[sailwave] rrs - finishing query

My understanding:

Finishing only requires the bow of the boat. After that you have to clear the line - forwards or backwards. BUT if you hit a mark you need to re-finish again.

Starting: You must fully cross the line in the correct direction (port end of the line must be left to port - starboard end must be left to starboard).

Chris

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 02 May 2003 14:47
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] rrs - finishing query

` 'grateful for some guidance about this…

We were arguing in the pub last Friday about finishing; specifically the bow
of a boat (or her spinny pole) crosses the line in very light winds (in the
direction from the last mark was required etc) but then drifts back without
the stern going through the line. Somebody claimed that she still has to
cross the line in full; I didn’t see why? Does she?

Similarly, in light winds again, a boat’s bow crosses and then she drifts
back and hits the finishing mark. Does that matter? I didn’t see why it
should since she’s already finished by the definition.

And just our of interest what about starting like that - light winds -
boat’s bow crosses the start line - but then drifts back - eventually sails
off without actually going through the line. Has she started?

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com


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It is not the bow but any part of the boat in its correct position - so it could be the front of a fully set spinnaker, for instance. Or a bowsprit.

Of cours, typically it is the bow.

Regards,

Cliff

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Jordan, Chris [mailto:Chris.Jordan@Logicacmg.com]
Sent: 02 May 2003 14:56
To: ‘sailwave@yahoogroups.com’
Subject: RE: [sailwave] rrs - finishing query

My understanding:

Finishing only requires the bow of the boat. After that you have to clear the line - forwards or backwards. BUT if you hit a mark you need to re-finish again.

Starting: You must fully cross the line in the correct direction (port end of the line must be left to port - starboard end must be left to starboard).

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 02 May 2003 14:47
To:
sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] rrs - finishing query

` 'grateful for some guidance about this…

We were arguing in the pub last Friday about finishing; specifically the bow
of a boat (or her spinny pole) crosses the line in very light winds (in the
direction from the last mark was required etc) but then drifts back without
the stern going through the line.  Somebody claimed that she still has to
cross the line in full; I didn't see why?  Does she?

Similarly, in light winds again, a boat's bow crosses and then she drifts
back and hits the finishing mark.  Does that matter? I didn't see why it
should since she's already finished by the definition.

And just our of interest what about starting like that - light winds -
boat's bow crosses the start line - but then drifts back - eventually sails
off without actually going through the line.  Has she started?

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com


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Interesting subjects all,

I was very confused over all these and more so invested in Eric Twiname’s book " The racing rules", which is great for me cos it got pictures :0

Anyway da book sez;

Finishing

A boat has finished if any part of her hull, crew or equipment in its normal position, crosses the finish line in the direction of the course from the last mark, either for the first time or, if she is taking a penalty (for hitting a finishing mark or breaking a ' when boats meet rule, or after correcting an error made at the finishing line). 

A boat which has finished is still racing until she has cleared the finish line, so a boat which breaks a rule before she has cleared the line, but after she has finished, must take her penalty for the infringement and then finish again.

So if your finishing on a run or a three sail reach the spinnaker is likely to be the first part over the line, however it the spinnaker is not ‘set’ i.e…e. flapping or an aussie drop it does not count.

If you hit the finishing mark or infringe a “when boats meet rule”, the boat must gain room and do her turns than return wholly to the course side and finish correctly.

To answer Colin’s original question yes the boat has finished and if she then drifts back from the line she is classed as ‘clearing the line’ and so can go and get a cup of coffee. If however by drifting back she infringes a rule such as hitting the mark or breaking a “when boats meet” rule she must exonerate herself and refinish.

The interesting thing is the “any part of the hull, crew or equipment” part and the classification of clearing the line, the boat does not have to pass over the line in her entirety, just a small part, then clear the line in any direction with out infringing another rule and your done.

Starting

A boat starts when any part of her hull, crew or equipment first crosses the start line after the starting signal.

So in answer to your question yes you have started, however if you sail off without crossing the start line an follow the defined course, you may be penalised.

Hope that helps over the pints tonight and have a good weekend sailing

Phil Watkins

Draycote Water SC

Fireball 14705

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Cliff Buffham [mailto:cliff_buffham@ntlworld.com]
Sent: 02 May 2003 15:12
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] rrs - finishing query

It is not the bow but any part of the boat in its correct position - so it could be the front of a fully set spinnaker, for instance. Or a bowsprit.

Of cours, typically it is the bow.

Regards,

Cliff

-----Original Message-----
From: Jordan, Chris [mailto:Chris.Jordan@Logicacmg.com]
Sent: 02 May 2003 14:56
To: ‘sailwave@yahoogroups.com’
Subject: RE: [sailwave] rrs - finishing query

My understanding:
Finishing only requires the bow of the boat. After that you have to clear the line - forwards or backwards. BUT if you hit a mark you need to re-finish again.
Starting: You must fully cross the line in the correct direction (port end of the line must be left to port - starboard end must be left to starboard).

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 02 May 2003 14:47
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sailwave] rrs - finishing query

` 'grateful for some guidance about this…

  We were arguing in the pub last Friday about finishing; specifically the bow
  of a boat (or her spinny pole) crosses the line in very light winds (in the
  direction from the last mark was required etc) but then drifts back without
  the stern going through the line.  Somebody claimed that she still has to
  cross the line in full; I didn't see why?  Does she?

  Similarly, in light winds again, a boat's bow crosses and then she drifts
  back and hits the finishing mark.  Does that matter? I didn't see why it
  should since she's already finished by the definition.

  And just our of interest what about starting like that - light winds -
  boat's bow crosses the start line - but then drifts back - eventually sails
  off without actually going through the line.  Has she started?

Regards,
Colin J
www.sailwave.com


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Phil,

Hope that helps over the pints
tonight and have a good weekend
sailing

Am I that transparent... ?

:slight_smile:

Regards,
Colin

···

---
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Colin,

Hey has the day got a 'Y' in it :slight_smile:

Now I am off for a LARGE Rum......It's the WEEKEND Woo! Hoo!

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 02 May 2003 16:42
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] rrs - finishing query

Phil,

Hope that helps over the pints
tonight and have a good weekend
sailing

Am I that transparent... ?

:slight_smile:

Regards,
Colin

---
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Hi all

As you all seem to be reading the sailing bible(sorry rule book!) I thought
I might try and get your views on a situation which happened at West Kirby
recently which has had everyone in the bar talking about, each person coming
up with their own answers.

The situation is this, while approaching a finish line boat A and boat B are
very close together, boat A had led the race all the way round and on the
final leg was overtaken by boat B, as they crossed the finished line boat A
tacked onto boat B causing a collision and pushing boat B onto the finish
mark. Lots of shouting, boat A did turns for not giving boat B room to
manoeuvre and boat A did turns for hitting the finish mark, in the mean time
boat C having been a couple of boat lengths behind finished before the other
2 boats had completed their penalty turns.

Boat B did not think it should have done turns and believed that it should
have won the race and was unfairly disadvantaged by boat A haphazard tack.
Boat C agreed.

When the race results were published later in the evening the race officer
had published boats finishing 1st and 3rd, 2nd and 4th, 6th in a completely
different fleet. The 3 boats who were at the front on the race therefore
adjusted the results and spoke to the race officer who disagreed with their
version of the results.

The club sailing secretary also didn't agree with altering the results after
the race and therefore put in a request for redress to let the protest
committee sort it all out.

The protest was heard last Thursday, let me know what you all think of this
situation and I'll let you know what happened at the protest.

Paul Jenkins

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Watkins [mailto:phil.watkins@ntlworld.com]
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 5:45 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] rrs - finishing query

Colin,

Hey has the day got a 'Y' in it :slight_smile:

Now I am off for a LARGE Rum......It's the WEEKEND Woo! Hoo!

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 02 May 2003 16:42
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] rrs - finishing query

Phil,

Hope that helps over the pints
tonight and have a good weekend
sailing

Am I that transparent... ?

:slight_smile:

Regards,
Colin

---
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It is my belief that boat B should not have done turns as she was forced
into the mark, but having done so, she finished third. However this incident
raises questions in my mind about the race committee, I would assume that
either prior to or at the time of hitting the mark, some portion of boat was
across the line. The RC should have scored boat B as finished at that time.
If, on the other hand, no part of boat B had crossed the finish line, if I
were boat B I would have crossed anyway. If the RC failed to signal when I
crossed I would take that as an indication that they felt I had fouled the
mark and not cleared myself, then I would take the turns and re-cross.

FWIW

···

-----Original Message-----
From: WKSC Web [mailto:website@wksc.org.uk]
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 1:09 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] rrs - finishing query - lots to think about

Hi all

As you all seem to be reading the sailing bible(sorry rule book!) I thought
I might try and get your views on a situation which happened at West Kirby
recently which has had everyone in the bar talking about, each person coming
up with their own answers.

The situation is this, while approaching a finish line boat A and boat B are
very close together, boat A had led the race all the way round and on the
final leg was overtaken by boat B, as they crossed the finished line boat A
tacked onto boat B causing a collision and pushing boat B onto the finish
mark. Lots of shouting, boat A did turns for not giving boat B room to
manoeuvre and boat A did turns for hitting the finish mark, in the mean time
boat C having been a couple of boat lengths behind finished before the other
2 boats had completed their penalty turns.

Boat B did not think it should have done turns and believed that it should
have won the race and was unfairly disadvantaged by boat A haphazard tack.
Boat C agreed.

When the race results were published later in the evening the race officer
had published boats finishing 1st and 3rd, 2nd and 4th, 6th in a completely
different fleet. The 3 boats who were at the front on the race therefore
adjusted the results and spoke to the race officer who disagreed with their
version of the results.

The club sailing secretary also didn't agree with altering the results after
the race and therefore put in a request for redress to let the protest
committee sort it all out.

The protest was heard last Thursday, let me know what you all think of this
situation and I'll let you know what happened at the protest.

Paul Jenkins

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Watkins [mailto:phil.watkins@ntlworld.com]
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 5:45 PM
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] rrs - finishing query

Colin,

Hey has the day got a 'Y' in it :slight_smile:

Now I am off for a LARGE Rum......It's the WEEKEND Woo! Hoo!

-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 02 May 2003 16:42
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sailwave] rrs - finishing query

Phil,

Hope that helps over the pints
tonight and have a good weekend
sailing

Am I that transparent... ?

:slight_smile:

Regards,
Colin

---
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