NHC TCF missing yachts

Imported from Yahoo
1

Hi all.

Have sent RYA technical the same question but response is slow in arriving.

Does anyone have experience using NHC TCFs for the following:

Ricochet-940, 2002

http://www.ricochet.ru/en/rikoshet-940.html

F28R Corsair Trimaran

https://www.boat-specs.com/corsair/corsair-f28-r

Any thoughts welcome.

Andy Chapman

Dubai Offshore Sailing Club
Keelboat Member

2

If it helps

I have a few boats that I could get not NHC values for. I set NHC to 1.0; they self corrected quickly by the 2nd race.

···

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Keelboat Member - DOSC keelboat@doscuae.com [sailwave]
Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 11:59 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] NHC TCF missing yachts

Hi all.

Have sent RYA technical the same question but response is slow in arriving.

Does anyone have experience using NHC TCFs for the following:

Ricochet-940, 2002

http://www.ricochet.ru/en/rikoshet-940.html

F28R Corsair Trimaran

https://www.boat-specs.com/corsair/corsair-f28-r

Any thoughts welcome.

Andy Chapman

Dubai Offshore Sailing Club
Keelboat Member

3

Hi Andy,

I think RYA will not be able to answer your question.

The reason being the NHC is designed to be used in your fleet with the actual performance of an individual boat in its current setup and crew against the mean of fleet. If you take that boat and put it in a different fleet it will require a new NHC rating. If the boat and crew perform above their normal they will be ranked highly in that race and may even win.

The system I use is to convert the published ratings to a TCF rating and use that as the starting point. For example a Laser full rig has VYC of 114 and a Laser Radial has a VYC of 118.8. this would convert to 0.877 for the full rig and 0.844 for the Radial. I then use this as a starting rating, as the differing speeds of the boats has been removed leaving the quality of the equipment and the crew as the variables.

If there is published rating on the boats in your fleet, or you have actual data on the performance of the boats in question you should be able to to calculate a starting rating.

It is common to see a performance difference of 15% to 20% between the quickest boat and the slowest boats in a fleet. So if you have someone who is clearly a beginner you could allow then a further 10% or so. Remember the bigger the TCF the faster the boat.

As another responder has mentioned the system self-adjusts. I think you need at least 5 races to get the system to start getting close to an accurate figure for the boat in question.

From a quick look at the specifications of the 2 boats in question I would expect 1 would be much quicker than the other, so should have a differing starting ratings.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards JohnL.

···

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 1:22 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] NHC TCF missing yachts

Hi all.

Have sent RYA technical the same question but response is slow in arriving.

Does anyone have experience using NHC TCFs for the following:

Ricochet-940, 2002

http://www.ricochet.ru/en/rikoshet-940.html

F28R Corsair Trimaran

https://www.boat-specs.com/corsair/corsair-f28-r

Any thoughts welcome.

Andy Chapman

Dubai Offshore Sailing Club
Keelboat Member

4

Ha. Thanks. I assigned a couple that last year and lord did they complain. Having said that it did settle out pretty quickly you are right.

Andy

Dubai Offshore Sailing Club
Keelboat Member
+971501678018

···

On Tue, 2 Oct. 2018, 21:06 Kirk Robertson jkirkrobertson@gmail.com [sailwave], sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:

If it helps

I have a few boats that I could get not NHC values for. I set NHC to 1.0; they self corrected quickly by the 2nd race.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Keelboat Member - DOSC keelboat@doscuae.com [sailwave]
Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 11:59 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] NHC TCF missing yachts

Hi all.

Have sent RYA technical the same question but response is slow in arriving.

Does anyone have experience using NHC TCFs for the following:

Ricochet-940, 2002

http://www.ricochet.ru/en/rikoshet-940.html

F28R Corsair Trimaran

https://www.boat-specs.com/corsair/corsair-f28-r

Any thoughts welcome.

Andy Chapman

Dubai Offshore Sailing Club
Keelboat Member

5

Thanks JohnL.

Someone sent me a PHRF rating for one of them so I will convert that to NHC for a start.

The other I do have past history on so will look for a good average.

Thaks for the info %s and how long it takes to settle. I am mostly IRC background so this is new.

Andy

···

On Wed, 3 Oct. 2018, 01:39 ‘JohnL’ jladewig@tpg.com.au [sailwave], sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Hi Andy,

I think RYA will not be able to answer your question.

The reason being the NHC is designed to be used in your fleet with the actual performance of an individual boat in its current setup and crew against the mean of fleet. If you take that boat and put it in a different fleet it will require a new NHC rating. If the boat and crew perform above their normal they will be ranked highly in that race and may even win.

The system I use is to convert the published ratings to a TCF rating and use that as the starting point. For example a Laser full rig has VYC of 114 and a Laser Radial has a VYC of 118.8. this would convert to 0.877 for the full rig and 0.844 for the Radial. I then use this as a starting rating, as the differing speeds of the boats has been removed leaving the quality of the equipment and the crew as the variables.

If there is published rating on the boats in your fleet, or you have actual data on the performance of the boats in question you should be able to to calculate a starting rating.

It is common to see a performance difference of 15% to 20% between the quickest boat and the slowest boats in a fleet. So if you have someone who is clearly a beginner you could allow then a further 10% or so. Remember the bigger the TCF the faster the boat.

As another responder has mentioned the system self-adjusts. I think you need at least 5 races to get the system to start getting close to an accurate figure for the boat in question.

From a quick look at the specifications of the 2 boats in question I would expect 1 would be much quicker than the other, so should have a differing starting ratings…

I hope this helps.

Kind regards JohnL.

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 1:22 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] NHC TCF missing yachts

Hi all.

Have sent RYA technical the same question but response is slow in arriving.

Does anyone have experience using NHC TCFs for the following:

Ricochet-940, 2002

http://www.ricochet.ru/en/rikoshet-940.html

F28R Corsair Trimaran

https://www.boat-specs.com/corsair/corsair-f28-r

Any thoughts welcome.

Andy Chapman

Dubai Offshore Sailing Club
Keelboat Member

6

Hi John,

  The RYA should be able to help Andy as they publish a list of

base NHC ratings available as list in spreadsheet format [].
Additionally if a set of appropriate measurements are provided /
available for a class / type of boat not in the published list,
the RYA can calculate a a base rating.

  You are not correct in stating that if a particular boat is taken

and put with a different group of boats it will require a new NHC
rating. It will start in the new group with the published or
calculated NHC base rating value. The change in rating from race
to race will be calculated for the boat in the new fleet.

Kind regards,

Huw

···

https://www.rya.org.uk/racing/Pages/nhc.aspx
On 02/10/2018 22:39, ‘JohnL’
[sailwave] wrote:

jladewig@tpg.com.au

Hi Andy,

              I think RYA

will not be able to answer your question.

              The reason

being the NHC is designed to be used in your fleet
with the actual performance of an individual boat in
its current setup and crew against the mean of fleet.
If you take that boat and put it in a different fleet
it will require a new NHC rating. If the boat and
crew perform above their normal they will be ranked
highly in that race and may even win.

              The system I

use is to convert the published ratings to a TCF
rating and use that as the starting point. For
example a Laser full rig has VYC of 114 and a Laser
Radial has a VYC of 118.8. this would convert to 0.877
for the full rig and 0.844 for the Radial. I then
use this as a starting rating, as the differing speeds
of the boats has been removed leaving the quality of
the equipment and the crew as the variables.

              If there is

published rating on the boats in your fleet, or you
have actual data on the performance of the boats in
question you should be able to to calculate a starting
rating.

              It is common

to see a performance difference of 15% to 20% between
the quickest boat and the slowest boats in a fleet.
So if you have someone who is clearly a beginner you
could allow then a further 10% or so. Remember the
bigger the TCF the faster the boat.

              As another

responder has mentioned the system self-adjusts. I
think you need at least 5 races to get the system to
start getting close to an accurate figure for the boat
in question.

              From a quick

look at the specifications of the 2 boats in question
I would expect 1 would be much quicker than the other,
so should have a differing starting ratings…

              I hope this

helps.

              Kind regards

JohnL.

From:

                  [] Wednesday, 3 October 2018 1:22 AM

[sailwave] NHC TCF missing yachts

Hi all.

                      Have sent RYA technical the

same question but response is slow in
arriving.

                      Does anyone have experience

using NHC TCFs for the following:

Ricochet-940, 2002

http://www.ricochet.ru/en/rikoshet-940.html

F28R Corsair Trimaran

https://www.boat-specs.com/corsair/corsair-f28-r

Any thoughts welcome.

Andy Chapman

                        Dubai Offshore Sailing

Club
Keelboat Member


Virus-free. www.avast.com

sailwave@yahoogroups.commailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
**To:**sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject:

7

I will raise with the RYA when I go to committee next week.

Any copy letter you have sent to rya can be forwarded to me on
pmbutterfield@msn.com

I have been to your club as I twice started the Dubai Muscat Race and set up the Maktoum Trophy for DIMC.

Mike Butterfield

Member RYA Technical committee.

Mail](https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986) for Windows 10

···

From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 1:22 AM
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] NHC TCF missing yachts

Hi all.

Have sent RYA technical the same question but response is slow in arriving.

Does anyone have experience using NHC TCFs for the following:

Ricochet-940, 2002

http://www.ricochet.ru/en/rikoshet-940.html

F28R Corsair Trimaran

https://www.boat-specs.com/corsair/corsair-f28-r

Any thoughts welcome.

Andy Chapman

Dubai Offshore Sailing Club
Keelboat Member

8

Thanks Huw,

I stand corrected. I had not read that anywhere.

Regards JohnL.

···

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 5:21 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] NHC TCF missing yachts

Hi John,

The RYA should be able to help Andy as they publish a list of base NHC ratings available as list in spreadsheet format [https://www.rya.org.uk/racing/Pages/nhc.aspx]. Additionally if a set of appropriate measurements are provided / available for a class / type of boat not in the published list, the RYA can calculate a a base rating.

You are not correct in stating that if a particular boat is taken and put with a different group of boats it will require a new NHC rating. It will start in the new group with the published or calculated NHC base rating value. The change in rating from race to race will be calculated for the boat in the new fleet.

Kind regards,

Huw

On 02/10/2018 22:39, ‘JohnL’ jladewig@tpg.com.au [sailwave] wrote:

Hi Andy,

I think RYA will not be able to answer your question.

The reason being the NHC is designed to be used in your fleet with the actual performance of an individual boat in its current setup and crew against the mean of fleet. If you take that boat and put it in a different fleet it will require a new NHC rating. If the boat and crew perform above their normal they will be ranked highly in that race and may even win.

The system I use is to convert the published ratings to a TCF rating and use that as the starting point. For example a Laser full rig has VYC of 114 and a Laser Radial has a VYC of 118.8. this would convert to 0.877 for the full rig and 0.844 for the Radial. I then use this as a starting rating, as the differing speeds of the boats has been removed leaving the quality of the equipment and the crew as the variables.

If there is published rating on the boats in your fleet, or you have actual data on the performance of the boats in question you should be able to to calculate a starting rating.

It is common to see a performance difference of 15% to 20% between the quickest boat and the slowest boats in a fleet. So if you have someone who is clearly a beginner you could allow then a further 10% or so. Remember the bigger the TCF the faster the boat.

As another responder has mentioned the system self-adjusts. I think you need at least 5 races to get the system to start getting close to an accurate figure for the boat in question.

From a quick look at the specifications of the 2 boats in question I would expect 1 would be much quicker than the other, so should have a differing starting ratings…

I hope this helps.

Kind regards JohnL.

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 1:22 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] NHC TCF missing yachts

Hi all.

Have sent RYA technical the same question but response is slow in arriving.

Does anyone have experience using NHC TCFs for the following:

Ricochet-940, 2002

http://www.ricochet.ru/en/rikoshet-940.html

F28R Corsair Trimaran

https://www.boat-specs.com/corsair/corsair-f28-r

Any thoughts welcome.

Andy Chapman

Dubai Offshore Sailing Club
Keelboat Member

Image removed by sender.

Virus-free. www.avast.com