New user to Sailwave having some problems

Imported from Yahoo
1

I am attempting to use Sailwave to recalculate our 2008 series standings.
Our series standings represent 18 events with a total of 14 participants.
In this case results are for the Radio Controlled Soling One Meter class.
We wish to evaluate high point scoring schemes, so that's why I want to
recalculate for last year.

I am running into a number of problems using 2.00 build 6 under XP Pro SP3:
1) I get the following error message for every race in the series:
Scoring Problem
Sailwave has found a scoring problem. You need to resolve it and
then score the series again. The main view will display finishes (not
points) in the result cells when you close this window.

Copy text to clipboard results:
Version: 2.00 build 6
Installed: Unknown
Time: 9:52:52 AM
Race: R1
Competitor: 67 Bailey, Steve
Result: DNC
67 Bailey, Steve is not in a start for race 1.

Version: 2.00 build 6
Installed: Unknown
Time: 9:53:16 AM
Race: R2
Competitor: 67 Bailey, Steve
Result: 4
67 Bailey, Steve is not in a start for race 2.

same message for Race 3 through 17 . . .

Version: 2.00 build 6
Installed: Unknown
Time: 9:53:51 AM
Race: R18
Competitor: 67 Bailey, Steve
Result: 4
67 Bailey, Steve is not in a start for race 18.

Problem 2)
We would prefer to ignore DNC for purposes of scoring our season
standings, but there does not appear to be any way to ignore this.
I have experimented with a number of values for DNC, but no luck
so far. Because I am unable to ignore DNC, this messes up the
number of throwouts we allow. We basically only count the 10
best scores for series standings.

Problem 3)
On the low point scoring system, we award two points for a
non-sailing race director. Sailwave sees this as a duplicate 2nd
place finish, and refuses to allow a third place entry, even when
told to ignore ties. I tried changing this to OOD code with a
value of 2, but this does not seem to work when I experiment with
Rinderle B or Chips high point scoring.

I will be happy to seek help off-list if someone wants me to send
copies of the .blw files.

Thanks,
Peter Eschman

Scorer for Duke City Model Yacht Club (DCMYC)
http://pages.swcp.com/dcmyc/

···

Date: June 04, 2009
Date: June 04, 2009
Date: June 04, 2009

2

Peter Eschman wrote:

67 Bailey, Steve is not in a start for race 1.
67 Bailey, Steve is not in a start for race 2.
same message for Race 3 through 17 . . .
67 Bailey, Steve is not in a start for race 18.

Looks like its confused over 67 taking part. It does that if 67 is in
the series but inst DNC/DNF or possitioned. I'd delete him and reenter
him :wink:

Problem 2)
We would prefer to ignore DNC for purposes of scoring our season
standings, but there does not appear to be any way to ignore this.
I have experimented with a number of values for DNC, but no luck
so far. Because I am unable to ignore DNC, this messes up the
number of throwouts we allow. We basically only count the 10
best scores for series standings.

Do you mean you MUST start 10 races? So DNC can't count?

Problem 3)
On the low point scoring system, we award two points for a
non-sailing race director. Sailwave sees this as a duplicate 2nd
place finish, and refuses to allow a third place entry, even when
told to ignore ties. I tried changing this to OOD code with a
value of 2, but this does not seem to work when I experiment with
Rinderle B or Chips high point scoring.

You definately don't want to score it as a second place... cause
logically you can't have 2 seconds and a 3rd...I suspect ignore ties
doesn't affect that - only how ties are then processed

OOD is the right approach.

What you need to do is change the OOD points for your high points system
- ie. scoring 2 is bad on high points...

In the UK most sailing clubs (dinghy) use something like average points
for that race / series for OOD (I think) -- that works well for both low
and high...

Does scoring 2 not potentially advantage someone who does a lot of OOD.

3

Calum,

Thanks for your help, please see comments below:

Peter Eschman wrote:

67 Bailey, Steve is not in a start for race 1.
67 Bailey, Steve is not in a start for race 2.
same message for Race 3 through 17 . . .
67 Bailey, Steve is not in a start for race 18.

Looks like its confused over 67 taking part. It does that if 67 is in
the series but inst DNC/DNF or possitioned. I'd delete him and reenter
him :wink:

I can try to delete and re-enter, but in the original text I quoted,
you can see that he is scored as DNC for Race 1, and other
races do show his place in the error message, even though the
message (incorrectly) says he did not start.

I just deleted Bailey, Steve and now the same behavior is showing
for Boebert, Earl on every race. If I delete Boebert, then the
message shifts to another competitor for every race, and so on.

Note: for each competitor, I have only entered sail number and
HelmName. Could this be a problem?

Problem 2)
We would prefer to ignore DNC for purposes of scoring our season
standings, but there does not appear to be any way to ignore this.
I have experimented with a number of values for DNC, but no luck
so far. Because I am unable to ignore DNC, this messes up the
number of throwouts we allow. We basically only count the 10
best scores for series standings.

Do you mean you MUST start 10 races? So DNC can't count?

Yes, only those that have started in 10 events can count for season
standings. (Each event is composed of multiple "heats" as the
RC sailing rules call them in Appendix E). The problem is that for
those who started more than 10 events, the DNCs are using up
throwouts that should apply.

Problem 3)
On the low point scoring system, we award two points for a
non-sailing race director. Sailwave sees this as a duplicate 2nd
place finish, and refuses to allow a third place entry, even when
told to ignore ties. I tried changing this to OOD code with a
value of 2, but this does not seem to work when I experiment with
Rinderle B or Chips high point scoring.

You definately don't want to score it as a second place... cause
logically you can't have 2 seconds and a 3rd...I suspect ignore ties
doesn't affect that - only how ties are then processed

OOD is the right approach.

What you need to do is change the OOD points for your high points system
- ie. scoring 2 is bad on high points...

Since the highpoint system scores second place differently, depending
on number of boats competing, there is no easy way to correctly enter a
second place finish equivalent. I could look it up for each event, but
there is no one value that would work correctly.

In the UK most sailing clubs (dinghy) use something like average points
for that race / series for OOD (I think) -- that works well for both low
and high...

Does scoring 2 not potentially advantage someone who does a lot of OOD.

We only allow two ODD credits of second place per season. Under the
low point scoring system, the two points are intended as an incentive to
help by running the races for that day. An average score would not be
seen as an incentive.

Thanks,
Pete Eschman

···

-On Thursday, June 04, 2009 7:33 PM +0100 Calum Polwart <yahoo@wittongilbert.free-online.co.uk> wrote:

4

I have solved the first problem, which led to this error message:
"is not in a start for race". The solution was to edit each race
and add a new start. I was not aware that this was necessary,
but it did fix the problem. Each race now reads:
Start 1 All competitors Place

Seems like this would be a good default value when starting
a series from scratch. It took me a bit of poking around to
find and fix this problem. A search of the forum messages
for "is not in a start for race" led to only one hit, which did not
lead to a fix, so my experience must not be that common.

I suspect problems 2) and 3) are not something that will be
resolved. The system we use here is just not 100% compatible
with Sailwave.

Thanks,
Peter Eschman

···

--On Thursday, June 04, 2009 12:55 PM -0600 Peter Eschman <eschman@unm.edu> wrote:

Calum,

Thanks for your help, please see comments below:

-On Thursday, June 04, 2009 7:33 PM +0100 Calum Polwart > <yahoo@wittongilbert.free-online.co.uk> wrote:

Peter Eschman wrote:

67 Bailey, Steve is not in a start for race 1.
67 Bailey, Steve is not in a start for race 2.
same message for Race 3 through 17 . . .
67 Bailey, Steve is not in a start for race 18.

Looks like its confused over 67 taking part. It does that if 67 is in
the series but inst DNC/DNF or possitioned. I'd delete him and reenter
him :wink:

I can try to delete and re-enter, but in the original text I quoted,
you can see that he is scored as DNC for Race 1, and other
races do show his place in the error message, even though the
message (incorrectly) says he did not start.

I just deleted Bailey, Steve and now the same behavior is showing
for Boebert, Earl on every race. If I delete Boebert, then the
message shifts to another competitor for every race, and so on.

Note: for each competitor, I have only entered sail number and
HelmName. Could this be a problem?

Problem 2)
We would prefer to ignore DNC for purposes of scoring our season
standings, but there does not appear to be any way to ignore this.
I have experimented with a number of values for DNC, but no luck
so far. Because I am unable to ignore DNC, this messes up the
number of throwouts we allow. We basically only count the 10
best scores for series standings.

Do you mean you MUST start 10 races? So DNC can't count?

Yes, only those that have started in 10 events can count for season
standings. (Each event is composed of multiple "heats" as the
RC sailing rules call them in Appendix E). The problem is that for
those who started more than 10 events, the DNCs are using up
throwouts that should apply.

Problem 3)
On the low point scoring system, we award two points for a
non-sailing race director. Sailwave sees this as a duplicate 2nd
place finish, and refuses to allow a third place entry, even when
told to ignore ties. I tried changing this to OOD code with a
value of 2, but this does not seem to work when I experiment with
Rinderle B or Chips high point scoring.

You definately don't want to score it as a second place... cause
logically you can't have 2 seconds and a 3rd...I suspect ignore ties
doesn't affect that - only how ties are then processed

OOD is the right approach.

What you need to do is change the OOD points for your high points system
- ie. scoring 2 is bad on high points...

Since the highpoint system scores second place differently, depending
on number of boats competing, there is no easy way to correctly enter a
second place finish equivalent. I could look it up for each event, but
there is no one value that would work correctly.

In the UK most sailing clubs (dinghy) use something like average points
for that race / series for OOD (I think) -- that works well for both low
and high...

Does scoring 2 not potentially advantage someone who does a lot of OOD.

We only allow two ODD credits of second place per season. Under the
low point scoring system, the two points are intended as an incentive to
help by running the races for that day. An average score would not be
seen as an incentive.

Thanks,
Pete Eschman

5

Peter Eschman wrote:

Looks like its confused over 67 taking part. It does that if 67 is in
the series but inst DNC/DNF or possitioned. I'd delete him and reenter
him :wink:

I can try to delete and re-enter, but in the original text I quoted,
you can see that he is scored as DNC for Race 1, and other
races do show his place in the error message, even though the
message (incorrectly) says he did not start.

I just deleted Bailey, Steve and now the same behavior is showing
for Boebert, Earl on every race. If I delete Boebert, then the
message shifts to another competitor for every race, and so on.

Note: for each competitor, I have only entered sail number and
HelmName. Could this be a problem?

Aha... infact last time i saw a message similar to that (BTW I'm a
newbie at Sailwave!) was when a class didn't exist in the PY table.

The list does take sailwave files as attachments I think.

But I suspect its trying to score more than 1 start... Are you chosing
"score all as one group" on the scoring button?

Failing that - Click Edit Race -Make sure There is a single Start set
for each race and it includes All Competitors

Problem 2)

Do you mean you MUST start 10 races? So DNC can't count?

Yes, only those that have started in 10 events can count for season
standings. (Each event is composed of multiple "heats" as the
RC sailing rules call them in Appendix E). The problem is that for
those who started more than 10 events, the DNCs are using up
throwouts that should apply.

Have to say I'm not sure if there is a setting to say MUST DO 10 races..
BUT discards kind of forces that anyway.

You had 18, races. Do you have rules if races are cancelled?

Anyway assuming you are certain there would be 18 races your discard
entry would be:

0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8

(There may be slicker way to write that, possibly 8!)

But a competitor who only did 9 races would be unable to discard race 10
which would score as a DNC.

The logical approach would then be to edit each competitor who didn't
get enough races (I don't think its automatic - please correct me
someone) and set them as excluded..

Its worth noting this has no impact on scoring though. Lets say you
have 5 boats racing in a 3 race series with 1 discard. Boat 1 - 5 sail
on race 1 and get points in that order. Then Race 2 only 3 boats
(1,3,5) sail again finishing in 5,3,1 order. Then Race 3 boats 1,2,3
sail again in that order.

If you work discards then your results look like this:

Boat R1 R2 R3 Pts
1 1 (2) 1 2
2 2 (dnc) 2 4
3 3 3 (3) 6
4 4 dnc (dnc) 10
5 5 1 (dnc) 6

But if you delete (rather than exclude) boats that don't have enough
races what do you do with boat 4? By that I mean if Boat 4 didn't race
at all then Boat 5 would have scored better on the first race and so
only have 5 points overall...

So actually I don't see the need for exclusions...

Problem 3)

Since the highpoint system scores second place differently, depending
on number of boats competing, there is no easy way to correctly enter a
second place finish equivalent. I could look it up for each event, but
there is no one value that would work correctly.

Does:

"Points for the place of (the number of boats included in the series + N
places)"

With n set to a negative value - eg if at the end of the series 12 boats
sailed setting it to -11 (MINUS ELEVEN) - work?

It would require you to manually set it once - perhaps at the end of the
series or if you are publishing results along the way once each time new
boats have joined the race series.

6

Peter Eschman wrote:

I have solved the first problem, which led to this error message:
"is not in a start for race". The solution was to edit each race
and add a new start. I was not aware that this was necessary,
but it did fix the problem. Each race now reads:
Start 1 All competitors Place

Seems like this would be a good default value when starting
a series from scratch. It took me a bit of poking around to
find and fix this problem. A search of the forum messages
for "is not in a start for race" led to only one hit, which did not
lead to a fix, so my experience must not be that common.

Looks like it is the default for me...