I am curious about how Sailwave would handle this situation:
Assume a scoring system where the scores for all places are calculated to three decimal places (locally we use a high-point type system that does that). Now assume a tie between two boats. RRS A7 says to score 2 tied boats by adding the two scores together and dividing by 2; and, to score 3 tied boats by adding the three scores together and dividing by 3; etc. That will inevitably on occasion result in scores that have more than three decimal places.
Under Setup|Scoring System|Race Scoring there is a place to specify scoring precision. Since standard race scores are to three decimal places I would make this a "3." But, with ties it could be more. I can imagine that a reasonable default for tied scores is one more significant place than standard race scores as that would handle all two-way ties and three-way ties are incredibly rare.
How does Sailwave then handle those tied scores? As long as the data is stored somewhere and used when ranking boats it probably doesn't matter that only three decimal places are displayed but you wouldn't want those additional fractions to be discarded in case they become relevant at the end of a series. [I probably should mention that the rounding rules aren't relevant here since there are no measurements with significant digits, just pure calculations.]
Thanks,
Art
Hi Art,
Sailwave is currently schizophrenic. It rounds corrected times to
once second (hardwired). It rounds points calculations from codes
(RDG etc) and point accumulation as per the field you mention.
What is needed as far as I can see if the ability to accept and
compute times as fractions of a second. It’s actually non trivial
given the implementation but clearly something I need to address.
[](http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sa=X&ei=LEnrTrGDGYal8QOz58SKCg&ved=0CCUQvwUoAQ&q=schizophrenic&spell=1)
···
Cheers,
Colin J
I am curious about how Sailwave would handle this situation:
Assume a scoring system where the scores for all places are calculated to three decimal places (locally we use a high-point type system that does that). Now assume a tie between two boats. RRS A7 says to score 2 tied boats by adding the two scores together and dividing by 2; and, to score 3 tied boats by adding the three scores together and dividing by 3; etc. That will inevitably on occasion result in scores that have more than three decimal places.
Under Setup|Scoring System|Race Scoring there is a place to specify scoring precision. Since standard race scores are to three decimal places I would make this a "3." But, with ties it could be more. I can imagine that a reasonable default for tied scores is one more significant place than standard race scores as that would handle all two-way ties and three-way ties are incredibly rare.
How does Sailwave then handle those tied scores? As long as the data is stored somewhere and used when ranking boats it probably doesn't matter that only three decimal places are displayed but you wouldn't want those additional fractions to be discarded in case they become relevant at the end of a series. [I probably should mention that the rounding rules aren't relevant here since there are no measurements with significant digits, just pure calculations.]
Thanks,
Art
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The topic got switched to Rounding Times NOT Scores!!
Personally, I think adding tenths or hundredths to corrected times would be a bad idea and is not needed. In any event, I would put it at a very LOW priority and make sure it is optional.
Probably 99.9% of finish times are taken in seconds (meaning to some whole second, not a tenth or hundredth of a second). With that, you should be calculating corrected times to the nearest second. You could build in an option but I don't think it should hardly ever be used - just on those occasions when finish times are entered to some other accuracy (which admittedly might happen more in the future if automatic computerized recording of finishes ever becomes standard).
Using some arbitrary additional decimal places on corrected times to break race ties is essentially the same as breaking ties on a random basis. Nothing wrong with that, I just think it would be better for competitors to know it - hence my suggestion to do like RRS D4.2(e) and use a game of chance. My experience is that competitors generally don't think ties are a bad thing and don't mind them so why not let them stand.
Art
···
On 12/16/2011 5:39 AM, Colin Jenkins wrote:
Hi Art,
Sailwave is currently schizophrenic. It rounds corrected times to once second
(hardwired). It rounds points calculations from codes (RDG etc) and point
accumulation as per the field you mention.
What is needed as far as I can see if the ability to accept and compute times as
fractions of a second. It's actually non trivial given the implementation but
clearly something I need to address.
*//*
<http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sa=X&ei=LEnrTrGDGYal8QOz58SKCg&ved=0CCUQvwUoAQ&q=schizophrenic&spell=1>
Cheers,
Colin J
On 14/12/2011 00:40, Art Engel wrote:
I am curious about how Sailwave would handle this situation:
Assume a scoring system where the scores for all places are calculated
to three decimal places (locally we use a high-point type system that
does that). Now assume a tie between two boats. RRS A7 says to score 2
tied boats by adding the two scores together and dividing by 2; and, to
score 3 tied boats by adding the three scores together and dividing by
3; etc. That will inevitably on occasion result in scores that have more
than three decimal places.
Under Setup|Scoring System|Race Scoring there is a place to specify
scoring precision. Since standard race scores are to three decimal
places I would make this a "3." But, with ties it could be more. I can
imagine that a reasonable default for tied scores is one more
significant place than standard race scores as that would handle all
two-way ties and three-way ties are incredibly rare.
How does Sailwave then handle those tied scores? As long as the data is
stored somewhere and used when ranking boats it probably doesn't matter
that only three decimal places are displayed but you wouldn't want those
additional fractions to be discarded in case they become relevant at the
end of a series. [I probably should mention that the rounding rules
aren't relevant here since there are no measurements with significant
digits, just pure calculations.]
Thanks,
Art
------------------------------------
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I don't think you answered my specific question but I am guessing you think you did.
RRS A7 says to score a race tie between two boats by adding the scores together and dividing by two. With Low Point Scoring, race scores are whole numbers. If the total of both scores is odd then the resulting tied scores will need an additional decimal place to hold 0.5 point. So, for race ties you could handle 99.999% of ties (all ties between two boats) by specifying that "tie accuracy" will automatically be one more than normal race scores accuracy. I believe this analysis works for whatever accuracy you specify for race scores - 99.999% of tied scores can be handled if "tie accuracy" is automatically one more place than normal race score point accuracy. [Race ties of 3 or more boats would NOT be handled - but presumably they are truly rare and an additional one more place decimal place would be close enough for practical purposes for those ties as well, even if it isn't what RRS A7 specifies.]
My question essentially was "Does Sailwave handle tied scores automatically or do I need to do something special?" Presumably, the "something special" for my high point system (race scores to three decimal places) would be to increase the accuracy of point scores from 3 to 4 decimal places in case there might be ties. But, presumably that would increase ALL race scores to 4 decimal places when only the tied scores are supposed to be increased to 4 decimal places and all other race scores should still be rounded to 3 decimal places.
That was my question but I still don't know the answer. However, I think you hinted that Sailwave does not automatically do the race scores for tied boats per RRS A7 unless the Low Point System is used (in which case one could set the accuracy at 1 decimal place and all scores, except half of tied scores, would have an excess ".0" tacked on the end).
Art
···
On 12/16/2011 5:39 AM, Colin Jenkins wrote:
Hi Art,
Sailwave is currently schizophrenic. It rounds corrected times to once second
(hardwired). It rounds points calculations from codes (RDG etc) and point
accumulation as per the field you mention.
What is needed as far as I can see if the ability to accept and compute times as
fractions of a second. It's actually non trivial given the implementation but
clearly something I need to address.
*//*
<http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sa=X&ei=LEnrTrGDGYal8QOz58SKCg&ved=0CCUQvwUoAQ&q=schizophrenic&spell=1>
Cheers,
Colin J
On 14/12/2011 00:40, Art Engel wrote:
I am curious about how Sailwave would handle this situation:
Assume a scoring system where the scores for all places are calculated
to three decimal places (locally we use a high-point type system that
does that). Now assume a tie between two boats. RRS A7 says to score 2
tied boats by adding the two scores together and dividing by 2; and, to
score 3 tied boats by adding the three scores together and dividing by
3; etc. That will inevitably on occasion result in scores that have more
than three decimal places.
Under Setup|Scoring System|Race Scoring there is a place to specify
scoring precision. Since standard race scores are to three decimal
places I would make this a "3." But, with ties it could be more. I can
imagine that a reasonable default for tied scores is one more
significant place than standard race scores as that would handle all
two-way ties and three-way ties are incredibly rare.
How does Sailwave then handle those tied scores? As long as the data is
stored somewhere and used when ranking boats it probably doesn't matter
that only three decimal places are displayed but you wouldn't want those
additional fractions to be discarded in case they become relevant at the
end of a series. [I probably should mention that the rounding rules
aren't relevant here since there are no measurements with significant
digits, just pure calculations.]
Thanks,
Art
------------------------------------
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-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG -www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.1890 / Virus Database: 2108/4679 - Release Date: 12/13/11