I sail PHRF mixed fleet in our area. We use ToT for Wednesday around the can races and ToD for long distance or offsore races. Currently, it appears that a boat can only have one PHRF handicap rating per series btu I’m wondering if it would be possible to assign a boat a rating on a race by race basis within the same series?
Two examples:
-
Two weekends per year we do around the can races on the Saturday and a longer distance rating on the Sunday. Several boats in our fleet have a mixed PHRF rating dependng on whether the race is windward/leeward or offshore. I set up the entire weekend as a single series file in Sailwave since the total of all races is what counts; but because I can’t change a boats rating mid series, I’m required to run the Sunday race separately then manually add it up afterwards.
-
Our fleet is considering trying a “golf handicap” system whereby each week, the boat that finishes first in their fleet gets a three second penalty to their PHRF rating the following week, while the boat that finished last will get a three second bonus. This will continue throughout the entire season (21 races all in one series) meaning that every week, 6 boats will have a different rating than the week before (2 boats per fleet x 3 fleets in out club).
So, is there a way of adjusting PHRF ratings on a race by race basis without it screwing up the results of all the previously sailed races?
Thanks.
Hi - Ratings can be changed on a race by race basis for each boat individually if required
If you select the appropriate results cell and right click and select edit result you should get something similar to this.
![Inline images 1]()
Here you can enter the rating to be used for this race and the tick box below allows the new rating to be used until it is changed again.
Another possibility you could consider is the wind index ratings - this might be a quicker way of doing what you want (depends upon you situation). But with this you can change the ratings for classes on a race by race basis.
As for topic 2 you would have to use the method of adjusting each boat as required as described above, although if you wanted to, you could possibly use the NHC setting and use a custom template and it could automate the whole process.
Jon
···
On 13 February 2017 at 20:18, cs_winn@yahoo.co.uk [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
I sail PHRF mixed fleet in our area. We use ToT for Wednesday around the can races and ToD for long distance or offsore races. Currently, it appears that a boat can only have one PHRF handicap rating per series btu I’m wondering if it would be possible to assign a boat a rating on a race by race basis within the same series?
Two examples:
- Two weekends per year we do around the can races on the Saturday and a longer distance rating on the Sunday. Several boats in our fleet have a mixed PHRF rating dependng on whether the race is windward/leeward or offshore. I set up the entire weekend as a single series file in Sailwave since the total of all races is what counts; but because I can’t change a boats rating mid series, I’m required to run the Sunday race separately then manually add it up afterwards.
- Our fleet is considering trying a “golf handicap” system whereby each week, the boat that finishes first in their fleet gets a three second penalty to their PHRF rating the following week, while the boat that finished last will get a three second bonus. This will continue throughout the entire season (21 races all in one series) meaning that every week, 6 boats will have a different rating than the week before (2 boats per fleet x 3 fleets in out club).
So, is there a way of adjusting PHRF ratings on a race by race basis without it screwing up the results of all the previously sailed races?
Thanks.
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype “eskdale”
Our local PHRF organization issues 3 types of rating - Buoy
(windward/leeward), Random Leg and Off Wind Course. When a series of
races uses two or more of the types we use the wind-indexed method to
quickly change between rating types. We've also used it for ORR ratings,
which actually are indexed to the wind strength. It takes a little
effort to figure out how to use them and teach the scorers but it makes
things pretty simple once all the scorers are up to speed.
Art
···
On 2/13/2017 4:14 PM, Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com [sailwave] wrote:
Hi - Ratings can be changed on a race by race basis for each boat
individually if required
If you select the appropriate results cell and right click and select edit
result you should get something similar to this.
[image: Inline images 1]
Here you can enter the rating to be used for this race and the tick box
below allows the new rating to be used until it is changed again.
Another possibility you could consider is the wind index ratings - this
might be a quicker way of doing what you want (depends upon you situation).
But with this you can change the ratings for classes on a race by race
basis.
As for topic 2 you would have to use the method of adjusting each boat as
required as described above, although if you wanted to, you could possibly
use the NHC setting and use a custom template and it could automate the
whole process.
Jon
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype "eskdale"
On 13 February 2017 at 20:18, cs_winn@yahoo.co.uk [sailwave] < > sailwave@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I sail PHRF mixed fleet in our area. We use ToT for Wednesday around the
can races and ToD for long distance or offsore races. Currently, it
appears that a boat can only have one PHRF handicap rating per series btu
I'm wondering if it would be possible to assign a boat a rating on a race
by race basis within the same series?
Two examples:
1) Two weekends per year we do around the can races on the Saturday and a
longer distance rating on the Sunday. Several boats in our fleet have a
mixed PHRF rating dependng on whether the race is windward/leeward or
offshore. I set up the entire weekend as a single series file in Sailwave
since the total of all races is what counts; but because I can't change a
boats rating mid series, I'm required to run the Sunday race separately
then manually add it up afterwards.
2) Our fleet is considering trying a "golf handicap" system whereby each
week, the boat that finishes first in their fleet gets a three second
penalty to their PHRF rating the following week, while the boat that
finished last will get a three second bonus. This will continue throughout
the entire season (21 races all in one series) meaning that every week, 6
boats will have a different rating than the week before (2 boats per fleet
x 3 fleets in out club).
So, is there a way of adjusting PHRF ratings on a race by race basis
without it screwing up the results of all the previously sailed races?
Thanks.
PHRF of the Chesapeake is going to a similar system with Windward/Leeward and Random/Circular leg ratings. I have set up a test case to prepare for the new ratings
using Wind Indexed Ratings, and it appears to work unless that is aa assign personal handicap rule to adjust the handicap (e.g., Golf or our Overall Fleet Time per Mile where I use assign personal handicaps to give the non-spinnakers additional percentage
handicap over their base handicap). Is there a way to have personal handicap adjustments and wind indexed ratings for each race in the series without using a custom spreadsheet and RYA HNC? If not, has anyone created a custom spreadsheet to do this type
of rating adjustment for each race?
Thanks,
Tom Owen
Dahlgren Yacht Club
···
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 9:16 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Our local PHRF organization issues 3 types of rating - Buoy
(windward/leeward), Random Leg and Off Wind Course. When a series of
races uses two or more of the types we use the wind-indexed method to
quickly change between rating types. We’ve also used it for ORR ratings,
which actually are indexed to the wind strength. It takes a little
effort to figure out how to use them and teach the scorers but it makes
things pretty simple once all the scorers are up to speed.
Art
On 2/13/2017 4:14 PM, Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com [sailwave] wrote:
Hi - Ratings can be changed on a race by race basis for each boat
individually if required
If you select the appropriate results cell and right click and select edit
result you should get something similar to this.
[image: Inline images 1]
Here you can enter the rating to be used for this race and the tick box
below allows the new rating to be used until it is changed again.
Another possibility you could consider is the wind index ratings - this
might be a quicker way of doing what you want (depends upon you situation).
But with this you can change the ratings for classes on a race by race
basis.
As for topic 2 you would have to use the method of adjusting each boat as
required as described above, although if you wanted to, you could possibly
use the NHC setting and use a custom template and it could automate the
whole process.
Jon
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype “eskdale”
On 13 February 2017 at 20:18, cs_winn@yahoo.co.uk [sailwave] <
sailwave@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I sail PHRF mixed fleet in our area. We use ToT for Wednesday around the
can races and ToD for long distance or offsore races. Currently, it
appears that a boat can only have one PHRF handicap rating per series btu
I’m wondering if it would be possible to assign a boat a rating on a race
by race basis within the same series?
Two examples:
-
Two weekends per year we do around the can races on the Saturday and a
longer distance rating on the Sunday. Several boats in our fleet have a
mixed PHRF rating dependng on whether the race is windward/leeward or
offshore. I set up the entire weekend as a single series file in Sailwave
since the total of all races is what counts; but because I can’t change a
boats rating mid series, I’m required to run the Sunday race separately
then manually add it up afterwards.
-
Our fleet is considering trying a “golf handicap” system whereby each
week, the boat that finishes first in their fleet gets a three second
penalty to their PHRF rating the following week, while the boat that
finished last will get a three second bonus. This will continue throughout
the entire season (21 races all in one series) meaning that every week, 6
boats will have a different rating than the week before (2 boats per fleet
x 3 fleets in out club).
So, is there a way of adjusting PHRF ratings on a race by race basis
without it screwing up the results of all the previously sailed races?
Thanks.
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
Tom,
We've done what I think you want using aliases. Assume you want to score
each boat twice, once with the normal ratings (which would be
wind-indexed by type) and a second time with the personal skipper handicaps.
If this is what you want then I'd use aliases. You could simply have two
Sailwave files and input the finishes twice but aliases work pretty well
and everything can be done in a single file.
With aliases you can create a second version of each competitor. The 2nd
version inherits the finishing time and status (i.e., scoring codes) of
the original competitor but everything else can change - it can be in a
different class or have a different rating. So, you'd enter your
finishing times once for the original competitor and the same time would
automatically be assigned to the alias competitor (the so-called
"recorded result" for the alias competitor cannot be changed and if you
click on the result for an alias competitor it tells you that any edits
won't be saved - you need to edit the original competitor).
There are some tools for automatically making alias competitors. Under
"Setup|User interface" enable "Competitor aliasing" to make the tools
visible. Under "Edit|New Competitor Aliasing" you can select the
competitors you want to create aliases for (before doing that sort the
boats in an order that makes it easy to select the competitors you want
to create aliases for). You can then go and edit the new alias
competitors. You can't edit the results for the alias competitors,
meaning finishing times and scoring codes, since those are inherited
from the original competitor, but you can change ratings. We've
generated SHs (skipper handicaps) separately and then entered them in
the alias competitors the morning of the race.
We've indicated aliased class by adding "SH" or "Skipper Handicap" to
the name. The Brits tend to use "PH" for skipper or golf handicapping
but that is too close to "PHRF" in our opinion so we stay away from that.
You can use the "Set competitor field" under "Tools" to assign
competitors to a class - each alias competitor is assigned an alias code
starting with the "@" symbol, such as "@197" so you can use the number
part of the code to decide which competitors to select for change to a
new class. It takes a bit of work to set it up the first time but once
you've got all the competitors (original and alias) assigned to the
classes you want it works pretty seamlessly. The Sail Number Wizard only
lists aliased boats once as the original boat so entering finishing
times manually is no harder than normal.
I suggest rescoring a race from last year with aliases and think you'll
find that once you've figured out the setup (which wasn't very intuitive
for us) it will all seem fairly straight-forward.
We've never used the NHC or spreadsheet stuff here and other than the
automation it presumably has one significant advantage - that it can
show the new handicap ratings that will be used for the next race. If I
understand correctly that cannot be shown on the race results but only
on the series results but that is based on what has been described in
the User Group and might be wrong. When we've used skipper or golf
handicaps locally we've usually used a custom scoring program that
displays the calculated new rating right next to the used rating for
each race (in other words, in the race results for each race rather than
the series results). We've using aliasing mostly for regrouping
competitors for scoring purposes but we've tested it and it works just
as well for using different ratings to double-score races, which is
HIGHLY recommended any time you use skipper or golf handicaps.
Art
···
On 2/15/2017 8:57 AM, Tom OWEN towen999@msn.com [sailwave] wrote:
PHRF of the Chesapeake is going to a similar system with
Windward/Leeward and Random/Circular leg ratings. I have set up a
test case to prepare for the new ratings using Wind Indexed Ratings,
and it appears to work unless that is aa assign personal handicap
rule to adjust the handicap (e.g., Golf or our Overall Fleet Time per
Mile where I use assign personal handicaps to give the non-spinnakers
additional percentage handicap over their base handicap). Is there a
way to have personal handicap adjustments and wind indexed ratings
for each race in the series without using a custom spreadsheet and
RYA HNC? If not, has anyone created a custom spreadsheet to do this
type of rating adjustment for each race?
Thanks, Tom Owen Dahlgren Yacht Club
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 9:16 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Our local PHRF organization issues 3 types of rating - Buoy
(windward/leeward), Random Leg and Off Wind Course. When a series of
races uses two or more of the types we use the wind-indexed method to
quickly change between rating types. We've also used it for ORR ratings,
which actually are indexed to the wind strength. It takes a little
effort to figure out how to use them and teach the scorers but it makes
things pretty simple once all the scorers are up to speed.
Art
On 2/13/2017 4:14 PM, Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com<mailto:jon@sailwave.com> [sailwave] wrote:
Hi - Ratings can be changed on a race by race basis for each boat
individually if required
If you select the appropriate results cell and right click and select edit
result you should get something similar to this.
[image: Inline images 1]
Here you can enter the rating to be used for this race and the tick box
below allows the new rating to be used until it is changed again.
Another possibility you could consider is the wind index ratings - this
might be a quicker way of doing what you want (depends upon you situation).
But with this you can change the ratings for classes on a race by race
basis.
As for topic 2 you would have to use the method of adjusting each boat as
required as described above, although if you wanted to, you could possibly
use the NHC setting and use a custom template and it could automate the
whole process.
Jon
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype "eskdale"
On 13 February 2017 at 20:18, cs_winn@yahoo.co.uk<mailto:cs_winn@yahoo.co.uk> [sailwave] < >> sailwave@yahoogroups.com<mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
I sail PHRF mixed fleet in our area. We use ToT for Wednesday around the
can races and ToD for long distance or offsore races. Currently, it
appears that a boat can only have one PHRF handicap rating per series btu
I'm wondering if it would be possible to assign a boat a rating on a race
by race basis within the same series?
Two examples:
1) Two weekends per year we do around the can races on the Saturday and a
longer distance rating on the Sunday. Several boats in our fleet have a
mixed PHRF rating dependng on whether the race is windward/leeward or
offshore. I set up the entire weekend as a single series file in Sailwave
since the total of all races is what counts; but because I can't change a
boats rating mid series, I'm required to run the Sunday race separately
then manually add it up afterwards.
2) Our fleet is considering trying a "golf handicap" system whereby each
week, the boat that finishes first in their fleet gets a three second
penalty to their PHRF rating the following week, while the boat that
finished last will get a three second bonus. This will continue throughout
the entire season (21 races all in one series) meaning that every week, 6
boats will have a different rating than the week before (2 boats per fleet
x 3 fleets in out club).
So, is there a way of adjusting PHRF ratings on a race by race basis
without it screwing up the results of all the previously sailed races?
Thanks.
Art,
Thanks for the info, but I do not think that is the desired solution. It appears that Set Personal Handicap will always be the handicap that is used. Attached
is my example. I currently use aliases to create the Overall Fleet which are the aliased competitors from the Spinnaker and Non-Spinnaker Fleets. We then use Set Personal Handicap tool to assign the handicap for the non-spinnaker boats (10% over their base
handicap) in the Overall Fleet. Then when we select the Wind Indexed rating for the race (*e.g., Random for SPLP-2), we get the proper rating for the Spinnaker and Non-Spinnaker Fleets, but get the assigned Personal Handicap for Non-Spinnaker start in the
Overall fleet. What we really want for the Non-Spinnaker start in the Overall Fleet is the effective wind indexed handicap adjusted by the 10% as set by the set Personal Handicap formula.
Thanks,
Tom
···
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 7:17 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Tom,
We’ve done what I think you want using aliases. Assume you want to score
each boat twice, once with the normal ratings (which would be
wind-indexed by type) and a second time with the personal skipper handicaps.
If this is what you want then I’d use aliases. You could simply have two
Sailwave files and input the finishes twice but aliases work pretty well
and everything can be done in a single file.
With aliases you can create a second version of each competitor. The 2nd
version inherits the finishing time and status (i.e., scoring codes) of
the original competitor but everything else can change - it can be in a
different class or have a different rating. So, you’d enter your
finishing times once for the original competitor and the same time would
automatically be assigned to the alias competitor (the so-called
“recorded result” for the alias competitor cannot be changed and if you
click on the result for an alias competitor it tells you that any edits
won’t be saved - you need to edit the original competitor).
There are some tools for automatically making alias competitors. Under
“Setup|User interface” enable “Competitor aliasing” to make the tools
visible. Under “Edit|New Competitor Aliasing” you can select the
competitors you want to create aliases for (before doing that sort the
boats in an order that makes it easy to select the competitors you want
to create aliases for). You can then go and edit the new alias
competitors. You can’t edit the results for the alias competitors,
meaning finishing times and scoring codes, since those are inherited
from the original competitor, but you can change ratings. We’ve
generated SHs (skipper handicaps) separately and then entered them in
the alias competitors the morning of the race.
We’ve indicated aliased class by adding “SH” or “Skipper Handicap” to
the name. The Brits tend to use “PH” for skipper or golf handicapping
but that is too close to “PHRF” in our opinion so we stay away from that.
You can use the “Set competitor field” under “Tools” to assign
competitors to a class - each alias competitor is assigned an alias code
starting with the “@” symbol, such as “@197” so you can use the number
part of the code to decide which competitors to select for change to a
new class. It takes a bit of work to set it up the first time but once
you’ve got all the competitors (original and alias) assigned to the
classes you want it works pretty seamlessly. The Sail Number Wizard only
lists aliased boats once as the original boat so entering finishing
times manually is no harder than normal.
I suggest rescoring a race from last year with aliases and think you’ll
find that once you’ve figured out the setup (which wasn’t very intuitive
for us) it will all seem fairly straight-forward.
We’ve never used the NHC or spreadsheet stuff here and other than the
automation it presumably has one significant advantage - that it can
show the new handicap ratings that will be used for the next race. If I
understand correctly that cannot be shown on the race results but only
on the series results but that is based on what has been described in
the User Group and might be wrong. When we’ve used skipper or golf
handicaps locally we’ve usually used a custom scoring program that
displays the calculated new rating right next to the used rating for
each race (in other words, in the race results for each race rather than
the series results). We’ve using aliasing mostly for regrouping
competitors for scoring purposes but we’ve tested it and it works just
as well for using different ratings to double-score races, which is
HIGHLY recommended any time you use skipper or golf handicaps.
Art
On 2/15/2017 8:57 AM, Tom OWEN towen999@msn.com [sailwave] wrote:
PHRF of the Chesapeake is going to a similar system with
Windward/Leeward and Random/Circular leg ratings. I have set up a
test case to prepare for the new ratings using Wind Indexed Ratings,
and it appears to work unless that is aa assign personal handicap
rule to adjust the handicap (e.g., Golf or our Overall Fleet Time per
Mile where I use assign personal handicaps to give the non-spinnakers
additional percentage handicap over their base handicap). Is there a
way to have personal handicap adjustments and wind indexed ratings
for each race in the series without using a custom spreadsheet and
RYA HNC? If not, has anyone created a custom spreadsheet to do this
type of rating adjustment for each race?
Thanks, Tom Owen Dahlgren Yacht Club
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 9:16 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Our local PHRF organization issues 3 types of rating - Buoy
(windward/leeward), Random Leg and Off Wind Course. When a series of
races uses two or more of the types we use the wind-indexed method to
quickly change between rating types. We’ve also used it for ORR ratings,
which actually are indexed to the wind strength. It takes a little
effort to figure out how to use them and teach the scorers but it makes
things pretty simple once all the scorers are up to speed.
Art
On 2/13/2017 4:14 PM, Jon Eskdale
jon@sailwave.commailto:jon@sailwave.com [sailwave] wrote:
Hi - Ratings can be changed on a race by race basis for each boat
individually if required
If you select the appropriate results cell and right click and select edit
result you should get something similar to this.
[image: Inline images 1]
Here you can enter the rating to be used for this race and the tick box
below allows the new rating to be used until it is changed again.
Another possibility you could consider is the wind index ratings - this
might be a quicker way of doing what you want (depends upon you situation).
But with this you can change the ratings for classes on a race by race
basis.
As for topic 2 you would have to use the method of adjusting each boat as
required as described above, although if you wanted to, you could possibly
use the NHC setting and use a custom template and it could automate the
whole process.
Jon
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype “eskdale”
On 13 February 2017 at 20:18,
cs_winn@yahoo.co.ukmailto:cs_winn@yahoo.co.uk [sailwave] <
sailwave@yahoogroups.commailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I sail PHRF mixed fleet in our area. We use ToT for Wednesday around the
can races and ToD for long distance or offsore races. Currently, it
appears that a boat can only have one PHRF handicap rating per series btu
I’m wondering if it would be possible to assign a boat a rating on a race
by race basis within the same series?
Two examples:
-
Two weekends per year we do around the can races on the Saturday and a
longer distance rating on the Sunday. Several boats in our fleet have a
mixed PHRF rating dependng on whether the race is windward/leeward or
offshore. I set up the entire weekend as a single series file in Sailwave
since the total of all races is what counts; but because I can’t change a
boats rating mid series, I’m required to run the Sunday race separately
then manually add it up afterwards.
-
Our fleet is considering trying a “golf handicap” system whereby each
week, the boat that finishes first in their fleet gets a three second
penalty to their PHRF rating the following week, while the boat that
finished last will get a three second bonus. This will continue throughout
the entire season (21 races all in one series) meaning that every week, 6
boats will have a different rating than the week before (2 boats per fleet
x 3 fleets in out club).
So, is there a way of adjusting PHRF ratings on a race by race basis
without it screwing up the results of all the previously sailed races?
Thanks.
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
Hi Tom - I read your email when it came in and then decided I would need to look when I had a bit more time to get my head around what it was you wanted 
To get the true situation you would also need to share your ratings file with the wind index.
I think I understand what you want but please feel free to correct me.
You want the Overall non spinnaker boats to have a different rating which is 10% different than the rating that is normal for that wind index.
If its only that then you could achieve this by having 2 additional wind index ratings in the file. As you have different starts defined for these then you could set the wind index to random10 for these starts.
Or is it more complicated what you are trying to achieve?
Jon
···
On 16 February 2017 at 13:47, Tom OWEN towen999@msn.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Art,
Thanks for the info, but I do not think that is the desired solution. It appears that Set Personal Handicap will always be the handicap that is used. Attached
is my example. I currently use aliases to create the Overall Fleet which are the aliased competitors from the Spinnaker and Non-Spinnaker Fleets. We then use Set Personal Handicap tool to assign the handicap for the non-spinnaker boats (10% over their base
handicap) in the Overall Fleet. Then when we select the Wind Indexed rating for the race (*e.g., Random for SPLP-2), we get the proper rating for the Spinnaker and Non-Spinnaker Fleets, but get the assigned Personal Handicap for Non-Spinnaker start in the
Overall fleet. What we really want for the Non-Spinnaker start in the Overall Fleet is the effective wind indexed handicap adjusted by the 10% as set by the set Personal Handicap formula.
Thanks,
Tom
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 7:17 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Tom,
We’ve done what I think you want using aliases. Assume you want to score
each boat twice, once with the normal ratings (which would be
wind-indexed by type) and a second time with the personal skipper handicaps.
If this is what you want then I’d use aliases. You could simply have two
Sailwave files and input the finishes twice but aliases work pretty well
and everything can be done in a single file.
With aliases you can create a second version of each competitor. The 2nd
version inherits the finishing time and status (i.e., scoring codes) of
the original competitor but everything else can change - it can be in a
different class or have a different rating. So, you’d enter your
finishing times once for the original competitor and the same time would
automatically be assigned to the alias competitor (the so-called
“recorded result” for the alias competitor cannot be changed and if you
click on the result for an alias competitor it tells you that any edits
won’t be saved - you need to edit the original competitor).
There are some tools for automatically making alias competitors. Under
“Setup|User interface” enable “Competitor aliasing” to make the tools
visible. Under “Edit|New Competitor Aliasing” you can select the
competitors you want to create aliases for (before doing that sort the
boats in an order that makes it easy to select the competitors you want
to create aliases for). You can then go and edit the new alias
competitors. You can’t edit the results for the alias competitors,
meaning finishing times and scoring codes, since those are inherited
from the original competitor, but you can change ratings. We’ve
generated SHs (skipper handicaps) separately and then entered them in
the alias competitors the morning of the race.
We’ve indicated aliased class by adding “SH” or “Skipper Handicap” to
the name. The Brits tend to use “PH” for skipper or golf handicapping
but that is too close to “PHRF” in our opinion so we stay away from that.
You can use the “Set competitor field” under “Tools” to assign
competitors to a class - each alias competitor is assigned an alias code
starting with the “@” symbol, such as “@197” so you can use the number
part of the code to decide which competitors to select for change to a
new class. It takes a bit of work to set it up the first time but once
you’ve got all the competitors (original and alias) assigned to the
classes you want it works pretty seamlessly. The Sail Number Wizard only
lists aliased boats once as the original boat so entering finishing
times manually is no harder than normal.
I suggest rescoring a race from last year with aliases and think you’ll
find that once you’ve figured out the setup (which wasn’t very intuitive
for us) it will all seem fairly straight-forward.
We’ve never used the NHC or spreadsheet stuff here and other than the
automation it presumably has one significant advantage - that it can
show the new handicap ratings that will be used for the next race. If I
understand correctly that cannot be shown on the race results but only
on the series results but that is based on what has been described in
the User Group and might be wrong. When we’ve used skipper or golf
handicaps locally we’ve usually used a custom scoring program that
displays the calculated new rating right next to the used rating for
each race (in other words, in the race results for each race rather than
the series results). We’ve using aliasing mostly for regrouping
competitors for scoring purposes but we’ve tested it and it works just
as well for using different ratings to double-score races, which is
HIGHLY recommended any time you use skipper or golf handicaps.
Art
On 2/15/2017 8:57 AM, Tom OWEN towen999@msn.com [sailwave] wrote:
PHRF of the Chesapeake is going to a similar system with
Windward/Leeward and Random/Circular leg ratings. I have set up a
test case to prepare for the new ratings using Wind Indexed Ratings,
and it appears to work unless that is aa assign personal handicap
rule to adjust the handicap (e.g., Golf or our Overall Fleet Time per
Mile where I use assign personal handicaps to give the non-spinnakers
additional percentage handicap over their base handicap). Is there a
way to have personal handicap adjustments and wind indexed ratings
for each race in the series without using a custom spreadsheet and
RYA HNC? If not, has anyone created a custom spreadsheet to do this
type of rating adjustment for each race?
Thanks, Tom Owen Dahlgren Yacht Club
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 9:16 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Our local PHRF organization issues 3 types of rating - Buoy
(windward/leeward), Random Leg and Off Wind Course. When a series of
races uses two or more of the types we use the wind-indexed method to
quickly change between rating types. We’ve also used it for ORR ratings,
which actually are indexed to the wind strength. It takes a little
effort to figure out how to use them and teach the scorers but it makes
things pretty simple once all the scorers are up to speed.
Art
On 2/13/2017 4:14 PM, Jon Eskdale
jon@sailwave.commailto:jon@sailwave.com [sailwave] wrote:
Hi - Ratings can be changed on a race by race basis for each boat
individually if required
If you select the appropriate results cell and right click and select edit
result you should get something similar to this.
[image: Inline images 1]
Here you can enter the rating to be used for this race and the tick box
below allows the new rating to be used until it is changed again.
Another possibility you could consider is the wind index ratings - this
might be a quicker way of doing what you want (depends upon you situation).
But with this you can change the ratings for classes on a race by race
basis.
As for topic 2 you would have to use the method of adjusting each boat as
required as described above, although if you wanted to, you could possibly
use the NHC setting and use a custom template and it could automate the
whole process.
Jon
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype “eskdale”
On 13 February 2017 at 20:18,
cs_winn@yahoo.co.ukmailto:cs_winn@yahoo.co.uk [sailwave] <
sailwave@yahoogroups.commailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I sail PHRF mixed fleet in our area. We use ToT for Wednesday around the
can races and ToD for long distance or offsore races. Currently, it
appears that a boat can only have one PHRF handicap rating per series btu
I’m wondering if it would be possible to assign a boat a rating on a race
by race basis within the same series?
Two examples:
-
Two weekends per year we do around the can races on the Saturday and a
longer distance rating on the Sunday. Several boats in our fleet have a
mixed PHRF rating dependng on whether the race is windward/leeward or
offshore. I set up the entire weekend as a single series file in Sailwave
since the total of all races is what counts; but because I can’t change a
boats rating mid series, I’m required to run the Sunday race separately
then manually add it up afterwards.
-
Our fleet is considering trying a “golf handicap” system whereby each
week, the boat that finishes first in their fleet gets a three second
penalty to their PHRF rating the following week, while the boat that
finished last will get a three second bonus. This will continue throughout
the entire season (21 races all in one series) meaning that every week, 6
boats will have a different rating than the week before (2 boats per fleet
x 3 fleets in out club).
So, is there a way of adjusting PHRF ratings on a race by race basis
without it screwing up the results of all the previously sailed races?
Thanks.
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype “eskdale”
Jon,
Thanks for the response and sorry for the bother. I was not using a rating file, but was manually entering the rating for each competitor. I had not thought
about that type of solution, but in theory it appears to be acceptable.
I created the attached rating file and pointed Sailwave to it. I also downloaded ussapn.csv from Sailwave website and put it in the same folder to try to find
out what is happening. I am not able to get the custom ratings to load in the attached .blw. I tried several things, but not none seem to help. If I try to edit a competitor, only classes that were known before adding and using the rating files are shown.
However, if I create a new .blw, I am able to select any class from both rating files. I think there is something in the 2016_PHRF_Spring_Low_Points!.blw that is preventing the rating files to be used.
Also, to create the adjusted handicaps, I used excel to create the adjustment in the first sheet, and the second sheet to create the data for the .csv. I save
the .csv file in the rating folder.
Thanks and have a great day,
Tom
···
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 5:42 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Hi Tom - I read your email when it came in and then decided I would need to look when I had a bit more time to get my head around what it was you wanted
To get the true situation you would also need to share your ratings file with the wind index.
I think I understand what you want but please feel free to correct me.
You want the Overall non spinnaker boats to have a different rating which is 10% different than the rating that is normal for that wind index.
If its only that then you could achieve this by having 2 additional wind index ratings in the file. As you have different starts defined for these then you could set the wind index to random10 for these starts.
Or is it more complicated what you are trying to achieve?
Jon
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype “eskdale”
On 16 February 2017 at 13:47, Tom OWEN
towen999@msn.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Art,
Thanks for the info, but I do not think that is the desired solution. It appears that Set Personal Handicap will always be the handicap that is used. Attached is my example. I currently
use aliases to create the Overall Fleet which are the aliased competitors from the Spinnaker and Non-Spinnaker Fleets. We then use Set Personal Handicap tool to assign the handicap for the non-spinnaker boats (10% over their base handicap) in the Overall
Fleet. Then when we select the Wind Indexed rating for the race (*e.g., Random for SPLP-2), we get the proper rating for the Spinnaker and Non-Spinnaker Fleets, but get the assigned Personal Handicap for Non-Spinnaker start in the Overall fleet. What we really
want for the Non-Spinnaker start in the Overall Fleet is the effective wind indexed handicap adjusted by the 10% as set by the set Personal Handicap formula.
Thanks,
Tom
From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 7:17 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Tom,
We’ve done what I think you want using aliases. Assume you want to score
each boat twice, once with the normal ratings (which would be
wind-indexed by type) and a second time with the personal skipper handicaps.
If this is what you want then I’d use aliases. You could simply have two
Sailwave files and input the finishes twice but aliases work pretty well
and everything can be done in a single file.
With aliases you can create a second version of each competitor. The 2nd
version inherits the finishing time and status (i.e., scoring codes) of
the original competitor but everything else can change - it can be in a
different class or have a different rating. So, you’d enter your
finishing times once for the original competitor and the same time would
automatically be assigned to the alias competitor (the so-called
“recorded result” for the alias competitor cannot be changed and if you
click on the result for an alias competitor it tells you that any edits
won’t be saved - you need to edit the original competitor).
There are some tools for automatically making alias competitors. Under
“Setup|User interface” enable “Competitor aliasing” to make the tools
visible. Under “Edit|New Competitor Aliasing” you can select the
competitors you want to create aliases for (before doing that sort the
boats in an order that makes it easy to select the competitors you want
to create aliases for). You can then go and edit the new alias
competitors. You can’t edit the results for the alias competitors,
meaning finishing times and scoring codes, since those are inherited
from the original competitor, but you can change ratings. We’ve
generated SHs (skipper handicaps) separately and then entered them in
the alias competitors the morning of the race.
We’ve indicated aliased class by adding “SH” or “Skipper Handicap” to
the name. The Brits tend to use “PH” for skipper or golf handicapping
but that is too close to “PHRF” in our opinion so we stay away from that.
You can use the “Set competitor field” under “Tools” to assign
competitors to a class - each alias competitor is assigned an alias code
starting with the “@” symbol, such as “@197” so you can use the number
part of the code to decide which competitors to select for change to a
new class. It takes a bit of work to set it up the first time but once
you’ve got all the competitors (original and alias) assigned to the
classes you want it works pretty seamlessly. The Sail Number Wizard only
lists aliased boats once as the original boat so entering finishing
times manually is no harder than normal.
I suggest rescoring a race from last year with aliases and think you’ll
find that once you’ve figured out the setup (which wasn’t very intuitive
for us) it will all seem fairly straight-forward.
We’ve never used the NHC or spreadsheet stuff here and other than the
automation it presumably has one significant advantage - that it can
show the new handicap ratings that will be used for the next race. If I
understand correctly that cannot be shown on the race results but only
on the series results but that is based on what has been described in
the User Group and might be wrong. When we’ve used skipper or golf
handicaps locally we’ve usually used a custom scoring program that
displays the calculated new rating right next to the used rating for
each race (in other words, in the race results for each race rather than
the series results). We’ve using aliasing mostly for regrouping
competitors for scoring purposes but we’ve tested it and it works just
as well for using different ratings to double-score races, which is
HIGHLY recommended any time you use skipper or golf handicaps.
Art
On 2/15/2017 8:57 AM, Tom OWEN
towen999@msn.com [sailwave] wrote:
PHRF of the Chesapeake is going to a similar system with
Windward/Leeward and Random/Circular leg ratings. I have set up a
test case to prepare for the new ratings using Wind Indexed Ratings,
and it appears to work unless that is aa assign personal handicap
rule to adjust the handicap (e.g., Golf or our Overall Fleet Time per
Mile where I use assign personal handicaps to give the non-spinnakers
additional percentage handicap over their base handicap). Is there a
way to have personal handicap adjustments and wind indexed ratings
for each race in the series without using a custom spreadsheet and
RYA HNC? If not, has anyone created a custom spreadsheet to do this
type of rating adjustment for each race?
Thanks, Tom Owen Dahlgren Yacht Club
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 9:16 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Our local PHRF organization issues 3 types of rating - Buoy
(windward/leeward), Random Leg and Off Wind Course. When a series of
races uses two or more of the types we use the wind-indexed method to
quickly change between rating types. We’ve also used it for ORR ratings,
which actually are indexed to the wind strength. It takes a little
effort to figure out how to use them and teach the scorers but it makes
things pretty simple once all the scorers are up to speed.
Art
On 2/13/2017 4:14 PM, Jon Eskdale
jon@sailwave.commailto:jon@sailwave.com [sailwave] wrote:
Hi - Ratings can be changed on a race by race basis for each boat
individually if required
If you select the appropriate results cell and right click and select edit
result you should get something similar to this.
[image: Inline images 1]
Here you can enter the rating to be used for this race and the tick box
below allows the new rating to be used until it is changed again.
Another possibility you could consider is the wind index ratings - this
might be a quicker way of doing what you want (depends upon you situation).
But with this you can change the ratings for classes on a race by race
basis.
As for topic 2 you would have to use the method of adjusting each boat as
required as described above, although if you wanted to, you could possibly
use the NHC setting and use a custom template and it could automate the
whole process.
Jon
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype “eskdale”
On 13 February 2017 at 20:18,
cs_winn@yahoo.co.ukmailto:cs_winn@yahoo.co.uk [sailwave] <
sailwave@yahoogroups.commailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I sail PHRF mixed fleet in our area. We use ToT for Wednesday around the
can races and ToD for long distance or offsore races. Currently, it
appears that a boat can only have one PHRF handicap rating per series btu
I’m wondering if it would be possible to assign a boat a rating on a race
by race basis within the same series?
Two examples:
-
Two weekends per year we do around the can races on the Saturday and a
longer distance rating on the Sunday. Several boats in our fleet have a
mixed PHRF rating dependng on whether the race is windward/leeward or
offshore. I set up the entire weekend as a single series file in Sailwave
since the total of all races is what counts; but because I can’t change a
boats rating mid series, I’m required to run the Sunday race separately
then manually add it up afterwards.
-
Our fleet is considering trying a “golf handicap” system whereby each
week, the boat that finishes first in their fleet gets a three second
penalty to their PHRF rating the following week, while the boat that
finished last will get a three second bonus. This will continue throughout
the entire season (21 races all in one series) meaning that every week, 6
boats will have a different rating than the week before (2 boats per fleet
x 3 fleets in out club).
So, is there a way of adjusting PHRF ratings on a race by race basis
without it screwing up the results of all the previously sailed races?
Thanks.
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
Hi Tom,
I’ve attached the modified file which works as far as I can see.
I’ve changed two of your fleets from PHRF ToT to be Custom as I didn’t have any rating tables to hand for PHRFToT
But it seems to work as I would expect. If you want the fleets defined as PHRF and have the appropriate rating tables then it should also work
Regards
Jon
···
On 18 February 2017 at 18:45, Tom OWEN towen999@msn.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Jon,
Thanks for the response and sorry for the bother. I was not using a rating file, but was manually entering the rating for each competitor. I had not thought
about that type of solution, but in theory it appears to be acceptable.
I created the attached rating file and pointed Sailwave to it. I also downloaded ussapn.csv from Sailwave website and put it in the same folder to try to find
out what is happening. I am not able to get the custom ratings to load in the attached .blw. I tried several things, but not none seem to help. If I try to edit a competitor, only classes that were known before adding and using the rating files are shown.
However, if I create a new .blw, I am able to select any class from both rating files. I think there is something in the 2016_PHRF_Spring_Low_Points!.blw that is preventing the rating files to be used.
Also, to create the adjusted handicaps, I used excel to create the adjustment in the first sheet, and the second sheet to create the data for the .csv. I save
the .csv file in the rating folder.
Thanks and have a great day,
Tom
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 5:42 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Hi Tom - I read your email when it came in and then decided I would need to look when I had a bit more time to get my head around what it was you wanted
To get the true situation you would also need to share your ratings file with the wind index.
I think I understand what you want but please feel free to correct me.
You want the Overall non spinnaker boats to have a different rating which is 10% different than the rating that is normal for that wind index.
If its only that then you could achieve this by having 2 additional wind index ratings in the file. As you have different starts defined for these then you could set the wind index to random10 for these starts.
Or is it more complicated what you are trying to achieve?
Jon
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype “eskdale”
On 16 February 2017 at 13:47, Tom OWEN
towen999@msn.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Art,
Thanks for the info, but I do not think that is the desired solution. It appears that Set Personal Handicap will always be the handicap that is used. Attached is my example. I currently
use aliases to create the Overall Fleet which are the aliased competitors from the Spinnaker and Non-Spinnaker Fleets. We then use Set Personal Handicap tool to assign the handicap for the non-spinnaker boats (10% over their base handicap) in the Overall
Fleet. Then when we select the Wind Indexed rating for the race (*e.g., Random for SPLP-2), we get the proper rating for the Spinnaker and Non-Spinnaker Fleets, but get the assigned Personal Handicap for Non-Spinnaker start in the Overall fleet. What we really
want for the Non-Spinnaker start in the Overall Fleet is the effective wind indexed handicap adjusted by the 10% as set by the set Personal Handicap formula.
Thanks,
Tom
From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 7:17 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Tom,
We’ve done what I think you want using aliases. Assume you want to score
each boat twice, once with the normal ratings (which would be
wind-indexed by type) and a second time with the personal skipper handicaps.
If this is what you want then I’d use aliases. You could simply have two
Sailwave files and input the finishes twice but aliases work pretty well
and everything can be done in a single file.
With aliases you can create a second version of each competitor. The 2nd
version inherits the finishing time and status (i.e., scoring codes) of
the original competitor but everything else can change - it can be in a
different class or have a different rating. So, you’d enter your
finishing times once for the original competitor and the same time would
automatically be assigned to the alias competitor (the so-called
“recorded result” for the alias competitor cannot be changed and if you
click on the result for an alias competitor it tells you that any edits
won’t be saved - you need to edit the original competitor).
There are some tools for automatically making alias competitors. Under
“Setup|User interface” enable “Competitor aliasing” to make the tools
visible. Under “Edit|New Competitor Aliasing” you can select the
competitors you want to create aliases for (before doing that sort the
boats in an order that makes it easy to select the competitors you want
to create aliases for). You can then go and edit the new alias
competitors. You can’t edit the results for the alias competitors,
meaning finishing times and scoring codes, since those are inherited
from the original competitor, but you can change ratings. We’ve
generated SHs (skipper handicaps) separately and then entered them in
the alias competitors the morning of the race.
We’ve indicated aliased class by adding “SH” or “Skipper Handicap” to
the name. The Brits tend to use “PH” for skipper or golf handicapping
but that is too close to “PHRF” in our opinion so we stay away from that.
You can use the “Set competitor field” under “Tools” to assign
competitors to a class - each alias competitor is assigned an alias code
starting with the “@” symbol, such as “@197” so you can use the number
part of the code to decide which competitors to select for change to a
new class. It takes a bit of work to set it up the first time but once
you’ve got all the competitors (original and alias) assigned to the
classes you want it works pretty seamlessly. The Sail Number Wizard only
lists aliased boats once as the original boat so entering finishing
times manually is no harder than normal.
I suggest rescoring a race from last year with aliases and think you’ll
find that once you’ve figured out the setup (which wasn’t very intuitive
for us) it will all seem fairly straight-forward.
We’ve never used the NHC or spreadsheet stuff here and other than the
automation it presumably has one significant advantage - that it can
show the new handicap ratings that will be used for the next race. If I
understand correctly that cannot be shown on the race results but only
on the series results but that is based on what has been described in
the User Group and might be wrong. When we’ve used skipper or golf
handicaps locally we’ve usually used a custom scoring program that
displays the calculated new rating right next to the used rating for
each race (in other words, in the race results for each race rather than
the series results). We’ve using aliasing mostly for regrouping
competitors for scoring purposes but we’ve tested it and it works just
as well for using different ratings to double-score races, which is
HIGHLY recommended any time you use skipper or golf handicaps.
Art
On 2/15/2017 8:57 AM, Tom OWEN
towen999@msn.com [sailwave] wrote:
PHRF of the Chesapeake is going to a similar system with
Windward/Leeward and Random/Circular leg ratings. I have set up a
test case to prepare for the new ratings using Wind Indexed Ratings,
and it appears to work unless that is aa assign personal handicap
rule to adjust the handicap (e.g., Golf or our Overall Fleet Time per
Mile where I use assign personal handicaps to give the non-spinnakers
additional percentage handicap over their base handicap). Is there a
way to have personal handicap adjustments and wind indexed ratings
for each race in the series without using a custom spreadsheet and
RYA HNC? If not, has anyone created a custom spreadsheet to do this
type of rating adjustment for each race?
Thanks, Tom Owen Dahlgren Yacht Club
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 9:16 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Our local PHRF organization issues 3 types of rating - Buoy
(windward/leeward), Random Leg and Off Wind Course. When a series of
races uses two or more of the types we use the wind-indexed method to
quickly change between rating types. We’ve also used it for ORR ratings,
which actually are indexed to the wind strength. It takes a little
effort to figure out how to use them and teach the scorers but it makes
things pretty simple once all the scorers are up to speed.
Art
On 2/13/2017 4:14 PM, Jon Eskdale
jon@sailwave.commailto:jon@sailwave.com [sailwave] wrote:
Hi - Ratings can be changed on a race by race basis for each boat
individually if required
If you select the appropriate results cell and right click and select edit
result you should get something similar to this.
[image: Inline images 1]
Here you can enter the rating to be used for this race and the tick box
below allows the new rating to be used until it is changed again.
Another possibility you could consider is the wind index ratings - this
might be a quicker way of doing what you want (depends upon you situation).
But with this you can change the ratings for classes on a race by race
basis.
As for topic 2 you would have to use the method of adjusting each boat as
required as described above, although if you wanted to, you could possibly
use the NHC setting and use a custom template and it could automate the
whole process.
Jon
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype “eskdale”
On 13 February 2017 at 20:18,
cs_winn@yahoo.co.ukmailto:cs_winn@yahoo.co.uk [sailwave] <
sailwave@yahoogroups.commailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I sail PHRF mixed fleet in our area. We use ToT for Wednesday around the
can races and ToD for long distance or offsore races. Currently, it
appears that a boat can only have one PHRF handicap rating per series btu
I’m wondering if it would be possible to assign a boat a rating on a race
by race basis within the same series?
Two examples:
-
Two weekends per year we do around the can races on the Saturday and a
longer distance rating on the Sunday. Several boats in our fleet have a
mixed PHRF rating dependng on whether the race is windward/leeward or
offshore. I set up the entire weekend as a single series file in Sailwave
since the total of all races is what counts; but because I can’t change a
boats rating mid series, I’m required to run the Sunday race separately
then manually add it up afterwards.
-
Our fleet is considering trying a “golf handicap” system whereby each
week, the boat that finishes first in their fleet gets a three second
penalty to their PHRF rating the following week, while the boat that
finished last will get a three second bonus. This will continue throughout
the entire season (21 races all in one series) meaning that every week, 6
boats will have a different rating than the week before (2 boats per fleet
x 3 fleets in out club).
So, is there a way of adjusting PHRF ratings on a race by race basis
without it screwing up the results of all the previously sailed races?
Thanks.
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype “eskdale”
Jon,
I added the PHRFTOT items to the rating file, updated the Fleet Scoring to use PHRFTOT as was done in my original .blw, and it appears to score correctly. YEAH!!!
Can you tell me what was wrong and/or what was set incorrectly and what was need to fix the problems so that I do not repeat the problems?
Thanks and have a great day,
Tom
···
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 2:28 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series [1 Attachment]
Hi Tom,
I’ve attached the modified file which works as far as I can see.
I’ve changed two of your fleets from PHRF ToT to be Custom as I didn’t have any rating tables to hand for PHRFToT
But it seems to work as I would expect. If you want the fleets defined as PHRF and have the appropriate rating tables then it should also work
Regards
Jon
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype “eskdale”
On 18 February 2017 at 18:45, Tom OWEN
towen999@msn.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Jon,
Thanks for the response and sorry for the bother. I was not using a rating file, but was manually entering the rating for each competitor. I had not thought about that type of solution,
but in theory it appears to be acceptable.
I created the attached rating file and pointed Sailwave to it. I also downloaded ussapn.csv from Sailwave website and put it in the same folder to try to find out what is happening.
I am not able to get the custom ratings to load in the attached .blw. I tried several things, but not none seem to help. If I try to edit a competitor, only classes that were known before adding and using the rating files are shown. However, if I create
a new .blw, I am able to select any class from both rating files. I think there is something in the 2016_PHRF_Spring_Low_Points!.blw that is preventing the rating files to be used.
Also, to create the adjusted handicaps, I used excel to create the adjustment in the first sheet, and the second sheet to create the data for the .csv. I save the .csv file in the
rating folder.
Thanks and have a great day,
Tom
From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 5:42 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Hi Tom - I read your email when it came in and then decided I would need to look when I had a bit more time to get my head around what it was you wanted
To get the true situation you would also need to share your ratings file with the wind index.
I think I understand what you want but please feel free to correct me.
You want the Overall non spinnaker boats to have a different rating which is 10% different than the rating that is normal for that wind index.
If its only that then you could achieve this by having 2 additional wind index ratings in the file. As you have different starts defined for these then you could set the wind index to random10 for these starts.
Or is it more complicated what you are trying to achieve?
Jon
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype “eskdale”
On 16 February 2017 at 13:47, Tom OWEN
towen999@msn.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Art,
Thanks for the info, but I do not think that is the desired solution. It appears that Set Personal Handicap will always be the handicap that is used. Attached is my example. I currently
use aliases to create the Overall Fleet which are the aliased competitors from the Spinnaker and Non-Spinnaker Fleets. We then use Set Personal Handicap tool to assign the handicap for the non-spinnaker boats (10% over their base handicap) in the Overall
Fleet. Then when we select the Wind Indexed rating for the race (*e.g., Random for SPLP-2), we get the proper rating for the Spinnaker and Non-Spinnaker Fleets, but get the assigned Personal Handicap for Non-Spinnaker start in the Overall fleet. What we really
want for the Non-Spinnaker start in the Overall Fleet is the effective wind indexed handicap adjusted by the 10% as set by the set Personal Handicap formula.
Thanks,
Tom
From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 7:17 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Tom,
We’ve done what I think you want using aliases. Assume you want to score
each boat twice, once with the normal ratings (which would be
wind-indexed by type) and a second time with the personal skipper handicaps.
If this is what you want then I’d use aliases. You could simply have two
Sailwave files and input the finishes twice but aliases work pretty well
and everything can be done in a single file.
With aliases you can create a second version of each competitor. The 2nd
version inherits the finishing time and status (i.e., scoring codes) of
the original competitor but everything else can change - it can be in a
different class or have a different rating. So, you’d enter your
finishing times once for the original competitor and the same time would
automatically be assigned to the alias competitor (the so-called
“recorded result” for the alias competitor cannot be changed and if you
click on the result for an alias competitor it tells you that any edits
won’t be saved - you need to edit the original competitor).
There are some tools for automatically making alias competitors. Under
“Setup|User interface” enable “Competitor aliasing” to make the tools
visible. Under “Edit|New Competitor Aliasing” you can select the
competitors you want to create aliases for (before doing that sort the
boats in an order that makes it easy to select the competitors you want
to create aliases for). You can then go and edit the new alias
competitors. You can’t edit the results for the alias competitors,
meaning finishing times and scoring codes, since those are inherited
from the original competitor, but you can change ratings. We’ve
generated SHs (skipper handicaps) separately and then entered them in
the alias competitors the morning of the race.
We’ve indicated aliased class by adding “SH” or “Skipper Handicap” to
the name. The Brits tend to use “PH” for skipper or golf handicapping
but that is too close to “PHRF” in our opinion so we stay away from that.
You can use the “Set competitor field” under “Tools” to assign
competitors to a class - each alias competitor is assigned an alias code
starting with the “@” symbol, such as “@197” so you can use the number
part of the code to decide which competitors to select for change to a
new class. It takes a bit of work to set it up the first time but once
you’ve got all the competitors (original and alias) assigned to the
classes you want it works pretty seamlessly. The Sail Number Wizard only
lists aliased boats once as the original boat so entering finishing
times manually is no harder than normal.
I suggest rescoring a race from last year with aliases and think you’ll
find that once you’ve figured out the setup (which wasn’t very intuitive
for us) it will all seem fairly straight-forward.
We’ve never used the NHC or spreadsheet stuff here and other than the
automation it presumably has one significant advantage - that it can
show the new handicap ratings that will be used for the next race. If I
understand correctly that cannot be shown on the race results but only
on the series results but that is based on what has been described in
the User Group and might be wrong. When we’ve used skipper or golf
handicaps locally we’ve usually used a custom scoring program that
displays the calculated new rating right next to the used rating for
each race (in other words, in the race results for each race rather than
the series results). We’ve using aliasing mostly for regrouping
competitors for scoring purposes but we’ve tested it and it works just
as well for using different ratings to double-score races, which is
HIGHLY recommended any time you use skipper or golf handicaps.
Art
On 2/15/2017 8:57 AM, Tom OWEN
towen999@msn.com [sailwave] wrote:
PHRF of the Chesapeake is going to a similar system with
Windward/Leeward and Random/Circular leg ratings. I have set up a
test case to prepare for the new ratings using Wind Indexed Ratings,
and it appears to work unless that is aa assign personal handicap
rule to adjust the handicap (e.g., Golf or our Overall Fleet Time per
Mile where I use assign personal handicaps to give the non-spinnakers
additional percentage handicap over their base handicap). Is there a
way to have personal handicap adjustments and wind indexed ratings
for each race in the series without using a custom spreadsheet and
RYA HNC? If not, has anyone created a custom spreadsheet to do this
type of rating adjustment for each race?
Thanks, Tom Owen Dahlgren Yacht Club
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 9:16 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Our local PHRF organization issues 3 types of rating - Buoy
(windward/leeward), Random Leg and Off Wind Course. When a series of
races uses two or more of the types we use the wind-indexed method to
quickly change between rating types. We’ve also used it for ORR ratings,
which actually are indexed to the wind strength. It takes a little
effort to figure out how to use them and teach the scorers but it makes
things pretty simple once all the scorers are up to speed.
Art
On 2/13/2017 4:14 PM, Jon Eskdale
jon@sailwave.commailto:jon@sailwave.com [sailwave] wrote:
Hi - Ratings can be changed on a race by race basis for each boat
individually if required
If you select the appropriate results cell and right click and select edit
result you should get something similar to this.
[image: Inline images 1]
Here you can enter the rating to be used for this race and the tick box
below allows the new rating to be used until it is changed again.
Another possibility you could consider is the wind index ratings - this
might be a quicker way of doing what you want (depends upon you situation).
But with this you can change the ratings for classes on a race by race
basis.
As for topic 2 you would have to use the method of adjusting each boat as
required as described above, although if you wanted to, you could possibly
use the NHC setting and use a custom template and it could automate the
whole process.
Jon
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype “eskdale”
On 13 February 2017 at 20:18,
cs_winn@yahoo.co.ukmailto:cs_winn@yahoo.co.uk [sailwave] <
sailwave@yahoogroups.commailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I sail PHRF mixed fleet in our area. We use ToT for Wednesday around the
can races and ToD for long distance or offsore races. Currently, it
appears that a boat can only have one PHRF handicap rating per series btu
I’m wondering if it would be possible to assign a boat a rating on a race
by race basis within the same series?
Two examples:
-
Two weekends per year we do around the can races on the Saturday and a
longer distance rating on the Sunday. Several boats in our fleet have a
mixed PHRF rating dependng on whether the race is windward/leeward or
offshore. I set up the entire weekend as a single series file in Sailwave
since the total of all races is what counts; but because I can’t change a
boats rating mid series, I’m required to run the Sunday race separately
then manually add it up afterwards.
-
Our fleet is considering trying a “golf handicap” system whereby each
week, the boat that finishes first in their fleet gets a three second
penalty to their PHRF rating the following week, while the boat that
finished last will get a three second bonus. This will continue throughout
the entire season (21 races all in one series) meaning that every week, 6
boats will have a different rating than the week before (2 boats per fleet
x 3 fleets in out club).
So, is there a way of adjusting PHRF ratings on a race by race basis
without it screwing up the results of all the previously sailed races?
Thanks.
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Hi Tom,
The changes I made were all in the scoring system with what was inherited for your different fleets and I ticked the Auto set competitor ratings to force it to read the rating files on a rescore.
![Inline images 1]()
Glad its working
Jon
···
On 18 February 2017 at 23:04, Tom OWEN towen999@msn.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Jon,
I added the PHRFTOT items to the rating file, updated the Fleet Scoring to use PHRFTOT as was done in my original .blw, and it appears to score correctly. YEAH!!!
Can you tell me what was wrong and/or what was set incorrectly and what was need to fix the problems so that I do not repeat the problems?
Thanks and have a great day,
Tom
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 2:28 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series [1 Attachment]
Hi Tom,
I’ve attached the modified file which works as far as I can see.
I’ve changed two of your fleets from PHRF ToT to be Custom as I didn’t have any rating tables to hand for PHRFToT
But it seems to work as I would expect. If you want the fleets defined as PHRF and have the appropriate rating tables then it should also work
Regards
Jon
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype “eskdale”
On 18 February 2017 at 18:45, Tom OWEN
towen999@msn.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Jon,
Thanks for the response and sorry for the bother. I was not using a rating file, but was manually entering the rating for each competitor. I had not thought about that type of solution,
but in theory it appears to be acceptable.
I created the attached rating file and pointed Sailwave to it. I also downloaded ussapn.csv from Sailwave website and put it in the same folder to try to find out what is happening.
I am not able to get the custom ratings to load in the attached .blw. I tried several things, but not none seem to help. If I try to edit a competitor, only classes that were known before adding and using the rating files are shown. However, if I create
a new .blw, I am able to select any class from both rating files. I think there is something in the 2016_PHRF_Spring_Low_Points!.blw that is preventing the rating files to be used.
Also, to create the adjusted handicaps, I used excel to create the adjustment in the first sheet, and the second sheet to create the data for the .csv. I save the .csv file in the
rating folder.
Thanks and have a great day,
Tom
From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 5:42 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Hi Tom - I read your email when it came in and then decided I would need to look when I had a bit more time to get my head around what it was you wanted
To get the true situation you would also need to share your ratings file with the wind index.
I think I understand what you want but please feel free to correct me.
You want the Overall non spinnaker boats to have a different rating which is 10% different than the rating that is normal for that wind index.
If its only that then you could achieve this by having 2 additional wind index ratings in the file. As you have different starts defined for these then you could set the wind index to random10 for these starts.
Or is it more complicated what you are trying to achieve?
Jon
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype “eskdale”
On 16 February 2017 at 13:47, Tom OWEN
towen999@msn.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Art,
Thanks for the info, but I do not think that is the desired solution. It appears that Set Personal Handicap will always be the handicap that is used. Attached is my example. I currently
use aliases to create the Overall Fleet which are the aliased competitors from the Spinnaker and Non-Spinnaker Fleets. We then use Set Personal Handicap tool to assign the handicap for the non-spinnaker boats (10% over their base handicap) in the Overall
Fleet. Then when we select the Wind Indexed rating for the race (*e.g., Random for SPLP-2), we get the proper rating for the Spinnaker and Non-Spinnaker Fleets, but get the assigned Personal Handicap for Non-Spinnaker start in the Overall fleet. What we really
want for the Non-Spinnaker start in the Overall Fleet is the effective wind indexed handicap adjusted by the 10% as set by the set Personal Handicap formula.
Thanks,
Tom
From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 7:17 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Tom,
We’ve done what I think you want using aliases. Assume you want to score
each boat twice, once with the normal ratings (which would be
wind-indexed by type) and a second time with the personal skipper handicaps.
If this is what you want then I’d use aliases. You could simply have two
Sailwave files and input the finishes twice but aliases work pretty well
and everything can be done in a single file.
With aliases you can create a second version of each competitor. The 2nd
version inherits the finishing time and status (i.e., scoring codes) of
the original competitor but everything else can change - it can be in a
different class or have a different rating. So, you’d enter your
finishing times once for the original competitor and the same time would
automatically be assigned to the alias competitor (the so-called
“recorded result” for the alias competitor cannot be changed and if you
click on the result for an alias competitor it tells you that any edits
won’t be saved - you need to edit the original competitor).
There are some tools for automatically making alias competitors. Under
“Setup|User interface” enable “Competitor aliasing” to make the tools
visible. Under “Edit|New Competitor Aliasing” you can select the
competitors you want to create aliases for (before doing that sort the
boats in an order that makes it easy to select the competitors you want
to create aliases for). You can then go and edit the new alias
competitors. You can’t edit the results for the alias competitors,
meaning finishing times and scoring codes, since those are inherited
from the original competitor, but you can change ratings. We’ve
generated SHs (skipper handicaps) separately and then entered them in
the alias competitors the morning of the race.
We’ve indicated aliased class by adding “SH” or “Skipper Handicap” to
the name. The Brits tend to use “PH” for skipper or golf handicapping
but that is too close to “PHRF” in our opinion so we stay away from that.
You can use the “Set competitor field” under “Tools” to assign
competitors to a class - each alias competitor is assigned an alias code
starting with the “@” symbol, such as “@197” so you can use the number
part of the code to decide which competitors to select for change to a
new class. It takes a bit of work to set it up the first time but once
you’ve got all the competitors (original and alias) assigned to the
classes you want it works pretty seamlessly. The Sail Number Wizard only
lists aliased boats once as the original boat so entering finishing
times manually is no harder than normal.
I suggest rescoring a race from last year with aliases and think you’ll
find that once you’ve figured out the setup (which wasn’t very intuitive
for us) it will all seem fairly straight-forward.
We’ve never used the NHC or spreadsheet stuff here and other than the
automation it presumably has one significant advantage - that it can
show the new handicap ratings that will be used for the next race. If I
understand correctly that cannot be shown on the race results but only
on the series results but that is based on what has been described in
the User Group and might be wrong. When we’ve used skipper or golf
handicaps locally we’ve usually used a custom scoring program that
displays the calculated new rating right next to the used rating for
each race (in other words, in the race results for each race rather than
the series results). We’ve using aliasing mostly for regrouping
competitors for scoring purposes but we’ve tested it and it works just
as well for using different ratings to double-score races, which is
HIGHLY recommended any time you use skipper or golf handicaps.
Art
On 2/15/2017 8:57 AM, Tom OWEN
towen999@msn.com [sailwave] wrote:
PHRF of the Chesapeake is going to a similar system with
Windward/Leeward and Random/Circular leg ratings. I have set up a
test case to prepare for the new ratings using Wind Indexed Ratings,
and it appears to work unless that is aa assign personal handicap
rule to adjust the handicap (e.g., Golf or our Overall Fleet Time per
Mile where I use assign personal handicaps to give the non-spinnakers
additional percentage handicap over their base handicap). Is there a
way to have personal handicap adjustments and wind indexed ratings
for each race in the series without using a custom spreadsheet and
RYA HNC? If not, has anyone created a custom spreadsheet to do this
type of rating adjustment for each race?
Thanks, Tom Owen Dahlgren Yacht Club
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 9:16 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Multiple handicaps in same series
Our local PHRF organization issues 3 types of rating - Buoy
(windward/leeward), Random Leg and Off Wind Course. When a series of
races uses two or more of the types we use the wind-indexed method to
quickly change between rating types. We’ve also used it for ORR ratings,
which actually are indexed to the wind strength. It takes a little
effort to figure out how to use them and teach the scorers but it makes
things pretty simple once all the scorers are up to speed.
Art
On 2/13/2017 4:14 PM, Jon Eskdale
jon@sailwave.commailto:jon@sailwave.com [sailwave] wrote:
Hi - Ratings can be changed on a race by race basis for each boat
individually if required
If you select the appropriate results cell and right click and select edit
result you should get something similar to this.
[image: Inline images 1]
Here you can enter the rating to be used for this race and the tick box
below allows the new rating to be used until it is changed again.
Another possibility you could consider is the wind index ratings - this
might be a quicker way of doing what you want (depends upon you situation).
But with this you can change the ratings for classes on a race by race
basis.
As for topic 2 you would have to use the method of adjusting each boat as
required as described above, although if you wanted to, you could possibly
use the NHC setting and use a custom template and it could automate the
whole process.
Jon
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype “eskdale”
On 13 February 2017 at 20:18,
cs_winn@yahoo.co.ukmailto:cs_winn@yahoo.co.uk [sailwave] <
sailwave@yahoogroups.commailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I sail PHRF mixed fleet in our area. We use ToT for Wednesday around the
can races and ToD for long distance or offsore races. Currently, it
appears that a boat can only have one PHRF handicap rating per series btu
I’m wondering if it would be possible to assign a boat a rating on a race
by race basis within the same series?
Two examples:
-
Two weekends per year we do around the can races on the Saturday and a
longer distance rating on the Sunday. Several boats in our fleet have a
mixed PHRF rating dependng on whether the race is windward/leeward or
offshore. I set up the entire weekend as a single series file in Sailwave
since the total of all races is what counts; but because I can’t change a
boats rating mid series, I’m required to run the Sunday race separately
then manually add it up afterwards.
-
Our fleet is considering trying a “golf handicap” system whereby each
week, the boat that finishes first in their fleet gets a three second
penalty to their PHRF rating the following week, while the boat that
finished last will get a three second bonus. This will continue throughout
the entire season (21 races all in one series) meaning that every week, 6
boats will have a different rating than the week before (2 boats per fleet
x 3 fleets in out club).
So, is there a way of adjusting PHRF ratings on a race by race basis
without it screwing up the results of all the previously sailed races?
Thanks.
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
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www.avast.com
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www.avast.com
Jon Eskdale
03333 443377
07530 112233
Thanks very much Jon this worked perfectly by following your instructions to adjust boat ratings on an individual race basis.
Is there a way of automating the process using PHRF ToT such that, for example, the boat that came first in a face gets a 3 second PHRF penalty in the next race, while the boat that came last gets a 3 second bonus, while all other boats keep the same rating?
I don’t think there is a way of automating at this moment without a small modification to Sailwave so that it could then pass the fleet to the swhelper.
Then with a custom template for Excel you could do almost anything.
Jon
···
On 23 February 2017 at 14:55, cs_winn@yahoo.co.uk [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Thanks very much Jon this worked perfectly by following your instructions to adjust boat ratings on an individual race basis.
Is there a way of automating the process using PHRF ToT such that, for example, the boat that came first in a face gets a 3 second PHRF penalty in the next race, while the boat that came last gets a 3 second bonus, while all other boats keep the same rating?
Jon Eskdale
07530 112233
Skype “eskdale”