Rating changes

MikeB · 23 June 2011 07:39

Is it possible to change a boats rating during a regatta, and score some races with one rating and some with one (ore more) later ratings?

Mike Butterfield

Huw2 · 23 June 2011 07:54

Mike,

Yes ;-)

For the competitor and race in question, right click in result cell

and select Edit result then click on the Rating tab and you will see
an option box ‘Race rating’. By entering a value in the ‘Race
rating’ box you can have a specific rating used for that race and by
using the check box underneath it can then be used for subsequent
races until one does the same thing in a future race for the
competitor in question.

Kind regards,

Huw

···

On 23/06/2011 08:39, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

              Is it possible to change a boats rating during a
regatta, and score some races with one rating and some
with one (ore more) later ratings?

Mike Butterfield

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MikeB · 23 June 2011 08:17

Is there any way of importing a rating change for the whole fleet instead of doing it manually.

In Ireland they use echo and with this they have to use a different rating on a performance handicap basis for each race.

The calculation would be done externally at the moment.

A global import may solve the problem.

I am chair of the Protest Committee for the Dun Loaghaire regatta (up to 500 boats). They use sailwave, but have been asked to use echo progressive which appears to only be set up on sail100.

Mike

···

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 8:54 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Yes

For the competitor and race in question, right click in result cell and select Edit result then click on the Rating tab and you will see an option box ‘Race rating’. By entering a value in the ‘Race rating’ box you can have a specific rating used for that race and by using the check box underneath it can then be used for subsequent races until one does the same thing in a future race for the competitor in question.

Kind regards,
Huw

On 23/06/2011 08:39, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Is it possible to change a boats rating during a regatta, and score some races with one rating and some with one (ore more) later ratings?

Mike Butterfield

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Huw2 · 23 June 2011 08:32

Mike,

Quick aside - Is that the regatta were they are using digital pens

to record finish positions?

Anyway back to your question. It may be possible to bulk upload but

probably not in the short term. There is a Sailwave user who works
with me on a regular basis and they can do magic things with making
changes to a Sailwave .BLW file. I will speak to him on Skype in a
moment and see what he says. To assist that conversation could I
have more information about what is required or be put in touch with
the chief scorer.

Kind regards,

Huw

···

On 23/06/2011 09:17, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

              Is there any way of importing a rating change for
the whole fleet instead of doing it manually.

              In Ireland they use echo and with this they have to
use a different rating on a performance handicap basis
for each race.

              The calculation would be done externally at the

moment.

A global import may solve the problem.

              I am chair of the Protest Committee for the Dun
Loaghaire regatta (up to 500 boats). They use
sailwave, but have been asked to use echo progressive
which appears to only be set up on sail100.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 8:54 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,
                  Yes ;-)

                  For the competitor and race in question, right
click in result cell and select Edit result then
click on the Rating tab and you will see an option
box ‘Race rating’. By entering a value in the
‘Race rating’ box you can have a specific rating
used for that race and by using the check box
underneath it can then be used for subsequent
races until one does the same thing in a future
race for the competitor in question.
                  Kind regards,
                  Huw

                  On 23/06/2011 08:39, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

                          Is it possible to change a boats rating
during a regatta, and score some races
with one rating and some with one (ore
more) later ratings?

Mike Butterfield

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MikeB · 23 June 2011 08:40

Yes they do use the pens and intend to look at them.

Echo is a performance based handicap system, for this event all boats start of Echo Standard a sort of IRC for a type of boat.

After the first race a performance coefficient is calculated and used to update all the ratings. The new ratings are used for the next race and the same is repeated.

In the year system some races are weighted but championships have races ranked as one.

I believe a different weighting is given to older races a sort of progressive weighting. i am receiving tutorials on this at the moment.

Attached are a few files and i will send an e mail I received.

Mike

···

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:32 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Quick aside - Is that the regatta were they are using digital pens to record finish positions?

Anyway back to your question. It may be possible to bulk upload but probably not in the short term. There is a Sailwave user who works with me on a regular basis and they can do magic things with making changes to a Sailwave .BLW file. I will speak to him on Skype in a moment and see what he says. To assist that conversation could I have more information about what is required or be put in touch with the chief scorer.

Kind regards,
Huw

On 23/06/2011 09:17, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Is there any way of importing a rating change for the whole fleet instead of doing it manually.

In Ireland they use echo and with this they have to use a different rating on a performance handicap basis for each race.

The calculation would be done externally at the moment.

A global import may solve the problem.

I am chair of the Protest Committee for the Dun Loaghaire regatta (up to 500 boats). They use sailwave, but have been asked to use echo progressive which appears to only be set up on sail100.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 8:54 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Yes

For the competitor and race in question, right click in result cell and select Edit result then click on the Rating tab and you will see an option box ‘Race rating’. By entering a value in the ‘Race rating’ box you can have a specific rating used for that race and by using the check box underneath it can then be used for subsequent races until one does the same thing in a future race for the competitor in question.

Kind regards,
Huw

On 23/06/2011 08:39, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Is it possible to change a boats rating during a regatta, and score some races with one rating and some with one (ore more) later ratings?

Mike Butterfield

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Huw2 · 23 June 2011 09:11

Mike,

I have spoken to Jon Eskdale, who is a bit of a magician on

extracting information and writing information back into Sailwave
.BLW files, and he thinks what is required is possible. I don’t how
he is placed at the moment and the timescale a solution is required
in - seems like instant. Jon, I expect will reply to the SUG soon;
he is reading the attachments.

PS - I would be interested to hear your views on the Digital pens if

you have the chance to look at them. I have had a document from Ian
Bowring over there describing its use.

Kind regards,

Huw

···

On 23/06/2011 09:40, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

              Yes they do use the pens and intend to look at

them.

              Echo is a performance based handicap system, for
this event all boats start of Echo Standard a sort of
IRC for a type of boat.

              After the first race a performance coefficient is
calculated and used to update all the ratings. The new
ratings are used for the next race and the same is
repeated.

              In the year system some races are weighted but

championships have races ranked as one.

              I believe a different weighting is given to older
races a sort of progressive weighting. i am receiving
tutorials on this at the moment.

              Attached are a few files and i will send an e mail

I received.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:32 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,
                  Quick aside - Is that the regatta were they are
using digital pens to record finish positions?
                  Anyway back to your question. It may be possible
to bulk upload but probably not in the short term.
There is a Sailwave user who works with me on a
regular basis and they can do magic things with
making changes to a Sailwave .BLW file. I will
speak to him on Skype in a moment and see what he
says. To assist that conversation could I have
more information about what is required or be put
in touch with the chief scorer.
                  Kind regards,
                  Huw

                  On 23/06/2011 09:17, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

                          Is there any way of importing a rating
change for the whole fleet instead of
doing it manually.

                          In Ireland they use echo and with this
they have to use a different rating on a
performance handicap basis for each race.

                          The calculation would be done

externally at the moment.

A global import may solve the problem.

                          I am chair of the Protest Committee for
the Dun Loaghaire regatta (up to 500
boats). They use sailwave, but have been
asked to use echo progressive which
appears to only be set up on sail100.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23,
2011 8:54 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave]
Rating changes

Mike,
                              Yes ;-)

                              For the competitor and race in
question, right click in result cell
and select Edit result then click on
the Rating tab and you will see an
option box ‘Race rating’. By entering
a value in the ‘Race rating’ box you
can have a specific rating used for
that race and by using the check box
underneath it can then be used for
subsequent races until one does the
same thing in a future race for the
competitor in question.
                              Kind regards,
                              Huw

                              On 23/06/2011 08:39, Patricia > > Butterfield wrote:

                                      Is it possible to change a
boats rating during a regatta,
and score some races with one
rating and some with one (ore
more) later ratings?

Mike Butterfield

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MikeB · 23 June 2011 09:14

Ian is I believe chief scorer the regatta is 7th to 10th July.

Scoring is IRC and Echo so a double scoring system with alias perhaps.

Mike

···

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:11 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

I have spoken to Jon Eskdale, who is a bit of a magician on extracting information and writing information back into Sailwave .BLW files, and he thinks what is required is possible. I don’t how he is placed at the moment and the timescale a solution is required in - seems like instant. Jon, I expect will reply to the SUG soon; he is reading the attachments.

PS - I would be interested to hear your views on the Digital pens if you have the chance to look at them. I have had a document from Ian Bowring over there describing its use.

Kind regards,
Huw

On 23/06/2011 09:40, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Yes they do use the pens and intend to look at them.

Echo is a performance based handicap system, for this event all boats start of Echo Standard a sort of IRC for a type of boat.

After the first race a performance coefficient is calculated and used to update all the ratings. The new ratings are used for the next race and the same is repeated.

In the year system some races are weighted but championships have races ranked as one.

I believe a different weighting is given to older races a sort of progressive weighting. i am receiving tutorials on this at the moment.

Attached are a few files and i will send an e mail I received.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:32 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Quick aside - Is that the regatta were they are using digital pens to record finish positions?

Anyway back to your question. It may be possible to bulk upload but probably not in the short term. There is a Sailwave user who works with me on a regular basis and they can do magic things with making changes to a Sailwave .BLW file. I will speak to him on Skype in a moment and see what he says. To assist that conversation could I have more information about what is required or be put in touch with the chief scorer.

Kind regards,
Huw

On 23/06/2011 09:17, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Is there any way of importing a rating change for the whole fleet instead of doing it manually.

In Ireland they use echo and with this they have to use a different rating on a performance handicap basis for each race.

The calculation would be done externally at the moment.

A global import may solve the problem.

I am chair of the Protest Committee for the Dun Loaghaire regatta (up to 500 boats). They use sailwave, but have been asked to use echo progressive which appears to only be set up on sail100.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 8:54 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Yes

For the competitor and race in question, right click in result cell and select Edit result then click on the Rating tab and you will see an option box 'Race rating'. By entering a value in the 'Race rating' box you can have a specific rating used for that race and by using the check box underneath it can then be used for subsequent races until one does the same thing in a future race for the competitor in question.

Kind regards,
Huw

On 23/06/2011 08:39, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

  Is it possible to change a boats rating during a regatta, and score some races with one rating and some with one (ore more) later ratings?

Mike Butterfield

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Huw2 · 23 June 2011 09:22

Mike,

Thanks for the feedback. If Jon is up for the challenge then I would

expect he would be able to to provide a utility to export data from
Sailwave required for ECHO rating recalculation spreadsheet in an
agreed format and then write the updated ratings back in to Sailwave
from an agreed format file produced from the ECHO rating
spreadsheet.

Yes sounds like a job for Alias functionality, which is something I

have never used or needed to use.

Kind regards,

Huw

···

On 23/06/2011 10:14, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

              Ian is I believe chief scorer the regatta is 7th to

10th July.

              Scoring is IRC and Echo so a double scoring system

with alias perhaps.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:11 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,
                  I have spoken to Jon Eskdale, who is a bit of a
magician on extracting information and writing
information back into Sailwave .BLW files, and he
thinks what is required is possible. I don’t how
he is placed at the moment and the timescale a
solution is required in - seems like instant. Jon,
I expect will reply to the SUG soon; he is reading
the attachments.
                  PS - I would be interested to hear your views on
the Digital pens if you have the chance to look at
them. I have had a document from Ian Bowring over
there describing its use.
                  Kind regards,
                  Huw

                  On 23/06/2011 09:40, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

                          Yes they do use the pens and intend to

look at them.

                          Echo is a performance based handicap
system, for this event all boats start of
Echo Standard a sort of IRC for a type of
boat.

                          After the first race a performance
coefficient is calculated and used to
update all the ratings. The new ratings
are used for the next race and the same is
repeated.

                          In the year system some races are

weighted but championships have races
ranked as one.

                          I believe a different weighting is
given to older races a sort of progressive
weighting. i am receiving tutorials on
this at the moment.

                          Attached are a few files and i will

send an e mail I received.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23,
2011 9:32 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave]
Rating changes

Mike,
                              Quick aside - Is that the regatta were
they are using digital pens to record
finish positions?
                              Anyway back to your question. It may
be possible to bulk upload but
probably not in the short term. There
is a Sailwave user who works with me
on a regular basis and they can do
magic things with making changes to a
Sailwave .BLW file. I will speak to
him on Skype in a moment and see what
he says. To assist that conversation
could I have more information about
what is required or be put in touch
with the chief scorer.
                              Kind regards,
                              Huw

                              On 23/06/2011 09:17, Patricia > > Butterfield wrote:

                                      Is there any way of
importing a rating change for
the whole fleet instead of
doing it manually.

                                      In Ireland they use echo
and with this they have to use
a different rating on a
performance handicap basis for
each race.

                                      The calculation would be

done externally at the moment.

                                      A global import may solve

the problem.

                                      I am chair of the Protest
Committee for the Dun
Loaghaire regatta (up to 500
boats). They use sailwave, but
have been asked to use echo
progressive which appears to
only be set up on sail100.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent:
Thursday, June 23, 2011
8:54 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re:
[sailwave] Rating
changes

Mike,
                                          Yes ;-)

                                          For the competitor and
race in question, right
click in result cell and
select Edit result then
click on the Rating tab
and you will see an option
box ‘Race rating’. By
entering a value in the
‘Race rating’ box you can
have a specific rating
used for that race and by
using the check box
underneath it can then be
used for subsequent races
until one does the same
thing in a future race for
the competitor in
question.
                                          Kind regards,
                                          Huw

                                          On 23/06/2011 08:39, > > > Patricia Butterfield > > > wrote:

                                                  Is it possible
to change a boats
rating during a
regatta, and score
some races with
one rating and
some with one (ore
more) later
ratings?

                                                  Mike

Butterfield

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MikeB · 23 June 2011 09:25

Have used for double scoring IRC and PY boats in a cruiser fleet.

···

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:22 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Thanks for the feedback. If Jon is up for the challenge then I would expect he would be able to to provide a utility to export data from Sailwave required for ECHO rating recalculation spreadsheet in an agreed format and then write the updated ratings back in to Sailwave from an agreed format file produced from the ECHO rating spreadsheet.

Yes sounds like a job for Alias functionality, which is something I have never used or needed to use.

Kind regards,
Huw

On 23/06/2011 10:14, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Ian is I believe chief scorer the regatta is 7th to 10th July.

Scoring is IRC and Echo so a double scoring system with alias perhaps.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:11 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

I have spoken to Jon Eskdale, who is a bit of a magician on extracting information and writing information back into Sailwave .BLW files, and he thinks what is required is possible. I don’t how he is placed at the moment and the timescale a solution is required in - seems like instant. Jon, I expect will reply to the SUG soon; he is reading the attachments.

PS - I would be interested to hear your views on the Digital pens if you have the chance to look at them. I have had a document from Ian Bowring over there describing its use.

Kind regards,
Huw

On 23/06/2011 09:40, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Yes they do use the pens and intend to look at them.

Echo is a performance based handicap system, for this event all boats start of Echo Standard a sort of IRC for a type of boat.

After the first race a performance coefficient is calculated and used to update all the ratings. The new ratings are used for the next race and the same is repeated.

In the year system some races are weighted but championships have races ranked as one.

I believe a different weighting is given to older races a sort of progressive weighting. i am receiving tutorials on this at the moment.

Attached are a few files and i will send an e mail I received.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:32 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Quick aside - Is that the regatta were they are using digital pens to record finish positions?

Anyway back to your question. It may be possible to bulk upload but probably not in the short term. There is a Sailwave user who works with me on a regular basis and they can do magic things with making changes to a Sailwave .BLW file. I will speak to him on Skype in a moment and see what he says. To assist that conversation could I have more information about what is required or be put in touch with the chief scorer.

Kind regards,
Huw

On 23/06/2011 09:17, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

  Is there any way of importing a rating change for the whole fleet instead of doing it manually.

  In Ireland they use echo and with this they have to use a different rating on a performance handicap basis for each race.

The calculation would be done externally at the moment.

A global import may solve the problem.

  I am chair of the Protest Committee for the Dun Loaghaire regatta (up to 500 boats). They use sailwave, but have been asked to use echo progressive which appears to only be set up on sail100.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 8:54 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Yes

  For the competitor and race in question, right click in result cell and select Edit result then click on the Rating tab and you will see an option box 'Race rating'. By entering a value in the 'Race rating' box you can have a specific rating used for that race and by using the check box underneath it can then be used for subsequent races until one does the same thing in a future race for the competitor in question.

Kind regards,
Huw

  On 23/06/2011 08:39, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

    Is it possible to change a boats rating during a regatta, and score some races with one rating and some with one (ore more) later ratings?

Mike Butterfield

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Gordon_Davies · 23 June 2011 09:44

Mike,

Progressive ECHO can get complicated, to say the least.

As I understand it - handicaps are modified after every race so that

(with the new handicap) all boats would have finished in the middle
of the fleet (5th place in a 9 boat fleet). However there is then a
limit applied to the amount that the handicap can be adjusted.

Complications arise when redress is given. The boats that are scored

normally get their handicap adjusted, those that get redress do not.
Further fun and games can arise in a coastal race when a passage
time at a mark is used to score one race and the time at the finish
line is used to score a second race. Naturally, the handicap is
adjusted after scoring the shorter race before scoring the longer
race. In effect a boat sails the first part of the race with one
handicap and the whole race with another!

In addition, new boats to the ECHO system get a handicap penalty (to

dissuade trophy hunters) that decreases with each handicap change.

What is required is a means of calculating the new handicap after

every race and using this as the handicap for the subsequent race.

For details of the ECHO system:

for details of progressive ECHO...? Sail100 is set up to run

Progressive ECHO an dmost clubs use this. Gordon

···

http://www.sailing.ie/Portals/0/Racing%20Section/Echo/ECHO%20Guidelines.pdf

Mike,
          Quick aside - Is that the regatta were they are using
digital pens to record finish positions?
          Anyway back to your question. It may be possible to bulk
upload but probably not in the short term. There is a
Sailwave user who works with me on a regular basis and
they can do magic things with making changes to a Sailwave
.BLW file. I will speak to him on Skype in a moment and
see what he says. To assist that conversation could I have
more information about what is required or be put in touch
with the chief scorer.
          Kind regards,
          Huw

          On 23/06/2011 09:17, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

                  Is there any way of importing a rating change
for the whole fleet instead of doing it manually.

                  In Ireland they use echo and with this they
have to use a different rating on a performance
handicap basis for each race.

                  The calculation would be done externally at the

moment.

A global import may solve the problem.

                  I am chair of the Protest Committee for the Dun
Loaghaire regatta (up to 500 boats). They use
sailwave, but have been asked to use echo
progressive which appears to only be set up on
sail100.

Mike

From: Huw
Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 8:54
AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating
changes

Mike,
                      Yes ;-)

                      For the competitor and race in question, right
click in result cell and select Edit result
then click on the Rating tab and you will see
an option box ‘Race rating’. By entering a
value in the ‘Race rating’ box you can have a
specific rating used for that race and by
using the check box underneath it can then be
used for subsequent races until one does the
same thing in a future race for the competitor
in question.
                      Kind regards,
                      Huw

                      On 23/06/2011 08:39, Patricia Butterfield
wrote:

                              Is it possible to change a boats
rating during a regatta, and score
some races with one rating and some
with one (ore more) later ratings?

Mike Butterfield

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bowringi · 23 June 2011 10:01

Hi Mike, Huw,

Was travelling over the last couple of days, and missed this thread.

We are indeed intending to use the laser pens again (we used them first for the same regatta two years ago). I just need final confirmation from our friends in Australia that the server side is ready, and need to technically check a couple of new phones. Key objective is to have all results published before the first boats come ashore (and key inhibitor is the reluctance of recorders to hit the send button before they have double and triple checked!)
For the results, we make extensive use of aliases in Sailwave. Classes race with up to three handicaps simultaneously (e.g. IRC, Echo & Scratch for Beneteau 31.7’s), so aliases mean just inputing the results once, and generating three sets of results (means prizes for everyone! )
Including Aliases, we now have 32 classes racing over 7 courses with 528 entries (about 400 unique boats). This will likely rise a bit before we start.
I currently have a single ‘master’ sailwave file, but will split it into 4 separate files for faster scoring once registrations are complete. Happy to share the .blv with John if he feels like a challenge (and a few pint of Guinness).
As you point out Huw, changing hanicaps after every race is easy (edit result), though with about 100 boats sailing under progressive (Echo) handicap, the mass changes envisioned here would keep us busy for an extra hour each evening, so a batch load would be very useful. This certainly is not available with the standard program. When we last ran the event, we only updated about 5 progressive handicaps per day, so updating every progressive handicap is an interesting concept & challenge.

Ian.

···

----- Original Message -----

From:
Huw Pearce

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:22 AM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Thanks for the feedback. If Jon is up for the challenge then I would expect he would be able to to provide a utility to export data from Sailwave required for ECHO rating recalculation spreadsheet in an agreed format and then write the updated ratings back in to Sailwave from an agreed format file produced from the ECHO rating spreadsheet.

Yes sounds like a job for Alias functionality, which is something I have never used or needed to use.

Kind regards,
Huw

On 23/06/2011 10:14, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Ian is I believe chief scorer the regatta is 7th to 10th July.

Scoring is IRC and Echo so a double scoring system with alias perhaps.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:11 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

I have spoken to Jon Eskdale, who is a bit of a magician on extracting information and writing information back into Sailwave .BLW files, and he thinks what is required is possible.  I don't how he is placed at the moment and the timescale a solution is required in - seems like instant. Jon, I expect will reply to the SUG soon; he is reading the attachments.

PS - I would be interested to hear your views on the Digital pens if you have the chance to look at them. I have had a document from Ian Bowring over there describing its use.

Kind regards,

Huw

On 23/06/2011 09:40, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Yes they do use the pens and intend to look at them.

  Echo is a performance based handicap system, for this event all boats start of Echo Standard a sort of IRC for a type of boat.

  After the first race a performance coefficient is calculated and used to update all the ratings. The new ratings are used for the next race and the same is repeated.

  In the year system some races are weighted but championships have races ranked as one.

  I believe a different weighting is given to older races a sort of progressive weighting. i am receiving tutorials on this at the moment.

Attached are a few files and i will send an e mail I received.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:32 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

  Quick aside - Is that the regatta were they are using digital pens to record finish positions?

  Anyway back to your question. It may be possible to bulk upload but probably not in the short term. There is a Sailwave user who works with me on a regular basis and they can do magic things with making changes to a Sailwave .BLW file. I will speak to him on Skype in a moment and see what he says. To assist that conversation could I have more information about what is required or be put in touch with the chief scorer.

  Kind regards,

Huw

On 23/06/2011 09:17, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

    Is there any way of importing a rating change for the whole fleet instead of doing it manually.

    In Ireland they use echo and with this they have to use a different rating on a performance handicap basis for each race.

The calculation would be done externally at the moment.

A global import may solve the problem.

    I am chair of the Protest Committee for the Dun Loaghaire regatta (up to 500 boats). They use sailwave, but have been asked to use echo progressive which appears to only be set up on sail100.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 8:54 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Yes

    For the competitor and race in question, right click in result cell and select Edit result then click on the Rating tab and you will see an option box 'Race rating'. By entering a value in the 'Race rating' box you can have a specific rating used for that race and by using the check box underneath it can then be used for subsequent races until one does the same thing in a future race for the competitor in question.

Kind regards,
Huw

    On 23/06/2011 08:39, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

      Is it possible to change a boats rating during a regatta, and score some races with one rating and some with one (ore more) later ratings?

Mike Butterfield

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Eskdale · 23 June 2011 10:30

Hi Ian,

Yes I always like a challenge!

So what format will the Handicaps be in? csv or xls or something else?
What is the timescale? I’m doing results for a Windsurfing Cup event at the Mumbles (The home of Sailwave ) this weekend but should have some time Next week to look at it.
Regards

Jon

···

On 23 June 2011 11:01, Ian Bowring bowringi@eircom.net wrote:

Hi Mike, Huw,

Was travelling over the last couple of days, and missed this thread.

We are indeed intending to use the laser pens again (we used them first for the same regatta two years ago). I just need final confirmation from our friends in Australia that the server side is ready, and need to technically check a couple of new phones. Key objective is to have all results published before the first boats come ashore (and key inhibitor is the reluctance of recorders to hit the send button before they have double and triple checked!)

For the results, we make extensive use of aliases in Sailwave. Classes race with up to three handicaps simultaneously (e.g. IRC, Echo & Scratch for Beneteau 31.7’s), so aliases mean just inputing the results once, and generating three sets of results (means prizes for everyone! )

Including Aliases, we now have 32 classes racing over 7 courses with 528 entries (about 400 unique boats). This will likely rise a bit before we start.

I currently have a single ‘master’ sailwave file, but will split it into 4 separate files for faster scoring once registrations are complete. Happy to share the .blv with John if he feels like a challenge (and a few pint of Guinness).

As you point out Huw, changing hanicaps after every race is easy (edit result), though with about 100 boats sailing under progressive (Echo) handicap, the mass changes envisioned here would keep us busy for an extra hour each evening, so a batch load would be very useful. This certainly is not available with the standard program. When we last ran the event, we only updated about 5 progressive handicaps per day, so updating every progressive handicap is an interesting concept & challenge.

Ian.

----- Original Message -----

From:
Huw Pearce

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:22 AM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Thanks for the feedback. If Jon is up for the challenge then I would expect he would be able to to provide a utility to export data from Sailwave required for ECHO rating recalculation spreadsheet in an agreed format and then write the updated ratings back in to Sailwave from an agreed format file produced from the ECHO rating spreadsheet.

Yes sounds like a job for Alias functionality, which is something I have never used or needed to use.

Kind regards,
Huw

On 23/06/2011 10:14, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Ian is I believe chief scorer the regatta is 7th to 10th July.

Scoring is IRC and Echo so a double scoring system with alias perhaps.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:11 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

I have spoken to Jon Eskdale, who is a bit of a magician on extracting information and writing information back into Sailwave .BLW files, and he thinks what is required is possible.  I don't how he is placed at the moment and the timescale a solution is required in - seems like instant. Jon, I expect will reply to the SUG soon; he is reading the attachments.

PS - I would be interested to hear your views on the Digital pens if you have the chance to look at them. I have had a document from Ian Bowring over there describing its use.

Kind regards,

Huw

On 23/06/2011 09:40, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Yes they do use the pens and intend to look at them.

  Echo is a performance based handicap system, for this event all boats start of Echo Standard a sort of IRC for a type of boat.

  After the first race a performance coefficient is calculated and used to update all the ratings. The new ratings are used for the next race and the same is repeated.

  In the year system some races are weighted but championships have races ranked as one.

  I believe a different weighting is given to older races a sort of progressive weighting. i am receiving tutorials on this at the moment.

Attached are a few files and i will send an e mail I received.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:32 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

  Quick aside - Is that the regatta were they are using digital pens to record finish positions?

  Anyway back to your question. It may be possible to bulk upload but probably not in the short term. There is a Sailwave user who works with me on a regular basis and they can do magic things with making changes to a Sailwave .BLW file. I will speak to him on Skype in a moment and see what he says. To assist that conversation could I have more information about what is required or be put in touch with the chief scorer.

  Kind regards,

Huw

On 23/06/2011 09:17, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

    Is there any way of importing a rating change for the whole fleet instead of doing it manually.

    In Ireland they use echo and with this they have to use a different rating on a performance handicap basis for each race.

The calculation would be done externally at the moment.

A global import may solve the problem.

    I am chair of the Protest Committee for the Dun Loaghaire regatta (up to 500 boats). They use sailwave, but have been asked to use echo progressive which appears to only be set up on sail100.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 8:54 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Yes

    For the competitor and race in question, right click in result cell and select Edit result then click on the Rating tab and you will see an option box 'Race rating'. By entering a value in the 'Race rating' box you can have a specific rating used for that race and by using the check box underneath it can then be used for subsequent races until one does the same thing in a future race for the competitor in question.

Kind regards,
Huw

    On 23/06/2011 08:39, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

      Is it possible to change a boats rating during a regatta, and score some races with one rating and some with one (ore more) later ratings?

Mike Butterfield

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Huw2 · 23 June 2011 10:32

Hi Gordon,

Thanks for joining the discussion.  I agree having read the

documentation that if the functionality to do ECHO
progressive handicapping were built-in to Sailwave it is not
something that can be rushed. It is a BIG if in my view and my ‘* two
cents worth*’ is in the following paragraphs.

It must be remembered that Sailwave is sail racing results program

not a progressive/personal handicapping calculator, although there
is some functionality for back calculating ratings within Sailwave.
I believe it is best to leave the recalculation of ratings outside
of Sailwave but, if as Colin has inferred in the past, a Sailwave
API was available which allowed the direct linking of external
routines that do processing based on data held in Sailwave and then
return data to fields in Sailwave that would be fantastic. Colin has
more than enough to do keeping up with requirements of scoring a
series of races without adding in functionality for one or more
progressive/personal handicapping algorithms.

At present what is being investigated is a way of taking a revised

set of ratings, however calculated, and bulk loading back into
Sailwave. The recalculation of ratings handled by a mechanism
external to Sailwave. This way of doing things has wider use as
others can develop alternative personal/progressive handicapping
algorithms and bulk upload there rating changes as well.

A utility is already available that can bulk load race data - finish

position, corrected time, number of laps - into Sailwave from a CSV
file; this was done at the RYA Youth Championships this year, it can
also read data from a tracking database. So the techniques and
understanding of the .BLW data structure is known; therefore it
should be not to difficult to extend, or write another utility, do
the same for rating changes. But not being a programmer that is easy
for me to say However, I am confident , if he decides to take it
up, that the person who wrote the utility just mentioned and another
to assist at prizegivings by providing a list prize winners, will be
able do a bulk upload of rating changes.

Kind regards,
Huw

···

http://www.sailing.ie/Portals/0/Racing%20Section/Echo/ECHO%20Guidelines.pdf

MikeB · 23 June 2011 10:48

The handicaps could be put in an excel file.

The event is 7th to 10th July

Mike

···

From: Jon Eskdale

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:30 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Hi Ian,

Yes I always like a challenge!

So what format will the Handicaps be in? csv or xls or something else?
What is the timescale? I’m doing results for a Windsurfing Cup event at the Mumbles (The home of Sailwave ) this weekend but should have some time Next week to look at it.
Regards

Jon

On 23 June 2011 11:01, Ian Bowring bowringi@eircom.net wrote:

Hi Mike, Huw,

Was travelling over the last couple of days, and missed this thread.

We are indeed intending to use the laser pens again (we used them first for the same regatta two years ago). I just need final confirmation from our friends in Australia that the server side is ready, and need to technically check a couple of new phones. Key objective is to have all results published before the first boats come ashore (and key inhibitor is the reluctance of recorders to hit the send button before they have double and triple checked!)

For the results, we make extensive use of aliases in Sailwave. Classes race with up to three handicaps simultaneously (e.g. IRC, Echo & Scratch for Beneteau 31.7’s), so aliases mean just inputing the results once, and generating three sets of results (means prizes for everyone! )

Including Aliases, we now have 32 classes racing over 7 courses with 528 entries (about 400 unique boats). This will likely rise a bit before we start.

I currently have a single ‘master’ sailwave file, but will split it into 4 separate files for faster scoring once registrations are complete. Happy to share the .blv with John if he feels like a challenge (and a few pint of Guinness).

As you point out Huw, changing hanicaps after every race is easy (edit result), though with about 100 boats sailing under progressive (Echo) handicap, the mass changes envisioned here would keep us busy for an extra hour each evening, so a batch load would be very useful. This certainly is not available with the standard program. When we last ran the event, we only updated about 5 progressive handicaps per day, so updating every progressive handicap is an interesting concept & challenge.

Ian.

----- Original Message -----

From: Huw Pearce

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:22 AM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Thanks for the feedback. If Jon is up for the challenge then I would expect he would be able to to provide a utility to export data from Sailwave required for ECHO rating recalculation spreadsheet in an agreed format and then write the updated ratings back in to Sailwave from an agreed format file produced from the ECHO rating spreadsheet.

Yes sounds like a job for Alias functionality, which is something I have never used  or needed to use.

Kind regards,
Huw

On 23/06/2011 10:14, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Ian is I believe chief scorer the regatta is 7th to 10th July.

  Scoring is IRC and Echo so a double scoring system with alias perhaps.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:11 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

  I have spoken to Jon Eskdale, who is a bit of a magician on extracting information and writing information back into Sailwave .BLW files, and he thinks what is required is possible.  I don't how he is placed at the moment and the timescale a solution is required in - seems like instant. Jon, I expect will reply to the SUG soon; he is reading the attachments.

  PS - I would be interested to hear your views on the Digital pens if you have the chance to look at them. I have had a document from Ian Bowring over there describing its use.

  Kind regards,

Huw

On 23/06/2011 09:40, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Yes they do use the pens and intend to look at them.

    Echo is a performance based handicap system, for this event all boats start of Echo Standard a sort of IRC for a type of boat.

    After the first race a performance coefficient is calculated and used to update all the ratings. The new ratings are used for the next race and the same is repeated.

    In the year system some races are weighted but championships have races ranked as one.

    I believe a different weighting is given to older races a sort of progressive weighting. i am receiving tutorials on this at the moment.

Attached are a few files and i will send an e mail I received.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:32 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

    Quick aside - Is that the regatta were they are using digital pens to record finish positions?

    Anyway back to your question. It may be possible to bulk upload but probably not in the short term. There is a Sailwave user who works with me on a regular basis and they can do magic things with making changes to a Sailwave .BLW file. I will speak to him on Skype in a moment and see what he says. To assist that conversation could I have more information about what is required or be put in touch with the chief scorer.

    Kind regards,

Huw

On 23/06/2011 09:17, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

      Is there any way of importing a rating change for the whole fleet instead of doing it manually.

      In Ireland they use echo and with this they have to use a different rating on a performance handicap basis for each race.

The calculation would be done externally at the moment.

A global import may solve the problem.

      I am chair of the Protest Committee for the Dun Loaghaire regatta (up to 500 boats). They use sailwave, but have been asked to use echo progressive which appears to only be set up on sail100.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 8:54 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Yes

      For the competitor and race in question, right click in result cell and select Edit result then click on the Rating tab and you will see an option box 'Race rating'. By entering a value in the 'Race rating' box you can have a specific rating used for that race and by using the check box underneath it can then be used for subsequent races until one does the same thing in a future race for the competitor in question.

      Kind regards,

Huw

      On 23/06/2011 08:39, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

        Is it possible to change a boats rating during a regatta, and score some races with one rating and some with one (ore more) later ratings?

Mike Butterfield

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Huw2 · 23 June 2011 10:49

Ian,

You have missed this thread it only started today!

I know you have been in conversation with Jon on importing data from

tracker systems. So in my view, although as I said in a recently
posted reply to this thread, I am not a programmer. However, As the
utility Jon has created is already writing individual competitor
race data into the Sailwave .BLW and the race rating is part of this
data set then I think it will be fairly easy for Jon to provide
functionality to bulk upload updated ratings to the appropriate
place.

I am sure that Jon will let me know soon enough if I am completely

mistaken. FYI - Jon I have worked together on scoring S4G, and other
major RYA events of the last couple of years and Colin has been a
‘virtual’ member of several of the results teams.

We were using at S4G this year special versions of Sailwave, I think

Colin updated the executable 7 or 8 time during S4G, to deal with
things that occurred during the event. Hopefully he will find the
time to package up and release for general consumption soon, but I
know that he is very busy with real work at the moment.

One key thing implemented, in our Sailwave specials, was flexibility

in RDGa calculations; this meant I did not have to remember to go
and lock down the average points before the final day of racing or
at the end of the Q-series.

Still a couple of wrinkles in respect of Q-series and F-series plus

ideally auto set-up when a medal race is involved to be resolved.

Which version of Sailwave are you intending to use for your regatta?

Also for information, what is the regatta called?

All the best with the scoring

Kind regards,

Huw

···

On 23/06/2011 11:01, Ian Bowring wrote:

Hi Mike, Huw,

            Was travelling over the
last couple of days, and missed this thread.

            - We are indeed intending
to use the laser pens again (we used them first for the
same regatta two years ago). I just need final
confirmation from our friends in Australia that the
server side is ready, and need to technically check a
couple of new phones. Key objective is to have all
results published before the first boats come ashore
(and key inhibitor is the reluctance of recorders to hit
the send button before they have double and triple
checked!)

            - For the results, we make
extensive use of aliases in Sailwave. Classes race with
up to three handicaps simultaneously (e.g. IRC, Echo
& Scratch for Beneteau 31.7’s), so aliases mean just
inputing the results once, and generating three sets of
results (means prizes for everyone! )

            - Including Aliases, we now
have 32 classes racing over 7 courses with 528 entries
(about 400 unique boats). This will likely rise a bit
before we start.

            - I currently have a single
‘master’ sailwave file, but will split it into 4
separate files for faster scoring once registrations are
complete. Happy to share the .blv with John if he feels
like a challenge (and a few pint of Guinness).

            - As you point out Huw,
changing hanicaps after every race is easy (edit
result), though with about 100 boats sailing under
progressive (Echo) handicap, the mass changes envisioned
here would keep us busy for an extra hour each evening,
so a batch load would be very useful. This certainly is
not available with the standard program. When we last
ran the event, we only updated about 5 progressive
handicaps per day, so updating every progressive
handicap is an interesting concept & challenge.

Ian.

            ----- Original Message

From: Huw Pearce

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June
23, 2011 10:22 AM

Subject: Re:
[sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,
              Thanks for the feedback. If Jon is up for the
challenge then I would expect he would be able to to
provide a utility to export data from Sailwave
required for ECHO rating recalculation spreadsheet in
an agreed format and then write the updated ratings
back in to Sailwave from an agreed format file
produced from the ECHO rating spreadsheet.
              Yes sounds like a job for Alias functionality, which
is something I have never used or needed to use.
              Kind regards,
              Huw

              On 23/06/2011 10:14, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

                      Ian is I believe chief scorer the regatta

is 7th to 10th July.

                      Scoring is IRC and Echo so a double scoring

system with alias perhaps.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011
10:11 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating
changes

Mike,
                          I have spoken to Jon Eskdale, who is a bit
of a magician on extracting information
and writing information back into Sailwave
.BLW files, and he thinks what is required
is possible. I don’t how he is placed at
the moment and the timescale a solution is
required in - seems like instant. Jon, I
expect will reply to the SUG soon; he is
reading the attachments.
                          PS - I would be interested to hear your
views on the Digital pens if you have the
chance to look at them. I have had a
document from Ian Bowring over there
describing its use.
                          Kind regards,
                          Huw

                          On 23/06/2011 09:40, Patricia Butterfield > > > wrote:

                                  Yes they do use the pens and

intend to look at them.

                                  Echo is a performance based
handicap system, for this event
all boats start of Echo Standard a
sort of IRC for a type of boat.

                                  After the first race a
performance coefficient is
calculated and used to update all
the ratings. The new ratings are
used for the next race and the
same is repeated.

                                  In the year system some races

are weighted but championships
have races ranked as one.

                                  I believe a different weighting
is given to older races a sort of
progressive weighting. i am
receiving tutorials on this at the
moment.

                                  Attached are a few files and i

will send an e mail I received.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday,
June 23, 2011 9:32 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re:
[sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,
                                      Quick aside - Is that the
regatta were they are using
digital pens to record finish
positions?
                                      Anyway back to your question.
It may be possible to bulk
upload but probably not in the
short term. There is a
Sailwave user who works with
me on a regular basis and they
can do magic things with
making changes to a Sailwave
.BLW file. I will speak to him
on Skype in a moment and see
what he says. To assist that
conversation could I have more
information about what is
required or be put in touch
with the chief scorer.
                                      Kind regards,
                                      Huw

                                      On 23/06/2011 09:17, Patricia > > > > Butterfield wrote:

                                              Is there any way of

importing a rating
change for the whole
fleet instead of doing
it manually.

                                              In Ireland they use
echo and with this
they have to use a
different rating on a
performance handicap
basis for each race.

                                              The calculation

would be done
externally at the
moment.

                                              A global import may

solve the problem.

                                              I am chair of the
Protest Committee for
the Dun Loaghaire
regatta (up to 500
boats). They use
sailwave, but have
been asked to use echo
progressive which
appears to only be set
up on sail100.

Mike

From:
Huw
Pearce

Sent:
Thursday, June
23, 2011 8:54 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject:
Re: [sailwave]
Rating changes

Mike,
                                                  Yes ;-)

                                                  For the competitor
and race in
question, right
click in result
cell and select
Edit result then
click on the
Rating tab and you
will see an option
box ‘Race rating’.
By entering a
value in the ‘Race
rating’ box you
can have a
specific rating
used for that race
and by using the
check box
underneath it can
then be used for
subsequent races
until one does the
same thing in a
future race for
the competitor in
question.
                                                  Kind regards,
                                                  Huw

                                                  On 23/06/2011 > > > > > 08:39, Patricia > > > > > Butterfield wrote:

                                                      Is it
possible to
change a boats
rating during
a regatta, and
score some
races with one
rating and
some with one
(ore more)
later ratings?

                                                      Mike

Butterfield

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bowringi · 23 June 2011 11:26

Huw,

I happen to be on 2.02 build 5 at the moment myself, but have to emotional tie to a given release! I hope our jury (Mike and team) will be kind to the scorers in granting redress. I’ve always favoured keel-hauling over scoring changes.

The event is the Volvo Dun Laoghaire Regatta ( http://dlregatta.org ) on from the 7th-10th July 2011. It runs alternate years to Cork Week, as might be described as Ireland’s Cowes Week.

Your S4G work is of even greater interest to us in respect of next years big event, the 2012 ISAF Youth Sailing World Championship ( http://www.dublinbay2012.com). It is likely that we will be replicating much of what was done in S4G. This is also where the query on integration of tracking data originates from, and I see you also used TracTrac. However, that’s a conversation for after the 10th July!

Ian.

···

From: Huw Pearce

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:49 AM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Ian,

You have missed this thread it only started today!

I know you have been in conversation with Jon on importing data from tracker systems. So in my view, although as I said in a recently posted reply to this thread, I am not a programmer. However, As the utility Jon has created is already writing individual competitor race data into the Sailwave .BLW and the race rating is part of this data set then I think it will be fairly easy for Jon to provide functionality to bulk upload updated ratings to the appropriate place.

I am sure that Jon will let me know soon enough if I am completely mistaken. FYI - Jon I have worked together on scoring S4G, and other major RYA events of the last couple of years and Colin has been a ‘virtual’ member of several of the results teams.

We were using at S4G this year special versions of Sailwave, I think Colin updated the executable 7 or 8 time during S4G, to deal with things that occurred during the event. Hopefully he will find the time to package up and release for general consumption soon, but I know that he is very busy with real work at the moment.

One key thing implemented, in our Sailwave specials, was flexibility in RDGa calculations; this meant I did not have to remember to go and lock down the average points before the final day of racing or at the end of the Q-series.

Still a couple of wrinkles in respect of Q-series and F-series plus ideally auto set-up when a medal race is involved to be resolved.

Which version of Sailwave are you intending to use for your regatta? Also for information, what is the regatta called?

All the best with the scoring
Kind regards,
Huw

On 23/06/2011 11:01, Ian Bowring wrote:

Hi Mike, Huw,

Was travelling over the last couple of days, and missed this thread.

- We are indeed intending to use the laser pens again (we used them first for the same regatta two years ago).  I just need final confirmation from our friends in Australia that the server side is ready, and need to technically check a couple of new phones.   Key objective is to have all results published before the first boats come ashore (and key inhibitor is the reluctance of recorders to hit the send button before they have double and triple checked!)

- For the results, we make extensive use of aliases in Sailwave.  Classes race with up to three handicaps simultaneously (e.g. IRC, Echo & Scratch for Beneteau 31.7's), so aliases mean just inputing the results once, and generating three sets of results (means prizes for everyone! :-) )

- Including Aliases, we now have 32 classes racing over 7 courses with 528 entries (about 400 unique boats).  This will likely rise a bit before we start.

- I currently have a single 'master' sailwave file, but will split it into 4 separate files for faster scoring once registrations are complete.  Happy to share the .blv with John if he feels like a challenge (and a few pint of Guinness).

- As you point out Huw, changing hanicaps after every race is easy (edit result), though with about 100 boats sailing under progressive (Echo) handicap, the mass changes envisioned here would keep us busy for an extra hour each evening, so a batch load would be very useful.  This certainly is not available with the standard program.  When we last ran the event, we only updated about 5 progressive handicaps per day, so updating every progressive handicap is an interesting concept & challenge.

Ian.

----- Original Message -----

From: Huw Pearce

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:22 AM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

  Thanks for the feedback. If Jon is up for the challenge then I would expect he would be able to to provide a utility to export data from Sailwave required for ECHO rating recalculation spreadsheet in an agreed format and then write the updated ratings back in to Sailwave from an agreed format file produced from the ECHO rating spreadsheet.

  Yes sounds like a job for Alias functionality, which is something I have never used  or needed to use.

  Kind regards,

Huw

On 23/06/2011 10:14, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Ian is I believe chief scorer the regatta is 7th to 10th July.

    Scoring is IRC and Echo so a double scoring system with alias perhaps.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:11 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

    I have spoken to Jon Eskdale, who is a bit of a magician on extracting information and writing information back into Sailwave .BLW files, and he thinks what is required is possible.  I don't how he is placed at the moment and the timescale a solution is required in - seems like instant. Jon, I expect will reply to the SUG soon; he is reading the attachments.

    PS - I would be interested to hear your views on the Digital pens if you have the chance to look at them. I have had a document from Ian Bowring over there describing its use.

Kind regards,
Huw

    On 23/06/2011 09:40, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Yes they do use the pens and intend to look at them.

      Echo is a performance based handicap system, for this event all boats start of Echo Standard a sort of IRC for a type of boat.

      After the first race a performance coefficient is calculated and used to update all the ratings. The new ratings are used for the next race and the same is repeated.

      In the year system some races are weighted but championships have races ranked as one.

      I believe a different weighting is given to older races a sort of progressive weighting. i am receiving tutorials on this at the moment.

      Attached are a few files and i will send an e mail I received.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:32 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

      Quick aside - Is that the regatta were they are using digital pens to record finish positions?

      Anyway back to your question. It may be possible to bulk upload but probably not in the short term. There is a Sailwave user who works with me on a regular basis and they can do magic things with making changes to a Sailwave .BLW file. I will speak to him on Skype in a moment and see what he says. To assist that conversation could I have more information about what is required or be put in touch with the chief scorer.

      Kind regards,

Huw

      On 23/06/2011 09:17, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

        Is there any way of importing a rating change for the whole fleet instead of doing it manually.

        In Ireland they use echo and with this they have to use a different rating on a performance handicap basis for each race.

The calculation would be done externally at the moment.

A global import may solve the problem.

        I am chair of the Protest Committee for the Dun Loaghaire regatta (up to 500 boats). They use sailwave, but have been asked to use echo progressive which appears to only be set up on sail100.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 8:54 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Yes

        For the competitor and race in question, right click in result cell and select Edit result then click on the Rating tab and you will see an option box 'Race rating'. By entering a value in the 'Race rating' box you can have a specific rating used for that race and by using the check box underneath it can then be used for subsequent races until one does the same thing in a future race for the competitor in question.

Kind regards,
Huw

        On 23/06/2011 08:39, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

          Is it possible to change a boats rating during a regatta, and score some races with one rating and some with one (ore more) later ratings?

Mike Butterfield

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Eskdale · 23 June 2011 11:38

Hi Ian,

2.02 build 5 that’s a good vintage. It’s a nice stable build and as long as you don’t have any of the Vista / Windows 7 issues and you don’t need the changes that we did in S4G then I would stick with that one for the time being. I was on 2.02 build 5 myself until I had to upgrade at the S4G.

Jon

···

On 23 June 2011 12:26, Ian Bowring bowringi@eircom.net wrote:

Huw,

I happen to be on 2.02 build 5 at the moment myself, but have to emotional tie to a given release! I hope our jury (Mike and team) will be kind to the scorers in granting redress. I’ve always favoured keel-hauling over scoring changes.

The event is the Volvo Dun Laoghaire Regatta ( http://dlregatta.org ) on from the 7th-10th July 2011. It runs alternate years to Cork Week, as might be described as Ireland’s Cowes Week.

Your S4G work is of even greater interest to us in respect of next years big event, the 2012 ISAF Youth Sailing World Championship ( http://www.dublinbay2012.com). It is likely that we will be replicating much of what was done in S4G. This is also where the query on integration of tracking data originates from, and I see you also used TracTrac. However, that’s a conversation for after the 10th July!

Ian.

From: Huw Pearce

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:49 AM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Ian,

You have missed this thread it only started today!

I know you have been in conversation with Jon on importing data from tracker systems. So in my view, although as I said in a recently posted reply to this thread, I am not a programmer. However, As the utility Jon has created is already writing individual competitor race data into the Sailwave .BLW and the race rating is part of this data set then I think it will be fairly easy for Jon to provide functionality to bulk upload updated ratings to the appropriate place.

I am sure that Jon will let me know soon enough if I am completely mistaken. FYI - Jon I have worked together on scoring S4G, and other major RYA events of the last couple of years and Colin has been a ‘virtual’ member of several of the results teams.

We were using at S4G this year special versions of Sailwave, I think Colin updated the executable 7 or 8 time during S4G, to deal with things that occurred during the event. Hopefully he will find the time to package up and release for general consumption soon, but I know that he is very busy with real work at the moment.

One key thing implemented, in our Sailwave specials, was flexibility in RDGa calculations; this meant I did not have to remember to go and lock down the average points before the final day of racing or at the end of the Q-series.

Still a couple of wrinkles in respect of Q-series and F-series plus ideally auto set-up when a medal race is involved to be resolved.

Which version of Sailwave are you intending to use for your regatta? Also for information, what is the regatta called?

All the best with the scoring
Kind regards,
Huw

On 23/06/2011 11:01, Ian Bowring wrote:

Hi Mike, Huw,

Was travelling over the last couple of days, and missed this thread.

- We are indeed intending to use the laser pens again (we used them first for the same regatta two years ago).  I just need final confirmation from our friends in Australia that the server side is ready, and need to technically check a couple of new phones.   Key objective is to have all results published before the first boats come ashore (and key inhibitor is the reluctance of recorders to hit the send button before they have double and triple checked!)

- For the results, we make extensive use of aliases in Sailwave.  Classes race with up to three handicaps simultaneously (e.g. IRC, Echo & Scratch for Beneteau 31.7's), so aliases mean just inputing the results once, and generating three sets of results (means prizes for everyone! :-) )

- Including Aliases, we now have 32 classes racing over 7 courses with 528 entries (about 400 unique boats).  This will likely rise a bit before we start.

- I currently have a single 'master' sailwave file, but will split it into 4 separate files for faster scoring once registrations are complete.  Happy to share the .blv with John if he feels like a challenge (and a few pint of Guinness).

- As you point out Huw, changing hanicaps after every race is easy (edit result), though with about 100 boats sailing under progressive (Echo) handicap, the mass changes envisioned here would keep us busy for an extra hour each evening, so a batch load would be very useful.  This certainly is not available with the standard program.  When we last ran the event, we only updated about 5 progressive handicaps per day, so updating every progressive handicap is an interesting concept & challenge.

Ian.

----- Original Message -----

From: Huw Pearce

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:22 AM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

  Thanks for the feedback. If Jon is up for the challenge then I would expect he would be able to to provide a utility to export data from Sailwave required for ECHO rating recalculation spreadsheet in an agreed format and then write the updated ratings back in to Sailwave from an agreed format file produced from the ECHO rating spreadsheet.

  Yes sounds like a job for Alias functionality, which is something I have never used  or needed to use.

  Kind regards,

Huw

On 23/06/2011 10:14, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Ian is I believe chief scorer the regatta is 7th to 10th July.

    Scoring is IRC and Echo so a double scoring system with alias perhaps.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:11 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

    I have spoken to Jon Eskdale, who is a bit of a magician on extracting information and writing information back into Sailwave .BLW files, and he thinks what is required is possible.  I don't how he is placed at the moment and the timescale a solution is required in - seems like instant. Jon, I expect will reply to the SUG soon; he is reading the attachments.

    PS - I would be interested to hear your views on the Digital pens if you have the chance to look at them. I have had a document from Ian Bowring over there describing its use.

Kind regards,
Huw

    On 23/06/2011 09:40, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Yes they do use the pens and intend to look at them.

      Echo is a performance based handicap system, for this event all boats start of Echo Standard a sort of IRC for a type of boat.

      After the first race a performance coefficient is calculated and used to update all the ratings. The new ratings are used for the next race and the same is repeated.

      In the year system some races are weighted but championships have races ranked as one.

      I believe a different weighting is given to older races a sort of progressive weighting. i am receiving tutorials on this at the moment.

      Attached are a few files and i will send an e mail I received.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:32 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

      Quick aside - Is that the regatta were they are using digital pens to record finish positions?

      Anyway back to your question. It may be possible to bulk upload but probably not in the short term. There is a Sailwave user who works with me on a regular basis and they can do magic things with making changes to a Sailwave .BLW file. I will speak to him on Skype in a moment and see what he says. To assist that conversation could I have more information about what is required or be put in touch with the chief scorer.

      Kind regards,

Huw

      On 23/06/2011 09:17, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

        Is there any way of importing a rating change for the whole fleet instead of doing it manually.

        In Ireland they use echo and with this they have to use a different rating on a performance handicap basis for each race.

The calculation would be done externally at the moment.

A global import may solve the problem.

        I am chair of the Protest Committee for the Dun Loaghaire regatta (up to 500 boats). They use sailwave, but have been asked to use echo progressive which appears to only be set up on sail100.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 8:54 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Yes

        For the competitor and race in question, right click in result cell and select Edit result then click on the Rating tab and you will see an option box 'Race rating'. By entering a value in the 'Race rating' box you can have a specific rating used for that race and by using the check box underneath it can then be used for subsequent races until one does the same thing in a future race for the competitor in question.

Kind regards,
Huw

        On 23/06/2011 08:39, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

          Is it possible to change a boats rating during a regatta, and score some races with one rating and some with one (ore more) later ratings?

Mike Butterfield

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bowringi · 23 June 2011 11:42

Jon,

Outstanding, thanks. For the progressive handicaps, I would envisage working as follows:

Score race as normal in sailwave
Use “Export Series Summary to Windows Clipboard” function to export appropriate race details
Import into Excel
Run appropriate handicapping revision algorithm in Excel to create create new handicaps
Export new handicaps from Excel and import into Sailwave using Jon’s magic program!

The updates in question will not update the base boat rating/handicap (on competitor data file), but rather the race specific data, normally accessed by right click on the result. select “edit result”, select “rating” tab, enter new value for “rating this race”, check box “use until the next race rating is specified”.

Without a magic program, the process is the same, but the update in step 5 is done manually.

btw, regatta starts on July 7th.

Thanks again.

Ian.

···

----- Original Message -----

From:
Jon Eskdale

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:30 AM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Hi Ian,

Yes I always like a challenge!

So what format will the Handicaps be in?  csv or xls or something else?

What is the timescale? I'm doing results for a Windsurfing Cup event at the Mumbles (The home of Sailwave ) this weekend but should have some time Next week to look at it.

Regards

Jon

On 23 June 2011 11:01, Ian Bowring bowringi@eircom.net > wrote:

Hi Mike, Huw,

Was travelling over the last couple of days, and missed this thread.

- We are indeed intending to use the laser pens again (we used them first for the same regatta two years ago).  I just need final confirmation from our friends in Australia that the server side is ready, and need to technically check a couple of new phones.   Key objective is to have all results published before the first boats come ashore (and key inhibitor is the reluctance of recorders to hit the send button before they have double and triple checked!)

- For the results, we make extensive use of aliases in Sailwave.  Classes race with up to three handicaps simultaneously (e.g. IRC, Echo & Scratch for Beneteau 31.7's), so aliases mean just inputing the results once, and generating three sets of results (means prizes for everyone! :-) )

- Including Aliases, we now have 32 classes racing over 7 courses with 528 entries (about 400 unique boats).  This will likely rise a bit before we start.

- I currently have a single 'master' sailwave file, but will split it into 4 separate files for faster scoring once registrations are complete.  Happy to share the .blv with John if he feels like a challenge (and a few pint of Guinness).

- As you point out Huw, changing hanicaps after every race is easy (edit result), though with about 100 boats sailing under progressive (Echo) handicap, the mass changes envisioned here would keep us busy for an extra hour each evening, so a batch load would be very useful.  This certainly is not available with the standard program.  When we last ran the event, we only updated about 5 progressive handicaps per day, so updating every progressive handicap is an interesting concept & challenge.

Ian.

----- Original Message -----

From: Huw Pearce

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:22 AM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

  Thanks for the feedback. If Jon is up for the challenge then I would expect he would be able to to provide a utility to export data from Sailwave required for ECHO rating recalculation spreadsheet in an agreed format and then write the updated ratings back in to Sailwave from an agreed format file produced from the ECHO rating spreadsheet.

  Yes sounds like a job for Alias functionality, which is something I have never used  or needed to use.

  Kind regards,

Huw

On 23/06/2011 10:14, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Ian is I believe chief scorer the regatta is 7th to 10th July.

    Scoring is IRC and Echo so a double scoring system with alias perhaps.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:11 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

    I have spoken to Jon Eskdale, who is a bit of a magician on extracting information and writing information back into Sailwave .BLW files, and he thinks what is required is possible.  I don't how he is placed at the moment and the timescale a solution is required in - seems like instant. Jon, I expect will reply to the SUG soon; he is reading the attachments.

    PS - I would be interested to hear your views on the Digital pens if you have the chance to look at them. I have had a document from Ian Bowring over there describing its use.

Kind regards,
Huw

    On 23/06/2011 09:40, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Yes they do use the pens and intend to look at them.

      Echo is a performance based handicap system, for this event all boats start of Echo Standard a sort of IRC for a type of boat.

      After the first race a performance coefficient is calculated and used to update all the ratings. The new ratings are used for the next race and the same is repeated.

      In the year system some races are weighted but championships have races ranked as one.

      I believe a different weighting is given to older races a sort of progressive weighting. i am receiving tutorials on this at the moment.

      Attached are a few files and i will send an e mail I received.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:32 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

      Quick aside - Is that the regatta were they are using digital pens to record finish positions?

      Anyway back to your question. It may be possible to bulk upload but probably not in the short term. There is a Sailwave user who works with me on a regular basis and they can do magic things with making changes to a Sailwave .BLW file. I will speak to him on Skype in a moment and see what he says. To assist that conversation could I have more information about what is required or be put in touch with the chief scorer.

      Kind regards,

Huw

      On 23/06/2011 09:17, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

        Is there any way of importing a rating change for the whole fleet instead of doing it manually.

        In Ireland they use echo and with this they have to use a different rating on a performance handicap basis for each race.

The calculation would be done externally at the moment.

A global import may solve the problem.

        I am chair of the Protest Committee for the Dun Loaghaire regatta (up to 500 boats). They use sailwave, but have been asked to use echo progressive which appears to only be set up on sail100.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 8:54 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Yes

        For the competitor and race in question, right click in result cell and select Edit result then click on the Rating tab and you will see an option box 'Race rating'. By entering a value in the 'Race rating' box you can have a specific rating used for that race and by using the check box underneath it can then be used for subsequent races until one does the same thing in a future race for the competitor in question.

Kind regards,
Huw

        On 23/06/2011 08:39, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

          Is it possible to change a boats rating during a regatta, and score some races with one rating and some with one (ore more) later ratings?

Mike Butterfield

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Huw2 · 23 June 2011 12:05

Ian,

I was fortunate enough to be involved as a volunteer as the 2006

ISAF Youth Worlds in Weymouth, originally down to help man a safety
boat but when I arrived I was informed I had been ‘upgraded’ to
assistant on a pin end start/finish boat on the windsurfing course.
From there I have progressed to the scoring role in subsequent years
for RYA events. I had a fantastic time at the ISAF Youth Worlds,
hope you have the same.

Anyway, back to tour upcoming event; having looked at the NoR &

SI’s scoring is standard Appendix A unless I should be looking at
any ISA local scoring rules of which I am not aware. So fairly
simple from that point of view.

MikeB have the jury produced any policy document on redress and

scenarios, there has been one for the last few major events I have
been involved with, and implications for scoring.

It may be better for Jon to extract the data required for doing the

ECHO progressive rating calculation, that way you won’t have to
remember to switch to the correct view in Sailwave to get the data
required

Must not forget when uploading ratings that they have to go in the

correct place as you are using alisases!

Kind regards,

Huw

···

On 23/06/2011 12:42, Ian Bowring wrote:

Jon,

            Outstanding, thanks.  For
the progressive handicaps, I would envisage working as
follows:

            1. Score race as normal in

sailwave

            2. Use "Export Series
Summary to Windows Clipboard" function to export
appropriate race details

Import into Excel

            4. Run appropriate
handicapping revision algorithm in Excel to create
create new handicaps

            5. Export new handicaps
from Excel and import into Sailwave using Jon’s magic
program!

            The updates in question
will not update the base boat rating/handicap (on
competitor data file), but rather the race specific
data, normally accessed by right click on the result.
select “edit result”, select “rating” tab, enter new
value for “rating this race”, check box “use until the
next race rating is specified”.

            Without a magic program,
the process is the same, but the update in step 5 is
done manually.

            btw, regatta starts on July

7th.

Thanks again.

Ian.

            ----- Original Message

From: Jon Eskdale

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June
23, 2011 11:30 AM

Subject: Re:
[sailwave] Rating changes

Hi Ian,

Yes I always like a challenge!

                  So what format will the Handicaps be in?  csv or

xls or something else?

                  What is the timescale? I'm doing results for a
Windsurfing Cup event at the Mumbles (The home of
Sailwave ) this weekend but should have some time
Next week to look at it.
Regards

Jon

                On 23 June 2011 11:01, Ian > > Bowring <bowringi@eircom.net> > >                     wrote:

                              Hi Mike,

Huw,

                              Was
travelling over the last couple of
days, and missed this thread.

                              - We are
indeed intending to use the laser pens
again (we used them first for the same
regatta two years ago). I just need
final confirmation from our friends in
Australia that the server side is
ready, and need to technically check a
couple of new phones. Key objective
is to have all results published
before the first boats come ashore
(and key inhibitor is the reluctance
of recorders to hit the send button
before they have double and triple
checked!)

                              - For the
results, we make extensive use of
aliases in Sailwave. Classes race
with up to three handicaps
simultaneously (e.g. IRC, Echo &
Scratch for Beneteau 31.7’s), so
aliases mean just inputing the results
once, and generating three sets of
results (means prizes for everyone!
)

                              -
Including Aliases, we now have 32
classes racing over 7 courses with 528
entries (about 400 unique boats).
This will likely rise a bit before we
start.

                              - I
currently have a single ‘master’
sailwave file, but will split it into
4 separate files for faster
scoring once registrations are
complete. Happy to share the .blv
with John if he feels like a challenge
(and a few pint of Guinness).

                              - As you
point out Huw, changing hanicaps after
every race is easy (edit result),
though with about 100 boats sailing
under progressive (Echo) handicap, the
mass changes envisioned here would
keep us busy for an extra hour each
evening, so a batch load would be very
useful. This certainly is not
available with the standard program.
When we last ran the event, we only
updated about 5 progressive handicaps
per day, so updating every progressive
handicap is an interesting concept
& challenge.

Ian.

                              -----

Original Message -----

From: Huw Pearce

To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent:
Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:22 AM

Subject:
Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,
                                Thanks for the feedback. If Jon is
up for the challenge then I would
expect he would be able to to
provide a utility to export data
from Sailwave required for ECHO
rating recalculation spreadsheet in
an agreed format and then write the
updated ratings back in to Sailwave
from an agreed format file produced
from the ECHO rating spreadsheet.
                                Yes sounds like a job for Alias
functionality, which is something I
have never used or needed to use.
                                Kind regards,
                                Huw

                                On 23/06/2011 10:14, Patricia > > > > Butterfield wrote:

                                        Ian is I believe chief

scorer the regatta is 7th to
10th July.

                                        Scoring is IRC and Echo

so a double scoring system
with alias perhaps.

Mike

From: Huw
Pearce

Sent:
Thursday, June 23,
2011 10:11 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re:
[sailwave] Rating
changes

Mike,
                                            I have spoken to Jon
Eskdale, who is a bit of
a magician on extracting
information and writing
information back into
Sailwave .BLW files, and
he thinks what is
required is possible. I
don’t how he is placed
at the moment and the
timescale a solution is
required in - seems like
instant. Jon, I expect
will reply to the SUG
soon; he is reading the
attachments.
                                            PS - I would be
interested to hear your
views on the Digital
pens if you have the
chance to look at them.
I have had a document
from Ian Bowring over
there describing its
use.
                                            Kind regards,
                                            Huw

                                            On 23/06/2011 09:40, > > > > > Patricia Butterfield > > > > > wrote:

                                                    Yes they do

use the pens and
intend to look
at them.

                                                    Echo is a
performance
based handicap
system, for this
event all boats
start of Echo
Standard a sort
of IRC for a
type of boat.

                                                    After the
first race a
performance
coefficient is
calculated and
used to update
all the ratings.
The new ratings
are used for the
next race and
the same is
repeated.

                                                    In the year

system some
races are
weighted but
championships
have races
ranked as one.

                                                    I believe a
different
weighting is
given to older
races a sort of
progressive
weighting. i am
receiving
tutorials on
this at the
moment.

                                                    Attached are

a few files and
i will send an e
mail I received.

Mike

From:
Huw
Pearce

Sent:
Thursday, June
23, 2011 9:32
AM

To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject:
Re: [sailwave]
Rating changes

Mike,
                                                      Quick aside -
Is that the
regatta were
they are using
digital pens
to record
finish
positions?
                                                      Anyway back to
your question.
It may be
possible to
bulk upload
but probably
not in the
short term.
There is a
Sailwave user
who works with
me on a
regular basis
and they can
do magic
things with
making changes
to a Sailwave
.BLW file. I
will speak to
him on Skype
in a moment
and see what
he says. To
assist that
conversation
could I have
more
information
about what is
required or be
put in touch
with the chief
scorer.
                                                      Kind regards,
                                                      Huw

                                                      On 23/06/2011 > > > > > > 09:17, > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > Butterfield > > > > > > wrote:

                                                      Is there

any way of
importing a
rating change
for the whole
fleet instead
of doing it
manually.

                                                      In
Ireland they
use echo and
with this they
have to use a
different
rating on a
performance
handicap basis
for each race.

The

calculation
would be done
externally at
the moment.

                                                      A global

import may
solve the
problem.

                                                      I am
chair of the
Protest
Committee for
the Dun
Loaghaire
regatta (up to
500 boats).
They use
sailwave, but
have been
asked to use
echo
progressive
which appears
to only be set
up on sail100.

Mike

From:
Huw
Pearce

Sent:
Thursday, June
23, 2011 8:54
AM

To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject:
Re: [sailwave]
Rating changes

Mike,
                                                      Yes ;-)

                                                      For the
competitor and
race in
question,
right click in
result cell
and select
Edit result
then click on
the Rating tab
and you will
see an option
box ‘Race
rating’. By
entering a
value in the
‘Race rating’
box you can
have a
specific
rating used
for that race
and by using
the check box
underneath it
can then be
used for
subsequent
races until
one does the
same thing in
a future race
for the
competitor in
question.
                                                      Kind regards,
                                                      Huw

                                                      On 23/06/2011 > > > > > > > 08:39, > > > > > > > Patricia > > > > > > > Butterfield > > > > > > > wrote:

                                                      Is it
possible to
change a boats
rating during
a regatta, and
score some
races with one
rating and
some with one
(ore more)
later ratings?

                                                      Mike

Butterfield

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MikeB · 23 June 2011 12:14

No policy document.

I believe we have a small team so without multiple panels there should be consistency.

Mike

···

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 1:05 PM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Ian,

I was fortunate enough to be involved as a volunteer as the 2006 ISAF Youth Worlds in Weymouth, originally down to help man a safety boat but when I arrived I was informed I had been ‘upgraded’ to assistant on a pin end start/finish boat on the windsurfing course. From there I have progressed to the scoring role in subsequent years for RYA events. I had a fantastic time at the ISAF Youth Worlds, hope you have the same.

Anyway, back to tour upcoming event; having looked at the NoR & SI’s scoring is standard Appendix A unless I should be looking at any ISA local scoring rules of which I am not aware. So fairly simple from that point of view.

MikeB have the jury produced any policy document on redress and scenarios, there has been one for the last few major events I have been involved with, and implications for scoring.

It may be better for Jon to extract the data required for doing the ECHO progressive rating calculation, that way you won’t have to remember to switch to the correct view in Sailwave to get the data required

Must not forget when uploading ratings that they have to go in the correct place as you are using alisases!

Kind regards,
Huw

On 23/06/2011 12:42, Ian Bowring wrote:

Jon,

Outstanding, thanks. For the progressive handicaps, I would envisage working as follows:

Score race as normal in sailwave

Use “Export Series Summary to Windows Clipboard” function to export appropriate race details

Import into Excel

Run appropriate handicapping revision algorithm in Excel to create create new handicaps

Export new handicaps from Excel and import into Sailwave using Jon’s magic program!

The updates in question will not update the base boat rating/handicap (on competitor data file), but rather the race specific data, normally accessed by right click on the result. select “edit result”, select “rating” tab, enter new value for “rating this race”, check box “use until the next race rating is specified”.

Without a magic program, the process is the same, but the update in step 5 is done manually.

btw, regatta starts on July 7th.

Thanks again.

Ian.

----- Original Message -----

From: Jon Eskdale

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:30 AM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Hi Ian,

Yes I always like a challenge!

  So what format will the Handicaps be in?  csv or xls or something else?

  What is the timescale? I'm doing results for a Windsurfing Cup event at the Mumbles (The home of Sailwave ) this weekend but should have some time Next week to look at it.

Regards

Jon

On 23 June 2011 11:01, Ian Bowring bowringi@eircom.net wrote:

Hi Mike, Huw,

  Was travelling over the last couple of days, and missed this thread.

  - We are indeed intending to use the laser pens again (we used them first for the same regatta two years ago).  I just need final confirmation from our friends in Australia that the server side is ready, and need to technically check a couple of new phones.   Key objective is to have all results published before the first boats come ashore (and key inhibitor is the reluctance of recorders to hit the send button before they have double and triple checked!)

  - For the results, we make extensive use of aliases in Sailwave.  Classes race with up to three handicaps simultaneously (e.g. IRC, Echo & Scratch for Beneteau 31.7's), so aliases mean just inputing the results once, and generating three sets of results (means prizes for everyone! :-) )

  - Including Aliases, we now have 32 classes racing over 7 courses with 528 entries (about 400 unique boats).  This will likely rise a bit before we start.

  - I currently have a single 'master' sailwave file, but will split it into 4 separate files for faster scoring once registrations are complete.  Happy to share the .blv with John if he feels like a challenge (and a few pint of Guinness).

  - As you point out Huw, changing hanicaps after every race is easy (edit result), though with about 100 boats sailing under progressive (Echo) handicap, the mass changes envisioned here would keep us busy for an extra hour each evening, so a batch load would be very useful.  This certainly is not available with the standard program.  When we last ran the event, we only updated about 5 progressive handicaps per day, so updating every progressive handicap is an interesting concept & challenge.

Ian.

----- Original Message -----

From: Huw Pearce

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:22 AM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

    Thanks for the feedback. If Jon is up for the challenge then I would expect he would be able to to provide a utility to export data from Sailwave required for ECHO rating recalculation spreadsheet in an agreed format and then write the updated ratings back in to Sailwave from an agreed format file produced from the ECHO rating spreadsheet.

    Yes sounds like a job for Alias functionality, which is something I have never used  or needed to use.

    Kind regards,

Huw

On 23/06/2011 10:14, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

      Ian is I believe chief scorer the regatta is 7th to 10th July.

      Scoring is IRC and Echo so a double scoring system with alias perhaps.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:11 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

      I have spoken to Jon Eskdale, who is a bit of a magician on extracting information and writing information back into Sailwave .BLW files, and he thinks what is required is possible.  I don't how he is placed at the moment and the timescale a solution is required in - seems like instant. Jon, I expect will reply to the SUG soon; he is reading the attachments.

      PS - I would be interested to hear your views on the Digital pens if you have the chance to look at them. I have had a document from Ian Bowring over there describing its use.

Kind regards,
Huw

      On 23/06/2011 09:40, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

Yes they do use the pens and intend to look at them.

        Echo is a performance based handicap system, for this event all boats start of Echo Standard a sort of IRC for a type of boat.

        After the first race a performance coefficient is calculated and used to update all the ratings. The new ratings are used for the next race and the same is repeated.

        In the year system some races are weighted but championships have races ranked as one.

        I believe a different weighting is given to older races a sort of progressive weighting. i am receiving tutorials on this at the moment.

        Attached are a few files and i will send an e mail I received.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:32 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

        Quick aside - Is that the regatta were they are using digital pens to record finish positions?

        Anyway back to your question. It may be possible to bulk upload but probably not in the short term. There is a Sailwave user who works with me on a regular basis and they can do magic things with making changes to a Sailwave .BLW file. I will speak to him on Skype in a moment and see what he says. To assist that conversation could I have more information about what is required or be put in touch with the chief scorer.

Kind regards,
Huw

        On 23/06/2011 09:17, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

          Is there any way of importing a rating change for the whole fleet instead of doing it manually.

          In Ireland they use echo and with this they have to use a different rating on a performance handicap basis for each race.

The calculation would be done externally at the moment.

A global import may solve the problem.

          I am chair of the Protest Committee for the Dun Loaghaire regatta (up to 500 boats). They use sailwave, but have been asked to use echo progressive which appears to only be set up on sail100.

Mike

From: Huw Pearce

Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 8:54 AM

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Rating changes

Mike,

Yes

          For the competitor and race in question, right click in result cell and select Edit result then click on the Rating tab and you will see an option box 'Race rating'. By entering a value in the 'Race rating' box you can have a specific rating used for that race and by using the check box underneath it can then be used for subsequent races until one does the same thing in a future race for the competitor in question.

Kind regards,
Huw

          On 23/06/2011 08:39, Patricia Butterfield wrote:

            Is it possible to change a boats rating during a regatta, and score some races with one rating and some with one (ore more) later ratings?

Mike Butterfield

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