sail no wizard

Imported from Yahoo
21

Hi Mark,

No, you can import defined results like sailno+place or sailno+finish-time.
The idea was sailno's only with implicit places.

CJ

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
Sent: 10 August 2004 19:52
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com; sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] sail no wizard

Can't you import the sail numbers already using the import feature?

-------Original Message-------

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 08/10/04 10:34:11
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] sail no wizard

Hi Ed,

What I had in mind was that somebody on the race boat had maybe
jotted down
the saiil numbers into a pocket PC. They come ashore - copy the
file to the
PC and then just paste the sail numbers into the SailNo wizard.

You are right about the double entry - now that starts explicitly define
start times and the type of result expected it's possible - I
could preview
what the expected result will be on the tab where the sail number
is entered
and unless the user intervens, go with it. In fact i could get rid of the
single enter too if it went into action as soon as the sail matched - but
that's probably too dangerous :slight_smile:

Colin
www.sailwave.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: J. Edward (Ed) Muns [mailto:w0yk@msn.com]
> Sent: 10 August 2004 18:10
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] sail no wizard
>
>
> One has to enter sail numbers one by one ... somewhere, so why
> not directly
> into the sail number wizard? I find it very useful and sometimes
> even enter
> sail numbers as they are being called out by the PRO as the boats
> cross the
> finish. However, I find annoying the requirement (or, is it my
> ineptness at
> using the wizard) to have to hit Enter twice for each sail
> number. The next
> effort I'd rather see in the sail number wizard code is making it more
> streamlined so as to only require one Enter action. Or,
patiently explain
> to me what I'm doing wrong!
>
> Thanks,
> Ed
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:03 AM
> > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [sailwave] sail no wizard
> >
> >
> > The sail number wizard is obviously pretty useful, but you have
> > to enter the
> > sail numbers by hand one by one. Would it be a good option
to allow the
> > sail numbers to be either entered one per line or pasted from
> an external
> > source into a text box and then let the wizard rip on the
whole lot...?
> > With the new start stuff explicitly defining start times and
delineating
> > competitors in flights it would be safe. (apart from bugs
> > introduced by me).
> >
> > Regards
> > Colin
> > www.sailwave.com
> >
> >
> > ---
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22

For the purposes of finishing using a computer you need to be able to
capture the finish time and sailnumber.

A program that allowed you to use the computer like a recording stopwatch
would be useful. You enter the sail number and when you press enter the time
and date are recorded. In case you have a large number of boats finishing
together you would need the ability to capture the finish time and date
without a sail number, and later go back and add the sail numbers. Once you
have a complete finishing list you could then import the results file into
sailwave and score the race.

···

-------Original Message-------

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 08/10/04 12:27:44
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] sail no wizard

Hi Andy,

the
only time there was a problem was when a number of boats were approaching
the finish line in close succession. Not quite sure what the
answer to that
is though, but maybe something along the lines that you are suggesting.

Or perhaps some sort of jotting 'pad area' on the screen where you can type
stuff for information purposes only that is sticky across successive sail
number entries...?

Assuming that the PC can be time synchronised it may be useful to
be able to
set the finish time from the PC clock, maybe by pressing a function key as
they cross the line.

That is very easy for me to do as long as the user accepts responsibility
for getting the start times in the starts accurate. Even then there is the
possibility of adding another field to a start with is a generic offset
that applies to all boats, so that everybody can be synchronised after the
fact.

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

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23

How about creating a wizard that works like a recording stop watch and
builds a finish file, sail number + finish time. Then use the import feature

···

-------Original Message-------

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 08/10/04 13:29:01
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] sail no wizard

Hi Mark,

No, you can import defined results like sailno+place or sailno+finish-time.
The idea was sailno's only with implicit places.

CJ

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
Sent: 10 August 2004 19:52
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com; sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] sail no wizard

Can't you import the sail numbers already using the import feature?

-------Original Message-------

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 08/10/04 10:34:11
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] sail no wizard

Hi Ed,

What I had in mind was that somebody on the race boat had maybe
jotted down
the saiil numbers into a pocket PC. They come ashore - copy the
file to the
PC and then just paste the sail numbers into the SailNo wizard.

You are right about the double entry - now that starts explicitly define
start times and the type of result expected it's possible - I
could preview
what the expected result will be on the tab where the sail number
is entered
and unless the user intervens, go with it. In fact i could get rid of the
single enter too if it went into action as soon as the sail matched - but
that's probably too dangerous :slight_smile:

Colin
www.sailwave.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: J. Edward (Ed) Muns [mailto:w0yk@msn.com]
> Sent: 10 August 2004 18:10
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] sail no wizard
>
>
> One has to enter sail numbers one by one ... somewhere, so why
> not directly
> into the sail number wizard? I find it very useful and sometimes
> even enter
> sail numbers as they are being called out by the PRO as the boats
> cross the
> finish. However, I find annoying the requirement (or, is it my
> ineptness at
> using the wizard) to have to hit Enter twice for each sail
> number. The next
> effort I'd rather see in the sail number wizard code is making it more
> streamlined so as to only require one Enter action. Or,
patiently explain
> to me what I'm doing wrong!
>
> Thanks,
> Ed
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 10:03 AM
> > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [sailwave] sail no wizard
> >
> >
> > The sail number wizard is obviously pretty useful, but you have
> > to enter the
> > sail numbers by hand one by one. Would it be a good option
to allow the
> > sail numbers to be either entered one per line or pasted from
> an external
> > source into a text box and then let the wizard rip on the
whole lot...?
> > With the new start stuff explicitly defining start times and
delineating
> > competitors in flights it would be safe. (apart from bugs
> > introduced by me).
> >
> > Regards
> > Colin
> > www.sailwave.com
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 06/08/2004
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> >
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24

I'm not convinced auto entry is best system, we had it on our old computer and it can
cause problems in big fleets, its too easy to hit the key too many times, say you've got 5
boats finishing and hit it 6 times, you've then got a time without a boat, try sorting that
out as another group of boats finishes. it would be a nice feature to have for club racing
though or smaller fleet scenarios.

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Townsend" <s_mark_townsend@h...> wrote:

For the purposes of finishing using a computer you need to be able to
capture the finish time and sailnumber.

A program that allowed you to use the computer like a recording stopwatch
would be useful. You enter the sail number and when you press enter the time
and date are recorded. In case you have a large number of boats finishing
together you would need the ability to capture the finish time and date
without a sail number, and later go back and add the sail numbers. Once you
have a complete finishing list you could then import the results file into
sailwave and score the race.

-------Original Message-------

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 08/10/04 12:27:44
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] sail no wizard

Hi Andy,

> the
> only time there was a problem was when a number of boats were approaching
> the finish line in close succession. Not quite sure what the
> answer to that
> is though, but maybe something along the lines that you are suggesting.

Or perhaps some sort of jotting 'pad area' on the screen where you can type
stuff for information purposes only that is sticky across successive sail
number entries...?

> Assuming that the PC can be time synchronised it may be useful to
> be able to
> set the finish time from the PC clock, maybe by pressing a function key as
> they cross the line.

That is very easy for me to do as long as the user accepts responsibility
for getting the start times in the starts accurate. Even then there is the
possibility of adding another field to a start with is a generic offset
that applies to all boats, so that everybody can be synchronised after the
fact.

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

---
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25

I agree with Michael, it's useful in the right scenarios.

Another thought. What if the times could be generated by someone pressing a big red button connected to the serial port, or something. This could delegate this to one person and would free up the keyboard for someone else filling in the sail numbers. A little "of the wall", but intended to provoke further discussion..

Andy.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Michael
  To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 8:15 AM
  Subject: [sailwave] Re: sail no wizard

  I'm not convinced auto entry is best system, we had it on our old computer and it can
  cause problems in big fleets, its too easy to hit the key too many times, say you've got 5
  boats finishing and hit it 6 times, you've then got a time without a boat, try sorting that
  out as another group of boats finishes. it would be a nice feature to have for club racing
  though or smaller fleet scenarios.

  --- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Townsend" <s_mark_townsend@h...> wrote:
  > For the purposes of finishing using a computer you need to be able to
  > capture the finish time and sailnumber.
  >
  > A program that allowed you to use the computer like a recording stopwatch
  > would be useful. You enter the sail number and when you press enter the time
  > and date are recorded. In case you have a large number of boats finishing
  > together you would need the ability to capture the finish time and date
  > without a sail number, and later go back and add the sail numbers. Once you
  > have a complete finishing list you could then import the results file into
  > sailwave and score the race.
  >
  >
  >
  > -------Original Message-------
  >
  > From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  > Date: 08/10/04 12:27:44
  > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  > Subject: RE: [sailwave] sail no wizard
  >
  > Hi Andy,
  >
  > > the
  > > only time there was a problem was when a number of boats were approaching
  > > the finish line in close succession. Not quite sure what the
  > > answer to that
  > > is though, but maybe something along the lines that you are suggesting.
  >
  > Or perhaps some sort of jotting 'pad area' on the screen where you can type
  > stuff for information purposes only that is sticky across successive sail
  > number entries...?
  >
  > > Assuming that the PC can be time synchronised it may be useful to
  > > be able to
  > > set the finish time from the PC clock, maybe by pressing a function key as
  > > they cross the line.
  >
  > That is very easy for me to do as long as the user accepts responsibility
  > for getting the start times in the starts accurate. Even then there is the
  > possibility of adding another field to a start with is a generic offset
  > that applies to all boats, so that everybody can be synchronised after the
  > fact.
  >
  > Regards,
  > Colin
  > www.sailwave.com
  >
  > ---
  > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
  > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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26

Hi Andy,

Systems like that seem to exist and are cheap(ish) - see the 'useful links'
section of the sailwave library page. Then Start sequencing and time
recording section. I think the Cat Round Isle of Wight uses Prolog and then
imports into Sailwave.

http://www.sailwave.com?page=links

Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Dennis [mailto:andy.dennis@btinternet.com]
Sent: 11 August 2004 09:09
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: sail no wizard

I agree with Michael, it's useful in the right scenarios.

Another thought. What if the times could be generated by someone
pressing a big red button connected to the serial port, or
something. This could delegate this to one person and would free
up the keyboard for someone else filling in the sail numbers. A
little "of the wall", but intended to provoke further discussion..

Andy.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Michael
  To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 8:15 AM
  Subject: [sailwave] Re: sail no wizard

  I'm not convinced auto entry is best system, we had it on our
old computer and it can
  cause problems in big fleets, its too easy to hit the key too
many times, say you've got 5
  boats finishing and hit it 6 times, you've then got a time
without a boat, try sorting that
  out as another group of boats finishes. it would be a nice
feature to have for club racing
  though or smaller fleet scenarios.

  --- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Townsend"
<s_mark_townsend@h...> wrote:
  > For the purposes of finishing using a computer you need to be able to
  > capture the finish time and sailnumber.
  >
  > A program that allowed you to use the computer like a
recording stopwatch
  > would be useful. You enter the sail number and when you press
enter the time
  > and date are recorded. In case you have a large number of
boats finishing
  > together you would need the ability to capture the finish
time and date
  > without a sail number, and later go back and add the sail
numbers. Once you
  > have a complete finishing list you could then import the
results file into
  > sailwave and score the race.
  >
  >
  >
  > -------Original Message-------
  >
  > From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  > Date: 08/10/04 12:27:44
  > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  > Subject: RE: [sailwave] sail no wizard
  >
  > Hi Andy,
  >
  > > the
  > > only time there was a problem was when a number of boats
were approaching
  > > the finish line in close succession. Not quite sure what the
  > > answer to that
  > > is though, but maybe something along the lines that you are
suggesting.
  >
  > Or perhaps some sort of jotting 'pad area' on the screen
where you can type
  > stuff for information purposes only that is sticky across
successive sail
  > number entries...?
  >
  > > Assuming that the PC can be time synchronised it may be useful to
  > > be able to
  > > set the finish time from the PC clock, maybe by pressing a
function key as
  > > they cross the line.
  >
  > That is very easy for me to do as long as the user accepts
responsibility
  > for getting the start times in the starts accurate. Even
then there is the
  > possibility of adding another field to a start with is a
generic offset
  > that applies to all boats, so that everybody can be
synchronised after the
  > fact.
  >
  > Regards,
  > Colin
  > www.sailwave.com
  >
  > ---
  > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
  > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
  > Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 06/08/2004
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27

Hi Andy,

Talking of off the wall...,

When I had a real job I was in academia and did research in artificial
intelligence - specifically vision - I often wonder about a system that not
only takes times but reads the sail numbers as well (not that hard in
itself), confusion at the end is no problem as long as the system has been
tracking them...

But it's probably easier to do with sensors and unique transmitters on each
boat...? I think the guys from Regatta Service Europe have been thinking
about this for a while but while some solutions look promising there is
always a wrinkle that makes it not worth the while... but perhaps they've
cracked it now...

As far as Sailwave is concerned it probably needs N types of 'sailno wizard'
each suited to a different context - some real-time and some not.

Colin
www.sialwave.com

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Dennis [mailto:andy.dennis@btinternet.com]
Sent: 11 August 2004 09:09
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: sail no wizard

I agree with Michael, it's useful in the right scenarios.

Another thought. What if the times could be generated by someone
pressing a big red button connected to the serial port, or
something. This could delegate this to one person and would free
up the keyboard for someone else filling in the sail numbers. A
little "of the wall", but intended to provoke further discussion..

Andy.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Michael
  To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 8:15 AM
  Subject: [sailwave] Re: sail no wizard

  I'm not convinced auto entry is best system, we had it on our
old computer and it can
  cause problems in big fleets, its too easy to hit the key too
many times, say you've got 5
  boats finishing and hit it 6 times, you've then got a time
without a boat, try sorting that
  out as another group of boats finishes. it would be a nice
feature to have for club racing
  though or smaller fleet scenarios.

  --- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Townsend"
<s_mark_townsend@h...> wrote:
  > For the purposes of finishing using a computer you need to be able to
  > capture the finish time and sailnumber.
  >
  > A program that allowed you to use the computer like a
recording stopwatch
  > would be useful. You enter the sail number and when you press
enter the time
  > and date are recorded. In case you have a large number of
boats finishing
  > together you would need the ability to capture the finish
time and date
  > without a sail number, and later go back and add the sail
numbers. Once you
  > have a complete finishing list you could then import the
results file into
  > sailwave and score the race.
  >
  >
  >
  > -------Original Message-------
  >
  > From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  > Date: 08/10/04 12:27:44
  > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  > Subject: RE: [sailwave] sail no wizard
  >
  > Hi Andy,
  >
  > > the
  > > only time there was a problem was when a number of boats
were approaching
  > > the finish line in close succession. Not quite sure what the
  > > answer to that
  > > is though, but maybe something along the lines that you are
suggesting.
  >
  > Or perhaps some sort of jotting 'pad area' on the screen
where you can type
  > stuff for information purposes only that is sticky across
successive sail
  > number entries...?
  >
  > > Assuming that the PC can be time synchronised it may be useful to
  > > be able to
  > > set the finish time from the PC clock, maybe by pressing a
function key as
  > > they cross the line.
  >
  > That is very easy for me to do as long as the user accepts
responsibility
  > for getting the start times in the starts accurate. Even
then there is the
  > possibility of adding another field to a start with is a
generic offset
  > that applies to all boats, so that everybody can be
synchronised after the
  > fact.
  >
  > Regards,
  > Colin
  > www.sailwave.com
  >
  > ---
  > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
  > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
  > Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 06/08/2004
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28

Like anything you don't rely on it 100%. You will still need several scorers
to manually record sail numbers and finish times. At the end of the race you
still need to go back and check it against the hand written finish sheets
and also the tape recording. Recording stop watches have the same problem,
if you press the button by accident you get an extra time, I don't see
people not using them because of this.

mark

···

-------Original Message-------

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 08/11/04 01:10:11
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: sail no wizard

I agree with Michael, it's useful in the right scenarios.

Another thought. What if the times could be generated by someone pressing a
big red button connected to the serial port, or something. This could
delegate this to one person and would free up the keyboard for someone else
filling in the sail numbers. A little "of the wall", but intended to
provoke further discussion..

Andy.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Michael
  To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 8:15 AM
  Subject: [sailwave] Re: sail no wizard

  I'm not convinced auto entry is best system, we had it on our old computer
and it can
  cause problems in big fleets, its too easy to hit the key too many times,
say you've got 5
  boats finishing and hit it 6 times, you've then got a time without a boat,
try sorting that
  out as another group of boats finishes. it would be a nice feature to have
for club racing
  though or smaller fleet scenarios.

  --- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Townsend" <s_mark_townsend@h...>
wrote:
  > For the purposes of finishing using a computer you need to be able to
  > capture the finish time and sailnumber.
  >
  > A program that allowed you to use the computer like a recording
stopwatch
  > would be useful. You enter the sail number and when you press enter the
time
  > and date are recorded. In case you have a large number of boats
finishing
  > together you would need the ability to capture the finish time and date
  > without a sail number, and later go back and add the sail numbers. Once
you
  > have a complete finishing list you could then import the results file
into
  > sailwave and score the race.
  >
  >
  >
  > -------Original Message-------
  >
  > From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  > Date: 08/10/04 12:27:44
  > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  > Subject: RE: [sailwave] sail no wizard
  >
  > Hi Andy,
  >
  > > the
  > > only time there was a problem was when a number of boats were
approaching
  > > the finish line in close succession. Not quite sure what the
  > > answer to that
  > > is though, but maybe something along the lines that you are suggesting

  >
  > Or perhaps some sort of jotting 'pad area' on the screen where you can
type
  > stuff for information purposes only that is sticky across successive
sail
  > number entries...?
  >
  > > Assuming that the PC can be time synchronised it may be useful to
  > > be able to
  > > set the finish time from the PC clock, maybe by pressing a function
key as
  > > they cross the line.
  >
  > That is very easy for me to do as long as the user accepts
responsibility
  > for getting the start times in the starts accurate. Even then there is
the
  > possibility of adding another field to a start with is a generic offset
  > that applies to all boats, so that everybody can be synchronised after
the
  > fact.
  >
  > Regards,
  > Colin
  > www.sailwave.com
  >
  > ---
  > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
  > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
  > Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 06/08/2004
  >
  >
  >
  >
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  > sailwave.com/ -!-
  >
  > Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
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29

Its far harder to sort out in "real time" on a computer, good old pen and paper are easy to
write notes against a time or just cross it out. System we use is a timer linked to a printer
and also a written check sheet, personally I find it way easier to cross check this way than
reading off a screen. The other big benefit is that the computer operators can be seperate
to the time /sail number recorders so they can be inputting say every 25 boats and not
disturbing the time recorders, when its all linked to one computer its a lot for one person
to do

I'm not saying don't do it but its usefulness is limited, make sure you have back up
recorders.

michael

···

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Townsend" <s_mark_townsend@h...> wrote:

Like anything you don't rely on it 100%. You will still need several scorers
to manually record sail numbers and finish times. At the end of the race you
still need to go back and check it against the hand written finish sheets
and also the tape recording. Recording stop watches have the same problem,
if you press the button by accident you get an extra time, I don't see
people not using them because of this.

mark

-------Original Message-------

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 08/11/04 01:10:11
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: sail no wizard

I agree with Michael, it's useful in the right scenarios.

Another thought. What if the times could be generated by someone pressing a
big red button connected to the serial port, or something. This could
delegate this to one person and would free up the keyboard for someone else
filling in the sail numbers. A little "of the wall", but intended to
provoke further discussion..

Andy.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Michael
  To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 8:15 AM
  Subject: [sailwave] Re: sail no wizard

  I'm not convinced auto entry is best system, we had it on our old computer
and it can
  cause problems in big fleets, its too easy to hit the key too many times,
say you've got 5
  boats finishing and hit it 6 times, you've then got a time without a boat,
try sorting that
  out as another group of boats finishes. it would be a nice feature to have
for club racing
  though or smaller fleet scenarios.

  --- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Townsend" <s_mark_townsend@h...>
wrote:
  > For the purposes of finishing using a computer you need to be able to
  > capture the finish time and sailnumber.
  >
  > A program that allowed you to use the computer like a recording
stopwatch
  > would be useful. You enter the sail number and when you press enter the
time
  > and date are recorded. In case you have a large number of boats
finishing
  > together you would need the ability to capture the finish time and date
  > without a sail number, and later go back and add the sail numbers. Once
you
  > have a complete finishing list you could then import the results file
into
  > sailwave and score the race.
  >
  >
  >
  > -------Original Message-------
  >
  > From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  > Date: 08/10/04 12:27:44
  > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  > Subject: RE: [sailwave] sail no wizard
  >
  > Hi Andy,
  >
  > > the
  > > only time there was a problem was when a number of boats were
approaching
  > > the finish line in close succession. Not quite sure what the
  > > answer to that
  > > is though, but maybe something along the lines that you are suggesting

  >
  > Or perhaps some sort of jotting 'pad area' on the screen where you can
type
  > stuff for information purposes only that is sticky across successive
sail
  > number entries...?
  >
  > > Assuming that the PC can be time synchronised it may be useful to
  > > be able to
  > > set the finish time from the PC clock, maybe by pressing a function
key as
  > > they cross the line.
  >
  > That is very easy for me to do as long as the user accepts
responsibility
  > for getting the start times in the starts accurate. Even then there is
the
  > possibility of adding another field to a start with is a generic offset
  > that applies to all boats, so that everybody can be synchronised after
the
  > fact.
  >
  > Regards,
  > Colin
  > www.sailwave.com
  >
  > ---
  > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
  > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
  > Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 06/08/2004
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!- http://www
  > sailwave.com/ -!-
  >
  > Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
  > sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
  > Yahoo! Groups Links
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
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30

Hi Guys

It gets to the stage when there is so much going on in Sailwave that is
takes away the basic principle KISS this has been the success of Sailwave it
has been easy to use and is most things to most clubs - IT WILL NEVER BE ALL
THINGS TO ALL CLUBS. Better that the clubs change their systems than
Sailwave accommodates all.

Colin, you are doing a brilliant job with this but you will need the
resource of Bill Gates to provide all that people are asking for, there is a
word you should learn to use it is small and easy - the word is NO. I know
it is good to try and please everyone BUT YOU NEVER WILL - so stop trying.

SAILWAVE is brilliant - publish it - earn some money from it - take the
family on holiday - buy a big boat - take over Bill Gates empire then
provide all they ask for. Even then they will still ask for more and more !

Best Regards

Paul French

Paul French and Associates

Approved by the DTi

to act as a Mentor for their Grant scheme

"Investigating an Innovative Idea"

<http://www.ecademy.com/node.php?id=44850>

Tel: +44 (0)1590 645578 Cell: +44 (0)7779 264054 Fax: 08707 104488

e-mail (1) paul@idstechnology.co.uk <mailto:paul@idsetchnology.co.uk>
URL: www.idstechnology.co.uk <http://www.idstechnology.co.uk/> e-mail
(2) info@wingstraining.com URL:(2) www.wingstraining.com
<http://www.wingstraining.com/>

Application Development - RFID - IT Solutions & Support - Security -
Business Management - Training & Consultancy

···

_____

From: Michael [mailto:orange@idnet.co.uk]
Sent: 11 August 2004 16:02
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: sail no wizard

Its far harder to sort out in "real time" on a computer, good old pen and
paper are easy to
write notes against a time or just cross it out. System we use is a timer
linked to a printer
and also a written check sheet, personally I find it way easier to cross
check this way than
reading off a screen. The other big benefit is that the computer operators
can be seperate
to the time /sail number recorders so they can be inputting say every 25
boats and not
disturbing the time recorders, when its all linked to one computer its a lot
for one person
to do

I'm not saying don't do it but its usefulness is limited, make sure you have
back up
recorders.

michael

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Townsend" <s_mark_townsend@h...>
wrote:

Like anything you don't rely on it 100%. You will still need several

scorers

to manually record sail numbers and finish times. At the end of the race

you

still need to go back and check it against the hand written finish sheets
and also the tape recording. Recording stop watches have the same problem,
if you press the button by accident you get an extra time, I don't see
people not using them because of this.

mark

-------Original Message-------

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: 08/11/04 01:10:11
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: sail no wizard

I agree with Michael, it's useful in the right scenarios.

Another thought. What if the times could be generated by someone pressing

a

big red button connected to the serial port, or something. This could
delegate this to one person and would free up the keyboard for someone

else

filling in the sail numbers. A little "of the wall", but intended to
provoke further discussion..

Andy.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Michael
  To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 8:15 AM
  Subject: [sailwave] Re: sail no wizard

  I'm not convinced auto entry is best system, we had it on our old

computer

and it can
  cause problems in big fleets, its too easy to hit the key too many

times,

say you've got 5
  boats finishing and hit it 6 times, you've then got a time without a

boat,

try sorting that
  out as another group of boats finishes. it would be a nice feature to

have

for club racing
  though or smaller fleet scenarios.

  --- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Townsend" <s_mark_townsend@h...>
wrote:
  > For the purposes of finishing using a computer you need to be able to
  > capture the finish time and sailnumber.
  >
  > A program that allowed you to use the computer like a recording
stopwatch
  > would be useful. You enter the sail number and when you press enter

the

time
  > and date are recorded. In case you have a large number of boats
finishing
  > together you would need the ability to capture the finish time and

date

  > without a sail number, and later go back and add the sail numbers.

Once

you
  > have a complete finishing list you could then import the results file
into
  > sailwave and score the race.
  >
  >
  >
  > -------Original Message-------
  >
  > From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  > Date: 08/10/04 12:27:44
  > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
  > Subject: RE: [sailwave] sail no wizard
  >
  > Hi Andy,
  >
  > > the
  > > only time there was a problem was when a number of boats were
approaching
  > > the finish line in close succession. Not quite sure what the
  > > answer to that
  > > is though, but maybe something along the lines that you are

suggesting

  >
  > Or perhaps some sort of jotting 'pad area' on the screen where you can
type
  > stuff for information purposes only that is sticky across successive
sail
  > number entries...?
  >
  > > Assuming that the PC can be time synchronised it may be useful to
  > > be able to
  > > set the finish time from the PC clock, maybe by pressing a function
key as
  > > they cross the line.
  >
  > That is very easy for me to do as long as the user accepts
responsibility
  > for getting the start times in the starts accurate. Even then there

is

the
  > possibility of adding another field to a start with is a generic

offset

  > that applies to all boats, so that everybody can be synchronised after
the
  > fact.
  >
  > Regards,
  > Colin
  > www.sailwave.com
  >
  > ---
  > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
  > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
  > Version: 6.0.735 / Virus Database: 489 - Release Date: 06/08/2004
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  >
  >
  > -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!- http://www
  > sailwave.com/ -!-
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31

Hi Colin,

Me again. :slight_smile:

I'm trying to noodle out one last problem I have with making Sailwave work for our club. I think I've mentioned in the past that our current software allows us to store multiple ratings for a single boat, and then choose which one to use based on the "Fleet" they are in. The big benefit of this is the ability to enter all of the competitor data one time, and then direct the software to use the correct rating, based on which fleet the boat is in for any given race.

The reason this is important to us, is that all of our boats have at least two ratings, and usually they have 4. This is a result of the P part of PHRF. Each boat, not each class, may have a unique rating. We refer to the 4 ratings as:

#1 FS-SP : Flying Sails Speed Potential
#2 NFS-SP : Non-Flying Sails Speed Potential
#3 FS-ASP: Flying Sails Assigned Speed Potential
#4 NFS-ASP: Non-Flying Sails Assigned Speed Potential

Items 1 and 2 are usually (I have never seen them otherwise) the same for all boats of the same class. Items #3, and #4 are usually unique for each boat, based on modifications that the boat may have which give it an advantage, or disadvantage. The criteria for this is beyond my understanding, and seems to involve some sort of religion. Thus, I stay out of it. :slight_smile:

For example:
There are 7 x C&C 35 Mk II's in our database. All 7 of these boats have FS-SP rating of 120, and NFS-SP rating of 138. The FS-ASP, and NFS-ASP pairs for each boat are:
FS-ASP NFS-ASP
117 132
0 138
129 144
123 144
129 150

So I hope that explains the "why" of my question. :slight_smile: As for the "how", the preferred method (IMHO) would be to add fields to the competitor data, (perhaps: Rate2, Rate3, Rate4, Rate5, with the original remaining as is so it could still be selected with the Ratings files). Then, the rating to use could be "selected" in the Fleets Dialog box, perhaps under "Rating System". For example, it may look like this:
http://www.jibeho.ca/Members/ptoal/BHYC/sailwave_feature_request.png

The routine that calculates the results for each fleet would also need to be modified with the new logic.

I know that this is a non-trivial amount of work. In fact, I'd be willing to help in any way that I can, though I'm not sure what the best way for that to happen would be.

Thanks again for all your hard work.

Regards,
Patrick

32

Patrick:
The FS-SP and NFS-SP are the base ratings for the type of boat, they
are always the same for the same type of boat. These are not the
boats ratings, they are the base ratings that may be adjusted.

The FS-ASP and NFS-ASP (Adjusted Speed Potential) are the adjusted
ratings. Adjustments for propeller, genoa size, spinnaker size etc.

The FS-ASP (Spinnaker) and NFS-SAP (no flying sails) are the only
ratings you should use, so that each boat can only have 2 ratings,
one for spinnaker and one for no spinnaker.

The easy way to do this is to make up one large registratin file with
all boats in twice, once with each rating. For a race, use the import
feature to import competitors from another series.

Yours
John Crawley

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick J. Toal (Personal)"
<flyguy@t...> wrote:

Hi Colin,

Me again. :slight_smile:

I'm trying to noodle out one last problem I have with making

Sailwave

work for our club. I think I've mentioned in the past that our

current

software allows us to store multiple ratings for a single boat, and

then

  choose which one to use based on the "Fleet" they are in. The

big

benefit of this is the ability to enter all of the competitor data

one

time, and then direct the software to use the correct rating, based

on

which fleet the boat is in for any given race.

The reason this is important to us, is that all of our boats have

at

least two ratings, and usually they have 4. This is a result of

the P

part of PHRF. Each boat, not each class, may have a unique

rating. We

refer to the 4 ratings as:

#1 FS-SP : Flying Sails Speed Potential
#2 NFS-SP : Non-Flying Sails Speed Potential
#3 FS-ASP: Flying Sails Assigned Speed Potential
#4 NFS-ASP: Non-Flying Sails Assigned Speed Potential

Items 1 and 2 are usually (I have never seen them otherwise) the

same

for all boats of the same class. Items #3, and #4 are usually

unique

for each boat, based on modifications that the boat may have which

give

it an advantage, or disadvantage. The criteria for this is beyond

my

understanding, and seems to involve some sort of religion. Thus, I

stay

out of it. :slight_smile:

For example:
There are 7 x C&C 35 Mk II's in our database. All 7 of these boats

have

FS-SP rating of 120, and NFS-SP rating of 138. The FS-ASP, and NFS-

ASP

pairs for each boat are:
FS-ASP NFS-ASP
117 132
117 132
117 132
0 138
129 144
123 144
129 150

So I hope that explains the "why" of my question. :slight_smile: As for

the "how",

the preferred method (IMHO) would be to add fields to the

competitor

data, (perhaps: Rate2, Rate3, Rate4, Rate5, with the original

remaining

as is so it could still be selected with the Ratings files). Then,

the

rating to use could be "selected" in the Fleets Dialog box, perhaps
under "Rating System". For example, it may look like this:
http://www.jibeho.ca/Members/ptoal/BHYC/sailwave_feature_request.png

The routine that calculates the results for each fleet would also

need

to be modified with the new logic.

I know that this is a non-trivial amount of work. In fact, I'd be
willing to help in any way that I can, though I'm not sure what the

best

···

way for that to happen would be.

Thanks again for all your hard work.

Regards,
Patrick