Race Officer Scoring Issue

[towen999]

We require our competitors to do Race Officer(RO) Duty on a rotating basis since we do not have a separate RO staff. To not penalize those doing RO duties, fore the races that they do RO Duties, we assign them the average score of their sailed races for the race. However, there are cases where there are only a few racers in the early part of the Spring Series, and the average score for the competed races later in the series is greater than the worst score the RO could get in the earlier races. Is there a way to cap (e.g., min [DNF, Average Score]) the RO credit to be no greater than a DNF which would be the worst score they could have received for that race? Attached is an example.

Thanks,

Tom Owen

Dahlgren Yacht Club

···

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[Huw2]

Hi Tom,

How about changing the method for your RO� code to "*      Average of

sum of points for all races before the race in question + N points* ",
it is the option two down from t he one you are using. Using this is
possible now because your suggestion would require Jon to do some
coding.

It also has the benefit in my view of reflecting performance of

competitor at that point in the series and not penalising them as
more boats turnout later in the series.

My two cents worth.
Kind regards,
Huw

···

On 16/06/2015 11:53, Tom Owen
[sailwave] wrote:

towen999@msn.com

            We require our competitors to do Race

Officer(RO) Duty on a rotating basis since we do not
have a separate RO staff. To not penalize those doing RO
duties, fore the races that they do RO Duties, we assign
them the average score of their sailed races for the
race. However, there are cases where there are only a
few racers in the early part of the Spring Series, and
the average score for the competed races later in the
series is greater than the worst score the RO could get
in the earlier races.� Is there a way to cap (e.g., min
[DNF, Average Score]) the RO credit to be no greater
than a DNF which would be the worst score they could
have received for that race?� Attached is an example.

�

Thanks,

Tom Owen

Dahlgren Yacht Club

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[towen999]

Huw,

Unless I am missing something, I understand your suggestion, but I do not understand how it would work for the RO prior to actually racing (e.g., first race of a series). What would be the suggested value(s) for N? I assume it would be zero. We also normally have 8 races per series and count the best 5 scores.

Thanks,

Tom

···

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 7:10 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Race Officer Scoring Issue

Hi Tom,
How about changing the method for your RO code to “Average of sum of points for all races before the race in question + N points”, it is the option two down from t he one you are using. Using this is possible now because your suggestion would require Jon to do some coding.

It also has the benefit in my view of reflecting performance of competitor at that point in the series and not penalising them as more boats turnout later in the series.

My two cents worth.
Kind regards,
Huw

On 16/06/2015 11:53, Tom Owen towen999@msn.com [sailwave] wrote:

We require our competitors to do Race Officer(RO) Duty on a rotating basis since we do not have a separate RO staff. To not penalize those doing RO duties, fore the races that they do RO Duties, we assign them the average score of their sailed races for the race. However, there are cases where there are only a few racers in the early part of the Spring Series, and the average score for the competed races later in the series is greater than the worst score the RO could get in the earlier races. Is there a way to cap (e.g., min [DNF, Average Score]) the RO credit to be no greater than a DNF which would be the worst score they could have received for that race? Attached is an example.

Thanks,

Tom Owen

Dahlgren Yacht Club

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[Huw2]

Tom,

Yes you are correct. However it could be considered an incentive to

get your duty in early!

I have looked at the options again and have a new suggestion.

Set the method to "Points for the number of finishers in the race +

N places". The attached shows the effect of this. For those doing RO
duty in a race with no finishers they will get 1 point.

Kind regards,
Huw

···

On 16/06/2015 19:44, Tom Owen
[sailwave] wrote:

towen999@msn.com

Huw,

�

              Unless

I am missing something, I understand your suggestion,
but I do not understand how it would work for the RO
prior to actually racing (e.g., first race of a
series). What would be the suggested value(s) for N?�
I assume it would be zero.� We also normally have 8
races per series and count the best 5 scores.

�

Thanks,

Tom

�

From:

                  [] Tuesday, June 16, 2015 7:10 AM

Re: [sailwave] Race Officer
Scoring Issue

�

�

Hi Tom,

                  How about changing the method for your RO� code to

"* Average of sum of points for all races before
the race in question + N points* ", it is the
option two down from t he one you are using. Using
this is possible now because your suggestion would
require Jon to do some coding.

                  It also has the benefit in my view of reflecting

performance of competitor at that point in the
series and not penalising them as more boats
turnout later in the series.

                  My two cents worth.
                  Kind regards,
                  Huw

                    On 16/06/2015 11:53, Tom Owen

towen999@msn.com
[sailwave] wrote:

�

                        We require our

competitors to do Race Officer(RO) Duty on a
rotating basis since we do not have a
separate RO staff. To not penalize those
doing RO duties, fore the race s that they
do RO Duties, we assign them the average
score of their sailed races for the race.
However, there are cases where there are
only a few racers in the early part of the
Spring Series, and the average score for the
competed races later in the series is
greater than the worst score the RO could
get in the earlier races.� Is there a way to
cap (e.g., min [DNF, Average Score]) the RO
credit to be no greater than a DNF which
would be the worst score they could have
received for that race?� Attached is an
example.

�

Thanks,

Tom Owen

Dahlgren Yacht Club

�

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sailwave@yahoogroups.commailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
**To:**sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject:

[towen999]

Huw,

I guess I will manually assign the RO credit at the end of the series for those cases where the average is worse than a DNF. Thanks for the suggestions.

Tom

···

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 4:20 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Race Officer Scoring Issue [1 Attachment]

Tom,

Yes you are correct. However it could be considered an incentive to get your duty in early!

I have looked at the options again and have a new suggestion.

Set the method to “Points for the number of finishers in the race + N places”. The attached shows the effect of this. For those doing RO duty in a race with no finishers they will get 1 point.

Kind regards,
Huw

On 16/06/2015 19:44, Tom Owen towen999@msn.com [sailwave] wrote:

Huw,

Unless I am missing something, I understand your suggestion, but I do not understand how it would work for the RO prior to actually racing (e.g., first race of a series). What would be the suggested value(s) for N? I assume it would be zero. We also normally have 8 races per series and count the best 5 scores.

Thanks,

Tom

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2015 7:10 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Race Officer Scoring Issue

Hi Tom,
How about changing the method for your RO code to “Average of sum of points for all races before the race in question + N points”, it is the option two down from t he one you are using. Using this is possible now because your suggestion would require Jon to do some coding.

It also has the benefit in my view of reflecting performance of competitor at that point in the series and not penalising them as more boats turnout later in the series.

My two cents worth.
Kind regards,
Huw

On 16/06/2015 11:53, Tom Owen towen999@msn.com [sailwave] wrote:

We require our competitors to do Race Officer(RO) Duty on a rotating basis since we do not have a separate RO staff. To not penalize those doing RO duties, fore the race s that they do RO Duties, we assign them the average score of their sailed races for the race. However, there are cases where there are only a few racers in the early part of the Spring Series, and the average score for the competed races later in the series is greater than the worst score the RO could get in the earlier races. Is there a way to cap (e.g., min [DNF, Average Score]) the RO credit to be no greater than a DNF which would be the worst score they could have received for that race? Attached is an example.

Thanks,

Tom Owen

Dahlgren Yacht Club

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[yahoo_groups]

—In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, <towen999@…> wrote :

However, there are cases where there are only a few racers in the early part of the Spring Series,

and the average score for the competed races later in the series is greater than the worst score

the RO could get in the earlier races.

We have similar issues, but in the end we came to the conclusion that for us the best thing to do was make OOD points average of all races. Its kind of a philosophical point, but when we thought it out we decided the distinction was whether we were giving the RO points for that particular race, or average points for missing a race in the series? We decided it was the latter, and that even though the points were attached to one particular race in the scoring system they shouldn’t be thought of like that.

The alternative was a situation where the OOD points depended on which race they happened to pick up in the series to do their duty on, which seemed even more unfair than the 6 points with only 3 starters situation. Our folk seem content with this status now. After all, if you go the other way, what a minefield it is - do you end up calculating whom Fred would normally be ahead of and behind and slotting them in the race there? That would probably be most representative, but who has the time?

We also use average of all races, not average of previous, because we decided it was better for OOD points to change as the series progresses rather than have them reflect, especially for earlier races in the series, results which might be better or worse than representative of the crew’s performance as a whole. Not fun if you are down the pan in race one because the crew were late getting off the dock and then get that as your average in race 2 no matter how well you do in the rest of the series.

On series scoring, I always suggest that when considering changes people should rework series for two or three options and examine the results. Some years ago (pre Sailwave) I had what I thought was a wonderful idea for a much fairer series scoring system, and enthusiastically wrote a spreadsheet to implement it. I then plumbed in the previous years series into it, and to my surprise found it made very little difference. I then plumbed in several different scoring systems, high point and low point, and found that they all made very little difference, and whilst there were changes by one or two places with the different systems, there didn’t seem to be any way one could characterise any of them as being “right” or “wrong”. So I sulkily deleted the paper I’d already written for the club sailing committee…

Jim C

[ColinJenkins]

I suppose we covertly avoid this by giving OOD = fixed points of 1.5.

···

On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 11:46 AM, yho@devboats.co.uk [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:

—In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, <towen999@…> wrote :

However, there are cases where there are only a few racers in the early part of the Spring Series,

and the average score for the competed races later in the series is greater than the worst score

the RO could get in the earlier races.

We have similar issues, but in the end we came to the conclusion that for us the best thing to do was make OOD points average of all races. Its kind of a philosophical point, but when we thought it out we decided the distinction was whether we were giving the RO points for that particular race, or average points for missing a race in the series? We decided it was the latter, and that even though the points were attached to one particular race in the scoring system they shouldn’t be thought of like that.

The alternative was a situation where the OOD points depended on which race they happened to pick up in the series to do their duty on, which seemed even more unfair than the 6 points with only 3 starters situation. Our folk seem content with this status now. After all, if you go the other way, what a minefield it is - do you end up calculating whom Fred would normally be ahead of and behind and slotting them in the race there? That would probably be most representative, but who has the time?

We also use average of all races, not average of previous, because we decided it was better for OOD points to change as the series progresses rather than have them reflect, especially for earlier races in the series, results which might be better or worse than representative of the crew’s performance as a whole. Not fun if you are down the pan in race one because the crew were late getting off the dock and then get that as your average in race 2 no matter how well you do in the rest of the series.

On series scoring, I always suggest that when considering changes people should rework series for two or three options and examine the results. Some years ago (pre Sailwave) I had what I thought was a wonderful idea for a much fairer series scoring system, and enthusiastically wrote a spreadsheet to implement it. I then plumbed in the previous years series into it, and to my surprise found it made very little difference. I then plumbed in several different scoring systems, high point and low point, and found that they all made very little difference, and whilst there were changes by one or two places with the different systems, there didn’t seem to be any way one could characterise any of them as being “right” or “wrong”. So I sulkily deleted the paper I’d already written for the club sailing committee…

Jim C

Cheers,

Colin J

http://sailwave.com

[Rob_Morton]

We have given our OOD a fixed points score of 2, and still do

Rob Morton

Pambula NSW Australia

···

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 17 June 2015 20:54
To: Sailwave User Group
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Race Officer Scoring Issue

I suppose we covertly avoid this by giving OOD = fixed points of 1.5.

Cheers,

Colin J

http://sailwave.com

On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 11:46 AM, yho@devboats.co.uk [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:

—In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, <towen999@…> wrote :

However, there are cases where there are only a few racers in the early part of the Spring Series,

and the average score for the competed races later in the series is greater than the worst score

the RO could get in the earlier races.

We have similar issues, but in the end we came to the conclusion that for us the best thing to do was make OOD points average of all races. Its kind of a philosophical point, but when we thought it out we decided the distinction was whether we were giving the RO points for that particular race, or average points for missing a race in the series? We decided it was the latter, and that even though the points were attached to one particular race in the scoring system they shouldn’t be thought of like that.

The alternative was a situation where the OOD points depended on which race they happened to pick up in the series to do their duty on, which seemed even more unfair than the 6 points with only 3 starters situation. Our folk seem content with this status now. After all, if you go the other way, what a minefield it is - do you end up calculating whom Fred would normally be ahead of and behind and slotting them in the race there? That would probably be most representative, but who has the time?

We also use average of all races, not average of previous, because we decided it was better for OOD points to change as the series progresses rather than have them reflect, especially for earlier races in the series, results which might be better or worse than representative of the crew’s performance as a whole. Not fun if you are down the pan in race one because the crew were late getting off the dock and then get that as your average in race 2 no matter how well you do in the rest of the series.

On series scoring, I always suggest that when considering changes people should rework series for two or three options and examine the results. Some years ago (pre Sailwave) I had what I thought was a wonderful idea for a much fairer series scoring system, and enthusiastically wrote a spreadsheet to implement it. I then plumbed in the previous years series into it, and to my surprise found it made very little difference. I then plumbed in several different scoring systems, high point and low point, and found that they all made very little difference, and whilst there were changes by one or two places with the different systems, there didn’t seem to be any way one could characterise any of them as being “right” or “wrong”. So I sulkily deleted the paper I’d already written for the club sailing committee…

Jim C