[sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

this system like chips used at chipstead caues problerms.

You tell a kid who could not race 2 weekends but raced all others that he can not beat another kid. cause the races he couldn’t race had loads of competitors. thats what high points scoring does.

At chipstead under low points scoring we had closes fleets causes people can predict what result they need to beat aniother boat and didn’t have to rely on numbers turning up.

How do you define skill by the number of boat sailing or by wether you do well in a race of varying conditions.

high points scoring penalizes tsmall fleets and rewards large.

At most clubs fleets vary in size over a season. On some races at chipstead the results of the winner to a series was decided in the summer, but if it was scored by low points scoring it would have come down to the last race making an exciting end to a season.

high points scoring is only ok if fleets stay roughly the same size all season but theuy don’t.

low points scoriong enourages people to sail that a fact and even stated by the top rya instructors.

scince high points scoring was introduced at chipstead memebrs sailing has dropped, which proves the failure of the system to get people to sail which is what we want.

Low point works only if the number of competitors is the same throughout the series.

High point can give more points for large fleets, but also same points, same gaps between competitors or decreasing gaps…

Example, 1+9*(s-p+1)/s should give always 10 points to the 1st, 1 point to the last, 0 for DNC, then choose fixed value 0, .5 or 1.0 dor DNF…

Just be aware that having same points for the 1st, same points for the last and same gaps is just impossible…

Decreasing gaps are also possible in low point, like Bonus systems p-.01*max(0,(11-p))^2, (0.0, 1.19, 2.36, 3.51, 4.64, 5.75, 6.84, 7.91, 8.96, 9.99, 11.0, 12.0…)

Think about what the fleet wants, write specifications, then find the “right” customised formula…

Phil

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----- Original Message -----

From:
DAVID CHESWORTH

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 5:16 PM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

this system like chips used at chipstead caues problerms.

You tell a kid who could not race 2 weekends but raced all others that he can not beat another kid. cause the races he couldn’t race had loads of competitors. thats what high points scoring does.

At chipstead under low points scoring we had closes fleets causes people can predict what result they need to beat aniother boat and didn’t have to rely on numbers turning up.

How do you define skill by the number of boat sailing or by wether you do well in a race of varying conditions.

high points scoring penalizes tsmall fleets and rewards large.

At most clubs fleets vary in size over a season. On some races at chipstead the results of the winner to a series was decided in the summer, but if it was scored by low points scoring it would have come down to the last race making an exciting end to a season.

high points scoring is only ok if fleets stay roughly the same size all season but theuy don’t.

low points scoriong enourages people to sail that a fact and even stated by the top rya instructors.

scince high points scoring was introduced at chipstead memebrs sailing has dropped, which proves the failure of the system to get people to sail which is what we want.

what evry fleet is a system that allows a person to know how to beat
another boat and to beable to sail and know that a weekend off sailing
does not wreck there whole series.

Thats why the high points scoring is not endorsed by the world’s top
saliors like Ian walker.

Best way to beat the others:

  • have your boat prepared
  • don’t us sails made 25 years ago
  • learn how to trim rig and sails for performance
  • train, train and train
  • give the helm to Ben Ainsley
  • don’t rely on flaws in the ranking system
    Reminder: the purpose of Sailwave is to provide the bottle where your pour wine. Users (clubs) are making the wine. If the wine is bad quality or there in so wine in the bottle, don’t blame Sailwave, blame the users

Phil

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----- Original Message -----

From:
David

To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 9:16 PM

Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

what evry fleet is a system that allows a person to know how to beat another boat and to beable to sail and know that a weekend off sailing does not wreck there whole series.

Thats why the high points scoring is not endorsed by the world’s top saliors like Ian walker.

Hi David,

As I understand it, the points you have raised are the whole reason
of CHIPS existance. It awards higher points in larger fleets and
lower points in smaller fleets. That much has been very clear from
its inception, and has been explained on a number of occasions within
Chipstead Sailing Club - it is also explained fully in the
documentation freely available on the club's website.

Contrary to your points regarding the systems fallibility when used
in a large fleet - the largest fleet in Chipstead Sailin Club, the
Laser Class (30 qualifiers in the points racing alone in 2008), has
consistantly chosen to retain the CHIPS scoring system as Laser class
members feel it is far superior to regular low point scoring in large
fleet series points production.

As with all available alternative scoring systems, CHIPS will have
fans, and people less enthuusiatic about it - hence why at our
sailing club, members are given the opportunity to vote during the
Class AGM's on such matters - maybe your concerns should be raised
within your class agm where there is a forum to receive it formally?

As the Sailing Secretary for Chipstead Sailing Club, and having been
a Fleet Captain during the use of CHIPS at Chipstead SC, I am fully
aware of its implications on series points. I welcome your input,
but I feel the points you have raised hold no new information. Your
concerns are answered fully on the clubs website in the product
literature, and as such I suggest you discuss the matter at your next
Class AGM if you still feel that strongly about it.

Contrary to your comments regarding membership at our Club - this
actually increased in 2008 - unlike alot of club in the south east -
and we hope that it will continue to do so in 2009. Thanks for
asking!

Andrew Bowes
Laser 182222
Sailing Sec @ Chipstead Sailing Club

--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, DAVID CHESWORTH
<david.chesworth@...> wrote:

this system like chips used at chipstead caues problerms.

You tell a kid who could not race 2 weekends but raced all others

that he can not beat another kid. cause the races he couldn't race
had loads of competitors. thats what high points scoring does.

At chipstead under low points scoring we had closes fleets causes

people can predict what result they need to beat  aniother boat and
didn't have to rely on numbers turning up.

How do you define skill by the number of boat sailing or by wether

you do well in a race of varying conditions.

high points scoring penalizes tsmall fleets and rewards large.

At most clubs fleets vary in size over a season. On some races at

chipstead the results of the winner to a series was decided in the
summer, but if it was scored by low points scoring it would have come
down to the last race making an exciting end to a season.

high points scoring is only ok if fleets stay roughly the same size

all season but theuy don't.

low points scoriong enourages people to sail that a fact and even

stated by the top rya instructors.

scince high points scoring was introduced at chipstead memebrs

sailing has dropped, which proves the failure of the system to get
people to sail which is what we want.

···