Including discard as a tier breaker

Hi,

I've just started using sailwave to calculate our clubs results and
am finding it brilliant to use but have encountered a problem with
the way our club scores regattas of three races. On these regattas
we have two of three races to count but the third race is used if
there is a tie, ie if one boat has a 1st and 3rd and another two
2nds both of their dicards are then taken into account. Can anyone
tell me how to do this on sailwave and also if this scoring method
floored (and non standard) and should we be changing it?

Andy

Hi Andy,

In the SeriesScoring tab of Edit+ScoringSystem you can choose to include
discard in the 8.1 tie breaker. This does what you require. It is
non-standard.

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

···

-----Original Message-----
From: priorandy [mailto:priorandy@yahoo.com]
Sent: 20 September 2004 14:12
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Including discard as a tier breaker

Hi,

I've just started using sailwave to calculate our clubs results and
am finding it brilliant to use but have encountered a problem with
the way our club scores regattas of three races. On these regattas
we have two of three races to count but the third race is used if
there is a tie, ie if one boat has a 1st and 3rd and another two
2nds both of their dicards are then taken into account. Can anyone
tell me how to do this on sailwave and also if this scoring method
floored (and non standard) and should we be changing it?

Andy

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In scoring systems option under series scoring check "include discards in 8
1".

Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com

···

-------Original Message-------

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 09/20/04 07:21:00
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Including discard as a tier breaker

Hi,

I've just started using sailwave to calculate our clubs results and
am finding it brilliant to use but have encountered a problem with
the way our club scores regattas of three races. On these regattas
we have two of three races to count but the third race is used if
there is a tie, ie if one boat has a 1st and 3rd and another two
2nds both of their dicards are then taken into account. Can anyone
tell me how to do this on sailwave and also if this scoring method
floored (and non standard) and should we be changing it?

Andy

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Colin, But I've tried that and it doesn't have the right
effect as it still applies 8.1, I want to replace 8.1 by including
both boats discarded score as the first tie break.

The problem I had this Sunday was with one boat scoring two 3rds and
a 1st and the second boat scoring three 2nds, by our club rules the
boat with three 2nds wins as both boats had scored 4 points from the
two counting races but the discard of a 2nd is better than a discard
of a 3rd. Sailwave calculates this result in favour of the other
boat as its best score of a 1st is better than the other boats best
score of a 2nd which is obviously standard way, but not the way our
club operates.

Any suggestions?

Andy

Hi Andy,

In the SeriesScoring tab of Edit+ScoringSystem you can choose to

include

discard in the 8.1 tie breaker. This does what you require. It is
non-standard.

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

> From: priorandy [mailto:priorandy@y…]
> Sent: 20 September 2004 14:12
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [sailwave] Including discard as a tier breaker
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I've just started using sailwave to calculate our clubs results

and

> am finding it brilliant to use but have encountered a problem

with

> the way our club scores regattas of three races. On these

regattas

> we have two of three races to count but the third race is used if
> there is a tie, ie if one boat has a 1st and 3rd and another two
> 2nds both of their dicards are then taken into account. Can

anyone

> tell me how to do this on sailwave and also if this scoring

method

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Jenkins" <colin@s...> wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> floored (and non standard) and should we be changing it?
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
> -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
> http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
>
> Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
> sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Hi Andy,

Yes, you're right it's different; it sounded the same at first. Sailwave
cannot do what your SIs say. obviously I have to work to the RRS standards
with common-ish variations - and this is not one of them; although it sounds
reasonable enough. If N users tell me it's something they want I can
accommodate it, but it's a tricky situation when it's only one club that
uses a particular variation; not in that it's hard to implement, more that
it's difficult to justify the added complexity of another option...

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Prior [mailto:priorandy@yahoo.com]
Sent: 21 September 2004 09:13
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Including discard as a tier breaker

Thanks Colin, But I've tried that and it doesn't have the right
effect as it still applies 8.1, I want to replace 8.1 by including
both boats discarded score as the first tie break.

The problem I had this Sunday was with one boat scoring two 3rds and
a 1st and the second boat scoring three 2nds, by our club rules the
boat with three 2nds wins as both boats had scored 4 points from the
two counting races but the discard of a 2nd is better than a discard
of a 3rd. Sailwave calculates this result in favour of the other
boat as its best score of a 1st is better than the other boats best
score of a 2nd which is obviously standard way, but not the way our
club operates.

Any suggestions?

Andy

— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Jenkins" <colin@s…> wrote:
> Hi Andy,
>
> In the SeriesScoring tab of Edit+ScoringSystem you can choose to
include
> discard in the 8.1 tie breaker. This does what you require. It is
> non-standard.
>
> Regards,
> Colin J
> www.sailwave.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: priorandy [mailto:priorandy@y…]
> > Sent: 20 September 2004 14:12
> > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [sailwave] Including discard as a tier breaker
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've just started using sailwave to calculate our clubs results
and
> > am finding it brilliant to use but have encountered a problem
with
> > the way our club scores regattas of three races. On these
regattas
> > we have two of three races to count but the third race is used if
> > there is a tie, ie if one boat has a 1st and 3rd and another two
> > 2nds both of their dicards are then taken into account. Can
anyone
> > tell me how to do this on sailwave and also if this scoring
method
> > floored (and non standard) and should we be changing it?
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
> > http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
> >
> > Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
> > sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > —
> > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.766 / Virus Database: 513 - Release Date: 17/09/2004
> >
> —
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.766 / Virus Database: 513 - Release Date: 17/09/2004

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Hi Andy
Colin's reference to using the "include discards" option for 8.1 was added
in the very early days of Sailwave for Ogston SC, who had used this method
for some years. As Results Officer at the time, I went along with the idea
but quietly changed Club SI's to conform to Appendix A (sorry to any OSC
members are reading this!!)
Using discards to break ties went out YEARS ago & perhaps you may need to
use subterfuge if the members don't wish to follow the majority.

Also support Colin's view that he will only make changes if enough people
agree.
Don't forget that Sailwave is so good because it is not complicated. More &
more variations to the standard will create problems. If I may be so bold
Colin, 'N' should be replaced with at least 75% and/or to meet National
Prescriptions

Regards
Ralph Tingle

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 21 September 2004 10:21
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Re: Including discard as a tier breaker

Hi Andy,

Yes, you're right it's different; it sounded the same at first. Sailwave
cannot do what your SIs say. obviously I have to work to the RRS standards
with common-ish variations - and this is not one of them; although it sounds
reasonable enough. If N users tell me it's something they want I can
accommodate it, but it's a tricky situation when it's only one club that
uses a particular variation; not in that it's hard to implement, more that
it's difficult to justify the added complexity of another option...

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Prior [mailto:priorandy@yahoo.com]
Sent: 21 September 2004 09:13
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Including discard as a tier breaker

Thanks Colin, But I've tried that and it doesn't have the right
effect as it still applies 8.1, I want to replace 8.1 by including
both boats discarded score as the first tie break.

The problem I had this Sunday was with one boat scoring two 3rds and
a 1st and the second boat scoring three 2nds, by our club rules the
boat with three 2nds wins as both boats had scored 4 points from the
two counting races but the discard of a 2nd is better than a discard
of a 3rd. Sailwave calculates this result in favour of the other
boat as its best score of a 1st is better than the other boats best
score of a 2nd which is obviously standard way, but not the way our
club operates.

Any suggestions?

Andy

— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Jenkins" <colin@s…> wrote:
> Hi Andy,
>
> In the SeriesScoring tab of Edit+ScoringSystem you can choose to
include
> discard in the 8.1 tie breaker. This does what you require. It is
> non-standard.
>
> Regards,
> Colin J
> www.sailwave.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: priorandy [mailto:priorandy@y…]
> > Sent: 20 September 2004 14:12
> > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [sailwave] Including discard as a tier breaker
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've just started using sailwave to calculate our clubs results
and
> > am finding it brilliant to use but have encountered a problem
with
> > the way our club scores regattas of three races. On these
regattas
> > we have two of three races to count but the third race is used if
> > there is a tie, ie if one boat has a 1st and 3rd and another two
> > 2nds both of their dicards are then taken into account. Can
anyone
> > tell me how to do this on sailwave and also if this scoring
method
> > floored (and non standard) and should we be changing it?
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
> > http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
> >
> > Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
> > sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > —
> > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.766 / Virus Database: 513 - Release Date: 17/09/2004
> >
> —
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.766 / Virus Database: 513 - Release Date: 17/09/2004

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I'm with Ralph on this one! KISS....
Mike Croker
Lancing SC

···

-----Original Message-----
  From: Ralph Tingle [mailto:rat@attat.com]
  Sent: 21 September 2004 12:26
  To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [sailwave] Re: Including discard as a tier breaker

  Hi Andy
  Colin's reference to using the "include discards" option for 8.1 was added
  in the very early days of Sailwave for Ogston SC, who had used this method
  for some years. As Results Officer at the time, I went along with the idea
  but quietly changed Club SI's to conform to Appendix A (sorry to any OSC
  members are reading this!!)
  Using discards to break ties went out YEARS ago & perhaps you may need to
  use subterfuge if the members don't wish to follow the majority.

  Also support Colin's view that he will only make changes if enough people
  agree.
  Don't forget that Sailwave is so good because it is not complicated. More
&
  more variations to the standard will create problems. If I may be so bold
  Colin, 'N' should be replaced with at least 75% and/or to meet National
  Prescriptions

  Regards
  Ralph Tingle

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
  Sent: 21 September 2004 10:21
  To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [sailwave] Re: Including discard as a tier breaker

  Hi Andy,

  Yes, you're right it's different; it sounded the same at first. Sailwave
  cannot do what your SIs say. obviously I have to work to the RRS
standards
  with common-ish variations - and this is not one of them; although it
sounds
  reasonable enough. If N users tell me it's something they want I can
  accommodate it, but it's a tricky situation when it's only one club that
  uses a particular variation; not in that it's hard to implement, more that
  it's difficult to justify the added complexity of another option...

  Regards,
  Colin J
  www.sailwave.com

  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Andy Prior [mailto:priorandy@yahoo.com]
  > Sent: 21 September 2004 09:13
  > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  > Subject: [sailwave] Re: Including discard as a tier breaker
  >
  >
  > Thanks Colin, But I've tried that and it doesn't have the right
  > effect as it still applies 8.1, I want to replace 8.1 by including
  > both boats discarded score as the first tie break.
  >
  > The problem I had this Sunday was with one boat scoring two 3rds and
  > a 1st and the second boat scoring three 2nds, by our club rules the
  > boat with three 2nds wins as both boats had scored 4 points from the
  > two counting races but the discard of a 2nd is better than a discard
  > of a 3rd. Sailwave calculates this result in favour of the other
  > boat as its best score of a 1st is better than the other boats best
  > score of a 2nd which is obviously standard way, but not the way our
  > club operates.
  >
  > Any suggestions?
  >
  > Andy
  >
  > — In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Jenkins" <colin@s…> wrote:
  > > Hi Andy,
  > >
  > > In the SeriesScoring tab of Edit+ScoringSystem you can choose to
  > include
  > > discard in the 8.1 tie breaker. This does what you require. It is
  > > non-standard.
  > >
  > > Regards,
  > > Colin J
  > > www.sailwave.com
  > >
  > >
  > > > -----Original Message-----
  > > > From: priorandy [mailto:priorandy@y…]
  > > > Sent: 20 September 2004 14:12
  > > > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  > > > Subject: [sailwave] Including discard as a tier breaker
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > Hi,
  > > >
  > > > I've just started using sailwave to calculate our clubs results
  > and
  > > > am finding it brilliant to use but have encountered a problem
  > with
  > > > the way our club scores regattas of three races. On these
  > regattas
  > > > we have two of three races to count but the third race is used if
  > > > there is a tie, ie if one boat has a 1st and 3rd and another two
  > > > 2nds both of their dicards are then taken into account. Can
  > anyone
  > > > tell me how to do this on sailwave and also if this scoring
  > method
  > > > floored (and non standard) and should we be changing it?
  > > >
  > > > Andy
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
  > > > http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
  > > >
  > > > Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
  > > > sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > —
  > > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
  > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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  > > —
  > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
  > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
  > > Version: 6.0.766 / Virus Database: 513 - Release Date: 17/09/2004
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
  > http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
  >
  > Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
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  >
  >
  >
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  > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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  >
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks again Colin,

Now I know we are out of step with most other clubs and the correct
rules I'll put forward that Welland Yacht Club step into line at the
AGM, in the mean time I can manually correct the results for our
last few regattas.

As you probabably gathered I have just returned to racing after a
fifteen year abscense and the rules have changed a bit! It also came
as a shock to find that a Graduate is no longer PY103!!

Andy

Hi Andy,

Yes, you're right it's different; it sounded the same at first.

Sailwave

cannot do what your SIs say. obviously I have to work to the RRS

standards

with common-ish variations - and this is not one of them; although

it sounds

reasonable enough. If N users tell me it's something they want I

can

accommodate it, but it's a tricky situation when it's only one

club that

uses a particular variation; not in that it's hard to implement,

more that

it's difficult to justify the added complexity of another option...

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

> From: Andy Prior [mailto:priorandy@y…]
> Sent: 21 September 2004 09:13
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [sailwave] Re: Including discard as a tier breaker
>
>
> Thanks Colin, But I've tried that and it doesn't have the right
> effect as it still applies 8.1, I want to replace 8.1 by

including

> both boats discarded score as the first tie break.
>
> The problem I had this Sunday was with one boat scoring two 3rds

and

> a 1st and the second boat scoring three 2nds, by our club rules

the

> boat with three 2nds wins as both boats had scored 4 points from

the

> two counting races but the discard of a 2nd is better than a

discard

> of a 3rd. Sailwave calculates this result in favour of the other
> boat as its best score of a 1st is better than the other boats

best

> score of a 2nd which is obviously standard way, but not the way

our

> club operates.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Andy
>
> --- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Jenkins" <colin@s...>

wrote:

> > Hi Andy,
> >
> > In the SeriesScoring tab of Edit+ScoringSystem you can choose

to

> include
> > discard in the 8.1 tie breaker. This does what you require.

It is

> > non-standard.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Colin J
> > www.sailwave.com
> >
> >
> > > From: priorandy [mailto:priorandy@y…]
> > > Sent: 20 September 2004 14:12
> > > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [sailwave] Including discard as a tier breaker
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I've just started using sailwave to calculate our clubs

results

> and
> > > am finding it brilliant to use but have encountered a problem
> with
> > > the way our club scores regattas of three races. On these
> regattas
> > > we have two of three races to count but the third race is

used if

> > > there is a tie, ie if one boat has a 1st and 3rd and another

two

> > > 2nds both of their dicards are then taken into account. Can
> anyone
> > > tell me how to do this on sailwave and also if this scoring
> method
> > > floored (and non standard) and should we be changing it?
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
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···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Jenkins" <colin@s...> wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> > > -----Original Message-----
>
>
>
>
>
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> http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
>
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> sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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Andy, I have found that you are better sticking to the ISAF scoring rules
rather than your own local variation. When you have your own variation
everyone wants to "fine tune" them, if you use the ISAF rules they are what
they are. I would recommend that you change your NOR and SI's.

Mark Townsend
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com

···

-------Original Message-------

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 09/21/04 02:23:27
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Re: Including discard as a tier breaker

Hi Andy,

Yes, you're right it's different; it sounded the same at first. Sailwave
cannot do what your SIs say. obviously I have to work to the RRS standards
with common-ish variations - and this is not one of them; although it sounds
reasonable enough. If N users tell me it's something they want I can
accommodate it, but it's a tricky situation when it's only one club that
uses a particular variation; not in that it's hard to implement, more that
it's difficult to justify the added complexity of another option...

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Prior [mailto:priorandy@yahoo.com]
Sent: 21 September 2004 09:13
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Including discard as a tier breaker

Thanks Colin, But I've tried that and it doesn't have the right
effect as it still applies 8.1, I want to replace 8.1 by including
both boats discarded score as the first tie break.

The problem I had this Sunday was with one boat scoring two 3rds and
a 1st and the second boat scoring three 2nds, by our club rules the
boat with three 2nds wins as both boats had scored 4 points from the
two counting races but the discard of a 2nd is better than a discard
of a 3rd. Sailwave calculates this result in favour of the other
boat as its best score of a 1st is better than the other boats best
score of a 2nd which is obviously standard way, but not the way our
club operates.

Any suggestions?

Andy

— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Jenkins" <colin@s…> wrote:
> Hi Andy,
>
> In the SeriesScoring tab of Edit+ScoringSystem you can choose to
include
> discard in the 8.1 tie breaker. This does what you require. It is
> non-standard.
>
> Regards,
> Colin J
> www.sailwave.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: priorandy [mailto:priorandy@y…]
> > Sent: 20 September 2004 14:12
> > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [sailwave] Including discard as a tier breaker
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've just started using sailwave to calculate our clubs results
and
> > am finding it brilliant to use but have encountered a problem
with
> > the way our club scores regattas of three races. On these
regattas
> > we have two of three races to count but the third race is used if
> > there is a tie, ie if one boat has a 1st and 3rd and another two
> > 2nds both of their dicards are then taken into account. Can
anyone
> > tell me how to do this on sailwave and also if this scoring
method
> > floored (and non standard) and should we be changing it?
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
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