At the same time is it worth thinking about competitor being a boat or a helm or a crew? Convention is the helm buit often its really the boat and sometimes its both helm & boat. Occassionally (one of the cases where we can’t use sailwave) its the helm and the crew seperately and independant of the boat if that makes any sense…
m On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 14:05:24 +0000, Colin Jenkins wrote:
According to the rules it is a boat that is scored (RRSA2)
The emphasis on the helm seems to be an Anglo-Saxon thing - based on
the eroneous postulate that the tiller-twiddler is in some way in
charge.
Gordon (never enjoyed tiller twiddling!)
Hi Colin,
I don’t understand much of what has been discussed and just trust you and your ideas.
Hence I have not had anything to contribute.
Rob Morton
88 Woodlands Lane, Bald Hills
Postal addres (P.O. Box 185)
Pambula NSW 2549
Phone: 02 6495 7414 Fax: 02 6495 7139 Mobile: 0428 246 903
email: robmorton@ozemail.com.au
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colin Jenkins
Sent: Thursday, 9 February 2012 2:44
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: proposed change for aliases and scoring system overrides
not my best performance…
Cheers,
Colin J
http://sailwave.com
http://welshandgrumpy.me
On 08/02/2012 15:39, Simon L. Smith wrote:
Chill Colin, go play some piano, which you are actually good at, before you completely trash the SUG!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8H0VDCNbQA&feature=player_embedded
On 8 February 2012 15:28, Colin Jenkins colin@sailwave.com wrote:
3 unsubscribed now!
Cheers,
Colin J
http://sailwave.com
http://welshandgrumpy.me
On 08/02/2012 15:22, Colin Jenkins wrote:
Thanks Tony. I’ve just setup Redmine to handle issue tracking and development so I will use that in the future for this sort of thing. Operational very soon…
Cheers,
Colin J
http://sailwave.com
http://welshandgrumpy.me
On 08/02/2012 15:15, Tony Tucker wrote:
Hi Colin
I think there should be (at least 2 groups). I would recommend:
Scoring & Handicap Questions
Sailwave Support
Sailwave Futures
That would keep the Results sec who uses
Sailwave in a very straightforward way from all
the rest, which in truth may not be of interest,
cheers
Tony
At 15:06 08/02/2012, Colin Jenkins wrote:
Two people (so far) have unsubscribed after I
posted my proposals email. Why? This always
seems to happen when I try and discuss
something. Simon S denies it happens but…Cheers,
Colin J
<http://sailwave.com>http://sailwave.com
http://welshandgrumpy.meOn 08/02/2012 15:03, Colin Jenkins wrote:
Hi Mike,
I would say that most events use a rating based
on class, not competitor, so (ignoring rating
files for the moment), the same rating has to
be set over and over again as you enter the
competitors. Sailwave helps, but essentially
that is true and if you decide to change the
rating for a class (you got it wrong say), you
have to change it N times - once for every
competitor of that class. As you say, other
events need a rating per competitor - e.g. big
boat racing. And also as you say when scoring
the same results with different ratings you
need (in your case) 3 ratings per competitor.What I’m proposing is that there are no ratings
in competitors. Instead there will be a
Setup+Ratings window with a list of ratings for
use in that series. All in one place. Each
line can set a rating based on o set of
criteria. When looking for the rating of a
competitor when scoring, Sailwave scans the
list and uses the first applicable one.Most commonly rating systems will be set up by class:-
class=laser, ratsys=py, races=, val=1078
class=dart18, ratsys=py, races=, val=800but if you want to be more specific you can add competitor specific lines:-
sailno=89, rating=py, races=*, value=1099
and also set per race values
sailno=89, rating=py, races=1, value=1099
sailno=89, rating=py, races=2, value=1096
sailno=89, rating=py, races=3-*, value=1091The UI will help you do this quickly. It means
all rating into is in one place. It also means
that per race ratings (personal handicaps) can
be used per scoring system now as well.Cheers,
Colin J
<http://sailwave.com>http://sailwave.com
http://welshandgrumpy.meOn 08/02/2012 14:46, Mike wrote:
Still struggling a bit here, as to me the
rating of a competitor/boat combination is a
unique property of that competitor/boat. Is
the proposal that the rating tab specifies a
particular rating for a given competitor/boat
combination? (The driving force being that I
only want to enter 1 result for a given
competitor/boat.) Note that all systems I use
have the same corrected time calculation, it’s
just the handicaps that vary. (Maybe I’m just
having a problem with descriptions / words?)
Mike
Lancing SCNo virus found in this message.
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But an SI can ammend the rules!
We have SI ammendments for Tiller Twiddler and a sepereate series for rope puller and tiller twiddler to each get points but then change boat next week and carry the relevant points forward…
I'm pretty sure I don't understand this. I don't really understand what an alias is or when I would want to use it (and certainly not how to implement it) except in the case of scoring some subdivision of a class separately, say Masters. In that case, you would presumably want two options - carry over the scores earned in the entire class or rescore with just these competitors included.
I assume a scoring system override is simply defining a scoring system for one class or fleet when other classes or fleets use some other scoring system. That makes sense. For a typical weekend regatta I would define a ToD system (PHRF ToD) as the global system and then for the single OD class I would say they are a "no correction" system. If your classes were different you might use the opposite approach.
Defining for each class individually wouldn't be much of a burden so long as I could define it once, copy and then change the class or fleet to which it applies.
I don't really understand what would be different per the proposal. But, I do have a commonly occurring situation that Sailwave cannot handle now and I would like it if it could.
There is a fairly significant distinction between a series that is a regatta (consecutive days; each boat is expected to do every race) and a series that is longer than a regatta (say every weekend for 6 months; boats racing expected to be different for each race). In my experience, a series comprised of the scores from multiple races is quite common (in my harbor we have at least 5 major ones each year). Sailwave cannot handle that. Race #1 is fine. But, when you input the results from Race #2 Sailwave wants to do two things incorrectly - it wants to put the new competitors from Race #2 into Race #1 and rescore it. And, it wants to add ALL the competitors from Race #1 into Race #2, even if they didn't enter the second race. What is needed is the ability to score each race as a stand-alone race and then score the series without rescoring any individual races.
If this proposal would allow that then RIGHT ON!! But, I cannot understand if it would or wouldn't.
Art
On 2/8/2012 6:05 AM, Colin Jenkins wrote:
The two areas I find people have most confusion with is aliases and
scoring system overrides. Both are commonly needed. They are also
inter-related. I propose this change, which is intended to make them
both easier to use. It also extends scoring systems to be only applied
to a selection of races - something people ask for a lot. It also saved
the current slog setting up aliases one by one.Replace the existing single list in Sailwave with a number of tabs.
The first tab is called "Competitors" and is a list of the competitors
and fields, no races.The second tab is called "Races" - one per column with the starts
defined as per now.Other tabs represent scoring systems. One per tab. No overrides. You can
set the scoring system up to score as one group or by some field as now.
Here's the difference - each scoring system/tab has associated
expressions to choose which competitors to useand another to choose
which races to use.When scoring from the toolbar it scores all scoring system tabs. But you
can also score scoring systems individually from the appropriate tab.When publishing you can choose which scoring systems to include.
You can then do pretty much anything you like including a whole SfG
regatta in one file - undesirable for practical reasons but possible.Example. Club race, two fleets, mono and multi. monos use PY, multis use
SCHRS. Two scoring system tabs.Example. One PY handicap regatta, want to see usual results, also
results scored by USA PY. No need to use aliases - just add a tab -
setup the scoring system - expressions includes all competitors.Example. long club series but also wants results for weekend races. Add
tab - set races expr appropriately.Etc.
What do you think...?
Personally I think it's much clearer how to use. Essentially the screen
is split into 1. a list of competitors, 2. "how the boats physically
sailed" (Races tab) and 3. N "how i'm going to score the boats" (scoring
system tabs)No aliases needed. No scoring system overrides needed.
No changes to publishing as you can include as many of the scoring tabs
as you like.PS: Qual/Finals no change for now - though there is scope for splitting
between two tabs which would make things clearer as well...--
Cheers,
Colin J
There are a lot of comments to the proposed change for aliases an scoring system overrides. We all should calm down and sleep a few nights before demonsing the proposed changes.
I never had problems with aliases, so I don't se a necessity to change this feature. At the moment I can't figure out, how to solve the rating of our wednesday series without aliases, where we have a winner over all and different winners in four groups at the end of the season.
The use of variable ratings of the same boat in different events, races or series would be an advancement. In our estuary we have diverging big boat ratings for our club races and for races open for all boats of the estuary. By uncoupling the rating from the competitor I can imagine an easement for setting up different events.
Regards
Christof
Hello Art,
did You consider to use a high point scoring system? With a high point scoring system you will not have problems with new competitors in the second or third race and the score of each race will be the same after every rescoring ...
Christof
--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Art Engel <artengel123@...> wrote:
Race #1 is fine. But, when you input the results from Race
#2 Sailwave wants to do two things incorrectly - it wants to put the new competitors from Race #2 into Race #1 and rescore it. And, it wants to add ALL the competitors from Race #1 into Race #2, even if they didn't enter the second race. What is needed is the ability to score each race as a stand-alone race and then score the series without rescoring any individual races.
I do use aliases quite extensively, mainly for handicap fleets competing under multiple handicaps e.g. Beneteau 31.7’s here race under scratch (first over line wins), IMS (handicap determined solely by boat characteristics) and ECHO (handicap continually revised based on performance) - so there are up to three winners in each race. The only issue with the current system is that it’s a bit laborious to set up - you can import the competitors once (for one handicap), but need to manually set up each competitor for each alias instance. However, I’m not sure that there’s an easy fix to that.
In terms of style and appearance, I don’t mind. Once you figure how it works, it seems easy, though ones first foray into aliases normally requires help from someone who has done it before. True test is to find someone who hasn’t used aliases before, then get them to try it the old way and then the new way, thus an unbiased opinion.
Ian.
----- Original Message -----
From:
Colin Jenkins
To: Sailwave User Group
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 2:05 PM
Subject: [sailwave] proposed change for aliases and scoring system overrides
The two areas I find people have most confusion with is aliases and scoring system overrides. Both are commonly needed. They are also inter-related. I propose this change, which is intended to make them both easier to use. It also extends scoring systems to be only applied to a selection of races - something people ask for a lot. It also saved the current slog setting up aliases one by one.
Replace the existing single list in Sailwave with a number of tabs.
The first tab is called “Competitors” and is a list of the competitors and fields, no races.
The second tab is called “Races” - one per column with the starts defined as per now.
Other tabs represent scoring systems. One per tab. No overrides. You can set the scoring system up to score as one group or by some field as now. Here’s the difference - each scoring system/tab has associated expressions to choose which competitors to useand another to choose which races to use.
When scoring from the toolbar it scores all scoring system tabs. But you can also score scoring systems individually from the appropriate tab.
When publishing you can choose which scoring systems to include.
You can then do pretty much anything you like including a whole SfG regatta in one file - undesirable for practical reasons but possible.
Example. Club race, two fleets, mono and multi. monos use PY, multis use SCHRS. Two scoring system tabs.
Example. One PY handicap regatta, want to see usual results, also results scored by USA PY. No need to use aliases - just add a tab - setup the scoring system - expressions includes all competitors.
Example. long club series but also wants results for weekend races. Add tab - set races expr appropriately.
Etc.
What do you think…?
Personally I think it’s much clearer how to use. Essentially the screen is split into 1. a list of competitors, 2. “how the boats physically sailed” (Races tab) and 3. N “how i’m going to score the boats” (scoring system tabs)
No aliases needed. No scoring system overrides needed.
No changes to publishing as you can include as many of the scoring tabs as you like.
PS: Qual/Finals no change for now - though there is scope for splitting between two tabs which would make things clearer as well…
–
Cheers,
Colin J
http://sailwave.com
http://welshandgrumpy.me
I have used aliases on numerous occasions to both score the same boat using multiple different handicaps and to divide a fleet into sub-fleets, such as Men and Womens. The biggest frustration is the length of time it takes to setup.
S. Mark Townsend
Phone: 562-433-4366
Cell: 562-533-5909
Email: s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ian Bowring
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 6:04 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] proposed change for aliases and scoring system overrides
I do use aliases quite extensively, mainly for handicap fleets competing under multiple handicaps e.g. Beneteau 31.7’s here race under scratch (first over line wins), IMS (handicap determined solely by boat characteristics) and ECHO (handicap continually revised based on performance) - so there are up to three winners in each race. The only issue with the current system is that it’s a bit laborious to set up - you can import the competitors once (for one handicap), but need to manually set up each competitor for each alias instance. However, I’m not sure that there’s an easy fix to that.
In terms of style and appearance, I don’t mind. Once you figure how it works, it seems easy, though ones first foray into aliases normally requires help from someone who has done it before. True test is to find someone who hasn’t used aliases before, then get them to try it the old way and then the new way, thus an unbiased opinion.
Ian.
----- Original Message -----
From: Colin Jenkins
To: Sailwave User Group
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 2:05 PM
Subject: [sailwave] proposed change for aliases and scoring system overrides
The two areas I find people have most confusion with is aliases and scoring system overrides. Both are commonly needed. They are also inter-related. I propose this change, which is intended to make them both easier to use. It also extends scoring systems to be only applied to a selection of races - something people ask for a lot. It also saved the current slog setting up aliases one by one.
Replace the existing single list in Sailwave with a number of tabs.
The first tab is called “Competitors” and is a list of the competitors and fields, no races.
The second tab is called “Races” - one per column with the starts defined as per now.
Other tabs represent scoring systems. One per tab. No overrides. You can set the scoring system up to score as one group or by some field as now. Here’s the difference - each scoring system/tab has associated expressions to choose which competitors to useand another to choose which races to use.
When scoring from the toolbar it scores all scoring system tabs. But you can also score scoring systems individually from the appropriate tab.
When publishing you can choose which scoring systems to include.
You can then do pretty much anything you like including a whole SfG regatta in one file - undesirable for practical reasons but possible.
Example. Club race, two fleets, mono and multi. monos use PY, multis use SCHRS. Two scoring system tabs.
Example. One PY handicap regatta, want to see usual results, also results scored by USA PY. No need to use aliases - just add a tab - setup the scoring system - expressions includes all competitors.
Example. long club series but also wants results for weekend races. Add tab - set races expr appropriately.
Etc.
What do you think…?
Personally I think it’s much clearer how to use. Essentially the screen is split into 1. a list of competitors, 2. “how the boats physically sailed” (Races tab) and 3. N “how i’m going to score the boats” (scoring system tabs)
No aliases needed. No scoring system overrides needed.
No changes to publishing as you can include as many of the scoring tabs as you like.
PS: Qual/Finals no change for now - though there is scope for splitting between two tabs which would make things clearer as well…
–
Cheers,
Colin J
http://sailwave.com
http://welshandgrumpy.me
thanks rob. I think my mind dumps do more
harm than good, so i’m going to get on with it in the html5
version and see what happens.
Cheers,
Colin J
http://sailwave.com
http://welshandgrumpy.me
Hi Colin,
I don’tunderstand much of what has been discussed and just
trust you and your ideas.
Hence I havenot had anything to contribute.
Rob Morton
88 WoodlandsLane, Bald Hills
Postaladdres (P.O. Box 185)
Pambula NSW2549
Phone: 026495 7414 Fax: 02 6495 7139 Mobile:
0428 246 903
email:
From:
[] Colin JenkinsThursday, 9 February 2012 2:44
Re: [sailwave] Re: proposed change
for aliases and scoring system overrides
Cheers,
Colin J
http://sailwave.com
http://welshandgrumpy.me
On 08/02/2012 15:39, Simon L. Smith wrote:
Chill Colin, go play some piano, which you areactually good at, before you completely trash
the SUG!
On 8 February 2012 15:28,Colin Jenkins <colin@sailwave.com >
wrote:
3 unsubscribed now!
Cheers,
Colin J
http://sailwave.com
http://welshandgrumpy.me
On 08/02/201215:22, Colin Jenkins wrote:
Thanks Tony. I've justsetup Redmine to handle issue
tracking and development so I
will use that in the future
for this sort of thing.
Operational very soon…
Cheers,
Colin J
http://sailwave.com
http://welshandgrumpy.me
On 08/02/2012 15:15, Tony Tuckerwrote:
Hi Colin
I think there should be (atleast 2 groups). I would
recommend:Scoring & HandicapQuestions
Sailwave Support
Sailwave FuturesThat would keep the Resultssec who uses
Sailwave in a very
straightforward way from all
the rest, which in truth may
not be of interest,cheers Tony At 15:06 08/02/2012, ColinJenkins wrote:
>
>
>Two people (so far) have
unsubscribed after I
>posted my proposals email.
Why? This always
>seems to happen when I try
and discuss
>something. Simon S denies
it happens but…
>
>Cheers,
>Colin J
><http://sailwave.com>http://sailwave.com
>http://welshandgrumpy.me
>
>On 08/02/2012 15:03, Colin
Jenkins wrote:
>>
>>
>>Hi Mike,
>>
>>I would say that most
events use a rating based
>>on class, not
competitor, so (ignoring
rating
>>files for the moment),
the same rating has to
>>be set over and over
again as you enter the
>>competitors. Sailwave
helps, but essentially
>>that is true and if
you decide to change the
>>rating for a class
(you got it wrong say), you
>>have to change it N
times - once for every
>>competitor of that
class. As you say, other
>>events need a rating
per competitor - e.g. big
>>boat racing. And also
as you say when scoring
>>the same results with
different ratings you
>>need (in your case) 3
ratings per competitor.
>>
>>What I’m proposing is
that there are no ratings
>>in competitors.
Instead there will be a
>>Setup+Ratings window
with a list of ratings for
>>use in that series.
All in one place. Each
>>line can set a rating
based on o set of
>>criteria. When looking
for the rating of a
>>competitor when
scoring, Sailwave scans the
>>list and uses the
first applicable one.
>>
>>Most commonly rating
systems will be set up by
class:-
>>
>>class=laser,
ratsys=py, races=, val=1078
>>class=dart18,
ratsys=py, races=, val=800
>>
>>but if you want to be
more specific you can add
competitor specific lines:-
>>
>>sailno=89, rating=py,
races=, value=1099
>>
>>and also set per race
values
>>
>>sailno=89, rating=py,
races=1, value=1099
>>sailno=89, rating=py,
races=2, value=1096
>>sailno=89, rating=py,
races=3-, value=1091
>>
>>The UI will help you
do this quickly. It means
>>all rating into is in
one place. It also means
>>that per race ratings
(personal handicaps) can
>>be used per scoring
system now as well.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Colin J
>><http://sailwave.com>http://sailwave.com
>>http://welshandgrumpy.me
>>
>>On 08/02/2012 14:46,
Mike wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>Still struggling a
bit here, as to me the
>>>rating of a
competitor/boat combination is
a
>>>unique property of
that competitor/boat. Is
>>>the proposal that
the rating tab specifies a
>>>particular rating
for a given competitor/boat
>>>combination? (The
driving force being that I
>>>only want to enter
1 result for a given
>>>competitor/boat.)
Note that all systems I use
>>>have the same
corrected time calculation,
it’s
>>>just the handicaps
that vary. (Maybe I’m just
>>>having a problem
with descriptions / words?)
>>>Mike
>>>Lancing SC
>>>
>>>No virus found in
this message.
>>>Checked by AVG -
<http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com
>>>Version:
2012.0.1913 / Virus Database:
2112/4795 - Release Date:
02/07/12
>>
>>No virus found in this
message.
>>Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com
>>Version: 2012.0.1913 /
Virus Database: 2112/4795 -
Release Date: 02/07/12
>
No virus found in this message.
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Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus
Database: 2112/4795 - Release
Date: 02/07/12
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Database: 2112/4795 - Release
Date: 02/07/12
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Release Date: 02/07/12
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02/08/12
robmorton@ozemail.com.ausailwave@yahoogroups.commailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com** On Behalf Of**
Sent:
**To:**sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject:
Colin, i thought your suggestion made a lot of sense and would seem to solve a multitude of problems and usability issues currently encountered by scorers trying to leverage the alias feature. The following results were scored using aliases. http://www.abyc.org/upload/2010_Lido_14_Twilights_Overall_09-29.htm However I was unable to get the monthly results to work and had to create multiple files to accomodate the monthly series. See all the result links at the bottom of the page. http://www.abyc.org/event.cfm?id=376 .
I find your suggestions very informative as they help understand how to leverage Sailwave in different ways for different scoring challenges.
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
From: s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 21:50:15 -0800
Subject: RE: [sailwave] proposed change for aliases and scoring system overrides
I have used aliases on numerous occasions to both score the same boat using multiple different handicaps and to divide a fleet into sub-fleets, such as Men and Womens. The biggest frustration is the length of time it takes to setup.
S. Mark Townsend
Phone: 562-433-4366
Cell: 562-533-5909
Email: s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ian Bowring
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 6:04 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] proposed change for aliases and scoring system overrides
I do use aliases quite extensively, mainly for handicap fleets competing under multiple handicaps e.g. Beneteau 31.7’s here race under scratch (first over line wins), IMS (handicap determined solely by boat characteristics) and ECHO (handicap continually revised based on performance) - so there are up to three winners in each race. The only issue with the current system is that it’s a bit laborious to set up - you can import the competitors once (for one handicap), but need to manually set up each competitor for each alias instance. However, I’m not sure that there’s an easy fix to that.
In terms of style and appearance, I don’t mind. Once you figure how it works, it seems easy, though ones first foray into aliases normally requires help from someone who has done it before. True test is to find someone who hasn’t used aliases before, then get them to try it the old way and then the new way, thus an unbiased opinion.
Ian.
----- Original Message -----
From: Colin Jenkins
To: Sailwave User Group
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 2:05 PM
Subject: [sailwave] proposed change for aliases and scoring system overrides
The two areas I find people have most confusion with is aliases and scoring system overrides. Both are commonly needed. They are also inter-related. I propose this change, which is intended to make them both easier to use. It also extends scoring systems to be only applied to a selection of races - something people ask for a lot. It also saved the current slog setting up aliases one by one.
Replace the existing single list in Sailwave with a number of tabs.
The first tab is called “Competitors” and is a list of the competitors and fields, no races.
The second tab is called “Races” - one per column with the starts defined as per now.
Other tabs represent scoring systems. One per tab. No overrides. You can set the scoring system up to score as one group or by some field as now. Here’s the difference - each scoring system/tab has associated expressions to choose which competitors to useand another to choose which races to use.
When scoring from the toolbar it scores all scoring system tabs. But you can also score scoring systems individually from the appropriate tab.
When publishing you can choose which scoring systems to include.
You can then do pretty much anything you like including a whole SfG regatta in one file - undesirable for practical reasons but possible.
Example. Club race, two fleets, mono and multi. monos use PY, multis use SCHRS. Two scoring system tabs.
Example. One PY handicap regatta, want to see usual results, also results scored by USA PY. No need to use aliases - just add a tab - setup the scoring system - expressions includes all competitors.
Example. long club series but also wants results for weekend races. Add tab - set races expr appropriately.
Etc.
What do you think…?
Personally I think it’s much clearer how to use. Essentially the screen is split into 1. a list of competitors, 2. “how the boats physically sailed” (Races tab) and 3. N “how i’m going to score the boats” (scoring system tabs)
No aliases needed. No scoring system overrides needed.
No changes to publishing as you can include as many of the scoring tabs as you like.
PS: Qual/Finals no change for now - though there is scope for splitting between two tabs which would make things clearer as well…
Cheers,
Colin J
http://sailwave.com
http://welshandgrumpy.me
Thanks Mark.� Keeping the changes for the HTML5
version…
Cheers,
Colin J
http://sailwave.com
http://welshandgrumpy.me
Colin, i thought your suggestion made a lotof sense and would seem to solve a multitude of problems
and usability issues currently encountered by scorers
trying to leverage the alias feature. The following
results were scored using aliases.
However I was unable to get the monthly results to work
and had to create multiple files to accomodate the monthly
series. See all the result links at the bottom of the
page. .
I find your suggestions very informative as they help
understand how to leverage Sailwave in different ways for
different scoring challenges.
To: From: Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 21:50:15 -0800
Subject: RE: [sailwave] proposed change for aliases and
scoring system overrides
No virusfound in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4797 - Release Date:
02/08/12
http://www.abyc.org/upload/2010_Lido_14_Twilights_Overall_09-29.htmhttp://www.abyc.org/event.cfm?id=376
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
�
I have
used aliases on numerous occasions to both
score the same boat using multiple different
handicaps and to divide a fleet into
sub-fleets, such as Men and Womens.� The
biggest frustration is the length of time it
takes to setup.
�
�
�
** S.
Mark Townsend**
Phone:
562-433-4366
Cell:
562-533-5909
Email: s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
�
From:
[] Ian Bowring
Wednesday, February 08, 2012
6:04 PM
Re: [sailwave] proposed
change for aliases and scoring system
overrides
�
�
I do use
aliases quite extensively, mainly for
handicap fleets competing under
multiple handicaps e.g. Beneteau
31.7’s here race under scratch (first
over line wins), IMS (handicap
determined solely by boat
characteristics) and ECHO (handicap
continually revised based on
performance) - so there are up to
three winners in each race.�� The only
issue with the current system is that
it’s a bit laborious to set up - you
can import the competitors once (for
one handicap), but need to manually
set up each competitor for each alias
instance.� However, I’m not sure that
there’s an easy fix to that.
�
In terms of
style and appearance, I don’t mind.��
Once you figure how it works, it seems
easy, though ones first foray into
aliases normally requires help from
someone who has done it before.�� True
test is to find someone who hasn’t
used aliases before, then get them to
try it the old way and then the new
way, thus an unbiased opinion.
�
Ian.
�
�
-----Original Message -----
From: Colin
Jenkins
To: Sailwave
User Group
Sent:
Wednesday, February 08, 2012 2:05 PM
Subject:
[sailwave] proposed change for
aliases and scoring system overrides
�
�
The two areasI find people have most confusion with
is aliases and scoring system
overrides.� Both are commonly needed.�
They are also inter-related.� I
propose this change, which is intended
to make them both easier to use.� It
also extends scoring systems to be
only applied to a selection of races -
something people ask for a lot.� It
also saved the current slog setting up
aliases one by one.Replace the existing single list inSailwave with a number of tabs.
The first tab is called "Competitors"and is a list of the competitors and
fields, no races.The second tab is called "Races" - oneper column with the starts defined as
per now.Other tabs represent scoring systems.�One per tab.� No overrides.� You can
set the scoring system up to score as
one group or by some field as now.�
Here’s the difference - each scoring
system/tab� has associated expressions
to choose which competitors to useand
another to choose which races to use.When scoring from the toolbar itscores all scoring system tabs.� But
you can also score scoring systems
individually from the appropriate tab.When publishing you can choose whichscoring systems to include.
You can then do pretty much anythingyou like including a whole SfG regatta
in one file - undesirable for
practical reasons but possible.Example.� Club race, two fleets, monoand multi.� monos use PY, multis use
SCHRS.� Two scoring system tabs.Example.� One PY handicap regatta,�want to see usual results, also
results scored by USA PY.� No need to
use aliases - just add a tab - setup
the scoring system - expressions
includes all competitors.Example. long club series but alsowants results for weekend races.� Add
tab - set races expr appropriately.Etc. What do you think...? Personally I think it's much clearerhow to use.� Essentially the screen is
split into 1. a list of competitors,
2. "how the boats physically sailed"�
(Races tab) and 3. N “how i’m going to
score the boats” (scoring system tabs)No aliases needed.� No scoring systemoverrides needed.
No changes to publishing as you caninclude as many of the scoring tabs as
you like.PS: Qual/Finals no change for now -though there is scope for splitting
between two tabs which would make
things clearer as well…Cheers, Colin J [http://sailwave.com](http://sailwave.com) [http://welshandgrumpy.me](http://welshandgrumpy.me)
sailwave@yahoogroups.commailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com** On
Behalf Of**
Sent:
**To:**sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject:
Hi Colin,
We score multiple series from the one race. The crtical issue is that some races are not scored for a particular series. Say we have 15 races, all may be scored for handicap series but only 7 are scored for the Club Championship. This means that Alias can’t be used.
We currently do this in Sailwave by making each series a separate division and entering the elapsed times in an Excel spreadsheet and using Excel to propagate the times to the other divisions. Then we use Import Race results to pull the one race result into Sailwave for all the Divisions. (Solution curtesy of Neil Johnson at Drummoyne Sailing Club). Handicaps are calculated outside of Sailwave so it may limit the usefulness of the solution for some users.
If this could be done easily within Sailwave it would make for a simpler solution, though the current solution is quite quick to use.
regards
Rob G
HHSC
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Colin Jenkins colin@sailwave.com wrote:
Thanks Mark. Keeping the changes for the HTML5version…
Cheers,
Colin J [http://sailwave.com](http://sailwave.com) [http://welshandgrumpy.me](http://welshandgrumpy.me)
On 09/02/2012 12:54, Mark Townsend wrote:
Colin, i thought your suggestion made a lotof sense and would seem to solve a multitude of problems
and usability issues currently encountered by scorers
trying to leverage the alias feature. The following
results were scored using aliases.
http://www.abyc.org/upload/2010_Lido_14_Twilights_Overall_09-29.htm
However I was unable to get the monthly results to work
and had to create multiple files to accomodate the monthly
series. See all the result links at the bottom of the
page. http://www.abyc.org/event.cfm?id=376 .I find your suggestions very informative as they helpunderstand how to leverage Sailwave in different ways for
different scoring challenges.
From: s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 21:50:15 -0800 Subject: RE: [sailwave] proposed change for aliases andscoring system overrides
I haveused aliases on numerous occasions to both
score the same boat using multiple different
handicaps and to divide a fleet into
sub-fleets, such as Men and Womens. The
biggest frustration is the length of time it
takes to setup.
** S.
Mark Townsend**Phone:562-433-4366
Cell:562-533-5909
Email: s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
From:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] ** On
Behalf Of** Ian Bowring
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012
6:04 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] proposed
change for aliases and scoring system
overrides
I do usealiases quite extensively, mainly for
handicap fleets competing under
multiple handicaps e.g. Beneteau
31.7’s here race under scratch (first
over line wins), IMS (handicap
determined solely by boat
characteristics) and ECHO (handicap
continually revised based on
performance) - so there are up to
three winners in each race. The only
issue with the current system is that
it’s a bit laborious to set up - you
can import the competitors once (for
one handicap), but need to manually
set up each competitor for each alias
instance. However, I’m not sure that
there’s an easy fix to that.
In terms ofstyle and appearance, I don’t mind.
Once you figure how it works, it seems
easy, though ones first foray into
aliases normally requires help from
someone who has done it before. True
test is to find someone who hasn’t
used aliases before, then get them to
try it the old way and then the new
way, thus an unbiased opinion.
Ian.
-----Original Message -----
From: Colin
Jenkins
To: Sailwave
User Group
Sent:
Wednesday, February 08, 2012 2:05 PM
Subject:
[sailwave] proposed change for
aliases and scoring system overrides
The two areasI find people have most confusion with
is aliases and scoring system
overrides. Both are commonly needed.
They are also inter-related. I
propose this change, which is intended
to make them both easier to use. It
also extends scoring systems to be
only applied to a selection of races -
something people ask for a lot. It
also saved the current slog setting up
aliases one by one.Replace the existing single list inSailwave with a number of tabs.
The first tab is called "Competitors"and is a list of the competitors and
fields, no races.The second tab is called "Races" - oneper column with the starts defined as
per now.Other tabs represent scoring systems.One per tab. No overrides. You can
set the scoring system up to score as
one group or by some field as now.
Here’s the difference - each scoring
system/tab has associated expressions
to choose which competitors to useand
another to choose which races to use.When scoring from the toolbar itscores all scoring system tabs. But
you can also score scoring systems
individually from the appropriate tab.When publishing you can choose whichscoring systems to include.
You can then do pretty much anythingyou like including a whole SfG regatta
in one file - undesirable for
practical reasons but possible.Example. Club race, two fleets, monoand multi. monos use PY, multis use
SCHRS. Two scoring system tabs.Example. One PY handicap regatta,want to see usual results, also
results scored by USA PY. No need to
use aliases - just add a tab - setup
the scoring system - expressions
includes all competitors.Example. long club series but alsowants results for weekend races. Add
tab - set races expr appropriately.Etc. What do you think...? Personally I think it's much clearerhow to use. Essentially the screen is
split into 1. a list of competitors,
2. “how the boats physically sailed”
(Races tab) and 3. N “how i’m going to
score the boats” (scoring system tabs)No aliases needed. No scoring systemoverrides needed.
No changes to publishing as you caninclude as many of the scoring tabs as
you like.PS: Qual/Finals no change for now -though there is scope for splitting
between two tabs which would make
things clearer as well…Cheers, Colin J [http://sailwave.com](http://sailwave.com) [http://welshandgrumpy.me](http://welshandgrumpy.me)
No virusfound in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4797 - Release Date:
02/08/12