Hi Ralph,
I agree with Colin's comments.
Now if Colin can enhance SailWave to be YR2 compliant then more people might
make annual returns to the RYA.
I suggested quite a while ago to Stuart Creswell that the RYA should request
the clubs to return the raw data for all races that they run using the
Portsmouth Yardstick Scheme for the RYA to then analyse. I also
suggested/questioned several other tenets of the scheme, e.g. why use the
top 2/3; I suggested that consideration be given to the 15% to 85% band,
i.e. approx. the middle 2/3 of those racing to eliminate the best & worst
performers.
Colin has offered to include a mechanism to output information in a format
that can be easily imported into an analysis program. I think the data
required is pretty minimal, e.g.
Club Information
- Name
- Contact Person
- Type of Water
Per Race information
- Class
- Sail No.
- any variation to rig
- elapsed time
- ?wind speed
At SailBoat this year Ken Kershaw did a presentation on the Portsmouth
Yardstick Scheme which was very interesting, if you like this sort of thing!
During the presentation he said the RYA were going to be putting a
specification for race results programmes together and suggested that
programmes that passed a validation suite might be branded as YR2
compatible/compliant. The specification was to include provision for making
annual returns.
For the groups information; below are some notes I made of the presentation
to send to someone in Australia:
The RYA write an article or make a presentation on the scheme every 10 years
or so - with the changes they are planning to make the meeting suggested
that it should not be 10 years before the next issue of information on the
workings of the scheme! There were approximately 35 people at the seminar.
Some short bullet points:
- the data returned by the clubs is held in a Microsoft Access database
- 207 returns from 800 sent in year 2000
- 207 returns produced approx 2000 lines of data
- data 'cleansing' takes approx 2 weeks, i.e. Taser or Tazer, GP14 or GP 14
- Portsmouth Yardstick Advisory Panel met in January 2001 to determine the
figures for each class to be published for 2001
The PYAP decides to publish or not a PN (YS) for each class and as what
(i.e. PY, SY, RN or RR), for example in 1999 analysis
- PY dinghies had between 2,000 and 42,000 boat races over 3 years
- PY cruisers had between 57 and 453 boat races over 3 years
- PY qualification by having Tot. Cal value equal to previous year
- SY dinghies had between 414 and 4,000 boat races over 3 years
- SY cruiser had between 25 and 374 boat races over 3 years
- SY qualification by having Tot. Cal. value + -(minus) 20% of previous
year
- RN dinghies had between 19 and 5,000 boat races over 3 years
- RN cruisers had between 11 and 192 boat races over 3 years
- RN qualification at least 2 clubs making a return that year
- PN are not published when fewer that 2 clubs or 2 boats over 3 years
- PN not published numbers returned outside + -(minus) 10%
It has been shown that, like club variation, over the years the tables
'drift'. The return from each club is assessed and a 'variation value'
calculated for each class returned by that club. Each class variation is
then summed in ration of the number of boat races per classes to give an
indication of the club variation. The club variations are used in 2 ways
- to assess the usefulness of the return
- to calculate variation numbers for the club
Usefulness of a return is questioned if the a club variation is >2%, then
more consideration is given to the return. i.e.
- the club will be contacted and their return discussed
- return is quarantined until feedback from the club obtained
In year 2000 out of the 207 returns, 14 were quarantined and discussed with
the club
What for the future?
- the RYA are going full out for electronic web
- more returns and better assessment
- simpler returns requirement for the clubs
- much of this is up to the Clubs & Classes
- RYA to produce specification for what/how a race results program should
produce results and how it should generate annual RYA Portsmouth Yardstick
Return data
I will try and keep up to date on the last point and keep you informed.
Stuart Creswell also suggested that you be kept informed of developments on
the Race Results specification. The RYA are not going to commission a
program only produce a specification, they will then endorse those programs
that meet, after assessment, the specification. Well that's what they
suggested at the seminar!
Ralph - you might be able to give an update on the specification of a race
results program.
Regards,
Huw Pearce
Vice Commodore & WebMaster, Datchet Water Sailing Club
www www.dwsc.co.uk <http://www.dwsc.co.uk>
e-mail sailing@dwsc.co.uk <mailto:sailing@dwsc.co.uk>
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colinjenkins@talk21.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 10:59 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Re: RYA HANDICAP SYSTEM
Hi Ralph,
I must admit that I find doing an RYA PY return hard going; I don't find YR2
easy to follow, but that's probably just me. How about working like the USA
does (I think) - clubs simply send in series results - elapsed, corrected
etc, and the RYA (software) does the rest. I'm sure you'd get an order of
magnitude (at least) increase in club participation and it avoids club
errors which I'm sure are not infrequent. Another advantage is that you can
fiddle with the maths currently hardwired in YR2. Sailwave (etc) could help
here to provide series results in a format (specified by the RYA) that's
easily imported into some number crunching software at the RYA...
Regards,
Colin
-----Original Message-----
From: ExcelRAT@cs.com [mailto:ExcelRAT@cs.com]
Sent: 24 November 2001 20:46
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: RYA HANDICAP SYSTEM
Hi Simon,
The system for "sending a handicap report" to the RYA is through the annual
return which should by now have been sent to Eastleigh.
To outline the system briefly:
Clubs send in their annual return which contains the PY's which they use in
their club, this may be YR2 PN's or those which are relevant to your water.
All the returns are summarised & we then look at the recommendations by
clubs
along with trends over the last 3 years for each class & determine a PY for
next year (there is some very complicated maths to produce statistical data
which I won't bore you with)
If your club has not sent in its return, you may wish to write to Ken
Kershaw
(Ken_Kershaw@rya.org.uk) with your thoughts and the new configuration for
consideration at our meeting in January 2002.
YR2 also includes a method for adjusting/re-evaluating PY's during the year
but can be very complicated to follow. By coincidence, we are currently
looking at how the process can be simplified to encourage more clubs to
review PY's during the year rather than use YR2 which is an average for all
clubs over all waters. I was interested to hear that you have used Sailwave
to calculate a reasonable handicap & would be grateful if you could let me
know how you did it and the logic you used to establish where the Blaze fits
in relative to other boats.
For other members of SUG, we are all aware that handicapping is not an exact
science & will obviously vary from boat to boat in relation to wind
strength,
course configuration, skills levels of the crews etc etc. The efforts of the
RYA to produce a handicapping system are often questioned and how many times
do we hear comments in the boat park re dubious PY's. Unfortunately,
relatively few clubs send in their annual return and in the absence of more
data, we can only do our best.
At the risk of being inundated with replies (yes please!) I would be
interested in any comments (constructive please) which Handicap/Results
Officers may have on the present system.
This is not an official RYA request but I promise that I will summarise any
comments/observations & pass them on at our next meeting
Ralph Tingle
Member Portsmouth Yardstick Advisory Panel
Ogston SC
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