ISAF XRR and sailwave

Imported from Yahoo
1

Sitting in on meetings at ISAF Conference.

There is a proposal to set ISAF XRR as the standard for Result Reporting.

Question - does Sailwave handle this?

Gordon

2

Never heard of it.

···

Sent from my iPad mike butterfield

On 5 Nov 2012, at 17:58, “Gordon Davies” gordondavies@eircom.net wrote:

Sitting in on meetings at ISAF Conference.

There is a proposal to set ISAF XRR as the standard for Result Reporting.

Question - does Sailwave handle this?

Gordon

3

Look at http://www.sailing.org/xml/

Regards / Vänliga hälsningar
Anders Landenstad

···

5 nov 2012 kl. 18:59 skrev Patricia Butterfield pmbutterfield@msn.com:

Never heard of it.

Sent from my iPad mike butterfield

On 5 Nov 2012, at 17:58, “Gordon Davies” gordondavies@eircom.net wrote:

Sitting in on meetings at ISAF Conference.

There is a proposal to set ISAF XRR as the standard for Result Reporting.

Question - does Sailwave handle this?

Gordon

4

Hi Gordon,

Sailwave supports the specification as currently available on the

ISAF web site - under Plugins on menu bar. I have used it for the
last 3 years to send the results of the Skandia Sail for Gold
Regatta to ISAF. I also used the functionality to send the results
for the events in Helsinki last year to ISAF as well.

I also managed to extract Laser results from ZW and import into

Sailwave so they could be sent to ISAF using the XRR specification.

Having read the submission on XRR, it is the expansion to cover more

than just the results that is interesting. So I am waiting for the
final minutes of the meeting to see what might have been decided.
There are also other deliberations that are going on that might have
more of an immediate impact on Sailwave. There are discussions going
on about race formats and mechanisms to decide winner, such as:

  •     stadium format as used at the recent 49er championship in

    Italy

  • multi-race medal series with each race scoring double

  • medal race winner is the event winner

    Kind regards,

    Huw

···

On 05/11/2012 17:57, Gordon Davies
wrote:

Sitting in on meetings at ISAF Conference.

          There is a proposal to set ISAF XRR as the standard for

Result Reporting.

          Question - does Sailwave handle this?

          Gordon
5

In view of the recent dsicussion re Joomla, does this (a) suggest we should be looking at Joomla taking the ISAF format (means the solution isn’t restricted to taking results from SWave)?

···

On 2012-11-05 19:34, Huw Pearce wrote:

Hi Gordon,

Sailwave supports the specification as currently available on the ISAF web site - under Plugins on menu bar. I have used it for the last 3 years to send the results of the Skandia Sail for Gold Regatta to ISAF. I also used the functionality to send the results for the events in Helsinki last year to ISAF as well.

6

For the time being, a higher priority would be to make Sailwave conform completely to the new rules that will go into effect on Jan. 1, 2013. Four items that I am aware of (off the top of my head):

1. RAF becomes RET
2. New scoring code DPI - Discretionary penalty imposed
3. Long series scoring (rule A9) as an option
4. Automatically handling tied race-scores correctly: add the two (or more) scores together, divide by two (or more), display an extra decimal place if necessary, add the complete race-score to the total (displaying an extra decimal place for the total if necessary).

Items 3 and 4 aren't new but Sailwave doesn't automatically comply now unless one makes special arrangements. For #3 this ought to be a selectable option and for #4 it should probably just do it (with an explanation of what it did in the documentation).

At least 4 years back, the scoring codes in rule A11 became "required" instead of "recommended." That means we technically need a specific rule change in the SIs to use scoring codes other than those listed in rule A11. Not a problem but Sailwave should probably highlight that by having non-conforming scoring codes displayed in a different color to remind folks that they technically shouldn't be using them without a rule change in their SIs (I am thinking of on the scoring codes definitions page but maybe in the table as well - certainly not when published however). [I doubt anyone is going to get redress if the RC uses scoring codes improperly but we certainly ought to be doing it right if we can.]

Art

PS - As Huw points out, ISAF XRR has been the "standard" for a while now. Apparently, the "change" would be the addition of more stuff in the XML schema. In any event, it doesn't have a big impact on the sport as most scoring programs continue to output either HTML or PDF for printing and posting to the web. I would put this as a LOW priority item although it might be easy to implement.

···

On 11/5/2012 11:34 AM, Huw Pearce wrote:

Hi Gordon,

Sailwave supports the specification as currently available on the ISAF
web site - under Plugins on menu bar. I have used it for the last 3
years to send the results of the Skandia Sail for Gold Regatta to ISAF.
I also used the functionality to send the results for the events in
Helsinki last year to ISAF as well.

I also managed to extract Laser results from ZW and import into Sailwave
so they could be sent to ISAF using the XRR specification.

Having read the submission on XRR, it is the expansion to cover more
than just the results that is interesting. So I am waiting for the final
minutes of the meeting to see what might have been decided. There are
also other deliberations that are going on that might have more of an
immediate impact on Sailwave. There are discussions going on about race
formats and mechanisms to decide winner, such as:

* stadium format as used at the recent 49er championship in Italy
* multi-race medal series with each race scoring double
* medal race winner is the event winner

Kind regards,
Huw
On 05/11/2012 17:57, Gordon Davies wrote:

Sitting in on meetings at ISAF Conference.

There is a proposal to set ISAF XRR as the standard for Result Reporting.

Question - does Sailwave handle this?

Gordon

7

For the time being, a higher priority would be to make Sailwave conform
completely to the new rules that will go into effect on Jan. 1, 2013.
Four items that I am aware of (off the top of my head):

  1. RAF becomes RET
  2. New scoring code DPI - Discretionary penalty imposed

Unless I’m mistaken they are just new codes? If you create them once in a template and use that template they’ll be there…

  1. Long series scoring (rule A9) as an option

Not for one minute going to pretend I understand the changes - but is this that sailwave treats DNF and DNC the same? Again DNF can be set to a different value and saved in the template. If I’m not mistaken this can be done by creating a scoring system called “Appendix A (longer than a regatta)” and then you just pick it.

  1. Automatically handling tied race-scores correctly: add the two (or
    more) scores together, divide by two (or more), display an extra decimal
    place if necessary, add the complete race-score to the total (displaying
    an extra decimal place for the total if necessary).

I assume somethings changed in the rules for 2013 on this that I haven’t yet picked up on.

PS - As Huw points out, ISAF XRR has been the “standard” for a while
now. Apparently, the “change” would be the addition of more stuff in the
XML schema. In any event, it doesn’t have a big impact on the sport as
most scoring programs continue to output either HTML or PDF for printing
and posting to the web. I would put this as a LOW priority item although
it might be easy to implement.

Standards compliance is far more important than you might think. If you are unable to read in or send out a file to a results site (be that ISAF or anyone else who decides they want to be standards only) people will move software even if that software is clunky and difficult to use… They may start only doing that for the ISAF event, but they’ll learn the clunky stuff and just live with it and suddenly we’d be wondering why we have no users…

On the other hand be compliant and people will move to you… which is good cause SW is not clunky or difficult.

···

On 2012-11-05 23:35, Art Engel wrote:

8

As I understand it one concern is that sailing is one of the few Olympic sports not to have a standard reporting system. The other concern was that event organisers/scorers should not have any additional work. XRR should be integrated into the scoring programme.

Looks like Sailwave does that for fleet racing.

Gordon

PS Match racing, team racing, radiosailing...kite boarding - one day?

···

On 05/11/2012 23:54, yahoo@wittongilbert.free-online.co.uk wrote:

On 2012-11-05 23:35, Art Engel wrote:

For the time being, a higher priority would be to make Sailwave conform
completely to the new rules that will go into effect on Jan. 1, 2013.
Four items that I am aware of (off the top of my head):

1. RAF becomes RET
2. New scoring code DPI - Discretionary penalty imposed

Unless I'm mistaken they are just new codes? If you create them once in a template and use that template they'll be there...

3. Long series scoring (rule A9) as an option

Not for one minute going to pretend I understand the changes - but is this that sailwave treats DNF and DNC the same? Again DNF can be set to a different value and saved in the template. If I'm not mistaken this can be done by creating a scoring system called "Appendix A (longer than a regatta)" and then you just pick it.

4. Automatically handling tied race-scores correctly: add the two (or
more) scores together, divide by two (or more), display an extra decimal
place if necessary, add the complete race-score to the total (displaying
an extra decimal place for the total if necessary).

I assume somethings changed in the rules for 2013 on this that I haven't yet picked up on.

PS - As Huw points out, ISAF XRR has been the "standard" for a while
now. Apparently, the "change" would be the addition of more stuff in the
XML schema. In any event, it doesn't have a big impact on the sport as
most scoring programs continue to output either HTML or PDF for printing
and posting to the web. I would put this as a LOW priority item although
it might be easy to implement.

Standards compliance is far more important than you might think. If you are unable to read in or send out a file to a results site (be that ISAF or anyone else who decides they want to be standards only) people will move software even if that software is clunky and difficult to use... They may start only doing that for the ISAF event, but they'll learn the clunky stuff and just live with it and suddenly we'd be wondering why we have no users...

On the other hand be compliant and people will move to you... which is good cause SW is not clunky or difficult.

9

In view of the recent dsicussion re Joomla, does
this (a) suggest we should be looking at Joomla taking the ISAF format
(means the solution isn't restricted to taking results from SWave)?

Wow, that's a really interesting idea. I was looking at Sailwave's XML output feature as a potential starting point for loading information about a race into a database. Using a standard like this would be much better (albeit less detailed than Sailwave, I suspect).