Phantom PY

Imported from Yahoo
1

Hi,

At our local sailing club there are two phantoms. They are literally
unbeatable in a handicap race. Many people believe it is the handicap
the phantom has.

Has anyone changed the handicap for there results and if so by how
much have they been changed.

I think the main reason is that the phantom is advancing in equipment
much faster than the handicap itself. The main suspect is probably the
invent of carbon masts which have changed the rig flex for the better.

Thanks

Daniel

2

Hi

I would certainly agree with your view that the Phantom PY has not kept abreast with its development.

The only way that it can change is for clubs to send in annual returns to RYA proposing a change in PY

To determine what that change might be, there is a formula/system for calculating local PYs, contained in the RYA’s annual release of PYs (YR2)

Have a look at

http://www.rya.org.uk/KnowledgeBase/technical/pys.htm

This tells you how to calculate your own PYs which can then be submitted each year

The returns are usually due by end September so suggest you get to your club secretary/results officer quickly.

You will probably not have time to do the calcs but you can still submit a proposed number based upon ‘expert opinion’

Unfortunately, there may not be an instant change due to:

  • the majority of clubs don’t send in returns - just complain that the system doesn’t work

  • changes are based upon a 3 year average (sadly)

Regards

Ralph

···

-----Original Message-----
From: sailing_maniac_1987 [mailto:sailing_maniac_1987@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 17 September 2006 16:09
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Phantom PY

Hi,

At our local sailing club there are two phantoms. They are literally
unbeatable in a handicap race. Many people believe it is the handicap
the phantom has.

Has anyone changed the handicap for there results and if so by how
much have they been changed.

I think the main reason is that the phantom is advancing in equipment
much faster than the handicap itself. The main suspect is probably the
invent of carbon masts which have changed the rig flex for the better.

Thanks

Daniel

3

The good results may also be due to the people who are sailing the boats. We had this problem when I was sailing Snipes in and around Paris. In any handicap race the Snipes inevitably took the first few places. There was much muttering about favourable handicaps.

We were anxious to point out that, as a fleet, we organised training sessions throughout the year, did a lot of competitive racing, and frequently competed in open and international events, had invested in new sails and had prepared our boats, got fit to sail rather than sailing to get fit… and that we were merely sailing to our handicap. We weren’t popular with those who never trained, rarely competed and were using very tired sails…

Gordon

···

----- Original Message -----

From:
Ralph Tingle

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 4:28 PM

Subject: RE: [sailwave] Phantom PY

Hi

I would certainly agree with your view that the Phantom PY has not kept abreast with its development.

The only way that it can change is for clubs to send in annual returns to RYA proposing a change in PY

To determine what that change might be, there is a formula/system for calculating local PYs, contained in the RYA’s annual release of PYs (YR2)

Have a look at

http://www.rya.org.uk/KnowledgeBase/technical/pys.htm

This tells you how to calculate your own PYs which can then be submitted each year

The returns are usually due by end September so suggest you get to your club secretary/results officer quickly.

You will probably not have time to do the calcs but you can still submit a proposed number based upon ‘expert opinion’

Unfortunately, there may not be an instant change due to:

  • the majority of clubs don’t send in returns - just complain that the system doesn’t work
  • changes are based upon a 3 year average (sadly)

Regards

Ralph

-----Original Message-----
From: sailing_maniac_ 1987 [mailto:sailing_maniac_1987@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 17 September 2006 16:09
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Phantom PY

Hi,

At our local sailing club there are two phantoms. They are literally
unbeatable in a handicap race. Many people believe it is the handicap

the phantom has.

Has anyone changed the handicap for there results and if so by how

much have they been changed.

I think the main reason is that the phantom is advancing in equipment
much faster than the handicap itself. The main suspect is probably the
invent of carbon masts which have changed the rig flex for the better.

Thanks

Daniel

4

Good point Gordon

The Phantom wins most of the handicap events at my local club & even beats 3 digit PYs on the water, but then the helm also happens to be probably the best sailor at the club!

To determine the correct local PY, a ‘crew skill factor’ has to be deducted first.

This is the problem with the process, unless clubs have a Personal Handicap system.

But at the end of the day, a sensible estimate by fair minded individuals is better than not doing anything at all

Regards

Ralph

···

-----Original Message-----
From: gordon davies [mailto:gordondavies@eircom.net]
Sent: 18 September 2006 18:02
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Phantom PY

The good results may also be due to the people who are sailing the boats. We had this problem when I was sailing Snipes in and around Paris. In any handicap race the Snipes inevitably took the first few places. There was much muttering about favourable handicaps.

We were anxious to point out that, as a fleet, we organised training sessions throughout the year, did a lot of competitive racing, and frequently competed in open and international events, had invested in new sails and had prepared our boats, got fit to sail rather than sailing to get fit… and that we were merely sailing to our handicap. We weren’t popular with those who never trained, rarely competed and were using very tired sails…

Gordon

----- Original Message -----

From: Ralph Tingle

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 4:28 PM

Subject: RE: [sailwave] Phantom PY

Hi

I would certainly agree with your view that the Phantom PY has not kept abreast with its development.

The only way that it can change is for clubs to send in annual returns to RYA proposing a change in PY

To determine what that change might be, there is a formula/system for calculating local PYs, contained in the RYA's annual release of PYs (YR2)

Have a look at

http://www.rya.org.uk/KnowledgeBase/technical/pys.htm

This tells you how to calculate your own PYs which can then be submitted each year

The returns are usually due by end September so suggest you get to your club secretary/results officer quickly.

You will probably not have time to do the calcs but you can still submit a proposed number based upon 'expert opinion'

Unfortunately, there may not be an instant change due to:

- the majority of clubs don't send in returns - just complain that the system doesn't work

- changes are based upon a 3 year average (sadly)

Regards

Ralph

-----Original Message-----
From: sailing_maniac_ 1987 [mailto:sailing_maniac_1987@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 17 September 2006 16:09
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Phantom PY

Hi,

  At our local sailing club there are two phantoms. They are literally
  unbeatable in a handicap race. Many people believe it is the handicap

the phantom has.

  Has anyone changed the handicap for there results and if so by how

much have they been changed.

  I think the main reason is that the phantom is advancing in equipment
  much faster than the handicap itself. The main suspect is probably the
  invent of carbon masts which have changed the rig flex for the better.

Thanks

Daniel