NHC Questions

Imported from Yahoo
1

Although I’ve used Sailwave for a while, I’m new to the NHC and have a few questions. Sorry if these have been aired before, but I haven’t been able to track down any definitive answers. I’m using v2.17.1 with NHC socring in internal mode.

  1. I had assumed that NewRating column would show the rating to be applied to the next race in the series. However it seems to be the rating at the end of all sailed races in the series and so displays the same value for all races. Is that correct and, if so, is there any way of displaying the new rating calculated at the end of each race?

  2. By trial and error, I’ve discovered that there needs to be one more race in the series than actually sailed. As this is left as unsailed, it does not affect the results, but is this the correct workaround?

  3. If there are only two boats in a race, the ratings do not seem to be updated although in the RYA documentation I don’t see any reason why this should be so. Is this behaviour correct?

Thanks

Malcolm

2

Hi Malcolm

1 The NewRating column should indeed show the rating to be applied to the next race in the series. If you press F6 then R and look at the ratings there will be ratings shown in the next race to sail. i.e. the one after the last one sailed - These are the values that should appear in the NewRating column. What version of SWHelper.exe are you using as this needed to be updated as well as the main Sailwave.exe You can download SWHelper.exe from https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/220425/SWHelper.EXE - Let me know if that helps

  1. Yes this is correct as Sailwave needs somewhere to store the Ratings for the next race plus it doesn’t know that you are not going to have another race. You are correct it won’t affect the results.

  2. Yes the RYA specify there has to be a minimum of 3 boats before any changes are made.

Jon

···

On 10 May 2015 at 12:44, malcolmstewart116@yahoo.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Although I’ve used Sailwave for a while, I’m new to the NHC and have a few questions. Sorry if these have been aired before, but I haven’t been able to track down any definitive answers. I’m using v2.17.1 with NHC socring in internal mode.

  1. I had assumed that NewRating column would show the rating to be applied to the next race in the series. However it seems to be the rating at the end of all sailed races in the series and so displays the same value for all races. Is that correct and, if so, is there any way of displaying the new rating calculated at the end of each race?
  1. By trial and error, I’ve discovered that there needs to be one more race in the series than actually sailed. As this is left as unsailed, it does not affect the results, but is this the correct workaround?
  1. If there are only two boats in a race, the ratings do not seem to be updated although in the RYA documentation I don’t see any reason why this should be so. Is this behaviour correct?

Thanks

Malcolm

Jon Eskdale
07976 709777

Skype “eskdale”

3

Hi Jon

Thanks for the quick and useful reply.

  1. I’ve downloaded the latest version of SWHelper.exe and the behaviour is the same. Looking on the web at published results from other clubs, I haven’t seen any example where the displayed NewRating does change from race to race, although NHC1 does change. Many published results don’t show this column, so perhaps I should also hide it.

  2. Fine

  3. I guess it makes sense not to change the ratings unless at least 3 boats compete, although in the RYA document “NHC Results Software Calculations 2014” I didn’t see any mention of that.

Malcolm

4

Hi Malcom,

Would you like to send me your blw file so I can check it out. Does the column reflect the value in the rating for the next race? If you have excel and use external mode is this the same?

It was added later to the instructions

Jon

···

On 10 May 2015 at 14:36, malcolmstewart116@yahoo.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Hi Jon

Thanks for the quick and useful reply.

  1. I’ve downloaded the latest version of SWHelper.exe and the behaviour is the same. Looking on the web at published results from other clubs, I haven’t seen any example where the displayed NewRating does change from race to race, although NHC1 does change. Many published results don’t show this column, so perhaps I should also hide it.
  1. Fine
  1. I guess it makes sense not to change the ratings unless at least 3 boats compete, although in the RYA document “NHC Results Software Calculations 2014” I didn’t see any mention of that.

Malcolm

Jon Eskdale
07976 709777

Skype “eskdale”

5

Hi Jon

Here is the test.blw file I have been using.

When you say it was added later to the instructions, I haven’t found these on the RYA website - latest version seems to be 2014. It’s not really important, but out of interest I would like to see the latest description of the RYA’s instructions.

Thanks

Malcolm

6

Hi Malcolm,

Your test file seems to be working in that the NewRating column is matching the rating for the next race.

If as an example you delete Race 2 and rescore the NewRating column changes to reflect the correct ratings.

I’m at the Eric Twiname event at Rutland at the moment doing the results - just finished and about to head home.

Give me a call on 03333443377 after between 9pm and midnight tonight if you want to discuss or when convenient.

or if you email me jon@sailwave.com with your number I’ll give you a call.

Yes I would like to see more documentation on NHC from the RYA - I have it in an email but I don’t think they have updated their documentation to reflect it.

If you have one or two it finishers it doesn’t work it just sets their rating to the base rating.

There is a version 2015 but I have not released it due to their documentation not matching their example and at extremes their spec for 2015 version even takes the ratings the wrong way,

There is an excel Template for Sailwave that works out the 2015 version if you want to play with it but as it stands I’m not happy to release it for general use.

Jon

···

On 10 May 2015 at 15:12, malcolmstewart116@yahoo.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Hi Jon

Here is the test.blw file I have been using.

When you say it was added later to the instructions, I haven’t found these on the RYA website - latest version seems to be 2014. It’s not really important, but out of interest I would like to see the latest description of the RYA’s instructions.

Thanks

Malcolm

Jon Eskdale
07976 709777

Skype “eskdale”

7

Good Afternoon Jon,
Thanks for these replies on NHC and all the work you put into sailwave.
I brought up the issue of ratings remaining unchanged if only 2 boats sailed and finished with you last year. I agree with Malcolm and I can't find this in the RYA document anywhere. If the RYA tell you that 3 boats are needed not sure why they don't tell everyone else. It was a contentious issue in my club last year.
Would if be an option in the NHC tab that when Internal mode is selected that a minimum number of boats could also be selected.
best Regards
Dave Vinnell
Galway Bay Sailing Club

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com [sailwave]" <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 2:42:08 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC Questions

Hi Malcom,

Would you like to send me your blw file so I can check it out. Does the column reflect the value in the rating for the next race? If you have excel and use external mode is this the same?

It was added later to the instructions

Jon

Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype "eskdale"

On 10 May 2015 at 14:36, malcolmstewart116@yahoo.com [sailwave] < sailwave@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

Hi Jon

Thanks for the quick and useful reply.

1. I've downloaded the latest version of SWHelper.exe and the behaviour is the same. Looking on the web at published results from other clubs, I haven't seen any example where the displayed NewRating does change from race to race, although NHC1 does change. Many published results don't show this column, so perhaps I should also hide it.

2. Fine

3. I guess it makes sense not to change the ratings unless at least 3 boats compete, although in the RYA document "NHC Results Software Calculations 2014" I didn't see any mention of that.

Malcolm

8

Hi Dave,

The problem is the NHC2014 algorithm realigns only the boats that have sailed, which leads to issues when only part of the fleet sail. The RYA have specified a minimum of 3 before adjustments are made but in my opinion it is really an issue if only a small proportion sail. They have addressed this issue in the 2015 spec by making all boats realign after each race, but have created some other issues. What we need really is the RYA to get the specification clear and debugged. Perhaps some emails from users to technical@rya.org.uk may prompt them!!

As you seem to be aware with the Excel template (External) mode you can specify the minimum number. If you experiment with this then you will find that it really doesn’t work at all if you go below 3

It is already possible to configure the internal to use a different number of finishers (Although I’ve not published it previously as the RYA want to discourage using non standard parameters) To do this you need to create a file SWHelper.ini and place it in the same directory as SWHelper.exe

The file should contain

[Parameters]

AdjustP = 0.30

AdjustPX = 0.15

AdjustN = 0.15

AdjustNX = 0.075

SD_Over = 1.50

SD_Under = 1.00

MinFin = 3

You can omit the lines you don’t want to change

MinFin is the parameter you want to change in this case

Let me know how you get on.

Jon

Jon

···

On 11 May 2015 at 14:29, davenow@eircom.net [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Good Afternoon Jon,
Thanks for these replies on NHC and all the work you put into sailwave.
I brought up the issue of ratings remaining unchanged if only 2 boats sailed and finished with you last year. I agree with Malcolm and I can’t find this in the RYA document anywhere. If the RYA tell you that 3 boats are needed not sure why they don’t tell everyone else. It was a contentious issue in my club last year.
Would if be an option in the NHC tab that when Internal mode is selected that a minimum number of boats could also be selected.
best Regards
Dave Vinnell
Galway Bay Sailing Club

----- Original Message -----

From: “Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com [sailwave]” sailwave@yahoogroups.com

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 2:42:08 PM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC Questions

Hi Malcom,

Would you like to send me your blw file so I can check it out. Does the column reflect the value in the rating for the next race? If you have excel and use external mode is this the same?

It was added later to the instructions

Jon

Jon Eskdale

07976 709777

Skype “eskdale”

On 10 May 2015 at 14:36, malcolmstewart116@yahoo.com [sailwave] < sailwave@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

Hi Jon

Thanks for the quick and useful reply.

  1. I’ve downloaded the latest version of SWHelper.exe and the behaviour is the same. Looking on the web at published results from other clubs, I haven’t seen any example where the displayed NewRating does change from race to race, although NHC1 does change. Many published results don’t show this column, so perhaps I should also hide it.

  2. Fine

  3. I guess it makes sense not to change the ratings unless at least 3 boats compete, although in the RYA document “NHC Results Software Calculations 2014” I didn’t see any mention of that.

Malcolm

Jon Eskdale
07976 709777

Skype “eskdale”

9

Good Afternoon Jon,
Thanks for your very prompt and comprehensive response.
I'll try your suggestion later this week and will also send mail to RYA on the issue.
Best regards
Dave Vinnell
GBSC

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com [sailwave]" <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 11 May, 2015 2:56:10 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC Questions

Hi Dave,

The problem is the NHC2014 algorithm realigns only the boats that have sailed, which leads to issues when only part of the fleet sail. The RYA have specified a minimum of 3 before adjustments are made but in my opinion it is really an issue if only a small proportion sail. They have addressed this issue in the 2015 spec by making all boats realign after each race, but have created some other issues. What we need really is the RYA to get the specification clear and debugged. Perhaps some emails from users to technical@rya.org.uk may prompt them!!

As you seem to be aware with the Excel template (External) mode you can specify the minimum number. If you experiment with this then you will find that it really doesn't work at all if you go below 3

It is already possible to configure the internal to use a different number of finishers (Although I've not published it previously as the RYA want to discourage using non standard parameters) To do this you need to create a file SWHelper.ini and place it in the same directory as SWHelper.exe
The file should contain
[Parameters]

AdjustP = 0.30
AdjustPX = 0.15
AdjustN = 0.15
AdjustNX = 0.075
SD_Over = 1.50
SD_Under = 1.00
MinFin = 3

You can omit the lines you don't want to change
MinFin is the parameter you want to change in this case

Let me know how you get on.

Jon

Jon

Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype "eskdale"

On 11 May 2015 at 14:29, davenow@eircom.net [sailwave] < sailwave@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

Good Afternoon Jon,
Thanks for these replies on NHC and all the work you put into sailwave.
I brought up the issue of ratings remaining unchanged if only 2 boats sailed and finished with you last year. I agree with Malcolm and I can't find this in the RYA document anywhere. If the RYA tell you that 3 boats are needed not sure why they don't tell everyone else. It was a contentious issue in my club last year.
Would if be an option in the NHC tab that when Internal mode is selected that a minimum number of boats could also be selected.
best Regards
Dave Vinnell
Galway Bay Sailing Club

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com [sailwave]" < sailwave@yahoogroups.com >
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 2:42:08 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC Questions

Hi Malcom,

Would you like to send me your blw file so I can check it out. Does the column reflect the value in the rating for the next race? If you have excel and use external mode is this the same?

It was added later to the instructions

Jon

Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype "eskdale"

On 10 May 2015 at 14:36, malcolmstewart116@yahoo.com [sailwave] < sailwave@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

Hi Jon

Thanks for the quick and useful reply.

1. I've downloaded the latest version of SWHelper.exe and the behaviour is the same. Looking on the web at published results from other clubs, I haven't seen any example where the displayed NewRating does change from race to race, although NHC1 does change. Many published results don't show this column, so perhaps I should also hide it.

2. Fine

3. I guess it makes sense not to change the ratings unless at least 3 boats compete, although in the RYA document "NHC Results Software Calculations 2014" I didn't see any mention of that.

Malcolm

10

Would someone enlighten me about where to find the “NewRating” column that Malcolm mentioned in his post? I have looked at his test find and I don’t see it, nor does it appear to be one of the named columns. I would like to post a competitor lost showing the rating for the next race.

Sorry for the newbie question…

Steve

···

Sent from my iPad

On May 11, 2015, at 9:22 AM, davenow@eircom.net [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Good Afternoon Jon,
Thanks for your very prompt and comprehensive response.
I’ll try your suggestion later this week and will also send mail to RYA on the issue.
Best regards
Dave Vinnell
GBSC
----- Original Message -----
From: “Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com [sailwave]” sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 11 May, 2015 2:56:10 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC Questions

Hi Dave,

The problem is the NHC2014 algorithm realigns only the boats that have sailed, which leads to issues when only part of the fleet sail. The RYA have specified a minimum of 3 before adjustments are made but in my opinion it is really an issue if only a small proportion sail. They have addressed this issue in the 2015 spec by making all boats realign after each race, but have created some other issues. What we need really is the RYA to get the specification clear and debugged. Perhaps some emails from users to technical@rya.org.uk may prompt them!!

As you seem to be aware with the Excel template (External) mode you can specify the minimum number. If you experiment with this then you will find that it really doesn’t work at all if you go below 3

It is already possible to configure the internal to use a different number of finishers (Although I’ve not published it previously as the RYA want to discourage using non standard parameters) To do this you need to create a file SWHelper.ini and place it in the same directory as SWHelper.exe
The file should contain
[Parameters]

AdjustP = 0.30
AdjustPX = 0.15
AdjustN = 0.15
AdjustNX = 0.075
SD_Over = 1.50
SD_Under = 1.00
MinFin = 3

You can omit the lines you don’t want to change
MinFin is the parameter you want to change in this case

Let me know how you get on.

Jon

Jon

Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype “eskdale”

On 11 May 2015 at 14:29, davenow@eircom.net [sailwave] < sailwave@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

Good Afternoon Jon,
Thanks for these replies on NHC and all the work you put into sailwave.
I brought up the issue of ratings remaining unchanged if only 2 boats sailed and finished with you last year. I agree with Malcolm and I can’t find this in the RYA document anywhere. If the RYA tell you that 3 boats are needed not sure why they don’t tell everyone else. It was a contentious issue in my club last year.
Would if be an option in the NHC tab that when Internal mode is selected that a minimum number of boats could also be selected.
best Regards
Dave Vinnell
Galway Bay Sailing Club

----- Original Message -----
From: “Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com [sailwave]” < sailwave@yahoogroups.com >
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 2:42:08 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC Questions

Hi Malcom,

Would you like to send me your blw file so I can check it out. Does the column reflect the value in the rating for the next race? If you have excel and use external mode is this the same?

It was added later to the instructions

Jon

Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype “eskdale”

On 10 May 2015 at 14:36, malcolmstewart116@yahoo.com [sailwave] < sailwave@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

Hi Jon

Thanks for the quick and useful reply.

  1. I’ve downloaded the latest version of SWHelper.exe and the behaviour is the same. Looking on the web at published results from other clubs, I haven’t seen any example where the displayed NewRating does change from race to race, although NHC1 does change. Many published results don’t show this column, so perhaps I should also hide it.

  2. Fine

  3. I guess it makes sense not to change the ratings unless at least 3 boats compete, although in the RYA document “NHC Results Software Calculations 2014” I didn’t see any mention of that.

Malcolm

11

Hi Steve,

If you don’t see it then its probably because you are using an earlier version of Sailwave - You need to download version 2.17 from the Beta section of the downloads, There are instructions there also.

Jon

···

On 11 May 2015 at 17:41, Steve Dahlstrom sdahlstrom@ymail.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Would someone enlighten me about where to find the “NewRating” column that Malcolm mentioned in his post? I have looked at his test find and I don’t see it, nor does it appear to be one of the named columns. I would like to post a competitor lost showing the rating for the next race.

Sorry for the newbie question…

Steve

Sent from my iPad

On May 11, 2015, at 9:22 AM, davenow@eircom.net [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Good Afternoon Jon,
Thanks for your very prompt and comprehensive response.
I’ll try your suggestion later this week and will also send mail to RYA on the issue.
Best regards
Dave Vinnell
GBSC
----- Original Message -----
From: “Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com [sailwave]” sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 11 May, 2015 2:56:10 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC Questions

Hi Dave,

The problem is the NHC2014 algorithm realigns only the boats that have sailed, which leads to issues when only part of the fleet sail. The RYA have specified a minimum of 3 before adjustments are made but in my opinion it is really an issue if only a small proportion sail. They have addressed this issue in the 2015 spec by making all boats realign after each race, but have created some other issues. What we need really is the RYA to get the specification clear and debugged. Perhaps some emails from users to technical@rya.org.uk may prompt them!!

As you seem to be aware with the Excel template (External) mode you can specify the minimum number. If you experiment with this then you will find that it really doesn’t work at all if you go below 3

It is already possible to configure the internal to use a different number of finishers (Although I’ve not published it previously as the RYA want to discourage using non standard parameters) To do this you need to create a file SWHelper.ini and place it in the same directory as SWHelper.exe
The file should contain
[Parameters]

AdjustP = 0.30
AdjustPX = 0.15
AdjustN = 0.15
AdjustNX = 0.075
SD_Over = 1.50
SD_Under = 1.00
MinFin = 3

You can omit the lines you don’t want to change
MinFin is the parameter you want to change in this case

Let me know how you get on.

Jon

Jon

Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype “eskdale”

On 11 May 2015 at 14:29, davenow@eircom.net [sailwave] < sailwave@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

Good Afternoon Jon,
Thanks for these replies on NHC and all the work you put into sailwave.
I brought up the issue of ratings remaining unchanged if only 2 boats sailed and finished with you last year. I agree with Malcolm and I can’t find this in the RYA document anywhere. If the RYA tell you that 3 boats are needed not sure why they don’t tell everyone else. It was a contentious issue in my club last year.
Would if be an option in the NHC tab that when Internal mode is selected that a minimum number of boats could also be selected.
best Regards
Dave Vinnell
Galway Bay Sailing Club

----- Original Message -----
From: “Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com [sailwave]” < sailwave@yahoogroups.com >
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 2:42:08 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC Questions

Hi Malcom,

Would you like to send me your blw file so I can check it out. Does the column reflect the value in the rating for the next race? If you have excel and use external mode is this the same?

It was added later to the instructions

Jon

Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype “eskdale”

On 10 May 2015 at 14:36, malcolmstewart116@yahoo.com [sailwave] < sailwave@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

Hi Jon

Thanks for the quick and useful reply.

  1. I’ve downloaded the latest version of SWHelper.exe and the behaviour is the same. Looking on the web at published results from other clubs, I haven’t seen any example where the displayed NewRating does change from race to race, although NHC1 does change. Many published results don’t show this column, so perhaps I should also hide it.

  2. Fine

  3. I guess it makes sense not to change the ratings unless at least 3 boats compete, although in the RYA document “NHC Results Software Calculations 2014” I didn’t see any mention of that.

Malcolm

Jon Eskdale
07976 709777

Skype “eskdale”

12

Hi Steve,

Welcome to the SUG.

Which version of Sailwave do you have? As you may have an older

version which does not support NHC, you need at least version 2.9.7.
But preferable the latest available version together with the
updated SWHelper file. Note version 2.9.7 does not not have the
‘NewRating’ field/column this came in a later version 2.17.0.

If you have have a version which can show the column then you would

have to make it visible as it is by default not shown.

Kind regards,
Huw
···

On 11/05/2015 17:41, Steve Dahlstrom
[sailwave] wrote:

sdahlstrom@ymail.com

          Would someone enlighten me about where to find the

“NewRating” column that Malcolm mentioned in his post? I
have looked at his test find and I don’t see it, nor does
it appear to be one of the named columns. I would like to
post a competitor lost showing the rating for the next
race.

Sorry for the newbie question…

Steve

          Sent from my iPad

          On May 11, 2015, at 9:22 AM, davenow@eircom.net
          [sailwave] <sailwave@yahoogroups.com              >

wrote:

                Good Afternoon Jon,
                Thanks for your very prompt and comprehensive

response.
I’ll try your suggestion later this week and will
also send mail to RYA on the issue.
Best regards
Dave Vinnell
GBSC
----- Original Message -----
From: “Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com
[sailwave]” sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 11 May, 2015 2:56:10 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC Questions

                Hi Dave,

                The problem is the NHC2014 algorithm realigns only

the boats that have sailed, which leads to issues
when only part of the fleet sail. The RYA have
specified a minimum of 3 before adjustments are made
but in my opinion it is really an issue if only a
small proportion sail. They have addressed this
issue in the 2015 spec by making all boats realign
after each race, but have created some other issues.
What we need really is the RYA to get the
specification clear and debugged. Perhaps some
emails from users to technical@rya.org.uk
may prompt them!!

                As you seem to be aware with the Excel template

(External) mode you can specify the minimum number.
If you experiment with this then you will find that
it really doesn’t work at all if you go below 3

                It is already possible to configure the internal to

use a different number of finishers (Although I’ve
not published it previously as the RYA want to
discourage using non standard parameters) To do this
you need to create a file SWHelper.ini and place it
in the same directory as SWHelper.exe
The file should contain
[Parameters]

                AdjustP = 0.30
                AdjustPX = 0.15
                AdjustN = 0.15
                AdjustNX = 0.075
                SD_Over = 1.50
                SD_Under = 1.00
                MinFin = 3

                You can omit the lines you don't want to change
                MinFin is the parameter you want to change in this

case

                Let me know how you get on.

                Jon

                Jon

                Jon Eskdale
                07976 709777
                Skype "eskdale"

                On 11 May 2015 at 14:29, davenow@eircom.net
                [sailwave] < sailwave@yahoogroups.com
                > wrote:

                Good Afternoon Jon,
                Thanks for these replies on NHC and all the work you

put into sailwave.
I brought up the issue of ratings remaining
unchanged if only 2 boats sailed and finished with
you last year. I agree with Malcolm and I can’t find
this in the RYA document anywhere. If the RYA tell
you that 3 boats are needed not sure why they don’t
tell everyone else. It was a contentious issue in my
club last year.
Would if be an option in the NHC tab that when
Internal mode is selected that a minimum number of
boats could also be selected.
best Regards
Dave Vinnell
Galway Bay Sailing Club

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com
                [sailwave]" < sailwave@yahoogroups.com
                >
                To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

                Sent: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 2:42:08 PM
                Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC Questions

                Hi Malcom,

                Would you like to send me your blw file so I can

check it out. Does the column reflect the value in
the rating for the next race? If you have excel and
use external mode is this the same?

                It was added later to the instructions

                Jon

                Jon Eskdale
                07976 709777
                Skype "eskdale"

                On 10 May 2015 at 14:36, malcolmstewart116@yahoo.com
                [sailwave] < sailwave@yahoogroups.com
                > wrote:

                Hi Jon

                Thanks for the quick and useful reply.

                1. I've downloaded the latest version of

SWHelper.exe and the behaviour is the same. Looking
on the web at published results from other clubs, I
haven’t seen any example where the displayed
NewRating does change from race to race, although
NHC1 does change. Many published results don’t show
this column, so perhaps I should also hide it.

                2. Fine

                3. I guess it makes sense not to change the ratings

unless at least 3 boats compete, although in the RYA
document “NHC Results Software Calculations 2014” I
didn’t see any mention of that.

                Malcolm

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13

Thank for the welcome. I am on version 2.16.7. I believe that is the latest version available at Sailwave.com…

···

On 11/05/2015 17:41, Steve Dahlstrom
[sailwave] wrote:

sdahlstrom@ymail.com

          Would someone enlighten me about where to find the

“NewRating” column that Malcolm mentioned in his post? I
have looked at his test find and I don’t see it, nor does
it appear to be one of the named columns. I would like to
post a competitor lost showing the rating for the next
race.

Sorry for the newbie question…

Steve

          Sent from my iPad

          On May 11, 2015, at 9:22 AM, davenow@eircom.net
          [sailwave] <sailwave@yahoogroups.com              >

wrote:

                Good Afternoon Jon,
                Thanks for your very prompt and comprehensive

response.
I’ll try your suggestion later this week and will
also send mail to RYA on the issue.
Best regards
Dave Vinnell
GBSC
----- Original Message -----
From: “Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com
[sailwave]” sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 11 May, 2015 2:56:10 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC Questions

                Hi Dave,

                The problem is the NHC2014 algorithm realigns only

the boats that have sailed, which leads to issues
when only part of the fleet sail. The RYA have
specified a minimum of 3 before adjustments are made
but in my opinion it is really an issue if only a
small proportion sail. They have addressed this
issue in the 2015 spec by making all boats realign
after each race, but have created some other issues.
What we need really is the RYA to get the
specification clear and debugged. Perhaps some
emails from users to technical@rya.org.uk
may prompt them!!

                As you seem to be aware with the Excel template

(External) mode you can specify the minimum number.
If you experiment with this then you will find that
it really doesn’t work at all if you go below 3

                It is already possible to configure the internal to

use a different number of finishers (Although I’ve
not published it previously as the RYA want to
discourage using non standard parameters) To do this
you need to create a file SWHelper.ini and place it
in the same directory as SWHelper.exe
The file should contain
[Parameters]

                AdjustP = 0.30
                AdjustPX = 0.15
                AdjustN = 0.15
                AdjustNX = 0.075
                SD_Over = 1.50
                SD_Under = 1.00
                MinFin = 3

                You can omit the lines you don't want to change
                MinFin is the parameter you want to change in this

case

                Let me know how you get on.

                Jon


                Jon

                Jon Eskdale
                07976 709777
                Skype "eskdale"

                On 11 May 2015 at 14:29, davenow@eircom.net
                [sailwave] < sailwave@yahoogroups.com
                > wrote:

                Good Afternoon Jon,
                Thanks for these replies on NHC and all the work you

put into sailwave.
I brought up the issue of ratings remaining
unchanged if only 2 boats sailed and finished with
you last year. I agree with Malcolm and I can’t find
this in the RYA document anywhere. If the RYA tell
you that 3 boats are needed not sure why they don’t
tell everyone else. It was a contentious issue in my
club last year.

                Would if be an option in the NHC tab that when

Internal mode is selected that a minimum number of
boats could also be selected.
best Regards
Dave Vinnell
Galway Bay Sailing Club

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com
                [sailwave]" < sailwave@yahoogroups.com
                >
                To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

                Sent: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 2:42:08 PM
                Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC Questions

                Hi Malcom,

                Would you like to send me your blw file so I can

check it out. Does the column reflect the value in
the rating for the next race? If you have excel and
use external mode is this the same?

                It was added later to the instructions

                Jon

                Jon Eskdale
                07976 709777
                Skype "eskdale"

                On 10 May 2015 at 14:36, malcolmstewart116@yahoo.com

                [sailwave] < sailwave@yahoogroups.com
                > wrote:

                Hi Jon

                Thanks for the quick and useful reply.

                1. I've downloaded the latest version of

SWHelper.exe and the behaviour is the same. Looking
on the web at published results from other clubs, I
haven’t seen any example where the displayed
NewRating does change from race to race, although
NHC1 does change. Many published results don’t show
this column, so perhaps I should also hide it.

                2. Fine

                3. I guess it makes sense not to change the ratings

unless at least 3 boats compete, although in the RYA
document “NHC Results Software Calculations 2014” I
didn’t see any mention of that.

                Malcolm

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14

Hi Steve

As per my earlier post you need to be on 2.17 or later for the new rating column. This is available in the Beta section of the downloads and there are instructions there also

Jon

···

On 11 May 2015 at 18:38, Steve Dahlstrom sdahlstrom@ymail.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Thank for the welcome. I am on version 2.16.7. I believe that is the latest version available at Sailwave.com…

Sent from my iPhone

On May 11, 2015, at 10:18 AM, “Huw Pearce huw.pearce@bcs.org.uk [sailwave]” sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Hi Steve,

Welcome to the SUG.

Which version of Sailwave do you have? As you may have an older

version which does not support NHC, you need at least version 2.9.7.
But preferable the latest available version together with the
updated SWHelper file. Note version 2.9.7 does not not have the
‘NewRating’ field/column this came in a later version 2.17.0.

If you have have a version which can show the column then you would

have to make it visible as it is by default not shown.

Kind regards,
Huw

  On 11/05/2015 17:41, Steve Dahlstrom

sdahlstrom@ymail.com [sailwave] wrote:

          Would someone enlighten me about where to find the

“NewRating” column that Malcolm mentioned in his post? I
have looked at his test find and I don’t see it, nor does
it appear to be one of the named columns. I would like to
post a competitor lost showing the rating for the next
race.

Sorry for the newbie question…

Steve

          Sent from my iPad

          On May 11, 2015, at 9:22 AM, davenow@eircom.net
          [sailwave] <sailwave@yahoogroups.com              >

wrote:

                Good Afternoon Jon,
                Thanks for your very prompt and comprehensive

response.
I’ll try your suggestion later this week and will
also send mail to RYA on the issue.
Best regards
Dave Vinnell
GBSC
----- Original Message -----
From: “Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com
[sailwave]” sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 11 May, 2015 2:56:10 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC Questions

                Hi Dave,

                The problem is the NHC2014 algorithm realigns only

the boats that have sailed, which leads to issues
when only part of the fleet sail. The RYA have
specified a minimum of 3 before adjustments are made
but in my opinion it is really an issue if only a
small proportion sail. They have addressed this
issue in the 2015 spec by making all boats realign
after each race, but have created some other issues.
What we need really is the RYA to get the
specification clear and debugged. Perhaps some
emails from users to technical@rya.org.uk
may prompt them!!

                As you seem to be aware with the Excel template

(External) mode you can specify the minimum number.
If you experiment with this then you will find that
it really doesn’t work at all if you go below 3

                It is already possible to configure the internal to

use a different number of finishers (Although I’ve
not published it previously as the RYA want to
discourage using non standard parameters) To do this
you need to create a file SWHelper.ini and place it
in the same directory as SWHelper.exe
The file should contain
[Parameters]

                AdjustP = 0.30
                AdjustPX = 0.15
                AdjustN = 0.15
                AdjustNX = 0.075
                SD_Over = 1.50
                SD_Under = 1.00
                MinFin = 3

                You can omit the lines you don't want to change
                MinFin is the parameter you want to change in this

case

                Let me know how you get on.

                Jon


                Jon

                Jon Eskdale
                07976 709777
                Skype "eskdale"

                On 11 May 2015 at 14:29, davenow@eircom.net
                [sailwave] < sailwave@yahoogroups.com
                > wrote:

                Good Afternoon Jon,
                Thanks for these replies on NHC and all the work you

put into sailwave.
I brought up the issue of ratings remaining
unchanged if only 2 boats sailed and finished with
you last year. I agree with Malcolm and I can’t find
this in the RYA document anywhere. If the RYA tell
you that 3 boats are needed not sure why they don’t
tell everyone else. It was a contentious issue in my
club last year.

                Would if be an option in the NHC tab that when

Internal mode is selected that a minimum number of
boats could also be selected.
best Regards
Dave Vinnell
Galway Bay Sailing Club

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com
                [sailwave]" < sailwave@yahoogroups.com
                >
                To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

                Sent: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 2:42:08 PM
                Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC Questions

                Hi Malcom,

                Would you like to send me your blw file so I can

check it out. Does the column reflect the value in
the rating for the next race? If you have excel and
use external mode is this the same?

                It was added later to the instructions

                Jon

                Jon Eskdale
                07976 709777
                Skype "eskdale"

                On 10 May 2015 at 14:36, malcolmstewart116@yahoo.com

                [sailwave] < sailwave@yahoogroups.com
                > wrote:

                Hi Jon

                Thanks for the quick and useful reply.

                1. I've downloaded the latest version of

SWHelper.exe and the behaviour is the same. Looking
on the web at published results from other clubs, I
haven’t seen any example where the displayed
NewRating does change from race to race, although
NHC1 does change. Many published results don’t show
this column, so perhaps I should also hide it.

                2. Fine

                3. I guess it makes sense not to change the ratings

unless at least 3 boats compete, although in the RYA
document “NHC Results Software Calculations 2014” I
didn’t see any mention of that.

                Malcolm

Avast logo 

            This email has been checked for

viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com


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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.

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Jon Eskdale
07976 709777

Skype “eskdale”

15

Hi Jon

Sorry I wasn’t able to get back to you yesterday. Attached is the HTML ile from the test.blw file I sent a few days ago. I would expect NewRating from one race to be the same value as NHC1 for the next race, but it looks like the displayed NewRating for all the races is the value calculated in the last race. I suspect this is only a data presentation issue.

Thanks

Malcolm

16

Hi Malcom,

I can see where the misunderstanding is. NewRating is the rating that will be used for the next race in the series which hasn’t yet been scored. It does not apply to historic races.

This is not necessary because you can publish these races and show the rating used. The concept of the NewRating is to be able to display to the sailors what rating will be used for the next race which hasn’t been sailed as yet.

NewRating applies to the competitor so there can only be one NewRating per competitor, where as rating applies to each race. NewRating gets changed when a series is scored.

Hope this helps

Jon

···

On 11 May 2015 at 23:46, malcolmstewart116@yahoo.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Hi Jon

Sorry I wasn’t able to get back to you yesterday. Attached is the HTML ile from the test.blw file I sent a few days ago. I would expect NewRating from one race to be the same value as NHC1 for the next race, but it looks like the displayed NewRating for all the races is the value calculated in the last race. I suspect this is only a data presentation issue.

Thanks

Malcolm

Jon Eskdale
07976 709777

Skype “eskdale”

17

Hi Jon

Thanks for the explanation - it all makes sense now, though future misunderstandings might be prevented if the displayed NewRating value was left blank for all but the last race or if it reflected its value at the end of each race. Thanks for all the good work.

Malcolm

18

Good Afternoon Jon,
Thanks I used the internal HNC option with the modified SWHelper.ini to allow for only 2 boats and that looks to work well.
The sailors are happy, if the win they expect their rating to go up and down if the don't at that's what its now doing with just the two boats.
best regards
Dave Vinnell
GBSC

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "davenow@eircom.net [sailwave]" <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 11 May, 2015 5:22:01 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC Questions

Good Afternoon Jon,
Thanks for your very prompt and comprehensive response.
I'll try your suggestion later this week and will also send mail to RYA on the issue.
Best regards
Dave Vinnell
GBSC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com [sailwave]" <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 11 May, 2015 2:56:10 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC Questions

Hi Dave,

The problem is the NHC2014 algorithm realigns only the boats that have sailed, which leads to issues when only part of the fleet sail. The RYA have specified a minimum of 3 before adjustments are made but in my opinion it is really an issue if only a small proportion sail. They have addressed this issue in the 2015 spec by making all boats realign after each race, but have created some other issues. What we need really is the RYA to get the specification clear and debugged. Perhaps some emails from users to technical@rya.org.uk may prompt them!!

As you seem to be aware with the Excel template (External) mode you can specify the minimum number. If you experiment with this then you will find that it really doesn't work at all if you go below 3

It is already possible to configure the internal to use a different number of finishers (Although I've not published it previously as the RYA want to discourage using non standard parameters) To do this you need to create a file SWHelper.ini and place it in the same directory as SWHelper.exe
The file should contain
[Parameters]

AdjustP = 0.30
AdjustPX = 0.15
AdjustN = 0.15
AdjustNX = 0.075
SD_Over = 1.50
SD_Under = 1.00
MinFin = 3

You can omit the lines you don't want to change
MinFin is the parameter you want to change in this case

Let me know how you get on.

Jon

Jon

Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype "eskdale"

On 11 May 2015 at 14:29, davenow@eircom.net [sailwave] < sailwave@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

Good Afternoon Jon,
Thanks for these replies on NHC and all the work you put into sailwave.
I brought up the issue of ratings remaining unchanged if only 2 boats sailed and finished with you last year. I agree with Malcolm and I can't find this in the RYA document anywhere. If the RYA tell you that 3 boats are needed not sure why they don't tell everyone else. It was a contentious issue in my club last year.
Would if be an option in the NHC tab that when Internal mode is selected that a minimum number of boats could also be selected.
best Regards
Dave Vinnell
Galway Bay Sailing Club

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Eskdale jon@sailwave.com [sailwave]" < sailwave@yahoogroups.com >
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 10 May, 2015 2:42:08 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC Questions

Hi Malcom,

Would you like to send me your blw file so I can check it out. Does the column reflect the value in the rating for the next race? If you have excel and use external mode is this the same?

It was added later to the instructions

Jon

Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype "eskdale"

On 10 May 2015 at 14:36, malcolmstewart116@yahoo.com [sailwave] < sailwave@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

Hi Jon

Thanks for the quick and useful reply.

1. I've downloaded the latest version of SWHelper.exe and the behaviour is the same. Looking on the web at published results from other clubs, I haven't seen any example where the displayed NewRating does change from race to race, although NHC1 does change. Many published results don't show this column, so perhaps I should also hide it.

2. Fine

3. I guess it makes sense not to change the ratings unless at least 3 boats compete, although in the RYA document "NHC Results Software Calculations 2014" I didn't see any mention of that.

Malcolm