HI SUG Members,
Someone, in a missed chat session, would like instead of a default blank box on the first publishing window alongside word Title when publishing results a different default of ‘Results as of @ on #’ or another button.
Their reasoning can be seen at Provisional vs Final; When do results become “Final”? | Nepean Sailing Club
What do others think?
Kind regards,
Huw
Hi Huw,
My interpretation is that based on the rules, unless RRS 90.3(e) applies, the results are never final. See RRS 90.3(c) In theory, a line judge that reviewed his/her video recording of a start a while after an event and through detailed analysis detected additional BFD boats must change the scores and make them available to the competitors.
I’m in favour of having a ‘Results as of @ on #’ button as the default, but keep the other buttons too.
Cheers,
Peter
I agree with Peter that in a certain sense results are kind of never
“final” meaning that they cannot change. But, that doesn’t help the
sailors: they mostly want to know when the RC thinks they are finished
messing around with the finishes they received from the RC boat and no
changes because of protests or redress are likely.
So, I have advised my local RC as follows:
Results should be “Preliminary” or “Final” as follows:
“Preliminary” until the PRO has viewed and approved the results AND
the protest time limit has passed with no protests or requests for
redress filed. This ensures that if there are starting penalties they
get input as quickly as possible. I don’t mind “Preliminary” results
being posted really early because as a competitor I am mostly worried
about finish times - I sail handicap.
If there are protests filed then “Preliminary Pending Protests” and
if there are requests for redress filed then “Preliminary Pending Redress.”
After that (protests and redress resolved) they can be titled as
“Final” meaning that no changes are likely, though still possible.
If “Final” results change then either “Revised” or “Final Revised.”
We date our results with “last updated at …” at the bottom of the page
so there is no need to put that in the title. But, that is important
information so should be displayed somewhere on the results page for a
race or for a series. We do separate pages for races and series so if
race #2 changes then the “updated” for race #2 and the series would
change but not for the other races.
When there is an appeal we do nothing until the appeal is decided
(the RC might not even know of the appeal). I frankly don’t remember
what the practice is when results change months after an event due to an
appeal. Certainly, the “updated” info would change and “Final” would
become “Revised” but I don’t think we ever give the exact reason for the
change.
NOTE: There is a new provision in the rulebook that came into effect on
Jan. 1, 2021. RRS 90.3(e) provides procedures for results to become
officially “Final” even when wrong. I don’t like it, though it might be
appropriate for something like the Olympics. I believe it stems from the
Finn class where 20 years after a major event someone noticed that the
scorer had added up the scores of the boats incorrectly and so the event
had the wrong boat winning. Naturally, the class fixed it once it became
known. Personally, that is exactly why results should never be “Final”
as it is never to late to make things right. World Sailing disagrees,
obviously. The bizarre situation at issue in the Finn situation is
unlikely to happen today with computerized scoring (as opposed to doing
it with a pencil and paper by hand!).
I would never use “Provisional” but would use “Preliminary” instead but
that is just personal preference.
Good sailing,
Art
PS - By the way, we title our races as Race #1, Race #2, etc. so the #
as a abbrev. in the default title means we have to edit the HTML files
after publishing and is REALLY annoying. I’d suggest using abbrev’s for
date and time that are unique, such as @date and #time instead of just @
and #, which a user might reasonably want to put in the title of a
results page.
I support the suggestions by Peter and Art to have a default of ‘Results as of @ on #’ - actually I’d prefer ‘Results as of @date on @time’ if changes are being made.
Thinking back to my first use of Sailwave the use of @date and @time or #time would be more intuitive and “friendly” for new users.
Regards,
Richard
07777 670525
www.chanonry.org.uk/results.html
Hi Art,
Please can you expand on this comment, as I don’t understand.
Regarding use of # and @ symbols and the suggested changes. Changes may not be possible due to the coding environment being used.
Kind regards,
Huw
Huw,
Sorry! I thought my point was fairly obvious.
We pretty much always post race results and series results on separate
pages so for a 5-race series we will have 6 pages; otherwise, the pages
get long and hard to navigate plus some sailors may not care about
separate individual race results. Most of our races include handicap
classes so displaying the calculated times somewhere is important but we
don’t want to clutter the series results. Any idiot can post accurate
results so we want to separate ourselves from the rest by having them
look nice and be helpful.
So, for each race page we want the title to be something like: Race #2 -
Preliminary Pending Protests, etc. When we put that in the title box for
publishing Sailwave barfs because the “#” symbol is a prohibited
character. This happens often in computer programming and you just need
to escape the character like “#” but that doesn’t work with Sailwave so
we have to process the files before posting to the web.
Here are two examples: one Sailwave, one not.
http://results.calyachtclub.com/RaceResults/2012/PacCup_01.html
http://results.calyachtclub.com/RaceResults/2012/2012_sunset_race01.html
My point was simple: the @ and # symbols are ones that folks might want
to use in their titles. So, it would make sense to use some unique
identifiers that it is unlikely anyone would ever want to use. @date and
@time (or even better @date@ and @time@) would make sense as would #date
and #time or any combination. A very minor point but increasing ease of use.
Good sailing,
Art
Huw,
I never use either of the Final or Provisional options.
I could live with the suggestion, providing there is still the option to delete it.
Hi Art,
Thank you for expanding your explanation and I now understand.
I agree that in a lot of computer programming languages you can escape characters but not the one used to code Sailwave, at least with an escape character that I am aware of. Jon might know differently.
A small point, I am disappointed to note that Sailwave results have had the Sailwave footer commented out in the source code.
Kind regards,
Huw