Is there anything in the NoR/Sis including words along the lines of "when a
boat receives multiple penalties in a race, points penalties are applied
first followed by the sum of percentage penalties". It seems to that is not
unreasonable and it would save the luckless results person having to do
tricky sums.
It would be nice if the sport's governing body stated what to do!
It should not make and difference.
In rule 44 % penalties are governed by the number of boats entered which does not change.
The application of points penalties before or after makes no change.
If you are not following the RRS and have some other % penalty then I agree with what you say, but as you have created the problem you should put in the answer.
Mike Butterfield IRO
From: mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 12:46 PM
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Multiple Scoring Penalties
Is there anything in the NoR/Sis including words along the lines of “when a
boat receives multiple penalties in a race, points penalties are applied
first followed by the sum of percentage penalties”. It seems to that is not
unreasonable and it would save the luckless results person having to do
tricky sums.
It would be nice if the sport’s governing body stated what to do!
The RRS DO actually say specifically what to do, at least with respect
to multiple percentage penalties under rule 30.2 [ZFP]. "If she is
similarly identified during a subsequent attempt to start the same race,
she shall receive an additional 20% Scoring Penalty." I think that
pretty much means that she gets two 20% penalties, not one 40% penalty
(if the rules wanted the latter, the wording would be something like
"her penalty shall be increased accordingly"). I believe we can imply
that the 30.2 states a general concept that should apply to all
percentage penalties, not just those under rule 30.2. [That sentence was
added in 2009 to make it clear how to handle multiple percentage penalties.]
Just to restate the obvious, it does make a difference whether we apply
two 20% scoring penalties or one 40% scoring penalties due to the
rounding. In an 8-boat fleet, two 20% would be 2 places twice or 4
places (0.2 x 8 = 1.6 rounds to 2) while one 40% would be 3 places (0.4
x 8 = 3.2 rounds to 3).
As someone else pointed out, if you had two differently sized percentage
penalties the order of applying them is not relevant because each
penalty is based on a percentage of the number of entries, which doesn't
change, and not on the points the boat had before applying the penalties.
For the record, a "percentage penalty" is in fact a "points penalty" or
"places penalty" since in 44.3(c) the penalty is described as "the score
[meaning points] she would have received without that penalty, made
worse by the number of places ..." So, although we commonly think of the
44.3(c) Scoring Penalty as an "additional points" penalty, in fact it is
a penalty to assign the number of points for a specific place. Under the
Low Point System, points and place are generally the same so the
additional points are equal to the rounded percentage of additional
places. It is easy. However, under one of the fancy high-point systems
you would first have to figure out what place to assign and then what
points that place should get (and, of course, there would be two boats
in that place with that number of points).
Art
On 6/27/2014 4:46 AM, 'Richard Creer' richard@radixsoftware.co.uk [sailwave] wrote:
Is there anything in the NoR/Sis including words along the lines of "when a
boat receives multiple penalties in a race, points penalties are applied
first followed by the sum of percentage penalties". It seems to that is not
unreasonable and it would save the luckless results person having to do
tricky sums.It would be nice if the sport's governing body stated what to do!
The SIs for the event in question apply penalties for failing to check out and in - 15% for a first offence and 30% thereafter. I didn’t write the SIs, I simply have the job of implementing them in Sailwave!
Elsewhere multiple penalties are no doubt rarities but in this scenario they become more likely. I guess I’ll deal with them by calculating the penalty points on paper and applying them as a negative RDG.
I bow to your superior knowledge but, if the RRS want to make it clear that multiple percentage penalties are to be applied in series, there must be better ways of so doing than in the very specific context of ZFP. I can see many happy hours in the protest committee room arguing the toss on that one.
An easy way out for the PC is to make the decision, then leave it up to the scorer to sort it out. Then hopefully the guy who wrote the SI's can say how it should be done.
regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield South Africa
On 2014/06/30 17:39, richard@radixsoftware.co.uk [sailwave] wrote:
I bow to your superior knowledge but, if the RRS want to make it clear that multiple percentage penalties are to be applied in series, there must be better ways of so doing than in the very specific context of ZFP. I can see many happy hours in the protest committee room arguing the toss on that one.
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