[sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

Gee Whiz fellas,

                          I have seen a few other forums get stuffed up by Bitchyness. Looks like we are starting to get a few personal attacks here. I know it is cold and you probably aren't sailing up there in the Northern Hemispere but that is no excuse to sit on your PC and tear strips off each other. How about you get out in the shed and start fixing your boats for next year. If you guys have been having too many spirits drinks (for central heating ) before getting on the PC this winter,  how about just taking the Scotch, Rum, Brandy, whatever down to the Shed with the caffeine and fix the boat.

Don't Burn the website...

I'll put something good back into this BunFight. About 20 years ago I was watching the Aussie 14 Foot Title on Waterloo Bay. I was mucking around with this yacht at the time, for some races myself and my girlfriend had enough time to take other friends onboard but most days we didn't.

The New Years Eve race, (it was either 1988 or 1989 ), was very notable. One particular boat "Cleared Out ".  Like 6 minutes ahead of the next boat at the first mark!!!.  11 minutes next time around. The boat was maintaining the most incredible trim through the Waterloo Bay Slop, never putting its nose down. I had driven the last 2 man 18 around the same track for two seasons before in a tired boat, these guys would have eaten me.

 The 18, 16, 14, 12  Foot Skiff community in SE Qld was pretty well connected at the time and quite a few people were also connected with "Skiff Type" Ocean Racers. We had a 58 footer in Manly Boat Harbour at the time that was over 18 foot wide, weighted less than six tonnes, had a bit over 2 tonnes on the bottom of a wooden centerboard and had a second hand 12 Metre Rig stuck in the deck. It was a Wooden Boat and as for the 12 Metre rigs they  also had some MastHead Kites. They pranged it once and then chain-sawed some of the lead off in favour of more beer drinkers on the gunnel !!!!!...  And they also sailed it in the Coral Sea. Thousands of miles.

So the race is over, we get onto some of the New Years Eve Stuff after having put the boat away at RQYS. I had a deal with my Girlfriend - she would drive me back to RQ in my Aussie V8 4 speed Ute ( if I drove her up ), after the big night that was being hosted at the 16’s, for the 14’s. She did, but she was more spasticated than I was. You just have to love a good woman. I am involved in Transportology, all them licences. Gotta look after them.

During the evening, Myself, My Lover and a number of my friends from the Australian Skiff Sailing community had ample drinks, followed by the best Chinese Feed of my Life. There was this rough Chinese on the entrance to the Manly Village but they were set up for Banquets. They had a Gigantic Lazy Susan on a few of their bigger tables, we threw money at them, and the food just kept coming. Very sad that the place has now been demolished and our local member and Prime Minister who speaks Chinese and is a mate of Jackie Chans, couldn’t stop it. One of my best New Years, ever.

 We returned to the 16's for Auld Lang Syne and then laughted our heads off about the people who thought they could sleep in that yard, that night.

 That is not the punch line.

 I have noted that Lindsay Irwin was running 5th in the nominated Title in California. I am certain that it was he and his crew who cleared out on that day in 1988-1989. I had followed him because he had previously been involved in FD's. So had I. I have two FD's and two 18's on the roof of my garage. I remember him being involved in a major car acciddent during a title a while back, from which he has come back from also with his Sail Making Business

It is getting late, I’m tired. I don’t like seeing you blokes bringing to SUG, stuff that should have been sorted out in the Committee Room. I thinks that if I had to come to some of your outfits meetings, I would also to had to have hired an ambulalance. Perhaps I should have done that at my Club.

Very Tired Regards,

                               Mark Jones.
···

I’m
tired. I don’t like seeing you blokes bringing to SUG,
stuff that should have been sorted out in the Committee Room.

<<<

Hear hear Mark… as SUG Meister General please lets drop this now… I
will not be approving anymore moderated

emails on this subject… those of you not on moderated status (the
vast majority) please understand!!

many thanks… Simon

wrote:

···

markcoorparoo@aol.com

Gee Whiz fellas,

                          I have seen a few other forums get

stuffed up by Bitchyness. Looks like we are starting to get a few
personal attacks here. I know it is cold and you probably aren’t
sailing up there in the Northern Hemispere but that is no excuse to sit
on your PC and tear strips off each other. How about you get out in the
shed and start fixing your boats for next year. If you guys have been
having too many spirits drinks (for central heating ) before getting on
the PC this winter, how about just taking the Scotch, Rum, Brandy,
whatever down to the Shed with the caffeine and fix the boat.

Don't Burn the website...



I'll put something good back into this BunFight. About 20 years ago

I was watching the Aussie 14 Foot Title on Waterloo Bay. I was mucking
around with this yacht at the time, for some races myself and my
girlfriend had enough time to take other friends onboard but most days
we didn’t.

The New Years Eve race, (it was either 1988 or 1989 ), was very

notable. One particular boat "Cleared Out ". Like 6 minutes ahead of
the next boat at the first mark!!!. 11 minutes next time around. The
boat was maintaining the most incredible trim through the Waterloo Bay
Slop, never putting its nose down. I had driven the last 2 man 18
around the same track for two seasons before in a tired boat, these
guys would have eaten me.

 The 18, 16, 14, 12  Foot Skiff community in SE Qld was pretty well

connected at the time and quite a few people were also connected with
“Skiff Type” Ocean Racers. We had a 58 footer in Manly Boat Harbour at
the time that was over 18 foot wide, weighted less than six tonnes, had
a bit over 2 tonnes on the bottom of a wooden centerboard and had a
second hand 12 Metre Rig stuck in the deck. It was a Wooden Boat and as
for the 12 Metre rigs they also had some MastHead Kites. They pranged
it once and then chain-sawed some of the lead off in favour of more
beer drinkers on the gunnel !!!.. And they also sailed it in the
Coral Sea. Thousands of miles.

So the race is over, we get onto some of the New Years Eve Stuff
after having put the boat away at RQYS. I had a deal with my Girlfriend

  • she would drive me back to RQ in my Aussie V8 4 speed Ute ( if I
    drove her up ), after the big night that was being hosted at the 16’s,
    for the 14’s. She did, but she was more spasticated than I was. You
    just have to love a good woman. I am involved in Transportology, all
    them licences. Gotta look after them.

    During the evening, Myself, My Lover and a number of my friends
    from the Australian Skiff Sailing community had ample drinks, followed
    by the best Chinese Feed of my Life. There was this rough Chinese on
    the entrance to the Manly Village but they were set up for Banquets.
    They had a Gigantic Lazy Susan on a few of their bigger tables, we
    threw money at them, and the food just kept coming. Very sad that the
    place has now been demolished and our local member and Prime Minister
    who speaks Chinese and is a mate of Jackie Chans, couldn’t stop it. One
    of my best New Years, ever.

    We returned to the 16’s for Auld Lang Syne and then laughted our
    heads off about the people who thought they could sleep in that yard,
    that night.

    That is not the punch line.

    I have noted that Lindsay Irwin was running 5th in the nominated
    Title in California. I am certain that it was he and his crew who
    cleared out on that day in 1988-1989. I had followed him because he had
    previously been involved in FD’s. So had I. I have two FD’s and two
    18’s on the roof of my garage. I remember him being involved in a major
    car acciddent during a title a while back, from which he has come back
    from also with his Sail Making Business

    It is getting late, I’m tired. I don’t like seeing you blokes
    bringing to SUG, stuff that should have been sorted out in the
    Committee Room. I thinks that if I had to come to some of your outfits
    meetings, I would also to had to have hired an ambulalance. Perhaps I
    should have done that at my Club.

    Very Tired Regards,

                                 Mark Jones.
    

-- ______________________________________________________
Simon Smith
BT Day 01252 860264 Eve 01252 878032 Mob 07712 659276

simon@smith.net

While it may be a little sharp, I am enjoying what I find to be a worthwhile thread. This is really the only place I have found where the strengths of the various systems are discussed.

The old men in my club (I’m 66) think the low point system was written on the back of the stone tablets when Moses came off the mountain and see no reason to discuss such a thing. We usually race 4-8 boats out of a pool of 15 or so 6 weekends each season and end up with about 25 races. We toss 1/3 and require 1/3 to qualify.

The appeal of a high point system is that it seems always better for the top sailors to entice more boats to come out. The low point system has the opposite incentives. I have been unable to make this case :slight_smile:

It is always a balance between rewarding skill and participation.

…Gil

···

----- Original Message -----

From:
simon smith

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:57 AM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

** I’m tired. I don’t like seeing you blokes bringing to SUG,
stuff that should have been sorted out in the Committee Room.** <<<

Hear hear Mark… as SUG Meister General please lets drop this now… I will not be approving anymore moderated
emails on this subject… those of you not on moderated status (the vast majority) please understand!!

many thanks… Simon

markcoorparoo@aol.com wrote:

    Gee Whiz fellas,
                              I have seen a few other forums get stuffed up by Bitchyness. Looks like we are starting to get a few personal attacks here. I know it is cold and you probably aren't sailing up there in the Northern Hemispere but that is no excuse to sit on your PC and tear strips off each other. How about you get out in the shed and start fixing your boats for next year. If you guys have been having too many spirits drinks (for central heating ) before getting on the PC this winter,  how about just taking the Scotch, Rum, Brandy, whatever down to the Shed with the caffeine and fix the boat.

    Don't Burn the website...

    I'll put something good back into this BunFight. About 20 years ago I was watching the Aussie 14 Foot Title on Waterloo Bay. I was mucking around with this yacht at the time, for some races myself and my girlfriend had enough time to take other friends onboard but most days we didn't.

    The New Years Eve race, (it was either 1988 or 1989 ), was very notable. One particular boat "Cleared Out ".  Like 6 minutes ahead of the next boat at the first mark!!!.  11 minutes next time around. The boat was maintaining the most incredible trim through the Waterloo Bay Slop, never putting its nose down. I had driven the last 2 man 18 around the same track for two seasons before in a tired boat, these guys would have eaten me.

     The 18, 16, 14, 12  Foot Skiff community in SE Qld was pretty well connected at the time and quite a few people were also connected with "Skiff Type" Ocean Racers. We had a 58 footer in Manly Boat Harbour at the time that was over 18 foot wide, weighted less than six tonnes, had a bit over 2 tonnes on the bottom of a wooden centerboard and had a second hand 12 Metre Rig stuck in the deck. It was a Wooden Boat and as for the 12 Metre rigs they  also had some MastHead Kites. They pranged it once and then chain-sawed some of the lead off in favour of more beer drinkers on the gunnel !!!!!...  And they also sailed it in the Coral Sea. Thousands of miles.

   So the race is over, we get onto some of the New Years Eve Stuff after having put the boat away at RQYS. I had a deal with my Girlfriend - she would drive me back to RQ in my Aussie V8 4 speed  Ute  ( if I drove her up ), after the big night that was being hosted at the 16's, for the 14's.  She did, but she was more spasticated than I was. You just have to love a good woman. I am involved in Transportology, all them licences. Gotta look after them.

   During the evening,  Myself, My Lover and a number of my friends from  the Australian Skiff Sailing community had ample drinks, followed by the best Chinese Feed of my Life. There was this rough Chinese on the entrance to the Manly Village but they were set up for Banquets.  They had a Gigantic Lazy Susan  on a few of their bigger tables, we threw money at them, and the food just kept coming. Very sad that the place has now been demolished and our local member and Prime Minister who speaks Chinese and is a mate of Jackie Chans, couldn't stop it. One of my best New Years, ever.

     We returned to the 16's for Auld Lang Syne and then laughted our heads off about the people who thought they could sleep in that yard, that night.

     That is not the punch line.

     I have noted that Lindsay Irwin was running 5th in the nominated Title in California. I am certain that it was he and his crew who cleared out on that day in 1988-1989. I had followed him because he had previously been involved in FD's. So had I. I have two FD's and two 18's on the roof of my garage. I remember him being involved in a major car acciddent during a title a while back, from which he has come back from also with his Sail Making Business

   It is getting late, I'm tired. I don't like seeing you blokes bringing to SUG, stuff that should have been sorted out in the Committee Room. I thinks that if I had to come to some of your outfits meetings, I would  also to had to have hired an ambulalance. Perhaps I should have done that at my Club.


    Very Tired Regards,

                                   Mark Jones.
-- ______________________________________________________
Simon Smith
simon@smith.net
BT Day 01252 860264 Eve 01252 878032 Mob 07712 659276

Well said. Quit the personal attacks.

Unless you agree upon what you want to reward; participation, consistency, performance, you will continue to like and dislike different scoring systems. If you can’t agreee to the answewr to the question

Do you want to reward helms who perform well over those who have completed more races but performed less well?

High point and Low point tend to favor participation, consistency, performance differently.

Given the results of three boats, A, B, C. Who should win…

Boat A - 1, 1, 1, DNC, DNC, DNC

Boat B - 2, 3, 2, 2, 2, 2

Boat C - DNC, 2, DNC, 1, 1, 1

If you wish to encourage performance then Boat A.

If you wish to encourage participation then Boat B.

If you wish to encourage a blend of performance and participation then maybe Boat C.

Oh and in case we forgot… SailWave scores all the different systems correctly. Thank you Colin.

Mark Townsend s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com

···

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
From: gil42c@verizon.net
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:28:14 -0500
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

While it may be a little sharp, I am enjoying what I find to be a worthwhile thread. This is really the only place I have found where the strengths of the various systems are discussed.

The old men in my club (I’m 66) think the low point system was written on the back of the stone tablets when Moses came off the mountain and see no reason to discuss such a thing. We usually race 4-8 boats out of a pool of 15 or so 6 weekends each season and end up with about 25 races. We toss 1/3 and require 1/3 to qualify.

The appeal of a high point system is that it seems always better for the top sailors to entice more boats to come out. The low point system has the opposite incentives. I have been unable to make this case :slight_smile:

It is always a balance between rewarding skill and participation.

…Gil

----- Original Message -----

From: simon smith

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:57 AM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

I’m tired. I don’t like seeing you blokes bringing to SUG,
stuff that should have been sorted out in the Committee Room.
<<<

Hear hear Mark… as SUG Meister General please lets drop this now… I will not be approving anymore moderated
emails on this subject… those of you not on moderated status (the vast majority) please understand!!

many thanks… Simon

markcoorparoo@aol.com wrote:

Gee Whiz fellas,
                          I have seen a few other forums get stuffed up by Bitchyness. Looks like we are starting to get a few personal attacks here. I know it is cold and you probably aren't sailing up there in the Northern Hemispere but that is no excuse to sit on your PC and tear strips off each other. How about you get out in the shed and start fixing your boats for next year. If you guys have been having too many spirits drinks (for central heating ) before getting on the PC this winter,  how about just taking the Scotch, Rum, Brandy, whatever down to the Shed with the caffeine and fix the boat.

Don't Burn the website...

I'll put something good back into this BunFight. About 20 years ago I was watching the Aussie 14 Foot Title on Waterloo Bay. I was mucking around with this yacht at the time, for some races myself and my girlfriend had enough time to take other friends onboard but most days we didn't.

The New Years Eve race, (it was either 1988 or 1989 ), was very notable. One particular boat "Cleared Out ".  Like 6 minutes ahead of the next boat at the first mark!!!.  11 minutes next time around. The boat was maintaining the most incredible trim through the Waterloo Bay Slop, never putting its nose down. I had driven the last 2 man 18 around the same track for two seasons before in a tired boat, these guys would have eaten me.

 The 18, 16, 14, 12  Foot Skiff community in SE Qld was pretty well connected at the time and quite a few people were also connected with "Skiff Type" Ocean Racers. We had a 58 footer in Manly Boat Harbour at the time that was over 18 foot wide, weighted less than six tonnes, had a bit over 2 tonnes on the bottom of a wooden centerboard and had a second hand 12 Metre Rig stuck in the deck. It was a Wooden Boat and as for the 12 Metre rigs they  also had some MastHead Kites. They pranged it once and then chain-sawed some of the lead off in favour of more beer drinkers on the gunnel !!!!!...  And they also sailed it in the Coral Sea. Thousands of miles.

So the race is over, we get onto some of the New Years Eve Stuff after having put the boat away at RQYS. I had a deal with my Girlfriend - she would drive me back to RQ in my Aussie V8 4 speed Ute ( if I drove her up ), after the big night that was being hosted at the 16’s, for the 14’s. She did, but she was more spasticated than I was. You just have to love a good woman. I am involved in Transportology, all them licences. Gotta look after them.

During the evening, Myself, My Lover and a number of my friends from the Australian Skiff Sailing community had ample drinks, followed by the best Chinese Feed of my Life. There was this rough Chinese on the entrance to the Manly Village but they were set up for Banquets. They had a Gigantic Lazy Susan on a few of their bigger tables, we threw money at them, and the food just kept coming. Very sad that the place has now been demolished and our local member and Prime Minister who speaks Chinese and is a mate of Jackie Chans, couldn’t stop it. One of my best New Years, ever.

 We returned to the 16's for Auld Lang Syne and then laughted our heads off about the people who thought they could sleep in that yard, that night.

 That is not the punch line.

 I have noted that Lindsay Irwin was running 5th in the nominated Title in California. I am certain that it was he and his crew who cleared out on that day in 1988-1989. I had followed him because he had previously been involved in FD's. So had I. I have two FD's and two 18's on the roof of my garage. I remember him being involved in a major car acciddent during a title a while back, from which he has come back from also with his Sail Making Business

It is getting late, I’m tired. I don’t like seeing you blokes bringing to SUG, stuff that should have been sorted out in the Committee Room. I thinks that if I had to come to some of your outfits meetings, I would also to had to have hired an ambulalance. Perhaps I should have done that at my Club.

Very Tired Regards,

                               Mark Jones.
-- ______________________________________________________
Simon Smith
simon@smith.net
BT Day 01252 860264 Eve 01252 878032 Mob 07712 659276


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