Hi Colin,
Can you give me an idea of when the individual handicap system will
be up and running, as it would greatly assist our club with
computerising the handicapping.
Thanks very much
Chris Kenah
Napier Sailing Club
NZ
Cris and anybody that wants PH facilities,
PH is by far the most common request for dev at the moment - and anyway Rob
flipped a coin and decided it would be next, so it will be done immediately
after 1.58 has been released, which should be by the end of October. So I
estimate by the end of November. However I cannot commit to these estimates
because Sailwave is a hobby and I only get to do it in 'spare' time... If
work gets mad or I have unexpected family commitments, Sailwave it the first
thing to 'suffer'.
There is one huge problem with PH - which is that everybody does it
differently - also some clubs allow competitrors to change
boats/configurations during a series, which really thows a spanner in the
works.
What if we simplified for step 1 - each competiutor sails the same
boat/configuration with the same default rating for the duration of a
Sailwave series... Would that affect anybody that wants the PH tools...?
Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com
···
-----Original Message-----
From: chris_nsc [mailto:malcolm.chris@xtra.co.nz]
Sent: 04 October 2004 20:24
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Individual HandicapsHi Colin,
Can you give me an idea of when the individual handicap system will
be up and running, as it would greatly assist our club with
computerising the handicapping.Thanks very much
Chris Kenah
Napier Sailing Club
NZ-!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
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Hi Colin
Great to hear you are making PH the next priority. We have adopted your step 1 proposal for our summer season which started 3 weeks ago. All boats sail a series with a set handicap and any adjustments won't take effect till the new series.
Can't wait till the end of Nov when I can through out all the spreadsheets we currently use for averaging RWin.
Cheers Wayne
···
----- Original Message -----
From: Colin Jenkins
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:24 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
Cris and anybody that wants PH facilities,
PH is by far the most common request for dev at the moment - and anyway Rob
flipped a coin and decided it would be next, so it will be done immediately
after 1.58 has been released, which should be by the end of October. So I
estimate by the end of November. However I cannot commit to these estimates
because Sailwave is a hobby and I only get to do it in 'spare' time... If
work gets mad or I have unexpected family commitments, Sailwave it the first
thing to 'suffer'.
There is one huge problem with PH - which is that everybody does it
differently - also some clubs allow competitrors to change
boats/configurations during a series, which really thows a spanner in the
works.
What if we simplified for step 1 - each competiutor sails the same
boat/configuration with the same default rating for the duration of a
Sailwave series... Would that affect anybody that wants the PH tools...?
Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chris_nsc [mailto:malcolm.chris@xtra.co.nz]
> Sent: 04 October 2004 20:24
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Colin,
> Can you give me an idea of when the individual handicap system will
> be up and running, as it would greatly assist our club with
> computerising the handicapping.
>
> Thanks very much
>
> Chris Kenah
> Napier Sailing Club
> NZ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
> http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
>
> Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Colin
"step 1 - each competitor sails the same
boat/configuration with the same default rating for the duration of a
Sailwave series" - With the ability to manually adjust ratings, isn't that
what Sailwave does now?
What I'm after is the ability in Sailwave to analyse a race in a particular
way (e.g. what would the handicaps be for everyone to finish with the same
corrected time as the 'nth' position boat - mean / mode / whatever) and
maybe then adjust each competitor's handicap for the next race automatically
(with manual over-ride) on some basis (e.g. simple averaging from 'x'
previous races, weighted moving average, etc.).
So step 1 for me would be an 'Rn' rating needed to finish with the same time
as the nth boat.
My 'maybe' about the auto adjustment concerns the fact that in a group of
competitors, not all will compete in every race, hence if A and B are of a
similar standard (historic data), and A does well in a race that B does not
compete in, should only A's handicap be adjusted? In some cases the answer
can be 'yes' as that's the rules of the series - I don't think that anyone
at our club treats our PH series seriously enough to try an play the rules!
Mike
PS: I agree that allowing competitors to change boat class for the same
series entry is a bit silly - the only changes we allow are crew (of course
all crews would argue that that's silly too as it's the crew that makes the
team.......)
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 07 October 2004 08:25
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
Cris and anybody that wants PH facilities,
PH is by far the most common request for dev at the moment - and anyway
Rob
flipped a coin and decided it would be next, so it will be done
immediately
after 1.58 has been released, which should be by the end of October. So I
estimate by the end of November. However I cannot commit to these
estimates
because Sailwave is a hobby and I only get to do it in 'spare' time... If
work gets mad or I have unexpected family commitments, Sailwave it the
first
thing to 'suffer'.
There is one huge problem with PH - which is that everybody does it
differently - also some clubs allow competitrors to change
boats/configurations during a series, which really thows a spanner in the
works.
What if we simplified for step 1 - each competiutor sails the same
boat/configuration with the same default rating for the duration of a
Sailwave series... Would that affect anybody that wants the PH tools...?
Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chris_nsc [mailto:malcolm.chris@xtra.co.nz]
> Sent: 04 October 2004 20:24
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Colin,
> Can you give me an idea of when the individual handicap system will
> be up and running, as it would greatly assist our club with
> computerising the handicapping.
>
> Thanks very much
>
> Chris Kenah
> Napier Sailing Club
> NZ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
> http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
>
> Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wayne/Trevor et al,
re: PH
As mentioned my worry has been boats changing configuration - i.e. users
using the race-specific rating in Edit+Result - well what about - as a quick
tweak - I added a option to Edit+ScoringSystem to say "set the race
specific rating in Edit+Result based on ave Rwin". It's a very quick tweak
that would give you a PH capability and avoid my worry - because the
race-specific ratings becomes the PH. Is that worth doing?
CJ
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Nolan [mailto:wayne.nolan@paradise.net.nz]
Sent: 07 October 2004 10:46
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Individual HandicapsHi Colin
Great to hear you are making PH the next priority. We have
adopted your step 1 proposal for our summer season which started
3 weeks ago. All boats sail a series with a set handicap and any
adjustments won't take effect till the new series.Can't wait till the end of Nov when I can through out all the
spreadsheets we currently use for averaging RWin.Cheers Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: Colin Jenkins
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:24 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual HandicapsCris and anybody that wants PH facilities,
PH is by far the most common request for dev at the moment -
and anyway Rob
flipped a coin and decided it would be next, so it will be done
immediately
after 1.58 has been released, which should be by the end of
October. So I
estimate by the end of November. However I cannot commit to
these estimates
because Sailwave is a hobby and I only get to do it in 'spare'
time... If
work gets mad or I have unexpected family commitments, Sailwave
it the first
thing to 'suffer'.There is one huge problem with PH - which is that everybody does it
differently - also some clubs allow competitrors to change
boats/configurations during a series, which really thows a
spanner in the
works.What if we simplified for step 1 - each competiutor sails the same
boat/configuration with the same default rating for the duration of a
Sailwave series... Would that affect anybody that wants the PH
tools...?Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com> -----Original Message-----
> From: chris_nsc [mailto:malcolm.chris@xtra.co.nz]
> Sent: 04 October 2004 20:24
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Colin,
> Can you give me an idea of when the individual handicap system will
> be up and running, as it would greatly assist our club with
> computerising the handicapping.
>
> Thanks very much
>
> Chris Kenah
> Napier Sailing Club
> NZ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
> http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
>
> Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
> sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.771 / Virus Database: 518 - Release Date: 28/09/2004
>
---
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of Service.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Colin
Yes, but what exactly do you mean by 'ave Rwin'? Average for that race, or
some sort of historical average for the series? The problem with using just
one race is that the fluctuations can get bit big at time, which is why one
needs some sort of damping. (For example, I used to only apply 1/3 of the
Rwin equivalent change and cap changes to something like 2% .)
Sorry to complicate things!
Mike
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 07 October 2004 11:02
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
Wayne/Trevor et al,
re: PH
As mentioned my worry has been boats changing configuration - i.e. users
using the race-specific rating in Edit+Result - well what about - as a quick
tweak - I added a option to Edit+ScoringSystem to say "set the race
specific rating in Edit+Result based on ave Rwin". It's a very quick tweak
that would give you a PH capability and avoid my worry - because the
race-specific ratings becomes the PH. Is that worth doing?
CJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Nolan [mailto:wayne.nolan@paradise.net.nz]
Sent: 07 October 2004 10:46
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Individual HandicapsHi Colin
Great to hear you are making PH the next priority. We have
adopted your step 1 proposal for our summer season which started
3 weeks ago. All boats sail a series with a set handicap and any
adjustments won't take effect till the new series.Can't wait till the end of Nov when I can through out all the
spreadsheets we currently use for averaging RWin.Cheers Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: Colin Jenkins
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:24 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual HandicapsCris and anybody that wants PH facilities,
PH is by far the most common request for dev at the moment -
and anyway Rob
flipped a coin and decided it would be next, so it will be done
immediately
after 1.58 has been released, which should be by the end of
October. So I
estimate by the end of November. However I cannot commit to
these estimates
because Sailwave is a hobby and I only get to do it in 'spare'
time... If
work gets mad or I have unexpected family commitments, Sailwave
it the first
thing to 'suffer'.There is one huge problem with PH - which is that everybody does it
differently - also some clubs allow competitrors to change
boats/configurations during a series, which really thows a
spanner in the
works.What if we simplified for step 1 - each competiutor sails the same
boat/configuration with the same default rating for the duration of a
Sailwave series... Would that affect anybody that wants the PH
tools...?Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com> -----Original Message-----
> From: chris_nsc [mailto:malcolm.chris@xtra.co.nz]
> Sent: 04 October 2004 20:24
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Colin,
> Can you give me an idea of when the individual handicap system will
> be up and running, as it would greatly assist our club with
> computerising the handicapping.
>
> Thanks very much
>
> Chris Kenah
> Napier Sailing Club
> NZ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
> http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
>
> Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
> sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.771 / Virus Database: 518 - Release Date: 28/09/2004
>
---
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Hi Mike,
I had in mind something like average of RWins prior to the race in Q, with
race 1 using the edit+competitor rating - and a tweak to calc Rwin based on
the Nth boat, not the first boat as it does by default now. Very simple but
just about gives you what you want...? And avoids the different boat issue
by hijacking the race-specific rating (which would become disabled in the
UI).
CJ
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Croker [mailto:mdcroker@which.net]
Sent: 07 October 2004 11:23
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual HandicapsColin
Yes, but what exactly do you mean by 'ave Rwin'? Average for
that race, or
some sort of historical average for the series? The problem with
using just
one race is that the fluctuations can get bit big at time, which
is why one
needs some sort of damping. (For example, I used to only apply 1/3 of the
Rwin equivalent change and cap changes to something like 2% .)
Sorry to complicate things!
Mike-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 07 October 2004 11:02
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual HandicapsWayne/Trevor et al,
re: PH
As mentioned my worry has been boats changing configuration - i.e. users
using the race-specific rating in Edit+Result - well what about -
as a quick
tweak - I added a option to Edit+ScoringSystem to say "set the race
specific rating in Edit+Result based on ave Rwin". It's a very
quick tweak
that would give you a PH capability and avoid my worry - because the
race-specific ratings becomes the PH. Is that worth doing?CJ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wayne Nolan [mailto:wayne.nolan@paradise.net.nz]
> Sent: 07 October 2004 10:46
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
>
>
>
> Hi Colin
>
> Great to hear you are making PH the next priority. We have
> adopted your step 1 proposal for our summer season which started
> 3 weeks ago. All boats sail a series with a set handicap and any
> adjustments won't take effect till the new series.
>
> Can't wait till the end of Nov when I can through out all the
> spreadsheets we currently use for averaging RWin.
>
> Cheers Wayne
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Colin Jenkins
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:24 PM
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
>
>
> Cris and anybody that wants PH facilities,
>
> PH is by far the most common request for dev at the moment -
> and anyway Rob
> flipped a coin and decided it would be next, so it will be done
> immediately
> after 1.58 has been released, which should be by the end of
> October. So I
> estimate by the end of November. However I cannot commit to
> these estimates
> because Sailwave is a hobby and I only get to do it in 'spare'
> time... If
> work gets mad or I have unexpected family commitments, Sailwave
> it the first
> thing to 'suffer'.
>
> There is one huge problem with PH - which is that everybody does it
> differently - also some clubs allow competitrors to change
> boats/configurations during a series, which really thows a
> spanner in the
> works.
>
> What if we simplified for step 1 - each competiutor sails the same
> boat/configuration with the same default rating for the duration of a
> Sailwave series... Would that affect anybody that wants the PH
> tools...?
>
> Regards,
> Colin
> www.sailwave.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: chris_nsc [mailto:malcolm.chris@xtra.co.nz]
> > Sent: 04 October 2004 20:24
> > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Colin,
> > Can you give me an idea of when the individual handicap system will
> > be up and running, as it would greatly assist our club with
> > computerising the handicapping.
> >
> > Thanks very much
> >
> > Chris Kenah
> > Napier Sailing Club
> > NZ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
> > http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
> >
> > Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
> > sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
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>
>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
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And avoids the different
boat issue
by hijacking the race-specific rating (which would become disabled in the
UI).
Actually I'm going to rename the race specific rating to be a PH which can
be set by hand or auto as described and evolve from there. That way the
emphasis is on a PH rather than boat changing; which at our club we don't
allow in fact. i.e. if you enter a series as a Dart 18 with spinny, you
can't say you want a rating without a spinny for race N just because it's
blowing old boots.
Do the RRS have anything to say about it?
CJ
···
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Colin
Yes, might be sufficient for now. Presumably the manual override (e.g. some
new rating - maybe based on inspection of the programme's suggestions) would
still be possible? Although that means that some competitors would need to
be auto - updated and others manually tweaked?
Mike
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 07 October 2004 11:32
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
Hi Mike,
I had in mind something like average of RWins prior to the race in Q, with
race 1 using the edit+competitor rating - and a tweak to calc Rwin based on
the Nth boat, not the first boat as it does by default now. Very simple but
just about gives you what you want...? And avoids the different boat issue
by hijacking the race-specific rating (which would become disabled in the
UI).
CJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Croker [mailto:mdcroker@which.net]
Sent: 07 October 2004 11:23
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual HandicapsColin
Yes, but what exactly do you mean by 'ave Rwin'? Average for
that race, or
some sort of historical average for the series? The problem with
using just
one race is that the fluctuations can get bit big at time, which
is why one
needs some sort of damping. (For example, I used to only apply 1/3 of the
Rwin equivalent change and cap changes to something like 2% .)
Sorry to complicate things!
Mike-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 07 October 2004 11:02
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual HandicapsWayne/Trevor et al,
re: PH
As mentioned my worry has been boats changing configuration - i.e. users
using the race-specific rating in Edit+Result - well what about -
as a quick
tweak - I added a option to Edit+ScoringSystem to say "set the race
specific rating in Edit+Result based on ave Rwin". It's a very
quick tweak
that would give you a PH capability and avoid my worry - because the
race-specific ratings becomes the PH. Is that worth doing?CJ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wayne Nolan [mailto:wayne.nolan@paradise.net.nz]
> Sent: 07 October 2004 10:46
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
>
>
>
> Hi Colin
>
> Great to hear you are making PH the next priority. We have
> adopted your step 1 proposal for our summer season which started
> 3 weeks ago. All boats sail a series with a set handicap and any
> adjustments won't take effect till the new series.
>
> Can't wait till the end of Nov when I can through out all the
> spreadsheets we currently use for averaging RWin.
>
> Cheers Wayne
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Colin Jenkins
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:24 PM
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
>
>
> Cris and anybody that wants PH facilities,
>
> PH is by far the most common request for dev at the moment -
> and anyway Rob
> flipped a coin and decided it would be next, so it will be done
> immediately
> after 1.58 has been released, which should be by the end of
> October. So I
> estimate by the end of November. However I cannot commit to
> these estimates
> because Sailwave is a hobby and I only get to do it in 'spare'
> time... If
> work gets mad or I have unexpected family commitments, Sailwave
> it the first
> thing to 'suffer'.
>
> There is one huge problem with PH - which is that everybody does it
> differently - also some clubs allow competitrors to change
> boats/configurations during a series, which really thows a
> spanner in the
> works.
>
> What if we simplified for step 1 - each competiutor sails the same
> boat/configuration with the same default rating for the duration of a
> Sailwave series... Would that affect anybody that wants the PH
> tools...?
>
> Regards,
> Colin
> www.sailwave.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: chris_nsc [mailto:malcolm.chris@xtra.co.nz]
> > Sent: 04 October 2004 20:24
> > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Colin,
> > Can you give me an idea of when the individual handicap system will
> > be up and running, as it would greatly assist our club with
> > computerising the handicapping.
> >
> > Thanks very much
> >
> > Chris Kenah
> > Napier Sailing Club
> > NZ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
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> >
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> >
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Changing boats is usually in the SI's i.e. event / club specific, not in the
RRS.
I think that the basic philosophy is that it is the boat that is entered,
and there are then usually restrictions in the SI's to what crew / gear can
be changed. (Makes more sense in keelboat racing than one-design dinghies,
and cats!)
Mike
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 07 October 2004 12:08
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
And avoids the different
boat issue
by hijacking the race-specific rating (which would become disabled in the
UI).
Actually I'm going to rename the race specific rating to be a PH which can
be set by hand or auto as described and evolve from there. That way the
emphasis is on a PH rather than boat changing; which at our club we don't
allow in fact. i.e. if you enter a series as a Dart 18 with spinny, you
can't say you want a rating without a spinny for race N just because it's
blowing old boots.
Do the RRS have anything to say about it?
CJ
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Hi Colin
That sounds great and will certainly give one and all a chance to test and
I'm sure you will get plenty of feedback as is evident by the 20 odd e-mails
received I overnight.
Mike, I think it was, suggested adjustment after each race. We have tried
this using spreadsheets prior to using Sailwave and discovered that people
can use it to get good handicaps for the next race. Also one race the boat
I sailed on, a 25ft Trailer Yacht, broke a shackle on the traveller and we
had to make repairs meaning we finished back in the fleet. Next race our
handicap was adjusted and we won on handicap. Note I was not involved in
handicapping at that point. Actually it was that incident that made me get
involved to see if we could find a better way.
Cheers Wayne
···
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 11:02 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
Wayne/Trevor et al,
re: PH
As mentioned my worry has been boats changing configuration - i.e. users
using the race-specific rating in Edit+Result - well what about - as a
quick
tweak - I added a option to Edit+ScoringSystem to say "set the race
specific rating in Edit+Result based on ave Rwin". It's a very quick
tweak
that would give you a PH capability and avoid my worry - because the
race-specific ratings becomes the PH. Is that worth doing?CJ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wayne Nolan [mailto:wayne.nolan@paradise.net.nz]
> Sent: 07 October 2004 10:46
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
>
>
>
> Hi Colin
>
> Great to hear you are making PH the next priority. We have
> adopted your step 1 proposal for our summer season which started
> 3 weeks ago. All boats sail a series with a set handicap and any
> adjustments won't take effect till the new series.
>
> Can't wait till the end of Nov when I can through out all the
> spreadsheets we currently use for averaging RWin.
>
> Cheers Wayne
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Colin Jenkins
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:24 PM
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
>
>
> Cris and anybody that wants PH facilities,
>
> PH is by far the most common request for dev at the moment -
> and anyway Rob
> flipped a coin and decided it would be next, so it will be done
> immediately
> after 1.58 has been released, which should be by the end of
> October. So I
> estimate by the end of November. However I cannot commit to
> these estimates
> because Sailwave is a hobby and I only get to do it in 'spare'
> time... If
> work gets mad or I have unexpected family commitments, Sailwave
> it the first
> thing to 'suffer'.
>
> There is one huge problem with PH - which is that everybody does it
> differently - also some clubs allow competitrors to change
> boats/configurations during a series, which really thows a
> spanner in the
> works.
>
> What if we simplified for step 1 - each competiutor sails the same
> boat/configuration with the same default rating for the duration of a
> Sailwave series... Would that affect anybody that wants the PH
> tools...?
>
> Regards,
> Colin
> www.sailwave.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: chris_nsc [mailto:malcolm.chris@xtra.co.nz]
> > Sent: 04 October 2004 20:24
> > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Colin,
> > Can you give me an idea of when the individual handicap system will
> > be up and running, as it would greatly assist our club with
> > computerising the handicapping.
> >
> > Thanks very much
> >
> > Chris Kenah
> > Napier Sailing Club
> > NZ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
> > http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
> >
> > Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
> > sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Colin
Currently I'm applying PH via the custom rating which seems to work fine.
However your suggested step one would be excellent - we revise PH after each
series only, and require that changes to boats/configuration can only be
done with written approval of the sailing committee (so we won't allow
changes within a series)
Cheers, Willem
···
--
Dr Willem de Lange
Department of Earth Sciences
School of Science and Engineering
The University of Waikato
Private Bag 3105
Hamilton 2001
New Zealand
Fax +64 7 856 0115
Ph +64 7 838 4024
DDI +64 7 838 4239
http://www.erth.waikato.ac.nz/
Colin et al,
I have followed the exchange on this subject and whilst everyone is making
good suggestions it shows that there is quite a range of requirements. I
see there are several separate requirements:
1.. A system which can calculate Personal Handicaps (PH) using varying
methods, e.g Rwin based on the 'n'th competitor or Rwin based on some
average of a set of the competitors in a race, PH calculated using the
method documented by the RYA or any other National Authority (NA).
2.. A mechanism to make use of the PH calculated for each individual race
to be made use over a number of races (a settable parameter) to use as the
PH for the next race to be sailed. FYI - I know of a for pay race results
program that has this facility and more.
3.. A system which uses the published handicap numbers by NA's such RYA &
US Sailing, for each race and stores the calculated performance indicator
(PI) using the published method by an NA for each boat for each race. The
stored information is then analysed to produce the information to be
returned to the NA in the format required. The RYA publish how to carry out
this process for their Annual Return in a publication called YR2 each year
and am sure the UK contributors are aware of this.
Your idea in an earlier reply to have a mechanism to take the raw race data
out of Sailwave and dump it into a database which we all share to do the
analysis for item 3 is wonderful and something that I had been thinking of
suggesting to the RYA to enhance their annual data gathering process. It
would also perhaps allow regular updates to a web page to give an idea of
how classes are performing more frequently than the once a year publication,
especially for new classes.
I could go on with my thoughts but that is enough for now.
Kind regards,
Huw Pearce
WebMaster, Datchet Water Sailing Club
www www.dwsc.co.uk
e-mail webmaster@dwsc.co.uk
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:25 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
Cris and anybody that wants PH facilities,
PH is by far the most common request for dev at the moment - and anyway
Rob
flipped a coin and decided it would be next, so it will be done
immediately
after 1.58 has been released, which should be by the end of October. So I
estimate by the end of November. However I cannot commit to these
estimates
because Sailwave is a hobby and I only get to do it in 'spare' time... If
work gets mad or I have unexpected family commitments, Sailwave it the
first
thing to 'suffer'.
There is one huge problem with PH - which is that everybody does it
differently - also some clubs allow competitrors to change
boats/configurations during a series, which really thows a spanner in the
works.
What if we simplified for step 1 - each competiutor sails the same
boat/configuration with the same default rating for the duration of a
Sailwave series... Would that affect anybody that wants the PH tools...?
Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chris_nsc [mailto:malcolm.chris@xtra.co.nz]
> Sent: 04 October 2004 20:24
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Colin,
> Can you give me an idea of when the individual handicap system will
> be up and running, as it would greatly assist our club with
> computerising the handicapping.
>
> Thanks very much
>
> Chris Kenah
> Napier Sailing Club
> NZ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
> http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
>
> Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re 'unfair' PH adjustment based on one race.
To eliminate the impact of this, I have applied the following principles:
- Update PH every qualifying race
- Calculate a Performance Index (PI) for each race
- Divide sum of PI's by number of races to arrive at average PI (overall PH)
for an individual
- Reduce average by 40% for 1st race, 20% for 2nd race
By using all PI's & races sailed, the more races a sailor completes, the
less impact one race has.
The down side is obviously that it is more difficult to change a PH so
current performance is not recognised. To overcome this, from time to time I
reduce the sum of PI's & races sailed so that the same PH is arrived at but
over less races.
The above 'methods' may not be statistically sound but they work & provide
something to talk about round the bar, other than who had the most
spectacular gybe, capsize or near miss
Regards
Ralph
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Nolan [mailto:wayne.nolan@paradise.net.nz]
Sent: 07 October 2004 19:40
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
Hi Colin
That sounds great and will certainly give one and all a chance to test and
I'm sure you will get plenty of feedback as is evident by the 20 odd e-mails
received I overnight.
Mike, I think it was, suggested adjustment after each race. We have tried
this using spreadsheets prior to using Sailwave and discovered that people
can use it to get good handicaps for the next race. Also one race the boat
I sailed on, a 25ft Trailer Yacht, broke a shackle on the traveller and we
had to make repairs meaning we finished back in the fleet. Next race our
handicap was adjusted and we won on handicap. Note I was not involved in
handicapping at that point. Actually it was that incident that made me get
involved to see if we could find a better way.
Cheers Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Jenkins" <colin@sailwave.com>
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 11:02 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
Wayne/Trevor et al,
re: PH
As mentioned my worry has been boats changing configuration - i.e. users
using the race-specific rating in Edit+Result - well what about - as a
quick
tweak - I added a option to Edit+ScoringSystem to say "set the race
specific rating in Edit+Result based on ave Rwin". It's a very quick
tweak
that would give you a PH capability and avoid my worry - because the
race-specific ratings becomes the PH. Is that worth doing?CJ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wayne Nolan [mailto:wayne.nolan@paradise.net.nz]
> Sent: 07 October 2004 10:46
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
>
>
>
> Hi Colin
>
> Great to hear you are making PH the next priority. We have
> adopted your step 1 proposal for our summer season which started
> 3 weeks ago. All boats sail a series with a set handicap and any
> adjustments won't take effect till the new series.
>
> Can't wait till the end of Nov when I can through out all the
> spreadsheets we currently use for averaging RWin.
>
> Cheers Wayne
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Colin Jenkins
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 8:24 PM
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
>
>
> Cris and anybody that wants PH facilities,
>
> PH is by far the most common request for dev at the moment -
> and anyway Rob
> flipped a coin and decided it would be next, so it will be done
> immediately
> after 1.58 has been released, which should be by the end of
> October. So I
> estimate by the end of November. However I cannot commit to
> these estimates
> because Sailwave is a hobby and I only get to do it in 'spare'
> time... If
> work gets mad or I have unexpected family commitments, Sailwave
> it the first
> thing to 'suffer'.
>
> There is one huge problem with PH - which is that everybody does it
> differently - also some clubs allow competitrors to change
> boats/configurations during a series, which really thows a
> spanner in the
> works.
>
> What if we simplified for step 1 - each competiutor sails the same
> boat/configuration with the same default rating for the duration of a
> Sailwave series... Would that affect anybody that wants the PH
> tools...?
>
> Regards,
> Colin
> www.sailwave.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: chris_nsc [mailto:malcolm.chris@xtra.co.nz]
> > Sent: 04 October 2004 20:24
> > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [sailwave] Individual Handicaps
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Colin,
> > Can you give me an idea of when the individual handicap system will
> > be up and running, as it would greatly assist our club with
> > computerising the handicapping.
> >
> > Thanks very much
> >
> > Chris Kenah
> > Napier Sailing Club
> > NZ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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