As pointed out by Bemis, one of the problems with variable spread systems
WRT starters like Rinderle B, is that it can be exploited by a competitor.
i.e somebody can guarantee winning a series by not sailing when s/he may not
win the series by sailing! I don't think this is an attractive property and
interestingly is the reason why the original 8.2 tie breaker was removed in
the 2000-2004 RRS.
Can't happen constant spread systems WRT starters.
CJ
···
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Colin
This is not a problem with Rinderle but can be exploited in a system like
Cox-Sprague where average performance is being measured, which means that a
situation can indeed arise where sailing in a race can only worsen ones
score, as you have indicated and this is a further reason by I don't like
C-S.
This is not the case however with Rinderle since ones score accumulates
upwards and is only limited by the maximum number of races that are allowed
to count. This means that there is never a disincentive against sailing.
Also the likelihood of a tie is somewhat reduced - there are a number of
ways to resolve any tie in the event that one does occur.
Geoff
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 01 September 2004 20:05
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] rinderle b problem
As pointed out by Bemis, one of the problems with variable spread systems
WRT starters like Rinderle B, is that it can be exploited by a competitor.
i.e somebody can guarantee winning a series by not sailing when s/he may not
win the series by sailing! I don't think this is an attractive property and
interestingly is the reason why the original 8.2 tie breaker was removed in
the 2000-2004 RRS.
Can't happen constant spread systems WRT starters.
CJ
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Hi Geoff,
Yes, I think I see. In RinderleB the difference in points for Nth place
between two successive races is never more than the worst score (DNF=5) so
it can't be manipulated; is that right.
CJ
Colin
This is not a problem with Rinderle... but can be exploited in a system
like
Cox-Sprague where average performance is being measured, which
means that a
situation can indeed arise where sailing in a race can only worsen ones
score, as you have indicated and this is a further reason by I don't like
C-S.
This is not the case however with Rinderle since ones score accumulates
upwards and is only limited by the maximum number of races that
are allowed
to count. This means that there is never a disincentive against sailing.
Also the likelihood of a tie is somewhat reduced - there are a number of
ways to resolve any tie in the event that one does occur.
Geoff
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 01 September 2004 20:05
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] rinderle b problem
As pointed out by Bemis, one of the problems with variable spread systems
WRT starters like Rinderle B, is that it can be exploited by a competitor.
i.e somebody can guarantee winning a series by not sailing when
s/he may not
win the series by sailing! I don't think this is an attractive
property and
interestingly is the reason why the original 8.2 tie breaker was
removed in
the 2000-2004 RRS.
Can't happen constant spread systems WRT starters.
CJ
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Hi Colin
Basically that is correct. (NB - but not necessarily 'successive' races but
any races in the series and applicable whether or not ones worst score is
DNF = 5 or hopefully somewhat better).
Each time one sails you can only improve your score. Further when the
maximum number of races that you are allowed to count have been sailed, you
always discard the worst score each time another race is sailed in excess of
that maximum number.
Of course the equivalent also happens in low point scoring where one
discards the highest (worst score) but in that case the scores make no sense
until one has sailed sufficient races to 'qualify'. For the Rinderle type
of scoring ones points start to accumulate from race 1 and the overall
positions become meaningful immediately for everyone who sails in the
series - much more sensible, eh?
Geoff
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 03 September 2004 09:18
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] rinderle b problem
Hi Geoff,
Yes, I think I see. In RinderleB the difference in points for Nth place
between two successive races is never more than the worst score (DNF=5) so
it can't be manipulated; is that right.
CJ
Colin
This is not a problem with Rinderle... but can be exploited in a system
like
Cox-Sprague where average performance is being measured, which
means that a
situation can indeed arise where sailing in a race can only worsen ones
score, as you have indicated and this is a further reason by I don't like
C-S.
This is not the case however with Rinderle since ones score accumulates
upwards and is only limited by the maximum number of races that
are allowed
to count. This means that there is never a disincentive against sailing.
Also the likelihood of a tie is somewhat reduced - there are a number of
ways to resolve any tie in the event that one does occur.
Geoff
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 01 September 2004 20:05
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] rinderle b problem
As pointed out by Bemis, one of the problems with variable spread systems
WRT starters like Rinderle B, is that it can be exploited by a competitor.
i.e somebody can guarantee winning a series by not sailing when
s/he may not
win the series by sailing! I don't think this is an attractive
property and
interestingly is the reason why the original 8.2 tie breaker was
removed in
the 2000-2004 RRS.
Can't happen constant spread systems WRT starters.
CJ
---
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Hi
Several non formal races is based on pursuit racing. Specially in
sponsor sailing. Unfortunately Im not able to set this up in my Sailwave
and therefore made this excel sheet (www.matchseiling.no/pursuit.xls)
for calculation of starttimes.
Will the calculation method ever be a part of Sailwave - or does we have
so many Pursuit race system that a mission like that will be way to
much?
Anyhow - here is some details about my method:
Its based on a standard polar diagram for a "typical boat" (BB10)
http://www.bb10m.dk/images/BB10-Polaren.jpg. Based on this Ive set three
variables on the boats speed potential depending on the wind angle. The
OA needs to enter the course variables and the windfactor
(6,8,10,12,14,16 or 20 knots). The formula is based on LYS/IRC but if
youre going to use Portsmuth Yardstick - the formula is easy to adapt.
If any questions - drop me a line.
Regards
Håvard
