FW: start/finish times

Hi all,

I would like to run some past the group...

Presently you can enter results as positions, elapsed times or start/finish
times. In an effort to simplify, would I be removing anything from
usability if I dumped the elapsed method - using the start/finish method
instead with a start time of 00:00:00... The 0 starts could be
appropriately defaulted etc ensuring that there was no extra effort. I ask
because the Auto checkbox can cause confusion and can be removed with this
generalisation; it also simplifies other areas of Sailwave like the
Enter-By-Sail-Number wizard...

Other stuff...

� I've changed the registration scheme from sending you a file to the more
usual method of sending you a registration name (typically the name of your
club or event) and a registration code which you enter via the
Help+ApplyRegistration menu. All currently registered users will receive
registration codes before version 1.46 beta 1 is released. To satisfy some
users that are mobile (LindaJo) - using different clubs computers each week,
you will also receive a registration code than once applied will time out
after N days - allowing you to be registered for the duration of an event
while using somebody else's computer.

� Like the bathroom, 1.46 beta 1 (possibly 2.0 as suggested) is getting
there, apologies (again) for the delay...

� Google has been updated for this month and there are now around 2900
uploaded results.

� My PHP/mySQL skills are gradually improving; thanks to those that pointed
me at LAMP - PHP and mySQL do work wonderfully together; lots of irons in
the fire in this respect...

� The development plan has been removed from the web site.

Regards to everybody,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

PS: Please don't be afraid to beat me up about promises that don't seem to
be happening...

···

---
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Colin,

The only thing to point out is that for long ocean races most of our
races take longer than 24 hours so we have to use elapsed time. If
you made the finished time such that it could accept more than 24
hours, that would do the same job.

2002 ORCV Rudder Cup
http://www.orcv.org.au

Dear All,

This topic floated by Colin has made the group active again :wink:

I advocate using real time, 24-hr clock times, for ALL time recording. Why?

The number of times in my early days of being a race officer that my
timekeeper or I pressed the wrong button on a stop watch and lost the time.

When a sequence of starts are being run, when does one start the stopwatch
    - at the first warning signal
    - at the first start

When General Recall is involved it is much easier to work things out when a
sequence is involved if real times are used not elapsed times.

If there are problems with different watches being used for start and finish
times it is possible to sort things out if both watches being are using real
time. If stop watches are used then by the time a problem as been noted the
watches are very likely to have been reset. It is also possible to compare
race team times with competitors times if real 24-hr clock times are used.

It is probably true that most clubs use a computer program to calculate race
results - that is why we are all contributing to this thread(!). Computers
programs once fully sorted are less likely to make mathematical errors than
harassed race teams trying to work out the correct elapsed times.

So Colin's option of only having the capability of entering Start/Finish
times covers the situation of those wanting to enter elapsed times only, by
the fact that the start time defaults to 0(zero). But from the needs of
clubs that have multiple start sequence there could beneficially be a
mechanism for entering multiple start times or start time offsets from the
first warning signal. Instead of remembering as in the present evolution of
SailWave to enter the appropriate start time for the first boat to finish in
each Fleet. Suggestion - perhaps an extra tab on the Race Information, i.e.
where you can record a name for the race, date of race, wind strength &
direction etc.

Finally Colin keep up the fantastic work. Hope you finish the decorating in
time for Christmas. PS - How close is the electronic import of finish
times? FYI - We will be testing our PROlog application for real shortly.

Kind regards to all,
Huw Pearce
RYA Open Meeting Race Officer
Club Secretary, Datchet Water Sailing Club

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 12:34 PM
To: Sailwave User Group
Subject: [sailwave] FW: start/finish times

Hi all,

I would like to run some past the group...

Presently you can enter results as positions, elapsed times or start/finish
times. In an effort to simplify, would I be removing anything from
usability if I dumped the elapsed method - using the start/finish method
instead with a start time of 00:00:00... The 0 starts could be
appropriately defaulted etc ensuring that there was no extra effort. I ask
because the Auto checkbox can cause confusion and can be removed with this
generalisation; it also simplifies other areas of Sailwave like the
Enter-By-Sail-Number wizard...

Other stuff...

I've changed the registration scheme from sending you a file to the more
usual method of sending you a registration name (typically the name of your
club or event) and a registration code which you enter via the
Help+ApplyRegistration menu. All currently registered users will receive
registration codes before version 1.46 beta 1 is released. To satisfy some
users that are mobile (LindaJo) - using different clubs computers each week,
you will also receive a registration code than once applied will time out
after N days - allowing you to be registered for the duration of an event
while using somebody else's computer.

Like the bathroom, 1.46 beta 1 (possibly 2.0 as suggested) is getting
there, apologies (again) for the delay...

Google has been updated for this month and there are now around 2900
uploaded results.

My PHP/mySQL skills are gradually improving; thanks to those that pointed
me at LAMP - PHP and mySQL do work wonderfully together; lots of irons in
the fire in this respect...

The development plan has been removed from the web site.

Regards to everybody,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

PS: Please don't be afraid to beat me up about promises that don't seem to
be happening...

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Hi,

The only thing to point out is that for long ocean races most of our

races take longer than 24 hours so we have to use elapsed time. If
you made the finished time such that it could accept more than 24
hours, that would do the same job.<

I do plan to optionally allow date+time as start/finish times: i.e. start
23/10/02 12:10:00 finish 1/2/03 20:34:45.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Ocean Racing Club of Victoria Rudder Cup
[mailto:gillmm@northlink.co.uk]
Sent: 06 December 2002 23:52
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: FW: start/finish times

Colin,

The only thing to point out is that for long ocean races most of our
races take longer than 24 hours so we have to use elapsed time. If
you made the finished time such that it could accept more than 24
hours, that would do the same job.

2002 ORCV Rudder Cup
http://www.orcv.org.au

-!- eliminate spam once and for all http://www.giantcompany.com/ -!-

http://www.sailwave.com/

Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
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I do plan to optionally allow date+time as start/finish times: i.e.

start

23/10/02 12:10:00 finish 1/2/03 20:34:45.

Thanks Colin,

That would be a "nice to have".

Ocean Racing Club of Victoria
2002 Rudder Cup
http://www.orcv.org.au

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Jenkins" <colin@s...> wrote:

I havent been following this thread very closely, but Am I missing
something. Where I race, time on distance handicap is practically the only
system used for handicaping. With time on distance, the starting time
entered really doesn't matter. I.E., the start time can be off by 1 min, 5
min or 5 days, and the proper corrected finish time will be computed.
Obviously, the correct elapsed time would not be computered but the proper
(corrected) order of finsh would be. Do you all use time on time?

George F. Goodall
1986 Catalina 30 TRBS
"Frantic"
georgeg305@cox.net

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 7:22 AM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Re: FW: start/finish times

Hi,

>The only thing to point out is that for long ocean races most of our
races take longer than 24 hours so we have to use elapsed time. If
you made the finished time such that it could accept more than 24
hours, that would do the same job.<

I do plan to optionally allow date+time as start/finish times: i.e. start
23/10/02 12:10:00 finish 1/2/03 20:34:45.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ocean Racing Club of Victoria Rudder Cup
[mailto:gillmm@northlink.co.uk]
Sent: 06 December 2002 23:52
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: FW: start/finish times

Colin,

The only thing to point out is that for long ocean races most of our
races take longer than 24 hours so we have to use elapsed time. If
you made the finished time such that it could accept more than 24
hours, that would do the same job.

2002 ORCV Rudder Cup
http://www.orcv.org.au

-!- eliminate spam once and for all http://www.giantcompany.com/ -!-

http://www.sailwave.com/

Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
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Hi George,

> Do you all use time on time? <

I *think* the answer to that is yes we do. I don't sail bigger boats
(I sail an F18/Dart18 cats) but time-on-distance came as something
new to me when US clubs started using Sailwave and asked how to set
it up; but it could (and still) just be me being ignorant of it over
here... PHRF for example certainly seems to be a US thing...

Regards,
Colin J

Our club has also gone to the use of time of day scoring primarily
for the reasons that were listed in the previous post. Could
Sailwave be made to ask for the starting time for the first boat in
each fleet? The default could be 00:00:00. We have multiple fleets
at all of our regattas. When entering results with sail number
wizard, it is easy to miss the 1st boat in a fleet because the sail
numbers are all similar.

Is the import of a string of finish times on the list of things to
add to Sailwave? We use an Alge Timing timer at our large regattas
(100 boats) that can export a string of times to a PC. It would save
a lot of time & eliminate fat finger errors if we could have sail
number wizard offer up the next time in a string of times as each
sail number is typed in.

Happy New Year to All;
Tom Liston
Scoring Chairman
Catamaran Racing Association of Michigan (CRAM)

Dear All,

This topic floated by Colin has made the group active again :wink:

I advocate using real time, 24-hr clock times, for ALL time

recording. Why?

The number of times in my early days of being a race officer that my
timekeeper or I pressed the wrong button on a stop watch and lost

the time.

When a sequence of starts are being run, when does one start the

stopwatch

    - at the first warning signal
    - at the first start

When General Recall is involved it is much easier to work things

out when a

sequence is involved if real times are used not elapsed times.

If there are problems with different watches being used for start

and finish

times it is possible to sort things out if both watches being are

using real

time. If stop watches are used then by the time a problem as been

noted the

watches are very likely to have been reset. It is also possible to

compare

race team times with competitors times if real 24-hr clock times

are used.

It is probably true that most clubs use a computer program to

calculate race

results - that is why we are all contributing to this thread(!).

Computers

programs once fully sorted are less likely to make mathematical

errors than

harassed race teams trying to work out the correct elapsed times.

So Colin's option of only having the capability of entering

Start/Finish

times covers the situation of those wanting to enter elapsed times

only, by

the fact that the start time defaults to 0(zero). But from the

needs of

clubs that have multiple start sequence there could beneficially be

a

mechanism for entering multiple start times or start time offsets

from the

first warning signal. Instead of remembering as in the present

evolution of

SailWave to enter the appropriate start time for the first boat to

finish in

each Fleet. Suggestion - perhaps an extra tab on the Race

Information, i.e.

where you can record a name for the race, date of race, wind

strength &

direction etc.

Finally Colin keep up the fantastic work. Hope you finish the

decorating in

time for Christmas. PS - How close is the electronic import of

finish

times? FYI - We will be testing our PROlog application for real

shortly.

Kind regards to all,
Huw Pearce
RYA Open Meeting Race Officer
Club Secretary, Datchet Water Sailing Club

From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@s…]
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 12:34 PM
To: Sailwave User Group
Subject: [sailwave] FW: start/finish times

Hi all,

I would like to run some past the group...

Presently you can enter results as positions, elapsed times or

start/finish

times. In an effort to simplify, would I be removing anything from
usability if I dumped the elapsed method - using the start/finish

method

instead with a start time of 00:00:00... The 0 starts could be
appropriately defaulted etc ensuring that there was no extra

effort. I ask

because the Auto checkbox can cause confusion and can be removed

with this

generalisation; it also simplifies other areas of Sailwave like the
Enter-By-Sail-Number wizard...

Other stuff...

I've changed the registration scheme from sending you a file to

the more

usual method of sending you a registration name (typically the name

of your

club or event) and a registration code which you enter via the
Help+ApplyRegistration menu. All currently registered users will

receive

registration codes before version 1.46 beta 1 is released. To

satisfy some

users that are mobile (LindaJo) - using different clubs computers

each week,

you will also receive a registration code than once applied will

time out

after N days - allowing you to be registered for the duration of an

event

while using somebody else's computer.

Like the bathroom, 1.46 beta 1 (possibly 2.0 as suggested) is

getting

there, apologies (again) for the delay...

Google has been updated for this month and there are now around

2900

uploaded results.

My PHP/mySQL skills are gradually improving; thanks to those that

pointed

me at LAMP - PHP and mySQL do work wonderfully together; lots of

irons in

the fire in this respect...

The development plan has been removed from the web site.

Regards to everybody,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

PS: Please don't be afraid to beat me up about promises that don't

seem to

be happening...

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 02/12/2002

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!-

http://www.sailwave.com/

Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
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···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Huw Pearce" <huw.pearce@b...> wrote:

-----Original Message-----

Hello tiliston2000,

Monday, January 6, 2003, 7:22:33 AM, you wrote:

Our club has also gone to the use of time of day scoring primarily
for the reasons that were listed in the previous post. Could
Sailwave be made to ask for the starting time for the first boat in
each fleet? The default could be 00:00:00. We have multiple fleets
at all of our regattas. When entering results with sail number
wizard, it is easy to miss the 1st boat in a fleet because the sail
numbers are all similar.

Rather than having SailWave ask for the start time when you want to
enter the finish time of the first boat to finish each class, I'd
prefer to have it ask for the start times of each class (all together)
_before_ entering any finish times. That seems to me to be easier for
the user.

···

--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI Vancouver, B.C., Canada
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver-webpages.com/van-ps

Hi Tom,

Both items are fairly high up on the todo list.

You can enter the start time for each fleet now (but not in a very
nice way) by picking *any* boat in a particular fleet/race and
entering a start time - then when you run the sailno wizard,
Sailwave'll pick it up from the appropriate fleet when you enter a
sail number.

Can you email me a Alge timer file for refernce.

CJ

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "tiliston2000 <tiliston@c...>"
<tiliston@c...> wrote:

Our club has also gone to the use of time of day scoring primarily
for the reasons that were listed in the previous post. Could
Sailwave be made to ask for the starting time for the first boat in
each fleet? The default could be 00:00:00. We have multiple

fleets

at all of our regattas. When entering results with sail number
wizard, it is easy to miss the 1st boat in a fleet because the sail
numbers are all similar.

Is the import of a string of finish times on the list of things to
add to Sailwave? We use an Alge Timing timer at our large regattas
(100 boats) that can export a string of times to a PC. It would

save

a lot of time & eliminate fat finger errors if we could have sail
number wizard offer up the next time in a string of times as each
sail number is typed in.

Happy New Year to All;
Tom Liston
Scoring Chairman
Catamaran Racing Association of Michigan (CRAM)

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Huw Pearce" <huw.pearce@b...>

wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> This topic floated by Colin has made the group active again :wink:
>
> I advocate using real time, 24-hr clock times, for ALL time
recording. Why?
>
> The number of times in my early days of being a race officer that

my

> timekeeper or I pressed the wrong button on a stop watch and lost
the time.
>
> When a sequence of starts are being run, when does one start the
stopwatch
> - at the first warning signal
> - at the first start
>
> When General Recall is involved it is much easier to work things
out when a
> sequence is involved if real times are used not elapsed times.
>
> If there are problems with different watches being used for start
and finish
> times it is possible to sort things out if both watches being are
using real
> time. If stop watches are used then by the time a problem as

been

noted the
> watches are very likely to have been reset. It is also possible

to

compare
> race team times with competitors times if real 24-hr clock times
are used.
>
> It is probably true that most clubs use a computer program to
calculate race
> results - that is why we are all contributing to this thread(!).
Computers
> programs once fully sorted are less likely to make mathematical
errors than
> harassed race teams trying to work out the correct elapsed times.
>
> So Colin's option of only having the capability of entering
Start/Finish
> times covers the situation of those wanting to enter elapsed

times

only, by
> the fact that the start time defaults to 0(zero). But from the
needs of
> clubs that have multiple start sequence there could beneficially

be

a
> mechanism for entering multiple start times or start time offsets
from the
> first warning signal. Instead of remembering as in the present
evolution of
> SailWave to enter the appropriate start time for the first boat

to

finish in
> each Fleet. Suggestion - perhaps an extra tab on the Race
Information, i.e.
> where you can record a name for the race, date of race, wind
strength &
> direction etc.
>
> Finally Colin keep up the fantastic work. Hope you finish the
decorating in
> time for Christmas. PS - How close is the electronic import of
finish
> times? FYI - We will be testing our PROlog application for real
shortly.
>
> Kind regards to all,
> Huw Pearce
> RYA Open Meeting Race Officer
> Club Secretary, Datchet Water Sailing Club
>
>
> From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@s…]
> Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 12:34 PM
> To: Sailwave User Group
> Subject: [sailwave] FW: start/finish times
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I would like to run some past the group…
>
> Presently you can enter results as positions, elapsed times or
start/finish
> times. In an effort to simplify, would I be removing anything

from

> usability if I dumped the elapsed method - using the start/finish
method
> instead with a start time of 00:00:00... The 0 starts could be
> appropriately defaulted etc ensuring that there was no extra
effort. I ask
> because the Auto checkbox can cause confusion and can be removed
with this
> generalisation; it also simplifies other areas of Sailwave like

the

> Enter-By-Sail-Number wizard...
>
> Other stuff...
>
> I've changed the registration scheme from sending you a file to
the more
> usual method of sending you a registration name (typically the

name

of your
> club or event) and a registration code which you enter via the
> Help+ApplyRegistration menu. All currently registered users will
receive
> registration codes before version 1.46 beta 1 is released. To
satisfy some
> users that are mobile (LindaJo) - using different clubs computers
each week,
> you will also receive a registration code than once applied will
time out
> after N days - allowing you to be registered for the duration of

an

event
> while using somebody else's computer.
>
> Like the bathroom, 1.46 beta 1 (possibly 2.0 as suggested) is
getting
> there, apologies (again) for the delay...
>
> Google has been updated for this month and there are now around
2900
> uploaded results.
>
> My PHP/mySQL skills are gradually improving; thanks to those

that

pointed
> me at LAMP - PHP and mySQL do work wonderfully together; lots of
irons in
> the fire in this respect...
>
> The development plan has been removed from the web site.
>
> Regards to everybody,
> Colin J
> www.sailwave.com
>
> PS: Please don't be afraid to beat me up about promises that

don't

seem to
> be happening...
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 02/12/2002
>
>
> -!- eliminate spam once and for all

http://www.giantcompany.com/ -

···

> -----Original Message-----
!-
>
> http://www.sailwave.com/
>
> Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
> sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/