Cant use NHC as out fleets are too small and it does not work right. I played with it quite a bit in another thread with Art and while it changes ratings it does not punish the boats that dominate all the time, because the fleet is small and there are no tweeners.
So we are going to have to stick with what we do.
But Can it be automated?
Should it be done with a spread sheet and have SW read the sheet for the next race rating? I have no idea how to have SW read a spreadsheet for next race rating.
I need to write an expression what will set the next races rating for the top 2 boats and the bottom 2 boats. If there are only 2 or 3 boats then it will be just the First and last boats.
I looked at the expressions page in the Resources and am not sure I can do this.
Is there a list of SW variables that can be used? I see someone asked this in the past but no one answered.
As I have mentioned in other threads, with out an automated system, no new volunteers will be stepping up when I step out.
Importing results would leave out the finish and elapsed times from the publication, wouldn’t it? Everybody loves to see how close or far back they were.
Seems like defeating the purpose of having a scoring system. I feel like smaller areas are left out.
I hope someone has some examples of scoring expressions that can change the next race rating.
Hi Dave T. Not sure I’m fully understandng your problem. There is a facility within Sailwave to configure the NHC adjustment calculator to do whatever you want it to do and then to run the results and handicap adjustments automatically. There is a thread on this user group titled ‘Correcting error in NHC program within Sailwave’ which may help you. We use a modified NHC calculator which not ony corrects a glitch in the standard NHC calculator but also resets the upper and lower ‘buffers’. We could also have adjusted how aggressively the handicaps are adjusted but decided not to do so in our case. If relevant and you need more help please get in touch. Cheers
I also thought that the “external NHC” mode could handle this. But, I’ve
downloaded and played around with it and unfortunately it cannot.
Dave is using standard PHRF ratings, which are ToD (Time on Distance;
CT=ET-[Dist*PHRF]) and need the course distance to calculate. The NHC
Excel spreadsheet can important a bunch of fields from Sailwave but not
course distance or corrected time (which could be used with elapsed time
and rating to calculate the course distance).
In other words, the NHC external spreadsheet only works with TCF ratings
and so Dave cannot use it with standard PHRF ratings.
It does take some for ratings to adjust; but they do. After about 10-15 races the winners are the boats that make fewer mistakes (more consistent). Isn’t that the whole point?
Kirk, we are a small area with a dwindling fleet. We used to get 20 boats out. Now we are lucky to get 6, Sailing used to be fun but like most areas there is always someone who spends too much on being the big fish in a very small pond. As someone who has raced his whole adult life and made, actually made sails for 11 years before computers, I fully understand sailboat racing. a highlight of my sailing was making the Prince of Wales finals in 79 at the age of 21.
Our summer series (22 races) is supposed to be fun. It isn’t when one boat wants it to be an Olympic championship.
The NHC external spreadsheet system should allow you to do anything you like with the ratings it is not tied to TCF although as NHC is written around TCF if you want to use the same calculations you would have to effectively convert the rating from one and back again but this should be possible
Sailwave will load the ratings from Sailwave into the spreadsheet and read them back for the next race.
So it should be possible to write a template that uses PHRF ratings - You may need to include the constants in the spreadsheet. If there is something missing let me know and I’ll try and create a version that solves this.
We too have this problem. Usually after a few years of winning everything in sight they get bored and do something else. But it still is hard on the rest of the boats
I might be missing something. The normal way to adjust ratings is to key
it the corrected results. While I get the start time and elapsed time
for each boat for a race I don’t have the course distance. So in the
scoring formula CT=ET-[Dist.*PHRF] I am missing the distance. That means
I cannot calculate the corrected results (and that isn’t one of the
fields that can be imported).
So, what is missing is the ability to pull in the course distance from
the Sailwave file. Like the starting time it will be the same for each
boat in a race but will be different for the boats in each class.
Allowing the import of course distance would fix that. So far as I am
aware all scoring systems are either Time on Time, Time on Distance or
some combination of the two. That means that in addition to rating, the
two essentials for all ratings systems would be elapsed time (for both
ToT and ToD) and course distance (for ToD).
Jon, I thought it might be as easy as a simple as writing an If Else or case statement, without all the math.
I looked at some of the equations in the, SWNHC4-NHC2013.xls and other SWNHC.xls files and that stuff is way over my head. I written code for database work that had to print labels for shipping and billing but nothing like this math.
This would be for Excel, a simple IF then statement in code would look a bit different.
If (Points = 1, Next Rating = Rating - 6, Next Rating = Rating)
If (Points = 2, Next Rating = Rating - 3, Next Rating = Rating)
Testing for the last and second from last would be a different test.
If (Points = Finishers, Next Rating = Rating + 6, Next Rating = Rating)
If (Points = Finishers - 1, Next Rating = Rating + 3, Next Rating = Rating)
And everyone in between gets to stay the same.
Not knowing all the Sailwave constants makes it tough to figure it out.
And then does this go in Spread sheet or a txt file?
I think there are a lot of areas that are looking for something simple for the Summer Supposed to be fun racing series
The algorithm for NHC is quite complicated as you have seen from the calculations in the Spreadsheet.
And it is more daunting when you look at it first but I did do it in stages.
However, if you want to create your own custom one you can delete all the calculations for the NHC and just put in the calculations you want
That would be great.
I’ve just created this simple Demo template which you can download from here https://www.dropbox.com/s/ewe1gcxicl7jgsx/SWDemo.xls?dl=1
Place this in the Template folder which by default will be C:\Users\Public\Documents\Sailwave\Templates
Now let’s use the demo program included with Sailwave that can be found (by default) at C:\Users\Public\Documents\Sailwave\Examples\NHC2014.blw
If we change this to use the template that we have just downloaded
Here it has loaded the boats and the elapsed times and the ratings
For this demo, the Next Race handicap is programmed within Excel to simply be the current rating + 0.001 so you can see the 0.915 has become 0.916
You can create your own rules by editing the SWDemo.xls spreadsheet - I’ve left 3 empty columns M,N and O to perform calculations
If you click Next on the Sailwave Helper the ratings that are displayed in the Next Race Handicap will be fed back into Sailwave Race 2 and Race 2 will be loaded and displayed in Excel
If you click Update All then it will automatically step through all the races.
The Config sheet controls where the data goes and is collected from
Let me know if you need anything else.
Art I will look soon at creating a new version of SWHelper that handles the Race Distance for you.
Hey guys, thought I would give you an update.
After 8 years of doing the scoring and using sailwave/regatta network, our club has decided to move to the Club Spot system. I have not even been invited to look it over. I am told however, that their scoring system allows for you to specify a + or - in rating based on the place boats get in races. This is what they want so I hope it works for them.
I have enjoyed using Sailwave and the level of support you guys give. I doubt I will be doing much more here so once again…THANK YOU ALL.
Now if I can just find someone to buy my Zap 26, turnkey ready. I am just about going to have to give it away.
Hi Dave,
We will miss you but I suspect they will come back with their head in their hands begging you to do it again. Seems very short-sighted of them to not get your approval - I’ve not heard of anyone successfully using clubspot for sailing scoring - it seems to be primarily a club management package rather than a scoring and publishing system for which you will have to pay them many Euros it seems
I am told however, that their scoring system allows for you to specify a + or - in rating based on the place boats get in races
Sailwave can adjust the ratings on a race basis on any rules that you wish to define - I produced a demo of this for you.
Are you giving up on Sailing or just changing your boat?
Thanks Jon, I’m 65 in few days and 25 years as a Paraplegic have taken a toll. It’s too tough to get around on a lively 26 ft boat. I still have my land sailing. I have 2 Blokarts and it is far more fun rounding the leeward mark at 40 knots rather than the usual 6 knts on a boat. Back in 2016, I took 2nd in the North Americans and 3rd at the Worlds held back-2-back at Ivanpah. Of course, we are divided into weight classes. I am a light weight.
One of the issues in our area is the small fleets. The NHC scoring just went wonky. I tried rescoring our summer series and it just did not work well.
The people in charge will have to work it out. If they ask me, I will take a look at it. When I sell, I will rethink if membership at the YC is worth it.
If you guys know anyone who is looking for a turnkey 26’ boat that is fast, this boat in a breeze is fun, let me know. Anyone interested can view my YouTube channel. https://www.youtube.com/@davidtrude9238/videos
