Hi All,
Can somebody define a personal handicap, portable across fleets, classes and crew position. I think I am looking for something like a Golf Handicap for Sailing.
The object is to encourage occaisional sailors, to sail more often, in whatever is in the offing.
I have had a go but I just don't have the time to sort it. Could someone take this up. Might be a bit more administration but should lead to assorted experienced sailors showing up on race day to do whatever, in order to add to their Seasons Portable PointScore and if not on the water, watching the Sailing, or helping the admin.
Result, the sometime Sailors start coming out of the WoodWork, they get their own prizes, more boats on the water, more knowledge spread around. Has to be done. The unused knowledge base has to be tapped. Then there is the newcomers.
If this can be sorted and got to work, we will have itinnerant sailors showing up all over the world with a card showing their current pointscore and skill level.
SailWave is sorting the point scoring, how about somebody takes this up to the next level and sorts some Crew Scoring personal PointScore and Handicap stuff. Leave it with you all. The Subject, is Personal Handicaps.
Regards,
MWJ.
wrote:
<…>
Its not quite that simple though. With golf you have a course which
never changes. Somehow someone allocates the par to the course. And
then I play it and take an extra (erm…) 150 shots to complete the
course. If I consistently do that my understanding (I don’t play golf)
is my personal handicap becomes 150. In theory if I move to another
course it should take me an extra 150 shots… not quite sure how they
adjust between courses.
However with golf the only major variables are the player + the
course. Other influencing factors are likely to be weather, equipment
(both choice of club and ball for a specific hole and actual quality of
the kit owned).
Now take sailing. Clearly the sailor is the variable we want to
assess. The course will have a fairly big influence but we change
courses every race. Plus the sailing environment is different in
different places - small puddles, big puddles, sea, hills, tide etc all
affect the course so you could reproduce exactly the same course in 10
different sailing locations and the result would be different depending
on the location. Thats without having to take into account the bigger
variables like wind. And heaven forbid that this personal handicap
should run across classes as we haven’t really got fleet handicaps
tuned to perfection.
Calum
···
markcoorparoo@aol.com
Hi All,
Can somebody define a personal handicap, portable across
fleets, classes and crew position. I think I am looking for something
like a Golf Handicap for Sailing.
If this can be sorted and got to work, we will have itinnerant
sailors showing up all over the world with a card showing their
current pointscore and skill level.
Callum’s points are all very valid but a point that he misses and needs to be streesed is that in Golf the personnel handicap relates to the performance of the player against the course and is not affected by how other people around him play, i.e. they have no bearing on the change of his handicap.
In sailing performance handicapping the changes to a helm/boat handicap is influenced by those around him. If every one sails badly then his own perforamnce may well appear to be good if everyone sails exceptionally well the same performance will show as poor.
This makes individual helm handicaps almost impossible to create and administrate.
Before you even consider personnel handicapping you first have to ask are you trying to encourage people to improve or not. By offering a handicap because you can not sail well does not neccesarily encourage the helm to improve. The best way to encourage helms to improve is to give training and advice.
In dinghies with fixed PY you could offer novices or helms with little racing experience who are in the process of learning a % change that decreases with time. i.e. start at 10%, if you are feeling very kind, and decrease by 1% every 3 races. But look out for flack if he wins the series.
In handicap fleets it is more complex still and you may need to consider the change in boat performance after every 4 races (if you keep to the RYA PY formulae) being changed after a larger number of races and the change reduced by 50% of the PI to encourage the learner.
In cruisers where there are so many more variables it is even more difficult and what ever you do is wrong.
That’s why a measurement handicap is far more sensible in cruisers but of course you need a measurement system that works.
PaulW.
···
----- Original Message -----
From:
Calum Polwart
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [sailwave] Re: Fleet Handicapping
markcoorparoo@aol.com wrote:
Hi All,
Can somebody define a personal handicap, portable across fleets, classes and crew position. I think I am looking for something like a Golf Handicap for Sailing.
<…>
If this can be sorted and got to work, we will have itinnerant sailors showing up all over the world with a card showing their current pointscore and skill level.
Its not quite that simple though. With golf you have a course which never changes. Somehow someone allocates the par to the course. And then I play it and take an extra (erm…) 150 shots to complete the course. If I consistently do that my understanding (I don’t play golf) is my personal handicap becomes 150. In theory if I move to another course it should take me an extra 150 shots… not quite sure how they adjust between courses.
However with golf the only major variables are the player + the course. Other influencing factors are likely to be weather, equipment (both choice of club and ball for a specific hole and actual quality of the kit owned).
Now take sailing. Clearly the sailor is the variable we want to assess. The course will have a fairly big influence but we change courses every race. Plus the sailing environment is different in different places - small puddles, big puddles, sea, hills, tide etc all affect the course so you could reproduce exactly the same course in 10 different sailing locations and the result would be different depending on the location. Thats without having to take into account the bigger variables like wind. And heaven forbid that this personal handicap should run across classes as we haven’t really got fleet handicaps tuned to perfection.
Calum