[sailwave] Re: Qualification - Pop-up

Imported from Yahoo
1

Just keep moving the mouse on and off the box until you get read the whole text ... easier than messing about with timedlay (opinion)!

···

From: "Jeroen Tirion" <jeroen.tirion@rse.nu>
Reply-To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Re: Qualification - Pop-up
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 11:11:15 -0000

> The popup delay etc is controlled by windows but I've never been
able to
> find the setting - perhaps somebody else knows.
>
From Microsoft's knowledge base:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-
us/shellcc/platform/commctls/tooltip/messages/ttm_setdelaytime.asp

"The default delay times are based on the double-click time. For the
default double-click time of 500 ms, the initial, autopop, and reshow
delay times are 500ms, 5000ms, and 100ms respectively."

You can change these defaults by sending a control a TTM_SETDELAYTIME
message specifying the new delay times.
This is done per control. Controls having an extremely long or
complex text in their tooltip could be set to an extremely long
autopop time at runtime. This does not interfere with the further
workings of the program, moving the mouse away from this control will
make the tooltip dissapear immediately.

Hope this helps,

Jeroen J.A. Tirion
Regatta Service Europe

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

2

I'm trying to find background references on high point scoring systems. US
Sailing offers insight into high point percentage, and Cox-Sprague, but
nowhere can I find anything on Rinderle B or Austrian high point scoring.
Can anyone steer me toward (hopefully online) background reference material
on either of these? TIA,
-Ian Duff.

3

Hi Ian,

Here's a link:-

http://gmora.org/rinderle_b.asp

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Duff [mailto:iduff@rcn.com]
Sent: 07 October 2003 23:35
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

I'm trying to find background references on high point scoring systems. US
Sailing offers insight into high point percentage, and Cox-Sprague, but
nowhere can I find anything on Rinderle B or Austrian high point scoring.
Can anyone steer me toward (hopefully online) background
reference material
on either of these? TIA,
-Ian Duff.

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4

Thanks, I had already found that one.

I am looking for more info on its roots, who developed it, why, when, where,
etc. Same for the Austrian system. For example, what does Rinderle _A_ look
like, what would 15th place in a 28 boat fleet win for points, who or what
is "Rinderle", etc.

There is some info of this type in the Cox-Sprague system in the US Sailing
Race Management Handbook http://tinyurl.com/q5ns , Chapter 14, pages 272 and
273. Similar depth of info on Rinderle B and Austrian would do a bit to
satisfy my curiosity <g>.

-Ian Duff.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 08 October, 2003 4:38 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Hi Ian,

Here's a link:-

http://gmora.org/rinderle_b.asp

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Duff [mailto:iduff@rcn.com]
Sent: 07 October 2003 23:35
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

I'm trying to find background references on high point scoring
systems. US Sailing offers insight into high point percentage, and
Cox-Sprague, but nowhere can I find anything on Rinderle B or Austrian
high point scoring. Can anyone steer me toward (hopefully online)
background reference material on either of these? TIA,
-Ian Duff.

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5

Hi Ian,

I would like that background info too. At this time Rinderle is implemented
using a table so I can't generalise to 28th (for example) place. Austrian
is implemented using the equations for it so that one's OK for any place. I
suspect they can all be represneted by the same set of equations with a
little fiddling...

Regards,
Colin

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Duff [mailto:iduff@rcn.com]
Sent: 08 October 2003 13:39
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Thanks, I had already found that one.

I am looking for more info on its roots, who developed it, why,
when, where,
etc. Same for the Austrian system. For example, what does
Rinderle _A_ look
like, what would 15th place in a 28 boat fleet win for points, who or what
is "Rinderle", etc.

There is some info of this type in the Cox-Sprague system in the
US Sailing
Race Management Handbook http://tinyurl.com/q5ns , Chapter 14,
pages 272 and
273. Similar depth of info on Rinderle B and Austrian would do a bit to
satisfy my curiosity <g>.

-Ian Duff.
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 08 October, 2003 4:38 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Hi Ian,

Here's a link:-

http://gmora.org/rinderle_b.asp

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Duff [mailto:iduff@rcn.com]
> Sent: 07 October 2003 23:35
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?
>
>
> I'm trying to find background references on high point scoring
> systems. US Sailing offers insight into high point percentage, and
> Cox-Sprague, but nowhere can I find anything on Rinderle B or Austrian
> high point scoring. Can anyone steer me toward (hopefully online)
> background reference material on either of these? TIA,
> -Ian Duff.
>
>
>
>
> -!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/
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6

Actually, does anybody out there have the cox-sprague exuations - all I can
find are tables... CJ Amazon doesn't have the Gregg Bemis book that thye
are described in (Yacht Race Scoring).

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Duff [mailto:iduff@rcn.com]
Sent: 08 October 2003 13:39
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Thanks, I had already found that one.

I am looking for more info on its roots, who developed it, why,
when, where,
etc. Same for the Austrian system. For example, what does
Rinderle _A_ look
like, what would 15th place in a 28 boat fleet win for points, who or what
is "Rinderle", etc.

There is some info of this type in the Cox-Sprague system in the
US Sailing
Race Management Handbook http://tinyurl.com/q5ns , Chapter 14,
pages 272 and
273. Similar depth of info on Rinderle B and Austrian would do a bit to
satisfy my curiosity <g>.

-Ian Duff.
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 08 October, 2003 4:38 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Hi Ian,

Here's a link:-

http://gmora.org/rinderle_b.asp

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Duff [mailto:iduff@rcn.com]
> Sent: 07 October 2003 23:35
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?
>
>
> I'm trying to find background references on high point scoring
> systems. US Sailing offers insight into high point percentage, and
> Cox-Sprague, but nowhere can I find anything on Rinderle B or Austrian
> high point scoring. Can anyone steer me toward (hopefully online)
> background reference material on either of these? TIA,
> -Ian Duff.
>
>
>
>
> -!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/
> -!- Sick of Spam? Get Spam Pal <free!> -!- http://www.spampal.org/
> http://www.sailwave.com/
>
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>
>
>
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>
>
>
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7

Not sure if these are the Real Deal, since it indicates they are "modified",
but try http://tinyurl.com/q5op.
-Ian Duff.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 08 October, 2003 9:03 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Actually, does anybody out there have the cox-sprague exuations - all I can
find are tables... CJ Amazon doesn't have the Gregg Bemis book that thye
are described in (Yacht Race Scoring).

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Duff [mailto:iduff@rcn.com]
Sent: 08 October 2003 13:39
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Thanks, I had already found that one.

I am looking for more info on its roots, who developed it, why, when,
where, etc. Same for the Austrian system. For example, what does
Rinderle _A_ look
like, what would 15th place in a 28 boat fleet win for points, who or what
is "Rinderle", etc.

There is some info of this type in the Cox-Sprague system in the US
Sailing Race Management Handbook http://tinyurl.com/q5ns , Chapter 14,
pages 272 and
273. Similar depth of info on Rinderle B and Austrian would do a bit to
satisfy my curiosity <g>.

-Ian Duff.
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 08 October, 2003 4:38 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Hi Ian,

Here's a link:-

http://gmora.org/rinderle_b.asp

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Duff [mailto:iduff@rcn.com]
> Sent: 07 October 2003 23:35
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?
>
>
> I'm trying to find background references on high point scoring
> systems. US Sailing offers insight into high point percentage, and
> Cox-Sprague, but nowhere can I find anything on Rinderle B or
> Austrian high point scoring. Can anyone steer me toward (hopefully
> online) background reference material on either of these? TIA, -Ian
> Duff.
>
>
>
>
> -!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/
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> http://www.sailwave.com/
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>
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>
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8

Hi Ian,

Thanks, I think that's been simplified a bit (for each place). The original
equations will be logarithmic and totally generic, like the Austrian system
I would guess...

Colin

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Duff [mailto:iduff@rcn.com]
Sent: 08 October 2003 14:37
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Not sure if these are the Real Deal, since it indicates they are
"modified",
but try http://tinyurl.com/q5op.
-Ian Duff.
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 08 October, 2003 9:03 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Actually, does anybody out there have the cox-sprague exuations -
all I can
find are tables... CJ Amazon doesn't have the Gregg Bemis book that thye
are described in (Yacht Race Scoring).

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Duff [mailto:iduff@rcn.com]
> Sent: 08 October 2003 13:39
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?
>
>
> Thanks, I had already found that one.
>
> I am looking for more info on its roots, who developed it, why, when,
> where, etc. Same for the Austrian system. For example, what does
> Rinderle _A_ look
> like, what would 15th place in a 28 boat fleet win for points,
who or what
> is "Rinderle", etc.
>
> There is some info of this type in the Cox-Sprague system in the US
> Sailing Race Management Handbook http://tinyurl.com/q5ns , Chapter 14,
> pages 272 and
> 273. Similar depth of info on Rinderle B and Austrian would do a bit to
> satisfy my curiosity <g>.
>
> -Ian Duff.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, 08 October, 2003 4:38 AM
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?
>
>
> Hi Ian,
>
> Here's a link:-
>
> http://gmora.org/rinderle_b.asp
>
> Regards,
> Colin J
> www.sailwave.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ian Duff [mailto:iduff@rcn.com]
> > Sent: 07 October 2003 23:35
> > To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?
> >
> >
> > I'm trying to find background references on high point scoring
> > systems. US Sailing offers insight into high point percentage, and
> > Cox-Sprague, but nowhere can I find anything on Rinderle B or
> > Austrian high point scoring. Can anyone steer me toward (hopefully
> > online) background reference material on either of these? TIA, -Ian
> > Duff.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -!- Tired of Hotmail? Try Fastmail -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/
> > -!- Sick of Spam? Get Spam Pal <free!> -!- http://www.spampal.org/
> > http://www.sailwave.com/
> >
> > Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
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> > an email to: sailwave-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
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> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
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9

Have you looked at this link?

http://cerebus.winsite.com/archives/1999/Sep-Dec/msg00675.html

···

-------Original Message-------

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, October 11, 2003 11:05:31 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Actually, does anybody out there have the cox-sprague exuations - all I can
find are tables... CJ Amazon doesn't have the Gregg Bemis book that thye
are described in (Yacht Race Scoring).

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Duff [mailto:iduff@rcn.com]
Sent: 08 October 2003 13:39
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Thanks, I had already found that one.

I am looking for more info on its roots, who developed it, why,
when, where,
etc. Same for the Austrian system. For example, what does
Rinderle _A_ look
like, what would 15th place in a 28 boat fleet win for points, who or what
is "Rinderle", etc.

There is some info of this type in the Cox-Sprague system in the
US Sailing
Race Management Handbook http://tinyurl.com/q5ns , Chapter 14,
pages 272 and
273. Similar depth of info on Rinderle B and Austrian would do a bit to
satisfy my curiosity <g>.

-Ian Duff.
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 08 October, 2003 4:38 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Hi Ian,

Here's a link:-

http://gmora.org/rinderle_b.asp

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Duff [mailto:iduff@rcn.com]
> Sent: 07 October 2003 23:35
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?
>
>
> I'm trying to find background references on high point scoring
> systems. US Sailing offers insight into high point percentage, and
> Cox-Sprague, but nowhere can I find anything on Rinderle B or Austrian
> high point scoring. Can anyone steer me toward (hopefully online)
> background reference material on either of these? TIA,
> -Ian Duff.
>
>
>
>
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10

Yep, but thanks for the effort to find it and post it. It looked Real Good,
until I noticed one word..."modified"...

I'm looking for whatever I can find on it (as well as on the Austrian high
point system), such as:
1) Who or what is Rinderle?
2) What's the difference between Rinderle A and B?
3) What's the formula for Rinderle B?
4) Any other background information on Rinderle B, similar to what's in the
US Sailing Race Management Handbook in chapter 14 on Cox-Sprague, or even
better, what I suppose is in Gregg Bemis' book, "Yacht Race Scoring"?

Curious minds just want to know...

-Ian Duff.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 October, 2003 1:25 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Have you looked at this link?

http://cerebus.winsite.com/archives/1999/Sep-Dec/msg00675.html

-------Original Message-------

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, October 11, 2003 11:05:31 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Actually, does anybody out there have the cox-sprague exuations - all I can
find are tables... CJ Amazon doesn't have the Gregg Bemis book that thye are
described in (Yacht Race Scoring).

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Duff [mailto:iduff@rcn.com]
Sent: 08 October 2003 13:39
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Thanks, I had already found that one.

I am looking for more info on its roots, who developed it, why, when,
where, etc. Same for the Austrian system. For example, what does
Rinderle _A_ look
like, what would 15th place in a 28 boat fleet win for points, who or what
is "Rinderle", etc.

There is some info of this type in the Cox-Sprague system in the US
Sailing Race Management Handbook http://tinyurl.com/q5ns , Chapter 14,
pages 272 and
273. Similar depth of info on Rinderle B and Austrian would do a bit to
satisfy my curiosity <g>.

-Ian Duff.
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 08 October, 2003 4:38 AM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Hi Ian,

Here's a link:-

http://gmora.org/rinderle_b.asp

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Duff [mailto:iduff@rcn.com]
> Sent: 07 October 2003 23:35
> To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?
>
>
> I'm trying to find background references on high point scoring
> systems. US Sailing offers insight into high point percentage, and
> Cox-Sprague, but nowhere can I find anything on Rinderle B or
> Austrian high point scoring. Can anyone steer me toward (hopefully
> online) background reference material on either of these? TIA, -Ian
> Duff.
>
>
>
>
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11

Hi Ian,

4) Any other background information on Rinderle B, similar to
what's in the
US Sailing Race Management Handbook in chapter 14 on Cox-Sprague, or even
better, what I suppose is in Gregg Bemis' book, "Yacht Race Scoring"?

Yes, Chapter 14 is good but it still doesn't provide the equations. The
link to the original stuff in Mark's post (thanks Mark) doesn't exist
anymore unfortunately...

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

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12

Colin found the following, hope it is of use....

Rinderle B Point Scoring
The "Rinderle B" scoring system was devised in the early 80s by Jim Rinderle
of Marblehead to make a more equitable way of scoring a series of races that
varied considerably in fleet size. The goals of the system were to:
Preserve a bonus for winning
Have a scoring system that reflects the fact that it is harder to be first
among 8 than to be first among 4.
Have a scoring system that reflects the fact that it is more difficult for
an average racer to achieve a midfleet finish in a small fleet because small
fleets usually include a large fraction of the best sailors (e.g. bad
weather results in a small fleet because the weaker sailors stay home)
Create a scoring system that creates an incentive to race
The existing scoring schemes at that time did not have all of these
characteristics. Rinderle developed a series of candidate scoring tables,
dubbed "Rinderle A", "Rinderle B", "Rinderle C" etc. The consensus of a
group of race organizers was that "Rinderle B" seemed to best balance these
somewhat competing goals.
Here is the detailed formula:
Points= 100*(1-exp(-(s+4.6)/5.4))*(s-p)/(s-1) + 10.5
where s is the number of starters and p is the place.
http://www.nemasail.org/pdf/Fall2000.pdf

···

-------Original Message-------

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, October 18, 2003 04:41:11 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Hi Ian,

4) Any other background information on Rinderle B, similar to
what's in the
US Sailing Race Management Handbook in chapter 14 on Cox-Sprague, or even
better, what I suppose is in Gregg Bemis' book, "Yacht Race Scoring"?

Yes, Chapter 14 is good but it still doesn't provide the equations. The
link to the original stuff in Mark's post (thanks Mark) doesn't exist
anymore unfortunately...

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

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13

Awesome! Thanks! This is EXACTLY what I was looking for. Formula, and
origin. Anyone have similar data for the Austrian high point system?
-Ian Duff.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Townsend [mailto:s_mark_townsend@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, 18 October, 2003 8:24 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Colin found the following, hope it is of use....

Rinderle B Point Scoring
The "Rinderle B" scoring system was devised in the early 80s by Jim Rinderle
of Marblehead to make a more equitable way of scoring a series of races that
varied considerably in fleet size. The goals of the system were to:
Preserve a bonus for winning
Have a scoring system that reflects the fact that it is harder to be first
among 8 than to be first among 4.
Have a scoring system that reflects the fact that it is more difficult for
an average racer to achieve a midfleet finish in a small fleet because small
fleets usually include a large fraction of the best sailors (e.g. bad
weather results in a small fleet because the weaker sailors stay home)
Create a scoring system that creates an incentive to race
The existing scoring schemes at that time did not have all of these
characteristics. Rinderle developed a series of candidate scoring tables,
dubbed "Rinderle A", "Rinderle B", "Rinderle C" etc. The consensus of a
group of race organizers was that "Rinderle B" seemed to best balance these
somewhat competing goals.
Here is the detailed formula:
Points= 100*(1-exp(-(s+4.6)/5.4))*(s-p)/(s-1) + 10.5
where s is the number of starters and p is the place.
http://www.nemasail.org/pdf/Fall2000.pdf

-------Original Message-------

From: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, October 18, 2003 04:41:11 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] Rinderle B references?

Hi Ian,

4) Any other background information on Rinderle B, similar to
what's in the
US Sailing Race Management Handbook in chapter 14 on Cox-Sprague, or even
better, what I suppose is in Gregg Bemis' book, "Yacht Race Scoring"?

Yes, Chapter 14 is good but it still doesn't provide the equations. The
link to the original stuff in Mark's post (thanks Mark) doesn't exist
anymore unfortunately...

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

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14

hi mark,

Colin found the following, hope it is of use....
Rinderle B Point Scoring...

Awesome, thanks. I'll ask the authors if I can include it in the Sailwave
help.

Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com

···

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