May be a simple questions but I haven’t done it before.
We are running a series over a number of weekends, and a varied numbers of boats turn up each weekend. When we have a DNF, OCS etc we want to make it for the particular number of boats that weekend, not the total series. How do I do this?
Use the RRS App. A9 option for `Series longer than a Regatta'
Under Scoring System, Scoring Codes, click on the hand symbol lower right. Then select ISAF Appendix A long series.
regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield South Africa
On 2014/05/26 12:34, clare.morgan@xtra.co.nz [sailwave] wrote:
May be a simple questions but I haven't done it before.
We are running a series over a number of weekends, and a varied numbers of boats turn up each weekend. When we have a DNF, OCS etc we want to make it for the particular number of boats that weekend, not the total series. How do I do this?
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Hi Clare,
From the information you have given - I assume that you will have several races each weekend where the number of boats competing will be different (and hence under your criteria will have different DNC values) but you want all the races in the same Sailwave file. This means that the DNC code can not have a single value so the solution would be to set New codes where you can set them to a fixed value. Say you have 35 boats enter create a code such as DNC36 which has a fixed value of 36 or you might name the codes DNCW1 for weekend 1 and DNCW2 etc - you would also have to create matching codes for DNF and OCS etc but you could set these to get their value from the matching DNC code.
Note assuming that you are using low point scoring your standard DNC value would be awarded to all competitors in the Series that did not register/enter for the event.
Jon
Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype “eskdale”
On 26 May 2014 11:34, clare.morgan@xtra.co.nz [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
May be a simple questions but I haven’t done it before.
We are running a series over a number of weekends, and a varied numbers of boats turn up each weekend. When we have a DNF, OCS etc we want to make it for the particular number of boats that weekend, not the total series. How do I do this?
Hi Malcom,
That would only work if you want DNF to be that of the race - may be that is what she wants but from the original post I read it that she wants the number entered for that weekends series of races.
Jon
Jon Eskdale
07976 709777
Skype “eskdale”
On 26 May 2014 12:24, Malcolm Osborne malcolmo@telkomsa.net [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Use the RRS App. A9 option for`Series longer than a Regatta’
Under Scoring System, Scoring Codes, click on the hand symbollower right. Then select ISAF Appendix A long series.
regards, Malcolm Osborne Sedgefield South AfricaOn 2014/05/26 12:34, clare.morgan@xtra.co.nz [sailwave] wrote:
May be a simple questions but I haven’t done it before.
We are running a series over a number of weekends, and avaried numbers of boats turn up each weekend. When we have
a DNF, OCS etc we want to make it for the particular
number of boats that weekend, not the total series. How do
I do this?
This email is free from viruses and
malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
Are you wanting to use the scoring as described in Appendix A, rule A9?
A9 RACE SCORES IN A SERIES LONGER THAN A REGATTA
For a series that is held over a period of time longer than a regatta, a
boat that came to the starting area but did not start, did not finish,
retired or was disqualified shall be scored points for the finishing
place one more than the number of boats that came to the starting
area. A boat that did not come to the starting area shall be scored
points for the finishing place one more than the number of boats
entered in the series.
Mark Townsend
Phone: 562-433-4366
Cell: 562-533-5909
Email: s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 3:34 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Running a series over a number of weekends with varied numbers of boats each weekend
May be a simple questions but I haven’t done it before.
We are running a series over a number of weekends, and a varied numbers of boats turn up each weekend. When we have a DNF, OCS etc we want to make it for the particular number of boats that weekend, not the total series. How do I do this?
Thanks all sorted now, rather simple when you know what you are doing.
From: “Malcolm Osborne malcolmo@telkomsa.net [sailwave]” sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 26 May 2014 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Running a series over a number of weekends with varied numbers of boats each weekend
Use the RRS App. A9 option for
`Series longer than a Regatta’
Under Scoring System, Scoring Codes, click on the hand symbol
lower right. Then select ISAF Appendix A long series.
regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield South Africa
On 2014/05/26 12:34, clare.morgan@xtra.co.nz [sailwave] wrote:
May be a simple questions but I haven’t done it before.
We are running a series over a number of weekends, and avaried numbers of boats turn up each weekend. When we have
a DNF, OCS etc we want to make it for the particular
number of boats that weekend, not the total series. How do
I do this?
This email is free from viruses and
malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
[
](http://www.avast.com/)
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
I'm posting to alert others with an interest in race results that the NHC 2014 methodology in my opinion has a fundamental flaw which means it shouldn't be used, at least for small fleets. I've reached this conclusion reluctantly after studying my club's race results carefully. In summary, for boats that miss a race, the effect of the newly introduced realignment after every race is far more dominant than the true progression from the race results. A progressive handicap system needs to respond fairly to the actual results, and not have arbitrary effects like this.
The boats not sailing change the composition of the boats being used in the realignment, which causes a realignment to take place that is dominated by just the shift in composition of the boats in the averaging process. When a boat not in this realignment rejoins the next race, then there has been a relative distortion in handicaps. This effect is unfortunately much more significant than the adjustments to the handicaps that have occurred from the actual race results.
This means changes to the relativities between the handicaps for boats as they miss and re-enter races are dominated by undesirable arbitrary effects.
I've created a small spreadsheet that shows these effects for my club and I would be happy to share this together with a more detailed commentary with anyone wanting to look into the issue in more depth. Email me if you'd like to see this and I'll send it to you.
For the time being I would recommend that no-one should use NHC 2014 for small fleets. With caution and understanding, it might be ok for large fleets where there are relatively few boats missing some but not all races, where the problem might not be as severe, but otherwise I would recommend using fixed handicaps from the end of last year under NHC 2013, which will be ok as long as the problems caused by extreme performers are adjusted out - NHC 2014 does deal with this issue well, but this good point is of secondary importance to the main problem.
Best wishes,
Alan
Clare,
I don’t know what your SI say, but ours say that a DNF, OCS, etc is one more than the number of finishers. There is that option under scoring system hit the scoring codes tab, highlight the code you are interested in and hit the edit button. You get many options like number of finishers + N. You click on the option and insert the number you want for N at the top of the editing form. Be carful though because many of the codes score like DNF. So you may have to change other codes if your SI don’t use the same number N , or don’t use finishers as the basis for the penalty.
Hope that is what you were looking for.
Norm
On May 26, 2014, at 3:34 AM, “clare.morgan@xtra.co.nz [sailwave]” sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
May be a simple questions but I haven’t done it before.
We are running a series over a number of weekends, and a varied numbers of boats turn up each weekend. When we have a DNF, OCS etc we want to make it for the particular number of boats that weekend, not the total series. How do I do this?
Jon,
I’m trying to work through a number of scoring issues, with our results.
I have 2 questions:
All my other scoring issues are OK…
Regards
Pete
Holiday booked:
30th June - 4th July
Pete Scrutton
Unix Systems Engineer - location independent/Milton Keynes/Luton
Unix Technical LoS Lead - Network Rail
Unix Technical LoS Lead - Admin Re
Oracle Linux 6 Certified Implementation Specialist
UK Midrange Service Centre
CSC
GOS | Office +44 (0)1480 210590 | Mobile: +44(0)780 238 0517 | Email: pscrutto@csc.com | www.csc.com
CSC • This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose • CSC Computer Sciences Limited • Registered Office: Royal Pavilion, Wellesley Road, Aldershot, Hampshire, GU11 1PZ, UK • Registered in England No: 0963578
“Malcolm Osborne malcolmo@telkomsa.net [sailwave]” —26/05/2014 12:23:59—Use the RRS App. A9 option for `Series longer than a Regatta’ Under Scoring System, Scoring Codes,
From: “Malcolm Osborne malcolmo@telkomsa.net [sailwave]” sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com,
Date: 26/05/2014 12:23
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Running a series over a number of weekends with varied numbers of boats each weekend
Sent by: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Use the RRS App. A9 option for `Series longer than a Regatta’
Under Scoring System, Scoring Codes, click on the hand symbol lower right. Then select ISAF Appendix A long series.
`regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield South Africa`
`
`
On 2014/05/26 12:34, clare.morgan@xtra.co.nz [sailwave] wrote:
May be a simple questions but I haven’t done it before.
We are running a series over a number of weekends, and a varied numbers of boats turn up each weekend. When we have a DNF, OCS etc we want to make it for the particular number of boats that weekend, not the total series. How do I do this?
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
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Pete,
Not answering for Jon, but I can inform that RAF was the definition in RRS prior to the current 2013 - 201 rules. In the current version, the equivalent is RET. Also - previous versions of SW accepted RAF, but this has also been updated to RET in order to be concurrent with ISAF.
Jon had better answer for the OOD ( actually coded by Colin).
regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield South Africa
On 2014/05/27 15:31, Pete J Scrutton pscrutto@csc.com [sailwave] wrote:
Jon,
I'm trying to work through a number of scoring issues, with our results.
I have 2 questions:
1) is RAF (Retired After Finishing) a valid scoring code in Sailwave
2) How have you coded OOD - and where did you get that definition from?All my other scoring issues are OK....
Regards
Pete
Holiday booked:
30th June - 4th JulyPete Scrutton
Unix Systems Engineer - location independent/Milton Keynes/Luton
Unix Technical LoS Lead - Network Rail
Unix Technical LoS Lead - Admin Re
Oracle Linux 6 Certified Implementation Specialist
UK Midrange Service Centre
CSCGOS | Office +44 (0)1480 210590 | Mobile: +44(0)780 238 0517 | Email: pscrutto@csc.com | www.csc.com
CSC • This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose • CSC Computer Sciences Limited • Registered Office: Royal Pavilion, Wellesley Road, Aldershot, Hampshire, GU11 1PZ, UK • Registered in England No: 0963578
Inactive hide details for "Malcolm Osborne malcolmo@telkomsa.net [sailwave]" ---26/05/2014 12:23:59---Use the RRS App. A9 opt"Malcolm Osborne malcolmo@telkomsa.net [sailwave]" ---26/05/2014 12:23:59---Use the RRS App. A9 option for `Series longer than a Regatta' Under Scoring System, Scoring Codes,
From: "Malcolm Osborne malcolmo@telkomsa.net [sailwave]" <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com,
Date: 26/05/2014 12:23
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Running a series over a number of weekends with varied numbers of boats each weekend
Sent by: sailwave@yahoogroups.com------------------------------------------------------------------------
Use the RRS App. A9 option for `Series longer than a Regatta'
Under Scoring System, Scoring Codes, click on the hand symbol lower right. Then select ISAF Appendix A long series.
regards,
Malcolm Osborne
Sedgefield South AfricaOn 2014/05/26 12:34, _clare.morgan@xtra.co.nz_ > <mailto:clare.morgan@xtra.co.nz> [sailwave] wrote:
May be a simple questions but I haven't done it before.
We are running a series over a number of weekends, and a varied
numbers of boats turn up each weekend. When we have a DNF, OCS etc
we want to make it for the particular number of boats that
weekend, not the total series. How do I do this?------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email is free from viruses and malware because _avast!
Antivirus_ <http://www.avast.com/> protection is active.------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email is free from viruses and malware because _avast!
Antivirus_ <http://www.avast.com/> protection is active.------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Hi Pete,
The scoring code OOD was included, even though it is not an RRS
Appendix A listed code, so clubs had a code to assign to volunteers
who ran the race team instead of racing. OOD code can use any one of
the methods given on the methods tab. Some clubs give a fixed points
value and others an average of all races not DNC for the competitor
concerned.
RAF was a valid RRS Appendix A code in the previous edition but is
not in the current version. RET is the code now for retired during a
race or after a race.
Kind regards,
Huw
On 27/05/2014 14:31, Pete J Scrutton
[sailwave] wrote:
Jon,
I'm trying to workthrough a number of scoring issues, with our results.
I have 2 questions: 1) is RAF (Retired AfterFinishing) a valid scoring code in Sailwave
2) How have you coded OOD
and where did you get that definition from?
All my other scoringissues are OK…
Regards Pete Holiday booked: 30th June - 4th July Pete Scrutton Unix Systems Engineer - location independent/MiltonKeynes/Luton
Unix Technical LoS Lead - Network Rail Unix Technical LoS Lead - Admin Re Oracle Linux 6 Certified Implementation Specialist UK Midrange Service Centre CSC GOS | Office +44 (0)1480 210590 | Mobile: +44(0)780 2380517 | Email: | CSC • This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the
intended recipient, please delete without copying and
kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery.
NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not
operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract
unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or
government initiative expressly permitting the use of
e-mail for such purpose • CSC Computer Sciences Limited
• Registered Office: Royal Pavilion, Wellesley Road,
Aldershot, Hampshire, GU11 1PZ, UK • Registered in
England No: 0963578"Malcolm Osborne [sailwave]" ---26/05/2014 12:23:59---Use the RRS App. A9option for `Series longer than a Regatta’ Under
Scoring System, Scoring Codes,From: "Malcolm Osborne[sailwave]"
To: , Date: 26/05/2014 12:23 Subject: Re: [sailwave]Running a series over a number of weekends with varied
numbers of boats each weekend
Sent by:
Use the RRS App. A9 optionfor `Series longer than a Regatta’
Under Scoring System, Scoring Codes, click on the handsymbol lower right. Then select ISAF Appendix A long
series.
`regards,Malcolm Osborne Sedgefield South Africa`
`
` On 2014/05/26 12:34, clare.morgan@xtra.co.nz [sailwave] wrote:
May be a simple questionsbut I haven’t done it before.
We are running a series over a number of weekends, anda varied numbers of boats turn up each weekend. When
we have a DNF, OCS etc we want to make it for the
particular number of boats that weekend, not the total
series. How do I do this?
Thisemail is free from viruses and malware because
avast!
Antivirus protection is
active.
Thisemail is free from viruses and malware because avast!
Antivirus protection is
active.
This email is free from viruses and
malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
malcolmo@telkomsa.netmalcolmo@telkomsa.netsailwave@yahoogroups.comsailwave@yahoogroups.comsailwave@yahoogroups.com
Pete also emailed me directly to which I replied directly but I’m posting this here for completeness should anyone have a similar question.
Hi Pete,
RAF is no longer a code as per RRS but as Sailwave has user defined codes you can use any codes you like. The replacement code for RAF is now RET. The codes which exist by default in the Sailwave series file will depend upon which version of Sailwave created the series file. All the recent versions will have created RET and older version would have created RAF.
You can edit the codes if the ones you want are not correct. e.g. if you have a series created by an older version of Sailwave which has the RAF in it you can edit this to RET.
If you go to Edit scoring system and then select the scoring codes you will see the definition of OOD and you can edit it if you wish.
Regards
Jon
Alan,
I would be please to see your workings as we are far from convinced tat NHC in its present form is an acceptable system.
Best wishes
Richard
Alan,
We at the BJRC have identified a similar problem, although haven’t analysed as thoroughly as you.
I’d like to hear your detailed explanation.
Regards
Peter Ward.
On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Alan Spence alan.spence@ntlworld.com [sailwave] sailwave@yahoogroups.com wrote:
I’m posting to alert others with an interest in race results that the NHC 2014 methodology in my opinion has a fundamental flaw which means it shouldn’t be used, at least for small fleets. I’ve reached this conclusion reluctantly after studying my club’s race results carefully. In summary, for boats that miss a race, the effect of the newly introduced realignment after every race is far more dominant than the true progression from the race results. A progressive handicap system needs to respond fairly to the actual results, and not have arbitrary effects like this.
The boats not sailing change the composition of the boats being used in the realignment, which causes a realignment to take place that is dominated by just the shift in composition of the boats in the averaging process. When a boat not in this realignment rejoins the next race, then there has been a relative distortion in handicaps. This effect is unfortunately much more significant than the adjustments to the handicaps that have occurred from the actual race results.
This means changes to the relativities between the handicaps for boats as they miss and re-enter races are dominated by undesirable arbitrary effects.
I’ve created a small spreadsheet that shows these effects for my club and I would be happy to share this together with a more detailed commentary with anyone wanting to look into the issue in more depth. Email me if you’d like to see this and I’ll send it to you.
For the time being I would recommend that no-one should use NHC 2014 for small fleets. With caution and understanding, it might be ok for large fleets where there are relatively few boats missing some but not all races, where the problem might not be as severe, but otherwise I would recommend using fixed handicaps from the end of last year under NHC 2013, which will be ok as long as the problems caused by extreme performers are adjusted out - NHC 2014 does deal with this issue well, but this good point is of secondary importance to the main problem.
Best wishes,
Alan