I have 75 Optimists at my hands, the regatta starts Saturday.
I want to divide them in 4 groups (Green, Blue, Red and White ribbons
in sail)
In each of the 6 Races I want to have 2 Starts, where the Groups meet
each other in a round-robin scheme.
Now to my question: Shall I divide them into Flights directly? I have
seen that many choice, and it works fine. I have also seen the menu
where I can define a Start being the sum of two of the Flights...
But what is a Fleet and what is a Group in Sailwave?? Thers is no
guidance in teh SW I have found at least...
My thinking goes more on the lne: a Flight should be the sum of two
Groups,. but that does not seem to be the Sailwave view.
I will try to assist you, if you have not recieved assistance by
direct email contact.
Firstly a question - are you going to assign the competitors to your
colour groups before entering them into Sailwave? Sailwave can do
this once you have entered the competitors. However, race organisers
frequently apply some sort of seeding, so that competitors of roughly
equal capability are spread across the colour groups.
Before you enter all the competitors you need to create the series and
set some things up. After you have created the initial file, you need
to choose Setup from the menu bar then UI options and click the radio
button next to Pro and check the following options
Extra competitor fields
Split starts...
To configure things for a race you will have two starts per race each
consisting of two colour groups. For Sailwave to sort out the results
you need to setup which colour groups will be in each start, i.e.
which competitors will be sailing against each other for results
processing.
Sailwave has many different competitor fields many of which can be
used to when scoring, this allows for producing results according to
different criteria; for example - separating girls & boys, separating
different ages. In this context Fleet can be used for some event
specific categorisation as can the use of Division.
You can consider a Flight, as you have said, as the sum of two colour
groups for a start in a race, e.g.
Yellow & Blue Start 1 Race 1
Red & Green Start 2 Race 1
Yellow & Green Start 1 Race 2
Red & Blue Start 2 Race 2
Yellow & Red Start 1 Race 3
Red & Green Start 2 Race 3
Red & Green Start 1 Race 4
Yellow & Blue Start 2 Race 4
Red & Blue Start 1 Race 5
Yellow & Green Start 2 Race 5
Red & Green Start 1 Race 6
Yellow & Red Start 2 Race 6
Hope this is of some assistance.
If not get back to me if you think I can help some more.
Kind regards,
Huw
I have 75 Optimists at my hands, the regatta starts Saturday.
I want to divide them in 4 groups (Green, Blue, Red and White ribbons
in sail)
In each of the 6 Races I want to have 2 Starts, where the Groups meet
each other in a round-robin scheme.
Now to my question: Shall I divide them into Flights directly? I have
seen that many choice, and it works fine. I have also seen the menu
where I can define a Start being the sum of two of the Flights...
But what is a Fleet and what is a Group in Sailwave?? Thers is no
guidance in teh SW I have found at least...
My thinking goes more on the lne: a Flight should be the sum of two
Groups,. but that does not seem to be the Sailwave view.
As a follow up to Huws message (Thanks Huw - I intended to reply - work is
just mega crazy - i had a customer threating to jump of a cliff today - and
so I said...) attached is an example - it's a Topper Nationwide event but
set up in exactly the same way as your event. I would forget about flights
as such - in Sailwave a flight means a competitor changes flight each race
and you dont need that - just put them into fleets and arrange the starts as
described by Huw - the magic bullet is the setting Huw mentioned - allow
muiltiple 1st etc in the scoring system - and then score everybody as one
group. If you set it up like this you can enter the sail numbers (using the
sailno wizard) *across fleets* - Sailwave knows which fleet each sailno is
in so allocates 1,2,3 appropriately - this is what happens at the Topper
Nationwide events. It *greatly* eases the guys on the water task of
recoding sailnos if they are on the same course or interwoven course that
finish overlapped...
I will try to assist you, if you have not recieved assistance by
direct email contact.
Firstly a question - are you going to assign the competitors to your
colour groups before entering them into Sailwave? Sailwave can do
this once you have entered the competitors. However, race organisers
frequently apply some sort of seeding, so that competitors of roughly
equal capability are spread across the colour groups.
Before you enter all the competitors you need to create the series and
set some things up. After you have created the initial file, you need
to choose Setup from the menu bar then UI options and click the radio
button next to Pro and check the following options
Extra competitor fields
Split starts...
To configure things for a race you will have two starts per race each
consisting of two colour groups. For Sailwave to sort out the results
you need to setup which colour groups will be in each start, i.e.
which competitors will be sailing against each other for results
processing.
Sailwave has many different competitor fields many of which can be
used to when scoring, this allows for producing results according to
different criteria; for example - separating girls & boys, separating
different ages. In this context Fleet can be used for some event
specific categorisation as can the use of Division.
You can consider a Flight, as you have said, as the sum of two colour
groups for a start in a race, e.g.
Yellow & Blue Start 1 Race 1
Red & Green Start 2 Race 1
Yellow & Green Start 1 Race 2
Red & Blue Start 2 Race 2
Yellow & Red Start 1 Race 3
Red & Green Start 2 Race 3
Red & Green Start 1 Race 4
Yellow & Blue Start 2 Race 4
Red & Blue Start 1 Race 5
Yellow & Green Start 2 Race 5
Red & Green Start 1 Race 6
Yellow & Red Start 2 Race 6
Hope this is of some assistance.
If not get back to me if you think I can help some more.
Kind regards,
Huw
I have 75 Optimists at my hands, the regatta starts Saturday.
I want to divide them in 4 groups (Green, Blue, Red and White ribbons
in sail)
In each of the 6 Races I want to have 2 Starts, where the Groups meet
each other in a round-robin scheme.
Now to my question: Shall I divide them into Flights directly? I have
seen that many choice, and it works fine. I have also seen the menu
where I can define a Start being the sum of two of the Flights...
But what is a Fleet and what is a Group in Sailwave?? Thers is no
guidance in teh SW I have found at least...
My thinking goes more on the lne: a Flight should be the sum of two
Groups,. but that does not seem to be the Sailwave view.
I have just spent some time searching the archives which have been very helpful.
For the first time the Australian International 420 Class Association are considering running
races as described by Huw in message 7249. ie Split starts for the one race, the sum of two
colour groups for a start in a race, eg.
Yellow & Blue start 1 race 1
Red & Green start 2 race 2
The current program I am using cannot accommodate different starts for the same race
hence my interest in this program.
A couple of questions immediately come to mind, how do you determine the winner of the
Invitation Race or as in our case a race of the series that has a memorial trophy attached to
it? And, is it possible to calculate consistency places in this style of racing.
For an individual race there will always be 2 winners if you have 2
starts so you can't determine a single winner.
Over a series things work out ok as long as you re-arrange the groups in
some fashion so that over time every one sails against everyone else.
So after 3 races everyone has sailed against each other at least once
and you continue with this.
Ideally the groups want to have an even spread so the best 4 sailors are
in separate groups rather than having the best in one otherwise the 2nd
best sailor would have a hard time winning and someone much lower in a
lower standard group could be beating them.
For longer series (ie nationals) re-flighting is often done either daily
or once in the middle based on the results to date in the series.
The initial flighting is usually based on results in the season in large
events if possible.
An alternative which the toppers do is to round-robin as above for the
first half of the nationals and then split to Bronze/silver/gold fleet
for the second half. You could use the results after a split for your
single trophy race since it would go to the winner of the gold fleet.
As an alternative to the round-robin above the Topper's this year had 3
starts per race and allocated everyone to a start and they stayed in the
same group for the whole day. The colors were then re-allocated based on
the result to date each evening. This is slightly simpler for the
competitors but does have the downside that people don't actually sail
against everyone else.
I have just spent some time searching the archives which have
been very helpful.
For the first time the Australian International 420 Class
Association are considering running races as described by Huw
in message 7249. ie Split starts for the one race, the sum of
two colour groups for a start in a race, eg.
Yellow & Blue start 1 race 1
Red & Green start 2 race 2
The current program I am using cannot accommodate different
starts for the same race hence my interest in this program.
A couple of questions immediately come to mind, how do you
determine the winner of the Invitation Race or as in our case
a race of the series that has a memorial trophy attached to
it? And, is it possible to calculate consistency places in
this style of racing.
You also need to consider how you apply tie breaks A8.2 doesn’t really work as the tied boats may not have sailed each other in the last race… When running qualifier series we don’t use A8.1 and A8.2 and let ties remain. See attached sample
For an individual race there will always be 2 winners if you have 2
starts so you can’t determine a single winner.
Over a series things work out ok as long as you re-arrange the groups in
some fashion so that over time every one sails against everyone else.
So after 3 races everyone has sailed against each other at least once
and you continue with this.
Ideally the groups want to have an even spread so the best 4 sailors are
in separate groups rather than having the best in one otherwise the 2nd
best sailor would have a hard time winning and someone much lower in a
lower standard group could be beating them.
For longer series (ie nationals) re-flighting is often done either daily
or once in the middle based on the results to date in the series.
The initial flighting is usually based on results in the season in large
events if possible.
An alternative which the toppers do is to round-robin as above for the
first half of the nationals and then split to Bronze/silver/gold fleet
for the second half. You could use the results after a split for your
single trophy race since it would go to the winner of the gold fleet.
As an alternative to the round-robin above the Topper’s this year had 3
starts per race and allocated everyone to a start and they stayed in the
same group for the whole day. The colors were then re-allocated based on
the result to date each evening. This is slightly simpler for the
competitors but does have the downside that people don’t actually sail
against everyone else.
I have just spent some time searching the archives which have
been very helpful.
For the first time the Australian International 420 Class
Association are considering running races as described by Huw
in message 7249. ie Split starts for the one race, the sum of
two colour groups for a start in a race, eg.
Yellow & Blue start 1 race 1
Red & Green start 2 race 2
The current program I am using cannot accommodate different
starts for the same race hence my interest in this program.
A couple of questions immediately come to mind, how do you
determine the winner of the Invitation Race or as in our case
a race of the series that has a memorial trophy attached to
it? And, is it possible to calculate consistency places in
this style of racing.
For an individual race there will always be 2 winners if you have 2
starts so you can’t determine a single winner.
Over a series things work out ok as long as you re-arrange the groups in
some fashion so that over time every one sails against everyone else.
So after 3 races everyone has sailed against each other at least once
and you continue with this.
Ideally the groups want to have an even spread so the best 4 sailors are
in separate groups rather than having the best in one otherwise the 2nd
best sailor would have a hard time winning and someone much lower in a
lower standard group could be beating them.
For longer series (ie nationals) re-flighting is often done either daily
or once in the middle based on the results to date in the series.
The initial flighting is usually based on results in the season in large
events if possible.
An alternative which the toppers do is to round-robin as above for the
first half of the nationals and then split to Bronze/silver/gold fleet
for the second half. You could use the results after a split for your
single trophy race since it would go to the winner of the gold fleet.
As an alternative to the round-robin above the Topper’s this year had 3
starts per race and allocated everyone to a start and they stayed in the
same group for the whole day. The colors were then re-allocated based on
the result to date each evening. This is slightly simpler for the
competitors but does have the downside that people don’t actually sail
against everyone else.
I have just spent some time searching the archives which have
been very helpful.
For the first time the Australian International 420 Class
Association are considering running races as described by Huw
in message 7249. ie Split starts for the one race, the sum of
two colour groups for a start in a race, eg.
Yellow & Blue start 1 race 1
Red & Green start 2 race 2
The current program I am using cannot accommodate different
starts for the same race hence my interest in this program.
A couple of questions immediately come to mind, how do you
determine the winner of the Invitation Race or as in our case
a race of the series that has a memorial trophy attached to
it? And, is it possible to calculate consistency places in
this style of racing.
Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster. Sign up today.
You also need to consider how you apply tie breaks A8.2 doesn’t really work as the tied boats may not have sailed each other in the last race… When running qualifier series we don’t use A8.1 and A8.2 and let ties remain. See attached sample
Thanks Ralph… Sorry Sailwave works fine… what I was tring to say… poorly… was that when you are sailing round robin with not everyone sailing against each other in each race, you need to decide if using A8.1 and A8.2 is a fair or necessary way of breaking ties. When used as the tie breaker for a qualifier series to form the gold/silver/bronze fleets, many do not use A8.2 to break ties and let the ties remain, so 31 boats may be in the gold fleet rather than 30, when 30th and 31st places are tied for points.
For an individual race there will always be 2 winners if you have 2
starts so you can’t determine a single winner.
Over a series things work out ok as long as you re-arrange the groups in
some fashion so that over time every one sails against everyone else.
So after 3 races everyone has sailed against each other at least once
and you continue with this.
Ideally the groups want to have an even spread so the best 4 sailors are
in separate groups rather than having the best in one otherwise the 2nd
best sailor would have a hard time winning and someone much lower in a
lower standard group could be beating them.
For longer series (ie nationals) re-flighting is often done either daily
or once in the middle based on the results to date in the series.
The initial flighting is usually based on results in the season in large
events if possible.
An alternative which the toppers do is to round-robin as above for the
first half of the nationals and then split to Bronze/silver/gold fleet
for the second half. You could use the results after a split for your
single trophy race since it would go to the winner of the gold fleet.
As an alternative to the round-robin above the Topper’s this year had 3
starts per race and allocated everyone to a start and they stayed in the
same group for the whole day. The colors were then re-allocated based on
the result to date each evening. This is slightly simpler for the
competitors but does have the downside that people don’t actually sail
against everyone else.
I have just spent some time searching the archives which have
been very helpful.
For the first time the Australian International 420 Class
Association are considering running races as described by Huw
in message 7249. ie Split starts for the one race, the sum of
two colour groups for a start in a race, eg.
Yellow & Blue start 1 race 1
Red & Green start 2 race 2
The current program I am using cannot accommodate different
starts for the same race hence my interest in this program.
A couple of questions immediately come to mind, how do you
determine the winner of the Invitation Race or as in our case
a race of the series that has a memorial trophy attached to
it? And, is it possible to calculate consistency places in
this style of racing.
Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster. Sign up today.
You also need to consider how you apply tie breaks A8.2 doesn’t really work as the tied boats may not have sailed each other in the last race… When running qualifier series we don’t use A8.1 and A8.2 and let ties remain. See attached sample
And for the toppers they broke ties for allocating positions in the round robin but said that boats on the same points would not get split into different fleets in the final series.
That required a manual check after allocating them but was easy to do.
Thanks Ralph… Sorry Sailwave works fine… what I was tring to say… poorly… was that when you are sailing round robin with not everyone sailing against each other in each race, you need to decide if using A8.1 and A8.2 is a fair or necessary way of breaking ties. When used as the tie breaker for a qualifier series to form the gold/silver/bronze fleets, many do not use A8.2 to break ties and let the ties remain, so 31 boats may be in the gold fleet rather than 30, when 30th and 31st places are tied for points.
For an individual race there will always be 2 winners if you have 2
starts so you can’t determine a single winner.
Over a series things work out ok as long as you re-arrange the groups in
some fashion so that over time every one sails against everyone else.
So after 3 races everyone has sailed against each other at least once
and you continue with this.
Ideally the groups want to have an even spread so the best 4 sailors are
in separate groups rather than having the best in one otherwise the 2nd
best sailor would have a hard time winning and someone much lower in a
lower standard group could be beating them.
For longer series (ie nationals) re-flighting is often done either daily
or once in the middle based on the results to date in the series.
The initial flighting is usually based on results in the season in large
events if possible.
An alternative which the toppers do is to round-robin as above for the
first half of the nationals and then split to Bronze/silver/gold fleet
for the second half. You could use the results after a split for your
single trophy race since it would go to the winner of the gold fleet.
As an alternative to the round-robin above the Topper’s this year had 3
starts per race and allocated everyone to a start and they stayed in the
same group for the whole day. The colors were then re-allocated based on
the result to date each evening. This is slightly simpler for the
competitors but does have the downside that people don’t actually sail
against everyone else.
I have just spent some time searching the archives which have
been very helpful.
For the first time the Australian International 420 Class
Association are considering running races as described by Huw
in message 7249. ie Split starts for the one race, the sum of
two colour groups for a start in a race, eg.
Yellow & Blue start 1 race 1
Red & Green start 2 race 2
The current program I am using cannot accommodate different
starts for the same race hence my interest in this program.
A couple of questions immediately come to mind, how do you
determine the winner of the Invitation Race or as in our case
a race of the series that has a memorial trophy attached to
it? And, is it possible to calculate consistency places in
this style of racing.
Windows Live Hotmail now works up to 70% faster. Sign up today.
You also need to consider how you apply tie breaks A8.2 doesn’t really work as the tied boats may not have sailed each other in the last race… When running qualifier series we don’t use A8.1 and A8.2 and let ties remain. See attached sample