[sailwave] Re: Flights and all that

Martin_Bolgen · 15 August 2005 11:54

Hi, Ian!

Sorry, but I cant speak for the sailors... But, I can speak on a generally basis and from my experience. I also have 2 kids racing...

Fligts is more fair to the sailors, especially when you have large fleets. If you have, say 100 Optimists, you will have a starting line with proximately the same lenght as the first leg. That can't be fair. You'll often see the black flag... And also, it's just a lottery who's scoring BFD. Often only below 1/3 of those who actually was over the line.

Flights are easier to handle on the courses, but harder to score.

My opinion is that flights are greate, if you can give a reasonable scoreingsystem.....

I'm not sure about gold/silver fleets, points carried forward (or not) and so on.

regards,

Martin

···

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "ian" <yahoo@iws.uk.com>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 08:57:09 -0000

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<tt>
Hi Martin, 
 
Very interesting! I totally agree about the preparation - its essential. 
 
I know its a bit off topic, but what did you (and competitors) think 
of the flight system itself? I think there are mixed feelings about it 
amongst the gp sailors. 
 
Regards, 
Ian 
 
--- In sailwave@yahoogroups.com, Martin Bølgen <martin@s...> wrote: 

Hi! 
I did the LEaC, in the European Youth Championship for the Europe Class. 
 
I can tell you that SW will not handle your change of App.A8. We had 

the same here..... This is because SW will not see the difference 
between Qualification series, and Final series scores. In the EYC all 
scores should count towards the final score, but ties should be broken 
by only Final series scores. I had to do it "manualy" by changing the 
rank number. 

 
I can say that SW helped me to score. Probably alot better than 

Excel would have done, but it was far from stright through! 

 
There is alot of weaknesses, from setting up the series, the 

sailnumberwizard, rearranging groups, and publishing race flights for 
tomorrw.... 

 
One of my first decisions, was to handle male and females in 

different files. It was a "pain in the ass" to make the same changes 
in printouts and so on, but that decision I do not regret. It helped 
me to KISS, if that make sense... 

 
Ralph says: "after burning some midnight oil" .... I have had some 

much later evenings than this week, regarding scoring. That was before 
SW... 

 
Actually, I burned more "midnight oil" before the event, than during.... 
 
This kind of events, qualifications and finals counting towards the 

whole championship, is the most complicated I've seen. The way 
49er/29er did in Copenhagen this week, is easier: The take the score 
from Qual's, and make them into a non- discardable race in the finals. 
Then you can just set up a new series, and import the standing! 

 
I still think Colin do have a problem: Making one general software 

to score everything. As I see it, it might be possible, but WOW- It 
will be complex and very difficult to handle. 

 
If we could separate into 3, it could be more manageable. Maybe like 

this: 

 
1. Standard fleet racing 
2. Group/Flight racing ( Including App. LE Add.C) 
3. Team racing (App.D) 
 
And maybe also one for Match Racing, wich should be quite easy (?). 
 
All these 3 (4) different scorings could be in one software, but a 

tick off in the startup stating what you wants to do...? 

 
The arguments for saying that I'm wrong, is that SW right now are 

very flexible. And that actually made it possible for me to handle the 
EYC.... 

 
(I did actually not score the whole event, but tested how to do it 

in advance, and then trained the people in charge from monday to 
thursday. They did it themselves from friday to sunday, having me on 
the phone and e-mail...... They did call...). 

 
Hope to find some time later this week, to summarize my experiences 

for the SUG. 

 
My only conclution right now is: PREPARE! That is a keyword for 

making good events, and that also applies for the jury, Race 
management, courses and social activities. Doing a event just based 
upon experience, and preparation while running, does not do it! 

 
SW is a greate tool, also for preparation! 
 
 
Regards, 
Martin 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Ralph Tingle 
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 3:25 PM 
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Flights and all that 
 
 
Hi Ian 
Forgot to reply to your AddC queries. 
 
Some time ago, one of Colin's upgrades established that these 

issues had yet to be resolved. 

Not sure if they have been dealt with so will need to wait until 

Colin gets back from holiday 

 
PS 
Martin actually used SW for his Qual & Finals event. 
There are some bugs which required 'manual intervention' but apart 

from this, the overall package 

worked fine (after burning some midnight oil in Derbyshire & Norway!!) 
 
Regards 
Ralph 
 
 
 
-----Original Message----- 
From: ian [mailto:yahoo@i…] 
Sent: 14 August 2005 14:06 
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: [sailwave] Flights and all that 
 
 
Hi all, 
 
I've just finished doing the results for the GP14 Nationals in Poole, 
using App LE Addendum C, for which I used Excel. I was hoping to use 
sw but I thought it would be cutting it a bit fine to go with the 
development version. Anyhow, after the fact I am entering the results 
into sw to see if I get the same outcome :) 
 
On that score, I have a question on the interpretation of the very 
last paragraph in Addendum C, namely: 
 
"For boats with scores from final-series races, ties in the regatta 
score are broken by final series scores with no race score excluded. 
This changes rule A8." 
 
Could you tell me what, if anything sw does if this optional rule is 
in force? I haven't found anywhere in V1.82 to select this in a 
scoring system. 
 
I thought it meant that A8.1 was modified to include only final series 
scores inclusive of discards, but an alternative view is that the 
_total_ final series score (including discards) is used to resolve 
ties. 
 
Also, the optional clause in the previous App C para, ie [However, no 
more than one score may be excluded from the final series and only 
when two or more final-series races have been completed.] - can sw 
handle that? 
 
And finally! What is the best way to import my existing results into 
sw? 
 
Regards 
Ian 
 
 
 
 
 
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