New to sailwave

Imported from Yahoo
1

Hi,

i am trying to determine if Sailwave will cater for the results at my club. We run Laser races for both full rigs and radials, all boats compete in all races bar the club championship which splits the fleets up.

Icant tell if Sailwave will cater for what is a subset of results, ie we have a season pointscore and then during that, we also have either trophy races or club championship races.

Can Sailwave manage this format? i assume we can configure it to show scratch results (club championships) and handicap results (trophy races).

Finally, we operate a 3, 2, 1 handicap system - first place on handicap has 3 mins added to thier time, 2nd place - 2mins and 3rd , 1 minute. The max handicap is 10 minutes. How does Sailwave cater for this system?

thanks in advance

Tony

Number of race days

Number of races

Drops

Fleet

Season scratch results

24

48

8

Full rig & Radial

Season handicap results

24

48

8

Full rig & Radial

Club championship -

8

16

4

Separate Full rig and Radial series

4 x Trophy series

4

8

0

Full rig & Radial

2

Hi Tony,

As no one else has answered your question I'll see what I can do but there may be some better replies to come. Sailwave is incredibly flexible and can do most things - Colin has put an incredible amount of work into it over the years.

It can certainly handle Scratch and Handicap at the same time by using aliases. You effectively have 1 competitor and an alias. The alias is scored with Handicap results. But you only enter results for each race once and Sailwave uses it for both the main and alias competitor. I assume that is one of the questions that you were asking.

You can choose to score all the competitors together or it can score by fleet (or many other options)

Could you explain your 3,2,1 handicap system a bit more please its not something I'm familiar with.
How often do you adjust the handicap? After each event or after each race?

Jon

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" <tonypowell55@...> wrote:

Hi,

i am trying to determine if Sailwave will cater for the results at my
club. We run Laser races for both full rigs and radials, all boats
compete in all races bar the club championship which splits the fleets
up.

Icant tell if Sailwave will cater for what is a subset of results, ie we
have a season pointscore and then during that, we also have either
trophy races or club championship races.

Can Sailwave manage this format? i assume we can configure it to show
scratch results (club championships) and handicap results (trophy
races).

Finally, we operate a 3, 2, 1 handicap system - first place on handicap
has 3 mins added to thier time, 2nd place - 2mins and 3rd , 1 minute.
The max handicap is 10 minutes. How does Sailwave cater for this system?

thanks in advance

Tony

Number of race days

Number of races

Drops

Fleet

Season scratch results

24

48

8

Full rig & Radial

Season handicap results

24

48

8

Full rig & Radial

Club championship -

8

16

4

Separate Full rig and Radial series

4 x Trophy series

4

8

0

Full rig & Radial

3

Hi Tony,

I am yet to find a sailboat race for which I cannot produce results. Some races take a little more imagination than others, but Sailwave is very flexible and can score almost any series.

The following link is for our Lido 14 twilight series, 78 races with over 108 different competitors. The results overall, A’s, B’s, Junior’s and Women’s were all produced from a single Sailwave file using aliases, merging and a few other tricks. http://www.abyc.org/event.cfm?id=376

Another example which was done using Aliases is Long Beach Race Week. The Fast 50, IRC and TP52 results were all generated from a single result using Aliases. http://www.lbrw.org/2010_Results/2010_LBRW_Results_Alpha.html

It does take a while to figure out how to get what you want, but the group is pretty responsive and will help you figure it out. Review the Sailwave User Guide available from http://www.abyc.org/upload/Sailwave_ABYC_User_Guide.pdf

Mark Townsend
Phone: 562-433-4366

Cell: 562-533-5909
Email: s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com

···

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of JON
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 3:49 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: New to sailwave

Hi Tony,

As no one else has answered your question I’ll see what I can do but there may be some better replies to come. Sailwave is incredibly flexible and can do most things - Colin has put an incredible amount of work into it over the years.

It can certainly handle Scratch and Handicap at the same time by using aliases. You effectively have 1 competitor and an alias. The alias is scored with Handicap results. But you only enter results for each race once and Sailwave uses it for both the main and alias competitor. I assume that is one of the questions that you were asking.

You can choose to score all the competitors together or it can score by fleet (or many other options)

Could you explain your 3,2,1 handicap system a bit more please its not something I’m familiar with.
How often do you adjust the handicap? After each event or after each race?

Jon

— In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, “Tony” <tonypowell55@…> wrote:

Hi,

i am trying to determine if Sailwave will cater for the results at my
club. We run Laser races for both full rigs and radials, all boats
compete in all races bar the club championship which splits the fleets
up.

Icant tell if Sailwave will cater for what is a subset of results, ie we
have a season pointscore and then during that, we also have either
trophy races or club championship races.

Can Sailwave manage this format? i assume we can configure it to show
scratch results (club championships) and handicap results (trophy
races).

Finally, we operate a 3, 2, 1 handicap system - first place on handicap
has 3 mins added to thier time, 2nd place - 2mins and 3rd , 1 minute.
The max handicap is 10 minutes. How does Sailwave cater for this system?

thanks in advance

Tony

Number of race days

Number of races

Drops

Fleet

Season scratch results

24

48

8

Full rig & Radial

Season handicap results

24

48

8

Full rig & Radial

Club championship -

8

16

4

Separate Full rig and Radial series

4 x Trophy series

4

8

0

Full rig & Radial

4

Thank you Jon.

Our handicap system is fairly simple. First place on handicap has 3 minuntes taken off thier handicap for the next race, 2nd place - 2 minutes and 3rd has one minute. If a scratch boat (on zero minutes) wins, all other boats have 3 minutes added to thier handicap.

The range for handicaps is 0 to 10 minutes. our races are 45 minutes so that is plenty.

The handicap is updated after every race, so if i was on 3 minutes and managed to win the race on time, my handicap for the next race would be 0 minutes.

i assume sailwave can handle this sort of system, like you say, it takes some work at the outset. To date we have been using a fairly large spreadsheet but it is time to upgrade and use something a little more robust.

I've downloaded the user guide and am going through that now.

thanks for your assistance

Tony

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "JON" <jon@...> wrote:

Hi Tony,

As no one else has answered your question I'll see what I can do but there may be some better replies to come. Sailwave is incredibly flexible and can do most things - Colin has put an incredible amount of work into it over the years.

It can certainly handle Scratch and Handicap at the same time by using aliases. You effectively have 1 competitor and an alias. The alias is scored with Handicap results. But you only enter results for each race once and Sailwave uses it for both the main and alias competitor. I assume that is one of the questions that you were asking.

You can choose to score all the competitors together or it can score by fleet (or many other options)

Could you explain your 3,2,1 handicap system a bit more please its not something I'm familiar with.
How often do you adjust the handicap? After each event or after each race?

Jon

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" <tonypowell55@> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> i am trying to determine if Sailwave will cater for the results at my
> club. We run Laser races for both full rigs and radials, all boats
> compete in all races bar the club championship which splits the fleets
> up.
>
> Icant tell if Sailwave will cater for what is a subset of results, ie we
> have a season pointscore and then during that, we also have either
> trophy races or club championship races.
>
> Can Sailwave manage this format? i assume we can configure it to show
> scratch results (club championships) and handicap results (trophy
> races).
>
> Finally, we operate a 3, 2, 1 handicap system - first place on handicap
> has 3 mins added to thier time, 2nd place - 2mins and 3rd , 1 minute.
> The max handicap is 10 minutes. How does Sailwave cater for this system?
>
> thanks in advance
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
> Number of race days
>
> Number of races
>
> Drops
>
> Fleet
>
> Season scratch results
>
> 24
>
> 48
>
> 8
>
> Full rig & Radial
>
> Season handicap results
>
> 24
>
> 48
>
> 8
>
> Full rig & Radial
>
> Club championship -
>
> 8
>
> 16
>
> 4
>
> Separate Full rig and Radial series
>
> 4 x Trophy series
>
> 4
>
> 8
>
> 0
>
> Full rig & Radial
>

5

Hi Tony,

Sailwave can certainly handle a different Handicap for each race. It would be a relatively simple job to adjust 3 handicaps manually as the calculation is simple. I don't know of anyway of automating the handicap calculation you describe using Sailwave alone. You could if you want to automate it use the Program I have been developing to calculate and modify the Handicaps. Details are at

https://sites.google.com/site/eskdalesite/home/swph

Jon

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" <tonypowell55@...> wrote:

Thank you Jon.

Our handicap system is fairly simple. First place on handicap has 3 minuntes taken off thier handicap for the next race, 2nd place - 2 minutes and 3rd has one minute. If a scratch boat (on zero minutes) wins, all other boats have 3 minutes added to thier handicap.

The range for handicaps is 0 to 10 minutes. our races are 45 minutes so that is plenty.

The handicap is updated after every race, so if i was on 3 minutes and managed to win the race on time, my handicap for the next race would be 0 minutes.

i assume sailwave can handle this sort of system, like you say, it takes some work at the outset. To date we have been using a fairly large spreadsheet but it is time to upgrade and use something a little more robust.

I've downloaded the user guide and am going through that now.

thanks for your assistance

Tony

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "JON" <jon@> wrote:
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> As no one else has answered your question I'll see what I can do but there may be some better replies to come. Sailwave is incredibly flexible and can do most things - Colin has put an incredible amount of work into it over the years.
>
> It can certainly handle Scratch and Handicap at the same time by using aliases. You effectively have 1 competitor and an alias. The alias is scored with Handicap results. But you only enter results for each race once and Sailwave uses it for both the main and alias competitor. I assume that is one of the questions that you were asking.
>
> You can choose to score all the competitors together or it can score by fleet (or many other options)
>
> Could you explain your 3,2,1 handicap system a bit more please its not something I'm familiar with.
> How often do you adjust the handicap? After each event or after each race?
>
> Jon
>
> --- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" <tonypowell55@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > i am trying to determine if Sailwave will cater for the results at my
> > club. We run Laser races for both full rigs and radials, all boats
> > compete in all races bar the club championship which splits the fleets
> > up.
> >
> > Icant tell if Sailwave will cater for what is a subset of results, ie we
> > have a season pointscore and then during that, we also have either
> > trophy races or club championship races.
> >
> > Can Sailwave manage this format? i assume we can configure it to show
> > scratch results (club championships) and handicap results (trophy
> > races).
> >
> > Finally, we operate a 3, 2, 1 handicap system - first place on handicap
> > has 3 mins added to thier time, 2nd place - 2mins and 3rd , 1 minute.
> > The max handicap is 10 minutes. How does Sailwave cater for this system?
> >
> > thanks in advance
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Number of race days
> >
> > Number of races
> >
> > Drops
> >
> > Fleet
> >
> > Season scratch results
> >
> > 24
> >
> > 48
> >
> > 8
> >
> > Full rig & Radial
> >
> > Season handicap results
> >
> > 24
> >
> > 48
> >
> > 8
> >
> > Full rig & Radial
> >
> > Club championship -
> >
> > 8
> >
> > 16
> >
> > 4
> >
> > Separate Full rig and Radial series
> >
> > 4 x Trophy series
> >
> > 4
> >
> > 8
> >
> > 0
> >
> > Full rig & Radial
> >
>

6

Mark,

About three years ago we were looking at new scoring programs for my club. At the time, no one could figure out a way to score out Wed. night summer series the way we want using Sailwave so we went with another program. That hasn't been a success so we are once again looking for a new program. I've used Sailwave for a few local regattas and it could clearly handle our regattas. But, we have this Wed. night summer series that is a series longer than a regatta and Sailwave APPARENTLY cannot handle that. If you can think of a way that could be handled I'd really appreciate it.

CRITERIA

1. Custom high-point scoring system that Sailwave can handle (I've used it to score regattas and KNOW that it works just fine). DNF, DSQ, etc. get 1 point fixed. Points are "normalized" so the middle boat in every fleet gets the same points (5.5) regardless of size.

2. Each race is a separate event with a separate entry. If you don't enter you aren't in the results. [When we do series scoring boats that didn't enter will be assigned 0 points for the race.]

3. Inside each fleet, standard scoring will apply for doing series results. But, we also generate "Division" results, which includes several fleets. Because our custom high-point system "normalizes" results it is fair (or at least relatively fair) to compare points among fleets. However, if a fleet is below a certain threshold (too small) for a race we assign the boats in that fleet 1 point (same as DNF) for that race.

4. We do Personal Handicaps for some of the fleets but I now think that can probably be handled just fine by Jon Eskdale's add-on for Excel.

When I last checked this out, our high-point formula used "entrants" and Sailwave just couldn't handle that each race would have a different number of entrants. Since then, we've change to using "starters" in our formula so there is a chance Sailwave might be able to handle it.

THE PROBLEMS

A. When you press the score button it rescores EVERY race. So, when a new boat enters race #2 the results of race #1 now show a boat that didn't enter and shouldn't be scored as racing in that race. AND, when a boat from race #1 doesn't enter in race #2 then it is shown as having raced in race #2 when it shouldn't be scored in that race at all.

B. We want different scores when scoring the Fleet series results and the Division series results.

I suppose we could solve problem B by running two versions of the scoring program at the same time, one to generate Fleet scores and another to generate Division scores. Our current scoring program (highly customized by us) simply generates and keeps track of two scores at the same time.

Problem A is much tougher. I tried to "import" results from a race blw file into a series blw file. If we could import points that would work fine. But, the import function only allows the import of finish times and when you hit the rescore button for the series blw all the points are changed.

We are thinking of changing to Sailwave for our regattas and then using a custom program for our Wed. night summer series. However, pretty much everyone would prefer to use the same scoring program both for regatta and for series longer than a regatta.

Any advice GREATLY appreciated.

Art

PS - Also, when I checked out Sailwave three years ago we didn't particularly like that we couldn't change the text on the html printout but I saw Colin posted that the text that prints can be modified using Javascript so I assume that hurdle can be overcome now.

···

On 6/18/2012 5:41 PM, S Mark Townsend wrote:

Hi Tony,

I am yet to find a sailboat race for which I cannot produce results. Some
races take a little more imagination than others, but Sailwave is very
flexible and can score almost any series.

The following link is for our Lido 14 twilight series, 78 races with over
108 different competitors. The results overall, A's, B's, Junior's and
Women's were all produced from a single Sailwave file using aliases, merging
and a few other tricks. http://www.abyc.org/event.cfm?id=376

Another example which was done using Aliases is Long Beach Race Week. The
Fast 50, IRC and TP52 results were all generated from a single result using
Aliases. http://www.lbrw.org/2010_Results/2010_LBRW_Results_Alpha.html

It does take a while to figure out how to get what you want, but the group
is pretty responsive and will help you figure it out. Review the Sailwave
User Guide available from
http://www.abyc.org/upload/Sailwave_ABYC_User_Guide.pdf

Mark Townsend
Phone: 562-433-4366

Cell: 562-533-5909
Email:<mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com> s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of JON
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 3:49 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: New to sailwave

Hi Tony,

As no one else has answered your question I'll see what I can do but there
may be some better replies to come. Sailwave is incredibly flexible and can
do most things - Colin has put an incredible amount of work into it over the
years.

It can certainly handle Scratch and Handicap at the same time by using
aliases. You effectively have 1 competitor and an alias. The alias is scored
with Handicap results. But you only enter results for each race once and
Sailwave uses it for both the main and alias competitor. I assume that is
one of the questions that you were asking.

You can choose to score all the competitors together or it can score by
fleet (or many other options)

Could you explain your 3,2,1 handicap system a bit more please its not
something I'm familiar with.
How often do you adjust the handicap? After each event or after each race?

Jon

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com<mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com> , "Tony"
<tonypowell55@...> wrote:

Hi,

i am trying to determine if Sailwave will cater for the results at my
club. We run Laser races for both full rigs and radials, all boats
compete in all races bar the club championship which splits the fleets
up.

Icant tell if Sailwave will cater for what is a subset of results, ie we
have a season pointscore and then during that, we also have either
trophy races or club championship races.

Can Sailwave manage this format? i assume we can configure it to show
scratch results (club championships) and handicap results (trophy
races).

Finally, we operate a 3, 2, 1 handicap system - first place on handicap
has 3 mins added to thier time, 2nd place - 2mins and 3rd , 1 minute.
The max handicap is 10 minutes. How does Sailwave cater for this system?

thanks in advance

Tony

Number of race days

Number of races

Drops

Fleet

Season scratch results

24

48

8

Full rig& Radial

Season handicap results

24

48

8

Full rig& Radial

Club championship -

8

16

4

Separate Full rig and Radial series

4 x Trophy series

4

8

0

Full rig& Radial

7

been using sailwave for 5 years now and it can accomplish what you want. set up a new wed night summer series file ( you can make a copy of the wed night regatta) then append the scores of the weekly regatta into the series file. so now each week will be scored as one in the series file.

JT

···

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Art Engel
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:40 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: New to sailwave

Mark,

About three years ago we were looking at new scoring programs for my
club. At the time, no one could figure out a way to score out Wed. night
summer series the way we want using Sailwave so we went with another
program. That hasn’t been a success so we are once again looking for a
new program. I’ve used Sailwave for a few local regattas and it could
clearly handle our regattas. But, we have this Wed. night summer series
that is a series longer than a regatta and Sailwave APPARENTLY cannot
handle that. If you can think of a way that could be handled I’d really
appreciate it.

CRITERIA

  1. Custom high-point scoring system that Sailwave can handle (I’ve used
    it to score regattas and KNOW that it works just fine). DNF, DSQ, etc.
    get 1 point fixed. Points are “normalized” so the middle boat in every
    fleet gets the same points (5.5) regardless of size.

  2. Each race is a separate event with a separate entry. If you don’t
    enter you aren’t in the results. [When we do series scoring boats that
    didn’t enter will be assigned 0 points for the race.]

  3. Inside each fleet, standard scoring will apply for doing series
    results. But, we also generate “Division” results, which includes
    several fleets. Because our custom high-point system “normalizes”
    results it is fair (or at least relatively fair) to compare points among
    fleets. However, if a fleet is below a certain threshold (too small) for
    a race we assign the boats in that fleet 1 point (same as DNF) for that
    race.

  4. We do Personal Handicaps for some of the fleets but I now think that
    can probably be handled just fine by Jon Eskdale’s add-on for Excel.

When I last checked this out, our high-point formula used “entrants” and
Sailwave just couldn’t handle that each race would have a different
number of entrants. Since then, we’ve change to using “starters” in our
formula so there is a chance Sailwave might be able to handle it.

THE PROBLEMS

A. When you press the score button it rescores EVERY race. So, when a
new boat enters race #2 the results of race #1 now show a boat that
didn’t enter and shouldn’t be scored as racing in that race. AND, when a
boat from race #1 doesn’t enter in race #2 then it is shown as having
raced in race #2 when it shouldn’t be scored in that race at all.

B. We want different scores when scoring the Fleet series results and
the Division series results.

I suppose we could solve problem B by running two versions of the
scoring program at the same time, one to generate Fleet scores and
another to generate Division scores. Our current scoring program (highly
customized by us) simply generates and keeps track of two scores at the
same time.

Problem A is much tougher. I tried to “import” results from a race blw
file into a series blw file. If we could import points that would work
fine. But, the import function only allows the import of finish times
and when you hit the rescore button for the series blw all the points
are changed.

We are thinking of changing to Sailwave for our regattas and then using
a custom program for our Wed. night summer series. However, pretty much
everyone would prefer to use the same scoring program both for regatta
and for series longer than a regatta.

Any advice GREATLY appreciated.

Art

PS - Also, when I checked out Sailwave three years ago we didn’t
particularly like that we couldn’t change the text on the html printout
but I saw Colin posted that the text that prints can be modified using
Javascript so I assume that hurdle can be overcome now.

On 6/18/2012 5:41 PM, S Mark Townsend wrote:

Hi Tony,

I am yet to find a sailboat race for which I cannot produce results. Some
races take a little more imagination than others, but Sailwave is very
flexible and can score almost any series.

The following link is for our Lido 14 twilight series, 78 races with over
108 different competitors. The results overall, A’s, B’s, Junior’s and
Women’s were all produced from a single Sailwave file using aliases, merging
and a few other tricks. http://www.abyc.org/event.cfm?id=376

Another example which was done using Aliases is Long Beach Race Week. The
Fast 50, IRC and TP52 results were all generated from a single result using
Aliases. http://www.lbrw.org/2010_Results/2010_LBRW_Results_Alpha.html

It does take a while to figure out how to get what you want, but the group
is pretty responsive and will help you figure it out. Review the Sailwave
User Guide available from
http://www.abyc.org/upload/Sailwave_ABYC_User_Guide.pdf

Mark Townsend
Phone: 562-433-4366

Cell: 562-533-5909
Email:mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of JON
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 3:49 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: New to sailwave

Hi Tony,

As no one else has answered your question I’ll see what I can do but there
may be some better replies to come. Sailwave is incredibly flexible and can
do most things - Colin has put an incredible amount of work into it over the
years.

It can certainly handle Scratch and Handicap at the same time by using
aliases. You effectively have 1 competitor and an alias. The alias is scored
with Handicap results. But you only enter results for each race once and
Sailwave uses it for both the main and alias competitor. I assume that is
one of the questions that you were asking.

You can choose to score all the competitors together or it can score by
fleet (or many other options)

Could you explain your 3,2,1 handicap system a bit more please its not
something I’m familiar with.
How often do you adjust the handicap? After each event or after each race?

Jon

— In sailwave@yahoogroups.commailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com , “Tony”
<tonypowell55@…> wrote:

Hi,

i am trying to determine if Sailwave will cater for the results at my
club. We run Laser races for both full rigs and radials, all boats
compete in all races bar the club championship which splits the fleets
up.

Icant tell if Sailwave will cater for what is a subset of results, ie we
have a season pointscore and then during that, we also have either
trophy races or club championship races.

Can Sailwave manage this format? i assume we can configure it to show
scratch results (club championships) and handicap results (trophy
races).

Finally, we operate a 3, 2, 1 handicap system - first place on handicap
has 3 mins added to thier time, 2nd place - 2mins and 3rd , 1 minute.
The max handicap is 10 minutes. How does Sailwave cater for this system?

thanks in advance

Tony

Number of race days

Number of races

Drops

Fleet

Season scratch results

24

48

8

Full rig& Radial

Season handicap results

24

48

8

Full rig& Radial

Club championship -

8

16

4

Separate Full rig and Radial series

4 x Trophy series

4

8

0

Full rig& Radial

8

Hi Art,

If I understand your problems then I think you could use the aliases
feature to handle the Problem B

Problem A - Sailwave can be told not to recalculate earlier races if you
have Qualifiers and Finals. There is a tick box which tells Sailwave
not to recalculate Qualifying races once the first Finals is entered.
Don't know if you could use this in some roundabout way to get it to
work the way you want.

Sailwave can handle the concept of not recalculating previous races so
the best way may be to make Colin a donation if he was to add a way of
doing this easily with Sailwave.

Mark may have some better ideas than me

Jon

Mark,

About three years ago we were looking at new scoring programs for my
club. At the time, no one could figure out a way to score out Wed.

night

summer series the way we want using Sailwave so we went with another
program. That hasn't been a success so we are once again looking for a
new program. I've used Sailwave for a few local regattas and it could
clearly handle our regattas. But, we have this Wed. night summer

series

that is a series longer than a regatta and Sailwave APPARENTLY cannot
handle that. If you can think of a way that could be handled I'd

really

appreciate it.

CRITERIA

1. Custom high-point scoring system that Sailwave can handle (I've

used

it to score regattas and KNOW that it works just fine). DNF, DSQ, etc.
get 1 point fixed. Points are "normalized" so the middle boat in every
fleet gets the same points (5.5) regardless of size.

2. Each race is a separate event with a separate entry. If you don't
enter you aren't in the results. [When we do series scoring boats that
didn't enter will be assigned 0 points for the race.]

3. Inside each fleet, standard scoring will apply for doing series
results. But, we also generate "Division" results, which includes
several fleets. Because our custom high-point system "normalizes"
results it is fair (or at least relatively fair) to compare points

among

fleets. However, if a fleet is below a certain threshold (too small)

for

a race we assign the boats in that fleet 1 point (same as DNF) for

that

race.

4. We do Personal Handicaps for some of the fleets but I now think

that

can probably be handled just fine by Jon Eskdale's add-on for Excel.

When I last checked this out, our high-point formula used "entrants"

and

Sailwave just couldn't handle that each race would have a different
number of entrants. Since then, we've change to using "starters" in

our

formula so there is a chance Sailwave might be able to handle it.

THE PROBLEMS

A. When you press the score button it rescores EVERY race. So, when a
new boat enters race #2 the results of race #1 now show a boat that
didn't enter and shouldn't be scored as racing in that race. AND, when

a

boat from race #1 doesn't enter in race #2 then it is shown as having
raced in race #2 when it shouldn't be scored in that race at all.

B. We want different scores when scoring the Fleet series results and
the Division series results.

I suppose we could solve problem B by running two versions of the
scoring program at the same time, one to generate Fleet scores and
another to generate Division scores. Our current scoring program

(highly

customized by us) simply generates and keeps track of two scores at

the

same time.

Problem A is much tougher. I tried to "import" results from a race blw
file into a series blw file. If we could import points that would work
fine. But, the import function only allows the import of finish times
and when you hit the rescore button for the series blw all the points
are changed.

We are thinking of changing to Sailwave for our regattas and then

using

a custom program for our Wed. night summer series. However, pretty

much

everyone would prefer to use the same scoring program both for regatta
and for series longer than a regatta.

Any advice GREATLY appreciated.

Art

PS - Also, when I checked out Sailwave three years ago we didn't
particularly like that we couldn't change the text on the html

printout

but I saw Colin posted that the text that prints can be modified using
Javascript so I assume that hurdle can be overcome now.

> Hi Tony,
>
>
>
> I am yet to find a sailboat race for which I cannot produce results.

Some

> races take a little more imagination than others, but Sailwave is

very

> flexible and can score almost any series.
>
>
>
> The following link is for our Lido 14 twilight series, 78 races with

over

> 108 different competitors. The results overall, A's, B's, Junior's

and

> Women's were all produced from a single Sailwave file using aliases,

merging

> and a few other tricks. http://www.abyc.org/event.cfm?id=376
>
>
>
> Another example which was done using Aliases is Long Beach Race

Week. The

> Fast 50, IRC and TP52 results were all generated from a single

result using

> Aliases.

http://www.lbrw.org/2010_Results/2010_LBRW_Results_Alpha.html

>
>
>
> It does take a while to figure out how to get what you want, but the

group

> is pretty responsive and will help you figure it out. Review the

Sailwave

> User Guide available from
> http://www.abyc.org/upload/Sailwave_ABYC_User_Guide.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark Townsend
> Phone: 562-433-4366
>
> Cell: 562-533-5909
> Email:<mailto:s_mark_townsend@… s_mark_townsend@…
>
>
>
> From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf

> Of JON
> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 3:49 PM
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [sailwave] Re: New to sailwave
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> As no one else has answered your question I'll see what I can do but

there

> may be some better replies to come. Sailwave is incredibly flexible

and can

> do most things - Colin has put an incredible amount of work into it

over the

> years.
>
> It can certainly handle Scratch and Handicap at the same time by

using

> aliases. You effectively have 1 competitor and an alias. The alias

is scored

> with Handicap results. But you only enter results for each race once

and

> Sailwave uses it for both the main and alias competitor. I assume

that is

> one of the questions that you were asking.
>
> You can choose to score all the competitors together or it can score

by

> fleet (or many other options)
>
> Could you explain your 3,2,1 handicap system a bit more please its

not

> something I'm familiar with.
> How often do you adjust the handicap? After each event or after each

race?

>
> Jon
>
> --- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com<mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com>

, "Tony"

> tonypowell55@ wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> i am trying to determine if Sailwave will cater for the results at

my

>> club. We run Laser races for both full rigs and radials, all boats
>> compete in all races bar the club championship which splits the

fleets

>> up.
>>
>> Icant tell if Sailwave will cater for what is a subset of results,

ie we

>> have a season pointscore and then during that, we also have either
>> trophy races or club championship races.
>>
>> Can Sailwave manage this format? i assume we can configure it to

show

>> scratch results (club championships) and handicap results (trophy
>> races).
>>
>> Finally, we operate a 3, 2, 1 handicap system - first place on

handicap

>> has 3 mins added to thier time, 2nd place - 2mins and 3rd , 1

minute.

>> The max handicap is 10 minutes. How does Sailwave cater for this

system?

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Art Engel <artengel123@...> wrote:

On 6/18/2012 5:41 PM, S Mark Townsend wrote:
>>
>> thanks in advance
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Number of race days
>>
>> Number of races
>>
>> Drops
>>
>> Fleet
>>
>> Season scratch results
>>
>> 24
>>
>> 48
>>
>> 8
>>
>> Full rig& Radial
>>
>> Season handicap results
>>
>> 24
>>
>> 48
>>
>> 8
>>
>> Full rig& Radial
>>
>> Club championship -
>>
>> 8
>>
>> 16
>>
>> 4
>>
>> Separate Full rig and Radial series
>>
>> 4 x Trophy series
>>
>> 4
>>
>> 8
>>
>> 0
>>
>> Full rig& Radial
>>
>
>
>
>

9

Hello Art,

I use Sailwave since to years to scor our wednesday evening races (pursuit starts and high point system).

To Your problem A: I enter only the place of each boat at the end of the racing time. Boats that didn't race in race 2 get no result and are automaticaly scored as DNC (0 points). So it doesn't matter that there are differrent numbers of starters in each race.

To problem B: You can solve this problems eather by using aliases or/and by using two scoring systems in one sailwave file. After scoring with the first scoring system, You can publish those resultes and than You score with the second scoring system and publish again.

Christof

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Art Engel <artengel123@...> wrote:

THE PROBLEMS

A. When you press the score button it rescores EVERY race. So, when a
new boat enters race #2 the results of race #1 now show a boat that
didn't enter and shouldn't be scored as racing in that race. AND, when a
boat from race #1 doesn't enter in race #2 then it is shown as having
raced in race #2 when it shouldn't be scored in that race at all.

B. We want different scores when scoring the Fleet series results and
the Division series results.

10

Can you give me specifics? When I tried this in the past I could only import one set of points. After that I had to import finish times. Perhaps there is some setting I've messed up.

Art

···

On 6/19/2012 3:55 PM, John Tiano wrote:

been using sailwave for 5 years now and it can accomplish what you want. set
up a new wed night summer series file ( you can make a copy of the wed night
regatta) then append the scores of the weekly regatta into the series file.
so now each week will be scored as one in the series file.

JT

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Art Engel
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 5:40 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: New to sailwave

Mark,

About three years ago we were looking at new scoring programs for my
club. At the time, no one could figure out a way to score out Wed. night
summer series the way we want using Sailwave so we went with another
program. That hasn't been a success so we are once again looking for a
new program. I've used Sailwave for a few local regattas and it could
clearly handle our regattas. But, we have this Wed. night summer series
that is a series longer than a regatta and Sailwave APPARENTLY cannot
handle that. If you can think of a way that could be handled I'd really
appreciate it.

CRITERIA

1. Custom high-point scoring system that Sailwave can handle (I've used
it to score regattas and KNOW that it works just fine). DNF, DSQ, etc.
get 1 point fixed. Points are "normalized" so the middle boat in every
fleet gets the same points (5.5) regardless of size.

2. Each race is a separate event with a separate entry. If you don't
enter you aren't in the results. [When we do series scoring boats that
didn't enter will be assigned 0 points for the race.]

3. Inside each fleet, standard scoring will apply for doing series
results. But, we also generate "Division" results, which includes
several fleets. Because our custom high-point system "normalizes"
results it is fair (or at least relatively fair) to compare points among
fleets. However, if a fleet is below a certain threshold (too small) for
a race we assign the boats in that fleet 1 point (same as DNF) for that
race.

4. We do Personal Handicaps for some of the fleets but I now think that
can probably be handled just fine by Jon Eskdale's add-on for Excel.

When I last checked this out, our high-point formula used "entrants" and
Sailwave just couldn't handle that each race would have a different
number of entrants. Since then, we've change to using "starters" in our
formula so there is a chance Sailwave might be able to handle it.

THE PROBLEMS

A. When you press the score button it rescores EVERY race. So, when a
new boat enters race #2 the results of race #1 now show a boat that
didn't enter and shouldn't be scored as racing in that race. AND, when a
boat from race #1 doesn't enter in race #2 then it is shown as having
raced in race #2 when it shouldn't be scored in that race at all.

B. We want different scores when scoring the Fleet series results and
the Division series results.

I suppose we could solve problem B by running two versions of the
scoring program at the same time, one to generate Fleet scores and
another to generate Division scores. Our current scoring program (highly
customized by us) simply generates and keeps track of two scores at the
same time.

Problem A is much tougher. I tried to "import" results from a race blw
file into a series blw file. If we could import points that would work
fine. But, the import function only allows the import of finish times
and when you hit the rescore button for the series blw all the points
are changed.

We are thinking of changing to Sailwave for our regattas and then using
a custom program for our Wed. night summer series. However, pretty much
everyone would prefer to use the same scoring program both for regatta
and for series longer than a regatta.

Any advice GREATLY appreciated.

Art

PS - Also, when I checked out Sailwave three years ago we didn't
particularly like that we couldn't change the text on the html printout
but I saw Colin posted that the text that prints can be modified using
Javascript so I assume that hurdle can be overcome now.

On 6/18/2012 5:41 PM, S Mark Townsend wrote:

Hi Tony,

I am yet to find a sailboat race for which I cannot produce results. Some
races take a little more imagination than others, but Sailwave is very
flexible and can score almost any series.

The following link is for our Lido 14 twilight series, 78 races with over
108 different competitors. The results overall, A's, B's, Junior's and
Women's were all produced from a single Sailwave file using aliases,

merging

and a few other tricks. http://www.abyc.org/event.cfm?id=376

Another example which was done using Aliases is Long Beach Race Week. The
Fast 50, IRC and TP52 results were all generated from a single result

using

Aliases. http://www.lbrw.org/2010_Results/2010_LBRW_Results_Alpha.html

It does take a while to figure out how to get what you want, but the group
is pretty responsive and will help you figure it out. Review the Sailwave
User Guide available from
http://www.abyc.org/upload/Sailwave_ABYC_User_Guide.pdf

Mark Townsend
Phone: 562-433-4366

Cell: 562-533-5909
Email:<mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com

<mailto:s_mark_townsend%40hotmail.com> > s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
<mailto:s_mark_townsend%40hotmail.com>

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com<mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com<mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf

Of JON
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 3:49 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com<mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [sailwave] Re: New to sailwave

Hi Tony,

As no one else has answered your question I'll see what I can do but there
may be some better replies to come. Sailwave is incredibly flexible and

can

do most things - Colin has put an incredible amount of work into it over

the

years.

It can certainly handle Scratch and Handicap at the same time by using
aliases. You effectively have 1 competitor and an alias. The alias is

scored

with Handicap results. But you only enter results for each race once and
Sailwave uses it for both the main and alias competitor. I assume that is
one of the questions that you were asking.

You can choose to score all the competitors together or it can score by
fleet (or many other options)

Could you explain your 3,2,1 handicap system a bit more please its not
something I'm familiar with.
How often do you adjust the handicap? After each event or after each race?

Jon

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com<mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com> , "Tony"

<tonypowell55@...> wrote:

Hi,

i am trying to determine if Sailwave will cater for the results at my
club. We run Laser races for both full rigs and radials, all boats
compete in all races bar the club championship which splits the fleets
up.

Icant tell if Sailwave will cater for what is a subset of results, ie we
have a season pointscore and then during that, we also have either
trophy races or club championship races.

Can Sailwave manage this format? i assume we can configure it to show
scratch results (club championships) and handicap results (trophy
races).

Finally, we operate a 3, 2, 1 handicap system - first place on handicap
has 3 mins added to thier time, 2nd place - 2mins and 3rd , 1 minute.
The max handicap is 10 minutes. How does Sailwave cater for this system?

thanks in advance

Tony

Number of race days

Number of races

Drops

Fleet

Season scratch results

24

48

8

Full rig& Radial

Season handicap results

24

48

8

Full rig& Radial

Club championship -

8

16

4

Separate Full rig and Radial series

4 x Trophy series

4

8

0

Full rig& Radial

11

Jon - I didn't know that about Qualifiers and Finals. Perhaps there might be a way to finesse that (each new race might become the first "Final" and all earlier races would then become "Qualifiers").

I did offer to pay Colin a couple of years ago but he didn't seem interested at the time and I didn't pursue it.

As to problem B, I did think aliases would work based on what I read about them. Scoring the whole thing twice (with a slightly different formula) seemed like it might be easier. Our first summer series race next year will be April so I definitely I have time to work this out.

Your PH stuff solved one thing that had been a problem in the past.

Art

PS - Earlier I asked about calculating PHs based on more than the last race. I never got around to responding. Sorry! Currently we use the last race but recognize that using multiple previous races might be better. I haven't consulted the people who sail in those fleets (I do not) but using multiple races probably isn't a high priority. So, your stuff would handle what we do now and mostly likely will handle what we want to do in the future. One thing ECHO does that we don't do is to "rate" races as to whether they were a good measure of boat performance. Plus, ECHO is supposed to ignore when a boat loses on purpose. We have no way of handling that so when a boat intentionally loses it will impact the handicap for the next race. Also, I think most ECHO races are dual-scored (IRC and ECHO). We don't do that and from what I can tell the boats in our personal handicap fleets don't want to double-score.

···

On 6/19/2012 4:02 PM, JON wrote:

Hi Art,

If I understand your problems then I think you could use the aliases
feature to handle the Problem B

Problem A - Sailwave can be told not to recalculate earlier races if you
have Qualifiers and Finals. There is a tick box which tells Sailwave
not to recalculate Qualifying races once the first Finals is entered.
Don't know if you could use this in some roundabout way to get it to
work the way you want.

Sailwave can handle the concept of not recalculating previous races so
the best way may be to make Colin a donation if he was to add a way of
doing this easily with Sailwave.

Mark may have some better ideas than me

Jon

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Art Engel<artengel123@...> wrote:

Mark,

About three years ago we were looking at new scoring programs for my
club. At the time, no one could figure out a way to score out Wed.

night

summer series the way we want using Sailwave so we went with another
program. That hasn't been a success so we are once again looking for a
new program. I've used Sailwave for a few local regattas and it could
clearly handle our regattas. But, we have this Wed. night summer

series

that is a series longer than a regatta and Sailwave APPARENTLY cannot
handle that. If you can think of a way that could be handled I'd

really

appreciate it.

CRITERIA

1. Custom high-point scoring system that Sailwave can handle (I've

used

it to score regattas and KNOW that it works just fine). DNF, DSQ, etc.
get 1 point fixed. Points are "normalized" so the middle boat in every
fleet gets the same points (5.5) regardless of size.

2. Each race is a separate event with a separate entry. If you don't
enter you aren't in the results. [When we do series scoring boats that
didn't enter will be assigned 0 points for the race.]

3. Inside each fleet, standard scoring will apply for doing series
results. But, we also generate "Division" results, which includes
several fleets. Because our custom high-point system "normalizes"
results it is fair (or at least relatively fair) to compare points

among

fleets. However, if a fleet is below a certain threshold (too small)

for

a race we assign the boats in that fleet 1 point (same as DNF) for

that

race.

4. We do Personal Handicaps for some of the fleets but I now think

that

can probably be handled just fine by Jon Eskdale's add-on for Excel.

When I last checked this out, our high-point formula used "entrants"

and

Sailwave just couldn't handle that each race would have a different
number of entrants. Since then, we've change to using "starters" in

our

formula so there is a chance Sailwave might be able to handle it.

THE PROBLEMS

A. When you press the score button it rescores EVERY race. So, when a
new boat enters race #2 the results of race #1 now show a boat that
didn't enter and shouldn't be scored as racing in that race. AND, when

a

boat from race #1 doesn't enter in race #2 then it is shown as having
raced in race #2 when it shouldn't be scored in that race at all.

B. We want different scores when scoring the Fleet series results and
the Division series results.

I suppose we could solve problem B by running two versions of the
scoring program at the same time, one to generate Fleet scores and
another to generate Division scores. Our current scoring program

(highly

customized by us) simply generates and keeps track of two scores at

the

same time.

Problem A is much tougher. I tried to "import" results from a race blw
file into a series blw file. If we could import points that would work
fine. But, the import function only allows the import of finish times
and when you hit the rescore button for the series blw all the points
are changed.

We are thinking of changing to Sailwave for our regattas and then

using

a custom program for our Wed. night summer series. However, pretty

much

everyone would prefer to use the same scoring program both for regatta
and for series longer than a regatta.

Any advice GREATLY appreciated.

Art

PS - Also, when I checked out Sailwave three years ago we didn't
particularly like that we couldn't change the text on the html

printout

but I saw Colin posted that the text that prints can be modified using
Javascript so I assume that hurdle can be overcome now.

12

Hi Art,

I guess either using Aliases or recalculating with different scoring systems will work which ever you find easiest.

I'm still working on the PH program and will hopefully release an updated version later this week with a few more features.

The Echo calculation for example when a boat deliberately loses is still a manual process, and that is why with my PH program there are two buttons - To Excel and To Sailwave. After you have the data in Excel you can review it and make any manual adjustments necessary before you transfer the new handicaps back to Sailwave. And this is why my program always reloads the default template between races, so that you can change something for a race but it will return to the default for the next race.

My PH program can handle the double score if you wish but can also be used for single scores.

Jon

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Art Engel <artengel123@...> wrote:

Jon - I didn't know that about Qualifiers and Finals. Perhaps there
might be a way to finesse that (each new race might become the first
"Final" and all earlier races would then become "Qualifiers").

I did offer to pay Colin a couple of years ago but he didn't seem
interested at the time and I didn't pursue it.

As to problem B, I did think aliases would work based on what I read
about them. Scoring the whole thing twice (with a slightly different
formula) seemed like it might be easier. Our first summer series race
next year will be April so I definitely I have time to work this out.

Your PH stuff solved one thing that had been a problem in the past.

Art

PS - Earlier I asked about calculating PHs based on more than the last
race. I never got around to responding. Sorry! Currently we use the last
race but recognize that using multiple previous races might be better. I
haven't consulted the people who sail in those fleets (I do not) but
using multiple races probably isn't a high priority. So, your stuff
would handle what we do now and mostly likely will handle what we want
to do in the future. One thing ECHO does that we don't do is to "rate"
races as to whether they were a good measure of boat performance. Plus,
ECHO is supposed to ignore when a boat loses on purpose. We have no way
of handling that so when a boat intentionally loses it will impact the
handicap for the next race. Also, I think most ECHO races are
dual-scored (IRC and ECHO). We don't do that and from what I can tell
the boats in our personal handicap fleets don't want to double-score.

On 6/19/2012 4:02 PM, JON wrote:
> Hi Art,
>
> If I understand your problems then I think you could use the aliases
> feature to handle the Problem B
>
> Problem A - Sailwave can be told not to recalculate earlier races if you
> have Qualifiers and Finals. There is a tick box which tells Sailwave
> not to recalculate Qualifying races once the first Finals is entered.
> Don't know if you could use this in some roundabout way to get it to
> work the way you want.
>
> Sailwave can handle the concept of not recalculating previous races so
> the best way may be to make Colin a donation if he was to add a way of
> doing this easily with Sailwave.
>
> Mark may have some better ideas than me
>
> Jon
>
>
> --- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Art Engel<artengel123@> wrote:
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> About three years ago we were looking at new scoring programs for my
>> club. At the time, no one could figure out a way to score out Wed.
> night
>> summer series the way we want using Sailwave so we went with another
>> program. That hasn't been a success so we are once again looking for a
>> new program. I've used Sailwave for a few local regattas and it could
>> clearly handle our regattas. But, we have this Wed. night summer
> series
>> that is a series longer than a regatta and Sailwave APPARENTLY cannot
>> handle that. If you can think of a way that could be handled I'd
> really
>> appreciate it.
>>
>> CRITERIA
>>
>> 1. Custom high-point scoring system that Sailwave can handle (I've
> used
>> it to score regattas and KNOW that it works just fine). DNF, DSQ, etc.
>> get 1 point fixed. Points are "normalized" so the middle boat in every
>> fleet gets the same points (5.5) regardless of size.
>>
>> 2. Each race is a separate event with a separate entry. If you don't
>> enter you aren't in the results. [When we do series scoring boats that
>> didn't enter will be assigned 0 points for the race.]
>>
>> 3. Inside each fleet, standard scoring will apply for doing series
>> results. But, we also generate "Division" results, which includes
>> several fleets. Because our custom high-point system "normalizes"
>> results it is fair (or at least relatively fair) to compare points
> among
>> fleets. However, if a fleet is below a certain threshold (too small)
> for
>> a race we assign the boats in that fleet 1 point (same as DNF) for
> that
>> race.
>>
>> 4. We do Personal Handicaps for some of the fleets but I now think
> that
>> can probably be handled just fine by Jon Eskdale's add-on for Excel.
>>
>>
>> When I last checked this out, our high-point formula used "entrants"
> and
>> Sailwave just couldn't handle that each race would have a different
>> number of entrants. Since then, we've change to using "starters" in
> our
>> formula so there is a chance Sailwave might be able to handle it.
>>
>>
>> THE PROBLEMS
>>
>> A. When you press the score button it rescores EVERY race. So, when a
>> new boat enters race #2 the results of race #1 now show a boat that
>> didn't enter and shouldn't be scored as racing in that race. AND, when
> a
>> boat from race #1 doesn't enter in race #2 then it is shown as having
>> raced in race #2 when it shouldn't be scored in that race at all.
>>
>> B. We want different scores when scoring the Fleet series results and
>> the Division series results.
>>
>>
>> I suppose we could solve problem B by running two versions of the
>> scoring program at the same time, one to generate Fleet scores and
>> another to generate Division scores. Our current scoring program
> (highly
>> customized by us) simply generates and keeps track of two scores at
> the
>> same time.
>>
>> Problem A is much tougher. I tried to "import" results from a race blw
>> file into a series blw file. If we could import points that would work
>> fine. But, the import function only allows the import of finish times
>> and when you hit the rescore button for the series blw all the points
>> are changed.
>>
>>
>> We are thinking of changing to Sailwave for our regattas and then
> using
>> a custom program for our Wed. night summer series. However, pretty
> much
>> everyone would prefer to use the same scoring program both for regatta
>> and for series longer than a regatta.
>>
>> Any advice GREATLY appreciated.
>>
>> Art
>>
>> PS - Also, when I checked out Sailwave three years ago we didn't
>> particularly like that we couldn't change the text on the html
> printout
>> but I saw Colin posted that the text that prints can be modified using
>> Javascript so I assume that hurdle can be overcome now.
>>

13

I'm not sure that aliases would be any more help than simply scoring the Fleets (one by one) with one formula and the Divisions (multiple fleets as one) with another. I didn't think of that three years ago and I now think it would work just fine.

Can anyone help with the formula for Divisions? I want one formula (say place +1) if the Fleet has fewer than 5 starters and a different formula (say place +2) if the fleet has 5 or more starters. My actual formulas are more complicated but you get the idea. I just don't know how to do an IF...THEN calculation using the expressions that Sailwave provides.

RE: PHs

I might get back to you in a few months but for now the ability to decide the next race based on the last race is all my folks are looking for. Colin tried to implement this in Sailwave but somehow the coding got messed up. We want to base calculations on the Median boat. Colin implemented a percentage but only 0% and 100% work correctly. If that glitch were fixed we should be able to do it directly in Sailwave. [TOD Adjustment = 15% of difference between current rating and rating to tie median boat with a max adjustment of 20 sec/mi (+/-).]

Art

···

On 6/20/2012 4:57 AM, JON wrote:

Hi Art,

I guess either using Aliases or recalculating with different scoring systems will work which ever you find easiest.

I'm still working on the PH program and will hopefully release an updated version later this week with a few more features.

The Echo calculation for example when a boat deliberately loses is still a manual process, and that is why with my PH program there are two buttons - To Excel and To Sailwave. After you have the data in Excel you can review it and make any manual adjustments necessary before you transfer the new handicaps back to Sailwave. And this is why my program always reloads the default template between races, so that you can change something for a race but it will return to the default for the next race.

My PH program can handle the double score if you wish but can also be used for single scores.

Jon

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Art Engel<artengel123@...> wrote:

Jon - I didn't know that about Qualifiers and Finals. Perhaps there
might be a way to finesse that (each new race might become the first
"Final" and all earlier races would then become "Qualifiers").

I did offer to pay Colin a couple of years ago but he didn't seem
interested at the time and I didn't pursue it.

As to problem B, I did think aliases would work based on what I read
about them. Scoring the whole thing twice (with a slightly different
formula) seemed like it might be easier. Our first summer series race
next year will be April so I definitely I have time to work this out.

Your PH stuff solved one thing that had been a problem in the past.

Art

PS - Earlier I asked about calculating PHs based on more than the last
race. I never got around to responding. Sorry! Currently we use the last
race but recognize that using multiple previous races might be better. I
haven't consulted the people who sail in those fleets (I do not) but
using multiple races probably isn't a high priority. So, your stuff
would handle what we do now and mostly likely will handle what we want
to do in the future. One thing ECHO does that we don't do is to "rate"
races as to whether they were a good measure of boat performance. Plus,
ECHO is supposed to ignore when a boat loses on purpose. We have no way
of handling that so when a boat intentionally loses it will impact the
handicap for the next race. Also, I think most ECHO races are
dual-scored (IRC and ECHO). We don't do that and from what I can tell
the boats in our personal handicap fleets don't want to double-score.

On 6/19/2012 4:02 PM, JON wrote:

Hi Art,

If I understand your problems then I think you could use the aliases
feature to handle the Problem B

Problem A - Sailwave can be told not to recalculate earlier races if you
have Qualifiers and Finals. There is a tick box which tells Sailwave
not to recalculate Qualifying races once the first Finals is entered.
Don't know if you could use this in some roundabout way to get it to
work the way you want.

Sailwave can handle the concept of not recalculating previous races so
the best way may be to make Colin a donation if he was to add a way of
doing this easily with Sailwave.

Mark may have some better ideas than me

Jon

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Art Engel<artengel123@> wrote:

Mark,

About three years ago we were looking at new scoring programs for my
club. At the time, no one could figure out a way to score out Wed.

night

summer series the way we want using Sailwave so we went with another
program. That hasn't been a success so we are once again looking for a
new program. I've used Sailwave for a few local regattas and it could
clearly handle our regattas. But, we have this Wed. night summer

series

that is a series longer than a regatta and Sailwave APPARENTLY cannot
handle that. If you can think of a way that could be handled I'd

really

appreciate it.

CRITERIA

1. Custom high-point scoring system that Sailwave can handle (I've

used

it to score regattas and KNOW that it works just fine). DNF, DSQ, etc.
get 1 point fixed. Points are "normalized" so the middle boat in every
fleet gets the same points (5.5) regardless of size.

2. Each race is a separate event with a separate entry. If you don't
enter you aren't in the results. [When we do series scoring boats that
didn't enter will be assigned 0 points for the race.]

3. Inside each fleet, standard scoring will apply for doing series
results. But, we also generate "Division" results, which includes
several fleets. Because our custom high-point system "normalizes"
results it is fair (or at least relatively fair) to compare points

among

fleets. However, if a fleet is below a certain threshold (too small)

for

a race we assign the boats in that fleet 1 point (same as DNF) for

that

race.

4. We do Personal Handicaps for some of the fleets but I now think

that

can probably be handled just fine by Jon Eskdale's add-on for Excel.

When I last checked this out, our high-point formula used "entrants"

and

Sailwave just couldn't handle that each race would have a different
number of entrants. Since then, we've change to using "starters" in

our

formula so there is a chance Sailwave might be able to handle it.

THE PROBLEMS

A. When you press the score button it rescores EVERY race. So, when a
new boat enters race #2 the results of race #1 now show a boat that
didn't enter and shouldn't be scored as racing in that race. AND, when

a

boat from race #1 doesn't enter in race #2 then it is shown as having
raced in race #2 when it shouldn't be scored in that race at all.

B. We want different scores when scoring the Fleet series results and
the Division series results.

I suppose we could solve problem B by running two versions of the
scoring program at the same time, one to generate Fleet scores and
another to generate Division scores. Our current scoring program

(highly

customized by us) simply generates and keeps track of two scores at

the

same time.

Problem A is much tougher. I tried to "import" results from a race blw
file into a series blw file. If we could import points that would work
fine. But, the import function only allows the import of finish times
and when you hit the rescore button for the series blw all the points
are changed.

We are thinking of changing to Sailwave for our regattas and then

using

a custom program for our Wed. night summer series. However, pretty

much

everyone would prefer to use the same scoring program both for regatta
and for series longer than a regatta.

Any advice GREATLY appreciated.

Art

PS - Also, when I checked out Sailwave three years ago we didn't
particularly like that we couldn't change the text on the html

printout

but I saw Colin posted that the text that prints can be modified using
Javascript so I assume that hurdle can be overcome now.

------------------------------------

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