Hand-held finishing?

Imported from Yahoo
1

I'm about to put in a wireless network at our club (lucky us!) which, with
an external antenna, should be able to cover our start/finish area. This
has got me thinking as to how to put this to use in race scoring.

One obvious solution is to have a laptop on the committee boat, on which we
can finish boats, with the data stored centrally.

However, I'm wary of taking laptops on boats - water etc. don't mix with
expensive kit. So how about a handheld - Palm or otherwise?

Of course, if we use a handheld, this is not related to the wireless aspect
so much, but how we could use it to ease the RO's job when finishing.

I happy to develop application for a Palm Pilot. so what I'm interested in
from the Sailwave group is ideas as to the best user interface to use, to
make things easy. Bear in mind the size of the screen!

(I'm assuming I can write a conduit which will allow the download/upload of
competitors etc. from Sailwave data to the handheld.)

So - thoughts please!

James

2

Why would you re-develop the wheel?

Instead of using a palm, why not use a hand held running windows CE?

If you only want if for scoring, why not check out ebay, pick up a very
cheap pentium 100-200 laptop for a fraction of the cost of a palm, it only
has to run windows 95, so 32mb ram 500mb hard disk would be fine. wrap it
in plastic if your worried about it. you might find one of your
member has a old laptop laying around, perfect for the job.

Cheers

Darren Flanagan

···

At 09:44 PM 2/11/2003, James Lavery wrote:

I'm about to put in a wireless network at our club (lucky us!) which, with
an external antenna, should be able to cover our start/finish area. This
has got me thinking as to how to put this to use in race scoring.

One obvious solution is to have a laptop on the committee boat, on which we
can finish boats, with the data stored centrally.

However, I'm wary of taking laptops on boats - water etc. don't mix with
expensive kit. So how about a handheld - Palm or otherwise?

Of course, if we use a handheld, this is not related to the wireless aspect
so much, but how we could use it to ease the RO's job when finishing.

I happy to develop application for a Palm Pilot. so what I'm interested in
from the Sailwave group is ideas as to the best user interface to use, to
make things easy. Bear in mind the size of the screen!

(I'm assuming I can write a conduit which will allow the download/upload of
competitors etc. from Sailwave data to the handheld.)

So - thoughts please!

James

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=259395.3614674.4902533.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705065792:HM/A=1524963/R=0/SIG=12o885gmo/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-bin/autoredir?camp=556&lineid=3614674&prop=egroupweb&pos=HM>
5145aaf.jpg

[]

-!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!-
<http://www.fastmail.fm/>http://www.fastmail.fm/
-!- Sick of Spam? Get Spam Pal <free!> -!-
<http://www.spampal.org/>http://www.spampal.org/
http://www.sailwave.com/

Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

3

James
    this takes me back to an earlier request to Colin.
If you just record sail number and finish time on the hand held, you could
send the file as a csv import to Sailwave. Problem is at the moment sailwave
also needs race number with each entry, and I believe start time. I had
suggested to Colin, could a way be found of putting these in as a header, so
that only sail no. and finish time was required for each boat. Seems it
might solve your requirement as well.
Regards
John

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Lavery" <jlavery@bigfoot.com>
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:44 AM
Subject: [sailwave] Hand-held finishing?

I'm about to put in a wireless network at our club (lucky us!) which, with
an external antenna, should be able to cover our start/finish area. This
has got me thinking as to how to put this to use in race scoring.

One obvious solution is to have a laptop on the committee boat, on which

we

can finish boats, with the data stored centrally.

However, I'm wary of taking laptops on boats - water etc. don't mix with
expensive kit. So how about a handheld - Palm or otherwise?

Of course, if we use a handheld, this is not related to the wireless

aspect

so much, but how we could use it to ease the RO's job when finishing.

I happy to develop application for a Palm Pilot. so what I'm interested in
from the Sailwave group is ideas as to the best user interface to use, to
make things easy. Bear in mind the size of the screen!

(I'm assuming I can write a conduit which will allow the download/upload

of

competitors etc. from Sailwave data to the handheld.)

So - thoughts please!

James

-!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/
-!- Sick of Spam? Get Spam Pal <free!> -!-
http://www.spampal.org/
http://www.sailwave.com/

Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

4

Hmmm..

I've been thinking about the same things for a while (It's boring staying ashore, when everybody is at sea !).

Well, we often use 30-35 ft. sailboats as starting wessels. This makes it easyer to use a lap top PC on board. My intention is to do all RO result work on sea.... (What about micro chips in every boat ? Rounding presentet at land in real time ??).

I'm thinking of doing everything on board, and then print it on a printer ashore, and have "someone" in the kiosk posting it... It would be great to post results from the wessel to internet.... If I had a large screen, we could present it to the sailors as well....

Unfortunatley we don't have a WLAN (yet)...

So, a palm or what ever, is not what I want. You have to gain something, and I don't see how. Recording the results is not what takes time, and you have to (?) record them on paper anyway.... Maybe voice recognition on a Palm would do it ?? I have a Siemens that have voice reconition, but it only take commands...

One way to use a Palm/CE : If you have "direct connection" to your PC, it could be used as a NUM-pad for recording results... That could be quite fast and nice.

Well, still I think I would prefer a laptop.... Maye with a waterproof box ?

bw. martin

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: John Selby
  To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 1:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [sailwave] Hand-held finishing?

  James
      this takes me back to an earlier request to Colin.
  If you just record sail number and finish time on the hand held, you could
  send the file as a csv import to Sailwave. Problem is at the moment sailwave
  also needs race number with each entry, and I believe start time. I had
  suggested to Colin, could a way be found of putting these in as a header, so
  that only sail no. and finish time was required for each boat. Seems it
  might solve your requirement as well.
  Regards
  John
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "James Lavery" <jlavery@bigfoot.com>
  To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:44 AM
  Subject: [sailwave] Hand-held finishing?

  > I'm about to put in a wireless network at our club (lucky us!) which, with
  > an external antenna, should be able to cover our start/finish area. This
  > has got me thinking as to how to put this to use in race scoring.
  >
  > One obvious solution is to have a laptop on the committee boat, on which
  we
  > can finish boats, with the data stored centrally.
  >
  > However, I'm wary of taking laptops on boats - water etc. don't mix with
  > expensive kit. So how about a handheld - Palm or otherwise?
  >
  > Of course, if we use a handheld, this is not related to the wireless
  aspect
  > so much, but how we could use it to ease the RO's job when finishing.
  >
  > I happy to develop application for a Palm Pilot. so what I'm interested in
  > from the Sailwave group is ideas as to the best user interface to use, to
  > make things easy. Bear in mind the size of the screen!
  >
  > (I'm assuming I can write a conduit which will allow the download/upload
  of
  > competitors etc. from Sailwave data to the handheld.)
  >
  > So - thoughts please!
  >
  > James
  >
  >
  >
  > -!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/
  > -!- Sick of Spam? Get Spam Pal <free!> -!-
  > http://www.spampal.org/
  > http://www.sailwave.com/
  >
  > Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
  > sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  > sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
  >
  >
  >
  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  >
  >
  >

        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT
             
  -!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/
  -!- Sick of Spam? Get Spam Pal <free!> -!-
  http://www.spampal.org/
  http://www.sailwave.com/

  Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
  sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
  --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

5

Hi John,
Yes, my intention was to ameliorate the recording of finishing
times. Maybe present a list of sailnumbers on the touch screen, and
record the finish by tapping the relevant number...

However, as others have pointed out, it's not so much the recording
as processing which is the problem - so laptop may be the best
approach.

But it's always good to get the thought processes going, even if
nothing comes of it!

James

James
    this takes me back to an earlier request to Colin.
If you just record sail number and finish time on the hand held,

you could

send the file as a csv import to Sailwave. Problem is at the

moment sailwave

also needs race number with each entry, and I believe start time.

I had

suggested to Colin, could a way be found of putting these in as a

header, so

that only sail no. and finish time was required for each boat.

Seems it

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "John Selby" <john@1...> wrote:

might solve your requirement as well.
Regards
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Lavery" <jlavery@b...>
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:44 AM
Subject: [sailwave] Hand-held finishing?

6

All
I'm new at the scoring game but I design handheld
solutions for beer salesmen. If we can track inventory
by location, pricing, displays and promotions, we can
surely track 3 or 4 sailboat races.
It is, after all, only software.
Tom Kirwan
Chula Vista Yacht Club

···

--- James Lavery <jlavery@bigfoot.com> wrote:

---------------------------------
Hi John,
Yes, my intention was to ameliorate the recording of
finishing
times. Maybe present a list of sailnumbers on the
touch screen, and
record the finish by tapping the relevant number...

However, as others have pointed out, it's not so much
the recording
as processing which is the problem - so laptop may be
the best
approach.

But it's always good to get the thought processes
going, even if
nothing comes of it!

James

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "John Selby"
<john@1...> wrote:

James
    this takes me back to an earlier request to

Colin.

If you just record sail number and finish time on

the hand held,
you could

send the file as a csv import to Sailwave. Problem

is at the
moment sailwave

also needs race number with each entry, and I

believe start time.
I had

suggested to Colin, could a way be found of putting

these in as a
header, so

that only sail no. and finish time was required for

each boat.
Seems it

might solve your requirement as well.
Regards
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Lavery" <jlavery@b...>
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:44 AM
Subject: [sailwave] Hand-held finishing?

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT

-!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!-
http://www.fastmail.fm/
-!- Sick of Spam? Get Spam Pal <free!> -!-
http://www.spampal.org/
http://www.sailwave.com/

Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.

7

The Sailwave on-line documentation (such as it is) points to some existing
solutions to record race times
(http://sailwave.com/help/help.php?wakka=RaceManagementLinks). A related
problem is how to automatically record finishing times; don't know any
solutions for that; sounds straightforward until you get into the
butwhatif's.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: BARBARA KIRWAN [mailto:tombar@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: 04 November 2003 05:02
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Hand-held finishing?

All
I'm new at the scoring game but I design handheld
solutions for beer salesmen. If we can track inventory
by location, pricing, displays and promotions, we can
surely track 3 or 4 sailboat races.
It is, after all, only software.
Tom Kirwan
Chula Vista Yacht Club
--- James Lavery <jlavery@bigfoot.com> wrote:

---------------------------------
Hi John,
Yes, my intention was to ameliorate the recording of
finishing
times. Maybe present a list of sailnumbers on the
touch screen, and
record the finish by tapping the relevant number...

However, as others have pointed out, it's not so much
the recording
as processing which is the problem - so laptop may be
the best
approach.

But it's always good to get the thought processes
going, even if
nothing comes of it!

James

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "John Selby"
<john@1...> wrote:
> James
> this takes me back to an earlier request to
Colin.
> If you just record sail number and finish time on
the hand held,
you could
> send the file as a csv import to Sailwave. Problem
is at the
moment sailwave
> also needs race number with each entry, and I
believe start time.
I had
> suggested to Colin, could a way be found of putting
these in as a
header, so
> that only sail no. and finish time was required for
each boat.
Seems it
> might solve your requirement as well.
> Regards
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Lavery" <jlavery@b...>
> To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:44 AM
> Subject: [sailwave] Hand-held finishing?
>
>

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT

-!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!-
http://www.fastmail.fm/
-!- Sick of Spam? Get Spam Pal <free!> -!-
http://www.spampal.org/
http://www.sailwave.com/

Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.

-!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/
-!- Sick of Spam? Get Spam Pal <free!> -!-
http://www.spampal.org/
http://www.sailwave.com/

Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 03/11/2003

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 03/11/2003

8

Thanks for the reference to existing solutions.
Unfortunately, all I saw was some PC (laptop) software
and a big dog site with custom handhelds for
significant naming rights sponsored events.
We probably should be thinking Palm/pocket PC
solutions.
They are affordable for recreational club use. Most
database engines now provide subscription services
which allow a subset of the data to reside on a client
device and upon reconnection, to update the server
data.
The new .NET services are really geared for this.
If we can figure out a way to expose just the
significant portions of the .blw to a handheld device,
we could probably capture the boat ID and finish time
(albeit manually entered) and send them back to
sailwave.
As I think of it, we can just send an XML message with
the competitors to the handheld, record the finish
time for each competitor, send the results bach in
another XML message and let SailWave earn its keep by
doing the scoring and publishing the results.
Thoughts from all?
Thanks,
Tom

The Sailwave on-line documentation (such as it is)
points to some existing
solutions to record race times

(http://sailwave.com/help/help.php?wakka=RaceManagementLinks).

···

--- Colin Jenkins <colin@sailwave.com> wrote:

A related
problem is how to automatically record finishing
times; don't know any
solutions for that; sounds straightforward until you
get into the
butwhatif's.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: BARBARA KIRWAN [mailto:tombar@sbcglobal.net]
> Sent: 04 November 2003 05:02
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Hand-held finishing?
>
>
> All
> I'm new at the scoring game but I design handheld
> solutions for beer salesmen. If we can track
inventory
> by location, pricing, displays and promotions, we
can
> surely track 3 or 4 sailboat races.
> It is, after all, only software.
> Tom Kirwan
> Chula Vista Yacht Club
> --- James Lavery <jlavery@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
> ---------------------------------
> Hi John,
> Yes, my intention was to ameliorate the recording
of
> finishing
> times. Maybe present a list of sailnumbers on the
> touch screen, and
> record the finish by tapping the relevant
number...
>
> However, as others have pointed out, it's not so
much
> the recording
> as processing which is the problem - so laptop may
be
> the best
> approach.
>
> But it's always good to get the thought processes
> going, even if
> nothing comes of it!
>
> James
>
> --- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "John Selby"
> <john@1...> wrote:
> > James
> > this takes me back to an earlier request to
> Colin.
> > If you just record sail number and finish time
on
> the hand held,
> you could
> > send the file as a csv import to Sailwave.
Problem
> is at the
> moment sailwave
> > also needs race number with each entry, and I
> believe start time.
> I had
> > suggested to Colin, could a way be found of
putting
> these in as a
> header, so
> > that only sail no. and finish time was required
for
> each boat.
> Seems it
> > might solve your requirement as well.
> > Regards
> > John
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James Lavery" <jlavery@b...>
> > To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:44 AM
> > Subject: [sailwave] Hand-held finishing?
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
>
> -!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!-
> http://www.fastmail.fm/
> -!- Sick of Spam? Get Spam Pal <free!> -!-
> http://www.spampal.org/
> http://www.sailwave.com/
>
> Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email
to:
> sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> -!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!-
http://www.fastmail.fm/
> -!- Sick of Spam? Get Spam Pal <free!> -!-
> http://www.spampal.org/
> http://www.sailwave.com/
>
> Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email
to:
> sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system
(http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release
Date: 03/11/2003
>
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system
(http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release
Date: 03/11/2003

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

-!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!-
http://www.fastmail.fm/
-!- Sick of Spam? Get Spam Pal <free!> -!-
http://www.spampal.org/
http://www.sailwave.com/

Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email
to:
sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

9

Hi Tom,

something get the data to it. As it stands the only data entry is CSV file,
which satisfies PC based timers like Prolog and Raceday, and also general
import of results form spreadsheets etc.

I will always be will to extend the file format to XML if required but I
don't really want to get involved with scanning the serial ports etc etc. I
could also add a COM/DDE interface if required.

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

From my POV, yes I would like Sailwave to just do the scoring and let

-----Original Message-----
From: BARBARA KIRWAN [mailto:tombar@sbcglobal.net]
Sent: 06 November 2003 05:13
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Re: Hand-held finishing?

Thanks for the reference to existing solutions.
Unfortunately, all I saw was some PC (laptop) software
and a big dog site with custom handhelds for
significant naming rights sponsored events.
We probably should be thinking Palm/pocket PC
solutions.
They are affordable for recreational club use. Most
database engines now provide subscription services
which allow a subset of the data to reside on a client
device and upon reconnection, to update the server
data.
The new .NET services are really geared for this.
If we can figure out a way to expose just the
significant portions of the .blw to a handheld device,
we could probably capture the boat ID and finish time
(albeit manually entered) and send them back to
sailwave.
As I think of it, we can just send an XML message with
the competitors to the handheld, record the finish
time for each competitor, send the results bach in
another XML message and let SailWave earn its keep by
doing the scoring and publishing the results.
Thoughts from all?
Thanks,
Tom
--- Colin Jenkins <colin@sailwave.com> wrote:
> The Sailwave on-line documentation (such as it is)
> points to some existing
> solutions to record race times
>
(http://sailwave.com/help/help.php?wakka=RaceManagementLinks).
> A related
> problem is how to automatically record finishing
> times; don't know any
> solutions for that; sounds straightforward until you
> get into the
> butwhatif's.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: BARBARA KIRWAN [mailto:tombar@sbcglobal.net]
> > Sent: 04 November 2003 05:02
> > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Hand-held finishing?
> >
> >
> > All
> > I'm new at the scoring game but I design handheld
> > solutions for beer salesmen. If we can track
> inventory
> > by location, pricing, displays and promotions, we
> can
> > surely track 3 or 4 sailboat races.
> > It is, after all, only software.
> > Tom Kirwan
> > Chula Vista Yacht Club
> > --- James Lavery <jlavery@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Hi John,
> > Yes, my intention was to ameliorate the recording
> of
> > finishing
> > times. Maybe present a list of sailnumbers on the
> > touch screen, and
> > record the finish by tapping the relevant
> number...
> >
> > However, as others have pointed out, it's not so
> much
> > the recording
> > as processing which is the problem - so laptop may
> be
> > the best
> > approach.
> >
> > But it's always good to get the thought processes
> > going, even if
> > nothing comes of it!
> >
> > James
> >
> > --- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "John Selby"
> > <john@1...> wrote:
> > > James
> > > this takes me back to an earlier request to
> > Colin.
> > > If you just record sail number and finish time
> on
> > the hand held,
> > you could
> > > send the file as a csv import to Sailwave.
> Problem
> > is at the
> > moment sailwave
> > > also needs race number with each entry, and I
> > believe start time.
> > I had
> > > suggested to Colin, could a way be found of
> putting
> > these in as a
> > header, so
> > > that only sail no. and finish time was required
> for
> > each boat.
> > Seems it
> > > might solve your requirement as well.
> > > Regards
> > > John
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "James Lavery" <jlavery@b...>
> > > To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:44 AM
> > > Subject: [sailwave] Hand-held finishing?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> > -!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!-
> > http://www.fastmail.fm/
> > -!- Sick of Spam? Get Spam Pal <free!> -!-
> > http://www.spampal.org/
> > http://www.sailwave.com/
> >
> > Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email
> to:
> > sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> > Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > -!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!-
> http://www.fastmail.fm/
> > -!- Sick of Spam? Get Spam Pal <free!> -!-
> > http://www.spampal.org/
> > http://www.sailwave.com/
> >
> > Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email
> to:
> > sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system
> (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release
> Date: 03/11/2003
> >
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system
> (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release
> Date: 03/11/2003
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> -!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!-
> http://www.fastmail.fm/
> -!- Sick of Spam? Get Spam Pal <free!> -!-
> http://www.spampal.org/
> http://www.sailwave.com/
>
> Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email
> to:
> sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

-!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/
-!- Sick of Spam? Get Spam Pal <free!> -!-
http://www.spampal.org/
http://www.sailwave.com/

Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 03/11/2003

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.536 / Virus Database: 331 - Release Date: 03/11/2003