge of their team performance. I would
love to
> standardize our use of Sailwave but know that the ESPN number is
something
> everyone wants to see.
>
> Comments? Feeback? Any support?
>
> Happy sailing
> Ian
> http://www.poohsticks.ca
> http://www.lyc.ns.ca
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/405 - Release Date:
01/08/2006
>