[sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

The members only increased due to the fact certain sailing clubs shut their doors to new members.

Your reasoning for chips does not hold up when it comes to small fleets or fleets that don’t get the numbers reghularly.

If a kid goes on hoilday for 2 weekends and then comes back and races and cause loads of boats sailed thoses two weekends and you din’t get the numbers thoughout the rest of the season, that kid could beat you all season but still lose to you due to thoese weekends is that fair.

What chips does is put a handicap on sailing if large fleets sail you get better results but if less sail you don’t.

Is there no skill to sail in all weather conditions? What chips does is reward for large fleets only.

If you bother to turn up and race, isn’t that enouragement enough know that your result means something. I know it does. You could ebnd up with a situtaion under chips that the results to a series are decided on how many turn up and not by sailing.

Your reasoning for chips is that you are rewarded by saiing in larghe fleets. One wendseday evening series it was 1/2 mph winds and loads went out and literally cheated just to better their position. At know other time through out the wendseday evening series did you get thoes types of numbrers sailing. That result had an effect on the results of the series. loads of people who would not normally beat people over a series did just cause of that one result. So your telling me that chips is a fair system, when one race can determin the whole series.

In low points scoring you can ensure a fairer system by the amount of discards used.

take simon gillow for example he tried to work out what he needed to do to improve his results on the last race he could do. He could not find out, as he said their were too many variables, like number sailing who sailing.

Shouldn’t that be skill which helps him improve his results not whether numbers turn up or not.

take this if 10 boats need to race for him to have any chance of improving but only 8 turn up is it his fault. No it just proves that his chances of improving are 0%, does that encourge anyone to sail?

where is the skill in that?

···

From: andrewbowes andrewbowes@yahoo.co.uk
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 17 December, 2008 1:31:46 PM
Subject: [sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

Hi David,

As I understand it, the points you have raised are the whole reason
of CHIPS existance. It awards higher points in larger fleets and
lower points in smaller fleets. That much has been very clear from
its inception, and has been explained on a number of occasions within
Chipstead Sailing Club - it is also explained fully in the
documentation freely available on the club’s website.

Contrary to your points regarding the systems fallibility when used
in a large fleet - the largest fleet in Chipstead Sailin Club, the
Laser Class (30 qualifiers in the points racing alone in 2008), has
consistantly chosen to retain the CHIPS scoring system as Laser class
members feel it is far superior to regular low point scoring in large
fleet series points production.

As with all available alternative scoring systems, CHIPS will have
fans, and people less enthuusiatic about it - hence why at our

sailing club, members are given the opportunity to vote during the
Class AGM’s on such matters - maybe your concerns should be raised
within your class agm where there is a forum to receive it formally?

As the Sailing Secretary for Chipstead Sailing Club, and having been
a Fleet Captain during the use of CHIPS at Chipstead SC, I am fully
aware of its implications on series points. I welcome your input,
but I feel the points you have raised hold no new information. Your
concerns are answered fully on the clubs website in the product
literature, and as such I suggest you discuss the matter at your next
Class AGM if you still feel that strongly about it.

Contrary to your comments regarding membership at our Club - this
actually increased in 2008 - unlike alot of club in the south east -
and we hope that it will continue to do so in 2009. Thanks for
asking!

Andrew Bowes
Laser
182222
Sailing Sec @ Chipstead Sailing Club

— In sailwave@yahoogroup s.com, DAVID CHESWORTH
<david.chesworth@ …> wrote:

this system like chips used at chipstead caues problerms.

You tell a kid who could not race 2 weekends but raced all others
that he can not beat another kid. cause the races he couldn’t race
had loads of competitors. thats what high points scoring does.

At chipstead under low points scoring we had closes fleets causes
people can predict what result they need to beat  aniother boat and
didn’t have to rely on numbers turning up.

How do you define skill by the number of boat sailing or by wether
you do well in a race of varying conditions.

high points scoring
penalizes tsmall fleets and rewards large.

At most clubs fleets vary in size over a season. On some races at
chipstead the results of the winner to a series was decided in the
summer, but if it was scored by low points scoring it would have come
down to the last race making an exciting end to a season.

high points scoring is only ok if fleets stay roughly the same size
all season but theuy don’t.

low points scoriong enourages people to sail that a fact and even
stated by the top rya instructors.

scince high points scoring was introduced at chipstead memebrs
sailing has dropped, which proves the failure of the system to get
people to sail which is what we want.

David,

You’ve obviously got a hang up about
CHIPS. If you don’t like it, move to a club that uses a different system.
Please don’t continue to fill my Sailwave intray with your personal ramblings.

Ian Frogley

-----Original
Message-----
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of
DAVID CHESWORTH

···

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 18 December 2008 07:39
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re:
chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

The members only
increased due to the fact certain sailing clubs shut their doors to new
members.

Your reasoning for chips
does not hold up when it comes to small fleets or fleets that don’t get the
numbers reghularly.

If a kid goes on hoilday
for 2 weekends and then comes back and races and cause loads of boats sailed
thoses two weekends and you din’t get the numbers thoughout the rest of the
season, that kid could beat you all season but still lose to you due to thoese
weekends is that fair.

What chips does is put a
handicap on sailing if large fleets sail you get better results but if less
sail you don’t.

Is there no skill to sail
in all weather conditions? What chips does is reward for large fleets
only.

If you bother to
turn up and race, isn’t that enouragement enough know that your result means
something. I know it does. You could ebnd up with a situtaion under
chips that the results to a series are decided on how many turn up and not by
sailing.

Your reasoning for
chips is that you are rewarded by saiing in larghe fleets. One wendseday
evening series it was 1/2 mph winds and loads went out and literally cheated
just to better their position. At know other time through out the
wendseday evening series did you get thoes types of numbrers sailing.
That result had an effect on the results of the series. loads of people
who would not normally beat people over a series did just cause of that one
result. So your telling me that chips is a fair system, when one race can
determin the whole series.

In low points scoring you
can ensure a fairer system by the amount of discards used.

take simon gillow for
example he tried to work out what he needed to do to improve his results on the
last race he could do. He could not find out, as he said their were
too many variables, like number sailing who sailing.

Shouldn’t that be skill
which helps him improve his results not whether numbers turn up or not.

take this if 10
boats need to race for him to have any chance of improving but only 8 turn
up is it his fault. No it just proves that his chances of improving are
0%, does that encourge anyone to sail?

where is the skill in
that?


From:
andrewbowes andrewbowes@yahoo.co.uk
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 17 December, 2008
1:31:46 PM
Subject: [sailwave] Re: chipestaed
siling clunb chips scoring

Hi David,

As I understand it, the points you have raised are the whole reason

of CHIPS existance. It awards higher points in larger fleets and

lower points in smaller fleets. That much has been very clear from

its inception, and has been explained on a number of occasions within

Chipstead Sailing Club - it is also explained fully in the

documentation freely available on the club’s website.

Contrary to your points regarding the systems fallibility when used

in a large fleet - the largest fleet in Chipstead Sailin Club, the

Laser Class (30 qualifiers in the points racing alone in 2008), has

consistantly chosen to retain the CHIPS scoring system as Laser class

members feel it is far superior to regular low point scoring in large

fleet series points production.

As with all available alternative scoring systems, CHIPS will have

fans, and people less enthuusiatic about it - hence why at our

sailing club, members are given the opportunity to vote during the

Class AGM’s on such matters - maybe your concerns should be raised

within your class agm where there is a forum to receive it formally?

As the Sailing Secretary for Chipstead Sailing Club, and having been

a Fleet Captain during the use of CHIPS at Chipstead SC, I am fully

aware of its implications on series points. I welcome your input,

but I feel the points you have raised hold no new information. Your

concerns are answered fully on the clubs website in the product

literature, and as such I suggest you discuss the matter at your next

Class AGM if you still feel that strongly about it.

Contrary to your comments regarding membership at our Club - this

actually increased in 2008 - unlike alot of club in the south east -

and we hope that it will continue to do so in 2009. Thanks for

asking!

Andrew Bowes

Laser 182222

Sailing Sec @ Chipstead Sailing Club

— In sailwave@yahoogroup
s.com, DAVID CHESWORTH

<david.chesworth@ …> wrote:

this system like chips used at chipstead caues problerms.

You tell a kid who could not race 2 weekends but raced all others

that he can not beat another kid. cause the races he couldn’t race

had loads of competitors. thats what high points scoring does.

At chipstead under low points scoring we had closes fleets causes

people can predict what result they need to beat  aniother boat and

didn’t have to rely on numbers turning up.

How do you define skill by the number of boat sailing or by wether

you do well in a race of varying conditions.

high points scoring penalizes tsmall fleets and rewards large.

At most clubs fleets vary in size over a season. On some races at

chipstead the results of the winner to a series was decided in the

summer, but if it was scored by low points scoring it would have come

down to the last race making an exciting end to a season.

high points scoring is only ok if fleets stay roughly the same size

all season but theuy don’t.

low points scoriong enourages people to sail that a fact and even

stated by the top rya instructors.

scince high points scoring was introduced at chipstead memebrs

sailing has dropped, which proves the failure of the system to get

people to sail which is what we want.

Yes it really, really is time we gave up this endless, BORING rant about scoring systems!

···

At 19:13 18/12/2008, ian frogley wrote:

David,

You’ve obviously got a hang up about CHIPS. If you don’t like it, move to a club that uses a different system. Please don’t continue to fill my Sailwave intray with your personal ramblings.

Ian Frogley

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DAVID CHESWORTH
Sent: 18 December 2008 07:39
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

The members only increased due to the fact certain sailing clubs shut their doors to new members.

Your reasoning for chips does not hold up when it comes to small fleets or fleets that don't get the numbers reghularly.

If a kid goes on hoilday for 2 weekends and then comes back and races and cause loads of boats sailed thoses two weekends and you din't get the numbers thoughout the rest of the season, that kid could beat you all season but still lose to you due to thoese weekends is that fair.

What chips does is put a handicap on sailing if large fleets sail you get better results but if less sail you don't.

Is there no skill to sail in all weather conditions? What chips does is reward for large fleets only.

If you bother to turn up and race, isn't that enouragement enough know that your result means something. I know it does. You could ebnd up with a situtaion under chips that the results to a series are decided on how many turn up and not by sailing.

Your reasoning for chips is that you are rewarded by saiing in larghe fleets. One wendseday evening series it was 1/2 mph winds and loads went out and literally cheated just to better their position. At know other time through out the wendseday evening series did you get thoes types of numbrers sailing. That result had an effect on the results of the series. loads of people who would not normally beat people over a series did just cause of that one result. So your telling me that chips is a fair system, when one race can determin the whole series.

In low points scoring you can ensure a fairer system by the amount of discards used.

take simon gillow for example he tried to work out what he needed to do to improve his results on the last race he could do. He could not find out, as he said their were too many variables, like number sailing who sailing.

Shouldn't that be skill which helps him improve his results not whether numbers turn up or not.

take this if 10 boats need to race for him to have any chance of improving but only 8 turn up is it his fault. No it just proves that his chances of improving are 0%, does that encourge anyone to sail?

where is the skill in that?

From: andrewbowes <andrewbowes@yahoo.co.uk>
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 17 December, 2008 1:31:46 PM
Subject: [sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

Hi David,

As I understand it, the points you have raised are the whole reason
of CHIPS existance. It awards higher points in larger fleets and
lower points in smaller fleets. That much has been very clear from
its inception, and has been explained on a number of occasions within
Chipstead Sailing Club - it is also explained fully in the
documentation freely available on the club's website.

Contrary to your points regarding the systems fallibility when used
in a large fleet - the largest fleet in Chipstead Sailin Club, the
Laser Class (30 qualifiers in the points racing alone in 2008), has
consistantly chosen to retain the CHIPS scoring system as Laser class
members feel it is far superior to regular low point scoring in large
fleet series points production.

As with all available alternative scoring systems, CHIPS will have
fans, and people less enthuusiatic about it - hence why at our
sailing club, members are given the opportunity to vote during the
Class AGM's on such matters - maybe your concerns should be raised
within your class agm where there is a forum to receive it formally?

As the Sailing Secretary for Chipstead Sailing Club, and having been
a Fleet Captain during the use of CHIPS at Chipstead SC, I am fully
aware of its implications on series points. I welcome your input,
but I feel the points you have raised hold no new information. Your
concerns are answered fully on the clubs website in the product
literature, and as such I suggest you discuss the matter at your next
Class AGM if you still feel that strongly about it.

Contrary to your comments regarding membership at our Club - this
actually increased in 2008 - unlike alot of club in the south east -
and we hope that it will continue to do so in 2009. Thanks for
asking!

Andrew Bowes
Laser 182222
Sailing Sec @ Chipstead Sailing Club

--- In <mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com>sailwave@yahoogroup s.com, DAVID CHESWORTH
<david.chesworth@ ...> wrote:
>
> this system like chips used at chipstead caues problerms.
>
> You tell a kid who could not race 2 weekends but raced all others
that he can not beat another kid. cause the races he couldn't race
had loads of competitors. thats what high points scoring does.
>
> At chipstead under low points scoring we had closes fleets causes
people can predict what result they need to beat  aniother boat and
didn't have to rely on numbers turning up.
>
> How do you define skill by the number of boat sailing or by wether
you do well in a race of varying conditions.
>
> high points scoring penalizes tsmall fleets and rewards large.
>
> At most clubs fleets vary in size over a season. On some races at
chipstead the results of the winner to a series was decided in the
summer, but if it was scored by low points scoring it would have come
down to the last race making an exciting end to a season.
>
> high points scoring is only ok if fleets stay roughly the same size
all season but theuy don't.
>
> low points scoriong enourages people to sail that a fact and even
stated by the top rya instructors.
>
> scince high points scoring was introduced at chipstead memebrs
sailing has dropped, which proves the failure of the system to get
people to sail which is what we want.
>

Ok. I've had enough.

This group is for Sailwave users to discuss using Sailwave. Take your beef
somewhere else.

James

···

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of DAVID CHESWORTH
Sent: 18 December 2008 07:39
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

The members only increased due to the fact certain sailing clubs shut their
doors to new members.

Your reasoning for chips does not hold up when it comes to small fleets or
fleets that don't get the numbers reghularly.

If a kid goes on hoilday for 2 weekends and then comes back and races and
cause loads of boats sailed thoses two weekends and you din't get the
numbers thoughout the rest of the season, that kid could beat you all season
but still lose to you due to thoese weekends is that fair.

What chips does is put a handicap on sailing if large fleets sail you get
better results but if less sail you don't.

Is there no skill to sail in all weather conditions? What chips does is
reward for large fleets only.

If you bother to turn up and race, isn't that enouragement enough know that
your result means something. I know it does. You could ebnd up with a
situtaion under chips that the results to a series are decided on how many
turn up and not by sailing.

Your reasoning for chips is that you are rewarded by saiing in larghe
fleets. One wendseday evening series it was 1/2 mph winds and loads went
out and literally cheated just to better their position. At know other time
through out the wendseday evening series did you get thoes types of numbrers
sailing. That result had an effect on the results of the series. loads of
people who would not normally beat people over a series did just cause of
that one result. So your telling me that chips is a fair system, when one
race can determin the whole series.

In low points scoring you can ensure a fairer system by the amount of
discards used.

take simon gillow for example he tried to work out what he needed to do to
improve his results on the last race he could do. He could not find out, as
he said their were too many variables, like number sailing who sailing.

Shouldn't that be skill which helps him improve his results not whether
numbers turn up or not.

take this if 10 boats need to race for him to have any chance of improving
but only 8 turn up is it his fault. No it just proves that his chances of
improving are 0%, does that encourge anyone to sail?

where is the skill in that?
   
________________________________

From: andrewbowes <andrewbowes@yahoo.co.uk>
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 17 December, 2008 1:31:46 PM
Subject: [sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

Hi David,

As I understand it, the points you have raised are the whole reason
of CHIPS existance. It awards higher points in larger fleets and
lower points in smaller fleets. That much has been very clear from
its inception, and has been explained on a number of occasions within
Chipstead Sailing Club - it is also explained fully in the
documentation freely available on the club's website.

Contrary to your points regarding the systems fallibility when used
in a large fleet - the largest fleet in Chipstead Sailin Club, the
Laser Class (30 qualifiers in the points racing alone in 2008), has
consistantly chosen to retain the CHIPS scoring system as Laser class
members feel it is far superior to regular low point scoring in large
fleet series points production.

As with all available alternative scoring systems, CHIPS will have
fans, and people less enthuusiatic about it - hence why at our
sailing club, members are given the opportunity to vote during the
Class AGM's on such matters - maybe your concerns should be raised
within your class agm where there is a forum to receive it formally?

As the Sailing Secretary for Chipstead Sailing Club, and having been
a Fleet Captain during the use of CHIPS at Chipstead SC, I am fully
aware of its implications on series points. I welcome your input,
but I feel the points you have raised hold no new information. Your
concerns are answered fully on the clubs website in the product
literature, and as such I suggest you discuss the matter at your next
Class AGM if you still feel that strongly about it.

Contrary to your comments regarding membership at our Club - this
actually increased in 2008 - unlike alot of club in the south east -
and we hope that it will continue to do so in 2009. Thanks for
asking!

Andrew Bowes
Laser 182222
Sailing Sec @ Chipstead Sailing Club

--- In sailwave@yahoogroup s.com <mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com> , DAVID
CHESWORTH
<david.chesworth@ ...> wrote:

this system like chips used at chipstead caues problerms.

You tell a kid who could not race 2 weekends but raced all others

that he can not beat another kid. cause the races he couldn't race
had loads of competitors. thats what high points scoring does.

At chipstead under low points scoring we had closes fleets causes

people can predict what result they need to beat  aniother boat and
didn't have to rely on numbers turning up.

How do you define skill by the number of boat sailing or by wether

you do well in a race of varying conditions.

high points scoring penalizes tsmall fleets and rewards large.

At most clubs fleets vary in size over a season. On some races at

chipstead the results of the winner to a series was decided in the
summer, but if it was scored by low points scoring it would have come
down to the last race making an exciting end to a season.

high points scoring is only ok if fleets stay roughly the same size

all season but theuy don't.

low points scoriong enourages people to sail that a fact and even

stated by the top rya instructors.

scince high points scoring was introduced at chipstead memebrs

sailing has dropped, which proves the failure of the system to get
people to sail which is what we want.

Can’t we stop this thread? It has NOTHING to do with Sailwave.
Settle this among yourselves in a different forum please.

Will

···

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DAVID CHESWORTH
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 2:39 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

The members only increased due to the fact certain sailing
clubs shut their doors to new members.

Your reasoning for chips does not hold up when it comes to
small fleets or fleets that don’t get the numbers reghularly.

If a kid goes on hoilday for 2 weekends and then comes back
and races and cause loads of boats sailed thoses two weekends and you din’t get
the numbers thoughout the rest of the season, that kid could beat you all
season but still lose to you due to thoese weekends is that fair.

What chips does is put a handicap on sailing if large fleets
sail you get better results but if less sail you don’t.

Is there no skill to sail in all weather conditions?
What chips does is reward for large fleets only.

If you bother to turn up and race, isn’t that
enouragement enough know that your result means something. I know it
does. You could ebnd up with a situtaion under chips that the results to
a series are decided on how many turn up and not by sailing.

Your reasoning for chips is that you are rewarded by
saiing in larghe fleets. One wendseday evening series it was 1/2 mph
winds and loads went out and literally cheated just to better their
position. At know other time through out the wendseday evening series did
you get thoes types of numbrers sailing. That result had an effect on the
results of the series. loads of people who would not normally beat people
over a series did just cause of that one result. So your telling me that
chips is a fair system, when one race can determin the whole series.

In low points scoring you can ensure a fairer system by the
amount of discards used.

take simon gillow for example he tried to work out what he
needed to do to improve his results on the last race he could do. He could
not find out, as he said their were too many variables, like number sailing who
sailing.

Shouldn’t that be skill which helps him improve his
results not whether numbers turn up or not.

take this if 10 boats need to race for him to have any
chance of improving but only 8 turn up is it his fault. No it just proves
that his chances of improving are 0%, does that encourge anyone to sail?

where is the skill in that?


From: andrewbowes andrewbowes@yahoo.co.uk
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 17 December, 2008 1:31:46 PM
Subject: [sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

Hi David,

As I understand it, the points you have raised are the whole reason
of CHIPS existance. It awards higher points in larger fleets and
lower points in smaller fleets. That much has been very clear from
its inception, and has been explained on a number of occasions within
Chipstead Sailing Club - it is also explained fully in the
documentation freely available on the club’s website.

Contrary to your points regarding the systems fallibility when used
in a large fleet - the largest fleet in Chipstead Sailin Club, the
Laser Class (30 qualifiers in the points racing alone in 2008), has
consistantly chosen to retain the CHIPS scoring system as Laser class
members feel it is far superior to regular low point scoring in large
fleet series points production.

As with all available alternative scoring systems, CHIPS will have
fans, and people less enthuusiatic about it - hence why at our
sailing club, members are given the opportunity to vote during the
Class AGM’s on such matters - maybe your concerns should be raised
within your class agm where there is a forum to receive it formally?

As the Sailing Secretary for Chipstead Sailing Club, and having been
a Fleet Captain during the use of CHIPS at Chipstead SC, I am fully
aware of its implications on series points. I welcome your input,
but I feel the points you have raised hold no new information. Your
concerns are answered fully on the clubs website in the product
literature, and as such I suggest you discuss the matter at your next
Class AGM if you still feel that strongly about it.

Contrary to your comments regarding membership at our Club - this
actually increased in 2008 - unlike alot of club in the south east -
and we hope that it will continue to do so in 2009. Thanks for
asking!

Andrew Bowes
Laser 182222
Sailing Sec @ Chipstead Sailing Club

— In sailwave@yahoogroup
s.com, DAVID CHESWORTH
<david.chesworth@ …> wrote:

this system like chips used at chipstead caues problerms.

You tell a kid who could not race 2 weekends but raced all others
that he can not beat another kid. cause the races he couldn’t race
had loads of competitors. thats what high points scoring does.

At chipstead under low points scoring we had closes fleets causes
people can predict what result they need to beat  aniother boat and
didn’t have to rely on numbers turning up.

How do you define skill by the number of boat sailing or by wether
you do well in a race of varying conditions.

high points scoring penalizes tsmall fleets and rewards large.

At most clubs fleets vary in size over a season. On some races at
chipstead the results of the winner to a series was decided in the
summer, but if it was scored by low points scoring it would have come
down to the last race making an exciting end to a season.

high points scoring is only ok if fleets stay roughly the same size
all season but theuy don’t.

low points scoriong enourages people to sail that a fact and even
stated by the top rya instructors.

scince high points scoring was introduced at chipstead memebrs
sailing has dropped, which proves the failure of the system to get
people to sail which is what we want.

I Agree, risk here of an extremely useful forum becoming shelved by readers who don’t have spare time to spend. Peter.

···

Ok. I’ve had enough.

This group is for Sailwave users to discuss using Sailwave. Take your beef
somewhere else.

James

-----Original Message-----
From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sailwave@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of DAVID CHESWORTH
Sent: 18 December 2008 07:39
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SPAM] Re: [sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

The members only increased due to the fact certain sailing clubs shut their
doors to new members.

Your reasoning for chips does not hold up when it comes to small fleets or
fleets that don’t get the numbers reghularly.

If a kid goes on hoilday for 2 weekends and then comes back and races and
cause loads of boats sailed thoses two weekends and you din’t get the
numbers thoughout the rest of the season, that kid could beat you all season
but still lose to you due to thoese weekends is that fair.

What chips does is put a handicap on sailing if large fleets sail you get
better results but if less sail you don’t.

Is there no skill to sail in all weather conditions? What chips does is
reward for large fleets only.

If you bother to turn up and race, isn’t that enouragement enough know that
your result means something. I know it does. You could ebnd up with a
situtaion under chips that the results to a series are decided on how many
turn up and not by sailing.

Your reasoning for chips is that you are rewarded by saiing in larghe
fleets. One wendseday evening series it was 1/2 mph winds and loads went
out and literally cheated just to better their position. At know other time
through out the wendseday evening series did you get thoes types of numbrers
sailing. That result had an effect on the results of the series. loads of
people who would not normally beat people over a series did just cause of
that one result. So your telling me that chips is a fair system, when one
race can determin the whole series.

In low points scoring you can ensure a fairer system by the amount of
discards used.

take simon gillow for example he tried to work out what he needed to do to
improve his results on the last race he could do. He could not find out, as
he said their were too many variables, like number sailing who sailing.

Shouldn’t that be skill which helps him improve his results not whether
numbers turn up or not.

take this if 10 boats need to race for him to have any chance of improving
but only 8 turn up is it his fault. No it just proves that his chances of
improving are 0%, does that encourge anyone to sail?

where is the skill in that?


From: andrewbowes andrewbowes@yahoo.co.uk
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 17 December, 2008 1:31:46 PM
Subject: [sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring

Hi David,

As I understand it, the points you have raised are the whole reason
of CHIPS existance. It awards higher points in larger fleets and
lower points in smaller fleets. That much has been very clear from
its inception, and has been explained on a number of occasions within
Chipstead Sailing Club - it is also explained fully in the
documentation freely available on the club’s website.

Contrary to your points regarding the systems fallibility when used
in a large fleet - the largest fleet in Chipstead Sailin Club, the
Laser Class (30 qualifiers in the points racing alone in 2008), has
consistantly chosen to retain the CHIPS scoring system as Laser class
members feel it is far superior to regular low point scoring in large
fleet series points production.

As with all available alternative scoring systems, CHIPS will have
fans, and people less enthuusiatic about it - hence why at our
sailing club, members are given the opportunity to vote during the
Class AGM’s on such matters - maybe your concerns should be raised
within your class agm where there is a forum to receive it formally?

As the Sailing Secretary for Chipstead Sailing Club, and having been
a Fleet Captain during the use of CHIPS at Chipstead SC, I am fully
aware of its implications on series points. I welcome your input,
but I feel the points you have raised hold no new information. Your
concerns are answered fully on the clubs website in the product
literature, and as such I suggest you discuss the matter at your next
Class AGM if you still feel that strongly about it.

Contrary to your comments regarding membership at our Club - this
actually increased in 2008 - unlike alot of club in the south east -
and we hope that it will continue to do so in 2009. Thanks for
asking!

Andrew Bowes
Laser 182222
Sailing Sec @ Chipstead Sailing Club

— In sailwave@yahoogroup s.com mailto:sailwave%40yahoogroups.com , DAVID
CHESWORTH
<david.chesworth@ …> wrote:

this system like chips used at chipstead caues problerms.

You tell a kid who could not race 2 weekends but raced all others
that he can not beat another kid. cause the races he couldn’t race
had loads of competitors. thats what high points scoring does.

At chipstead under low points scoring we had closes fleets causes
people can predict what result they need to beat  aniother boat and
didn’t have to rely on numbers turning up.

How do you define skill by the number of boat sailing or by wether
you do well in a race of varying conditions.

high points scoring penalizes tsmall fleets and rewards large.

At most clubs fleets vary in size over a season. On some races at
chipstead the results of the winner to a series was decided in the
summer, but if it was scored by low points scoring it would have come
down to the last race making an exciting end to a season.

high points scoring is only ok if fleets stay roughly the same size
all season but theuy don’t.

low points scoriong enourages people to sail that a fact and even
stated by the top rya instructors.

scince high points scoring was introduced at chipstead memebrs
sailing has dropped, which proves the failure of the system to get
people to sail which is what we want.


From: “James Lavery”
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:43:43 -0000
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [SPAM] Re: [sailwave] Re: chipestaed siling clunb chips scoring