Hi Colin,
how do I use the Flight field in Sailwave? Need to do lots of
testing before the European for Optimists.
Regards
Anders Landenstad
Hi Anders,
The flight stuff is not operational yet. It is my highest priority again,
now that locales has been fixed. I will provide instructions for use when
it's released. Basically the ability to score flights is there now, it's
just that there is no flight column to show what flight each competitor is
in and no flight rotation after each race. You can test the basic scoring
mechanism by selecting "None (Appendix KE)" as the race tie break resolution
method and entering multiple 1stsm 2nds etc.
Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Anders Landenstad [mailto:anders.landenstad@telia.com]
Sent: 02 June 2004 08:39
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] FlightsHi Colin,
how do I use the Flight field in Sailwave? Need to do lots of
testing before the European for Optimists.Regards
Anders Landenstad
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Colin,
Glad to hear the news about the flights, look forward to testing it...
How are you planning to handle scoring codes DSQ, OCS etc. If you have 102
boats split into five flights of A= 21 boats, B=21 boats, C=20 boats, D=20
boats, E=20 boats. When flight A sails B an OCS would be 43 points, but if C
sails D it is only 41 points?
···
-------Original Message-------
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 06/02/04 01:27:32
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Flights
Hi Anders,
The flight stuff is not operational yet. It is my highest priority again,
now that locales has been fixed. I will provide instructions for use when
it's released. Basically the ability to score flights is there now, it's
just that there is no flight column to show what flight each competitor is
in and no flight rotation after each race. You can test the basic scoring
mechanism by selecting "None (Appendix KE)" as the race tie break resolution
method and entering multiple 1stsm 2nds etc.
Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Anders Landenstad [mailto:anders.landenstad@telia.com]
Sent: 02 June 2004 08:39
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] FlightsHi Colin,
how do I use the Flight field in Sailwave? Need to do lots of
testing before the European for Optimists.Regards
Anders Landenstad
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Mark,
How are you planning to handle scoring codes DSQ, OCS etc. If you have 102
boats split into five flights of A= 21 boats, B=21 boats, C=20 boats, D=20
boats, E=20 boats. When flight A sails B an OCS would be 43
points, but if C
sails D it is only 41 points?
Glad you asked that; it's something I've been thinking about. A principle
guy from the RYA and Appendix KE itself suggests that it's all very simple
and that OCS (etc) in your example is 103 points. i.e. even though the 102
competitors are physically split up to sail a race, it's in fact all one big
race for scoring purposes, with multiple firsts and seconds etc; the
rotation sorting things out as they go. This would make my life much
easier. Are your SIs specific about it? How have you (+Anders et al) done
it by hand in the past...?
Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com
···
---
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The SI's are not specific and could certainly be interpreted that way,
although historically they have been scored at the lower number. Scoring the
way you suggest would certainly provide an incentive not to be OCS!!! 103
points versus 41 points...
I would suggest that you proceed with your original plan to score all the
flights as one big race and OCS, DSQ, etc. would be 103 points.... We can
always use special scoring codes to score it as 41 or 43 points such as
DSQ41 and DSQ43...
Thanks
···
-------Original Message-------
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 06/03/04 06:50:43
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Flights
Hi Mark,
How are you planning to handle scoring codes DSQ, OCS etc. If you have 102
boats split into five flights of A= 21 boats, B=21 boats, C=20 boats, D=20
boats, E=20 boats. When flight A sails B an OCS would be 43
points, but if C
sails D it is only 41 points?
Glad you asked that; it's something I've been thinking about. A principle
guy from the RYA and Appendix KE itself suggests that it's all very simple
and that OCS (etc) in your example is 103 points. i.e. even though the 102
competitors are physically split up to sail a race, it's in fact all one big
race for scoring purposes, with multiple firsts and seconds etc; the
rotation sorting things out as they go. This would make my life much
easier. Are your SIs specific about it? How have you (+Anders et al) done
it by hand in the past...?
Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi
In asymmetric sailing where there is a qualification series, followed by
Finals e.g Gold, Silver etc we include the following SI in the section on
scoring
"In the Qualification series, a boat that did not start, did not finish,
retired after finishing or was disqualified, will be scored points for the
finishing place one more than the total number of boats in the largest
group. In the Final series, this score will be total number of boats in her
group. This changes rule A4.2"
Hope this helps or does it just present another headache for Colin with more
than one method required? ;-)))))
Regards
Ralph Tingle
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2004 15:09
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Flights
The SI's are not specific and could certainly be interpreted that way,
although historically they have been scored at the lower number. Scoring the
way you suggest would certainly provide an incentive not to be OCS!!! 103
points versus 41 points...
I would suggest that you proceed with your original plan to score all the
flights as one big race and OCS, DSQ, etc. would be 103 points.... We can
always use special scoring codes to score it as 41 or 43 points such as
DSQ41 and DSQ43...
Thanks
-------Original Message-------
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 06/03/04 06:50:43
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Flights
Hi Mark,
How are you planning to handle scoring codes DSQ, OCS etc. If you have 102
boats split into five flights of A= 21 boats, B=21 boats, C=20 boats, D=20
boats, E=20 boats. When flight A sails B an OCS would be 43
points, but if C
sails D it is only 41 points?
Glad you asked that; it's something I've been thinking about. A principle
guy from the RYA and Appendix KE itself suggests that it's all very simple
and that OCS (etc) in your example is 103 points. i.e. even though the 102
competitors are physically split up to sail a race, it's in fact all one big
race for scoring purposes, with multiple firsts and seconds etc; the
rotation sorting things out as they go. This would make my life much
easier. Are your SIs specific about it? How have you (+Anders et al) done
it by hand in the past...?
Regards,
Colin
---
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Hi Ralph,
Thanks; that makes sense doesn't it; stopping any OCS etc being less than a
finish in another fight. It's no problem, I can do various methods, ditto
to Mark, Anders et al.
Would you expect to score the final series in a separate file - or see all
qualifying and final races in one long series... Ditto to Mark, Anders et
al.
Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Tingle [mailto:rat@attat.com]
Sent: 03 June 2004 16:25
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] FlightsHi
In asymmetric sailing where there is a qualification series, followed by
Finals e.g Gold, Silver etc we include the following SI in the section on
scoring"In the Qualification series, a boat that did not start, did not finish,
retired after finishing or was disqualified, will be scored points for the
finishing place one more than the total number of boats in the largest
group. In the Final series, this score will be total number of
boats in her
group. This changes rule A4.2"Hope this helps or does it just present another headache for
Colin with more
than one method required? ;-)))))Regards
Ralph Tingle-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2004 15:09
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] FlightsThe SI's are not specific and could certainly be interpreted that way,
although historically they have been scored at the lower number.
Scoring the
way you suggest would certainly provide an incentive not to be OCS!!! 103
points versus 41 points...I would suggest that you proceed with your original plan to score all the
flights as one big race and OCS, DSQ, etc. would be 103 points.... We can
always use special scoring codes to score it as 41 or 43 points such as
DSQ41 and DSQ43...Thanks
-------Original Message-------
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 06/03/04 06:50:43
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Flights
Hi Mark,
> How are you planning to handle scoring codes DSQ, OCS etc. If
you have 102> boats split into five flights of A= 21 boats, B=21 boats, C=20
boats, D=20> boats, E=20 boats. When flight A sails B an OCS would be 43
> points, but if C
> sails D it is only 41 points?
Glad you asked that; it's something I've been thinking about. A principle
guy from the RYA and Appendix KE itself suggests that it's all very simple
and that OCS (etc) in your example is 103 points. i.e. even
though the 102competitors are physically split up to sail a race, it's in fact
all one bigrace for scoring purposes, with multiple firsts and seconds etc; the
rotation sorting things out as they go. This would make my life much
easier. Are your SIs specific about it? How have you (+Anders
et al) doneit by hand in the past...?
Regards,
Colin
---
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Hi Colin
Showing all the results in one file obviously makes sense but how it is
done, will depend on the scoring system.
At one time, the position at the end of the Qualification series was carried
forward to the Finals series as a non-discardable 'race' result.
Looking at various international events (especially Olympic Classes) the
system now tends to be to count all results from race one to the end.
After end of race x, the fleets are split into Gold, Silver, Bronze etc and
from that point, have their own races (and starts) with OCS etc based upon
their own group size.
I now favour the current system of counting all races, if only on the basis
that it is good preparation for International events (Sorry non-Brits but
every bit helps in the quest for medals!!)
If you want examples, have a look at the 49er results for Olympic Class
Regattas. Other classes do a split if the fleet is large enough.
Out of interest, ISAF tend to suggest fleet sizes of approx 60 before
splitting into flights but 49ers normally have 25 in the Gold fleet & approx
same numbers for Silver etc, depending on entry numbers
Regards
Ralph
PS: Are there any Topper people out there who would like to comment? As with
Optimists - they are a BIG fleet running flights without a Finals series
···
From my own experience, having used the 'Qualification position' principle,
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 03 June 2004 18:41
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Flights
Hi Ralph,
Thanks; that makes sense doesn't it; stopping any OCS etc being less than a
finish in another fight. It's no problem, I can do various methods, ditto
to Mark, Anders et al.
Would you expect to score the final series in a separate file - or see all
qualifying and final races in one long series... Ditto to Mark, Anders et
al.
Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Tingle [mailto:rat@attat.com]
Sent: 03 June 2004 16:25
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] FlightsHi
In asymmetric sailing where there is a qualification series, followed by
Finals e.g Gold, Silver etc we include the following SI in the section on
scoring"In the Qualification series, a boat that did not start, did not finish,
retired after finishing or was disqualified, will be scored points for the
finishing place one more than the total number of boats in the largest
group. In the Final series, this score will be total number of
boats in her
group. This changes rule A4.2"Hope this helps or does it just present another headache for
Colin with more
than one method required? ;-)))))Regards
Ralph Tingle-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2004 15:09
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] FlightsThe SI's are not specific and could certainly be interpreted that way,
although historically they have been scored at the lower number.
Scoring the
way you suggest would certainly provide an incentive not to be OCS!!! 103
points versus 41 points...I would suggest that you proceed with your original plan to score all the
flights as one big race and OCS, DSQ, etc. would be 103 points.... We can
always use special scoring codes to score it as 41 or 43 points such as
DSQ41 and DSQ43...Thanks
-------Original Message-------
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 06/03/04 06:50:43
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Flights
Hi Mark,
> How are you planning to handle scoring codes DSQ, OCS etc. If
you have 102> boats split into five flights of A= 21 boats, B=21 boats, C=20
boats, D=20> boats, E=20 boats. When flight A sails B an OCS would be 43
> points, but if C
> sails D it is only 41 points?
Glad you asked that; it's something I've been thinking about. A principle
guy from the RYA and Appendix KE itself suggests that it's all very simple
and that OCS (etc) in your example is 103 points. i.e. even
though the 102competitors are physically split up to sail a race, it's in fact
all one bigrace for scoring purposes, with multiple firsts and seconds etc; the
rotation sorting things out as they go. This would make my life much
easier. Are your SIs specific about it? How have you (+Anders
et al) doneit by hand in the past...?
Regards,
Colin
---
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Dear Ralph and Colin,
The race programme for this years Topper Nationals is based on 4 flights
(changing daily) completing a total of 8 races and then Gold and Silver
fleets for a further 8 races. The scores for the Qualification Series are to
be halved and then carried over to the final series.
Regards,
John.
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Tingle [mailto:rat@attat.com]
Sent: 04 June 2004 10:54
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Flights
Hi Colin
Showing all the results in one file obviously makes sense but how it is
done, will depend on the scoring system.
At one time, the position at the end of the Qualification series was carried
forward to the Finals series as a non-discardable 'race' result.
Looking at various international events (especially Olympic Classes) the
system now tends to be to count all results from race one to the end.
After end of race x, the fleets are split into Gold, Silver, Bronze etc and
from that point, have their own races (and starts) with OCS etc based upon
their own group size.
From my own experience, having used the 'Qualification position' principle,
I now favour the current system of counting all races, if only on the basis
that it is good preparation for International events (Sorry non-Brits but
every bit helps in the quest for medals!!)
If you want examples, have a look at the 49er results for Olympic Class
Regattas. Other classes do a split if the fleet is large enough.
Out of interest, ISAF tend to suggest fleet sizes of approx 60 before
splitting into flights but 49ers normally have 25 in the Gold fleet & approx
same numbers for Silver etc, depending on entry numbers
Regards
Ralph
PS: Are there any Topper people out there who would like to comment? As with
Optimists - they are a BIG fleet running flights without a Finals series
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 03 June 2004 18:41
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Flights
Hi Ralph,
Thanks; that makes sense doesn't it; stopping any OCS etc being less than a
finish in another fight. It's no problem, I can do various methods, ditto
to Mark, Anders et al.
Would you expect to score the final series in a separate file - or see all
qualifying and final races in one long series... Ditto to Mark, Anders et
al.
Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Tingle [mailto:rat@attat.com]
Sent: 03 June 2004 16:25
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] FlightsHi
In asymmetric sailing where there is a qualification series, followed by
Finals e.g Gold, Silver etc we include the following SI in the section on
scoring"In the Qualification series, a boat that did not start, did not finish,
retired after finishing or was disqualified, will be scored points for the
finishing place one more than the total number of boats in the largest
group. In the Final series, this score will be total number of
boats in her
group. This changes rule A4.2"Hope this helps or does it just present another headache for
Colin with more
than one method required? ;-)))))Regards
Ralph Tingle-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2004 15:09
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] FlightsThe SI's are not specific and could certainly be interpreted that way,
although historically they have been scored at the lower number.
Scoring the
way you suggest would certainly provide an incentive not to be OCS!!! 103
points versus 41 points...I would suggest that you proceed with your original plan to score all the
flights as one big race and OCS, DSQ, etc. would be 103 points.... We can
always use special scoring codes to score it as 41 or 43 points such as
DSQ41 and DSQ43...Thanks
-------Original Message-------
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 06/03/04 06:50:43
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Flights
Hi Mark,
> How are you planning to handle scoring codes DSQ, OCS etc. If
you have 102> boats split into five flights of A= 21 boats, B=21 boats, C=20
boats, D=20> boats, E=20 boats. When flight A sails B an OCS would be 43
> points, but if C
> sails D it is only 41 points?
Glad you asked that; it's something I've been thinking about. A principle
guy from the RYA and Appendix KE itself suggests that it's all very simple
and that OCS (etc) in your example is 103 points. i.e. even
though the 102competitors are physically split up to sail a race, it's in fact
all one bigrace for scoring purposes, with multiple firsts and seconds etc; the
rotation sorting things out as they go. This would make my life much
easier. Are your SIs specific about it? How have you (+Anders
et al) doneit by hand in the past...?
Regards,
Colin
---
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In qualification series we normally use points equal to the number of boats
in the combined flights +1, but the other method would work just as well.
···
-------Original Message-------
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 06/03/04 08:32:59
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Flights
Hi
In asymmetric sailing where there is a qualification series, followed by
Finals e.g Gold, Silver etc we include the following SI in the section on
scoring
"In the Qualification series, a boat that did not start, did not finish,
retired after finishing or was disqualified, will be scored points for the
finishing place one more than the total number of boats in the largest
group. In the Final series, this score will be total number of boats in her
group. This changes rule A4.2"
Hope this helps or does it just present another headache for Colin with more
than one method required? ;-)))))
Regards
Ralph Tingle
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
Sent: 03 June 2004 15:09
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Flights
The SI's are not specific and could certainly be interpreted that way,
although historically they have been scored at the lower number. Scoring the
way you suggest would certainly provide an incentive not to be OCS!!! 103
points versus 41 points...
I would suggest that you proceed with your original plan to score all the
flights as one big race and OCS, DSQ, etc. would be 103 points.... We can
always use special scoring codes to score it as 41 or 43 points such as
DSQ41 and DSQ43...
Thanks
-------Original Message-------
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 06/03/04 06:50:43
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Flights
Hi Mark,
How are you planning to handle scoring codes DSQ, OCS etc. If you have 102
boats split into five flights of A= 21 boats, B=21 boats, C=20 boats, D=20
boats, E=20 boats. When flight A sails B an OCS would be 43
points, but if C
sails D it is only 41 points?
Glad you asked that; it's something I've been thinking about. A principle
guy from the RYA and Appendix KE itself suggests that it's all very simple
and that OCS (etc) in your example is 103 points. i.e. even though the 102
competitors are physically split up to sail a race, it's in fact all one big
race for scoring purposes, with multiple firsts and seconds etc; the
rotation sorting things out as they go. This would make my life much
easier. Are your SIs specific about it? How have you (+Anders et al) done
it by hand in the past...?
Regards,
Colin
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Thanks Ralph. CJ.
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Tingle [mailto:rat@attat.com]
Sent: 04 June 2004 10:54
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] FlightsHi Colin
Showing all the results in one file obviously makes sense but how it is
done, will depend on the scoring system.
At one time, the position at the end of the Qualification series
was carried
forward to the Finals series as a non-discardable 'race' result.
Looking at various international events (especially Olympic Classes) the
system now tends to be to count all results from race one to the end.
After end of race x, the fleets are split into Gold, Silver,
Bronze etc and
from that point, have their own races (and starts) with OCS etc based upon
their own group size.>From my own experience, having used the 'Qualification position'
principle,
I now favour the current system of counting all races, if only on
the basis
that it is good preparation for International events (Sorry non-Brits but
every bit helps in the quest for medals!!)If you want examples, have a look at the 49er results for Olympic Class
Regattas. Other classes do a split if the fleet is large enough.
Out of interest, ISAF tend to suggest fleet sizes of approx 60 before
splitting into flights but 49ers normally have 25 in the Gold
fleet & approx
same numbers for Silver etc, depending on entry numbersRegards
RalphPS: Are there any Topper people out there who would like to
comment? As with
Optimists - they are a BIG fleet running flights without a Finals series-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 03 June 2004 18:41
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] FlightsHi Ralph,
Thanks; that makes sense doesn't it; stopping any OCS etc being
less than a
finish in another fight. It's no problem, I can do various methods, ditto
to Mark, Anders et al.Would you expect to score the final series in a separate file - or see all
qualifying and final races in one long series... Ditto to Mark, Anders et
al.Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ralph Tingle [mailto:rat@attat.com]
> Sent: 03 June 2004 16:25
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] Flights
>
>
> Hi
> In asymmetric sailing where there is a qualification series, followed by
> Finals e.g Gold, Silver etc we include the following SI in the
section on
> scoring
>
> "In the Qualification series, a boat that did not start, did not finish,
> retired after finishing or was disqualified, will be scored
points for the
> finishing place one more than the total number of boats in the largest
> group. In the Final series, this score will be total number of
> boats in her
> group. This changes rule A4.2"
>
> Hope this helps or does it just present another headache for
> Colin with more
> than one method required? ;-)))))
>
> Regards
> Ralph Tingle
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 03 June 2004 15:09
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] Flights
>
>
> The SI's are not specific and could certainly be interpreted that way,
> although historically they have been scored at the lower number.
> Scoring the
> way you suggest would certainly provide an incentive not to be
OCS!!! 103
> points versus 41 points...
>
>
>
> I would suggest that you proceed with your original plan to
score all the
> flights as one big race and OCS, DSQ, etc. would be 103
points.... We can
> always use special scoring codes to score it as 41 or 43 points such as
> DSQ41 and DSQ43...
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
>
>
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
>
> Date: 06/03/04 06:50:43
>
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
>
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] Flights
>
>
>
> Hi Mark,
>
>
>
> > How are you planning to handle scoring codes DSQ, OCS etc. If
> you have 102
>
> > boats split into five flights of A= 21 boats, B=21 boats, C=20
> boats, D=20
>
> > boats, E=20 boats. When flight A sails B an OCS would be 43
>
> > points, but if C
>
> > sails D it is only 41 points?
>
>
>
> Glad you asked that; it's something I've been thinking about.
A principle
>
> guy from the RYA and Appendix KE itself suggests that it's all
very simple
>
> and that OCS (etc) in your example is 103 points. i.e. even
> though the 102
>
> competitors are physically split up to sail a race, it's in fact
> all one big
>
> race for scoring purposes, with multiple firsts and seconds etc; the
>
> rotation sorting things out as they go. This would make my life much
>
> easier. Are your SIs specific about it? How have you (+Anders
> et al) done
>
> it by hand in the past...?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Colin
>
> www.sailwave.com
>
>
>
> ---
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