Hi Richard,
I’m out in Latvia at present scoring the Techno European Championship. We did have a Skype conference call with the RYA on the 14th July and they did agree to issue an updated spec and example spreadsheets but I haven’t received them as yet.
Regards
Jon
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On 27 July 2015 at 12:50, RichardTruscott@aol.com wrote:
Hi Jon
Do you have any further info when the RYA may be releasing a corrected version of their NHC software? Perhaps for the 2016 season? I’ve just come back from a super regatta at another local club which ran two NHC classes where I am sure that the most deserving boat won in each class.
However, because I’m interested in these things, I noticed that in one NHC 2 race every boat in a 5-boat fleet had their handicap increased for the next race. This might not have been a problem if there hadn’t been a new entrant for the last race who came in on a handicap lower than the those that had previously sailed!
Conversely in one NHC 2 race I noticed that every boat in a 7-boat fleet had its handicap reduced for the next race which of course then disadvantaged new entrants in the next race.
I think it important for the credibility of the RYA NHC scheme that these issues are addressed. Unfortunately, I’m not as yet getting any feedback from the RYA.
Best wishes
Richard
In a message dated 30/06/2015 09:59:37 GMT Summer Time, jon@sailwave.com
writes:
Hi Richard,
With the original NHC2013 the realignment only took place at the end of the series - This caused issues when boats joined part way through the series. To resolve this the NHC2014 specification realigned the boats after each race - But because they didn’t want the ratings of boats that didn’t take part in a race to change, the spec is to only realign boats that take part. - I was unhappy with this from the start and one of the compromises was to have a minimum of 3 boats before the ratings of any boats would change. For the NHC2015 specification they have changed it to all boats in the series get realigned which solves one of the problems, but this does have the effect that boats that don’t race can have their ratings adjusted which can take quite of bit of explanation to the competitors. I have implemented the NHC2015 in external (Template mode) within Beta Sailwave 2.18.5 although to work with multiple NHC fleets in the same file you need to update the Sailwave exe to 2.19.2 or later. There is a known issue with NHC2015 where the ratings adjust the wrong way on some extreme performers for which there is a suggested workaround, but before I implement it in internal mode I want to see a written spec and at least one worked example. Currently the only worked example does not match the specification as far as I can tell.
Jon
Jon Eskdale
03333 443377
07976 709777
Jon Eskdale
03333 443377
07976 709777
On 30 June 2015 at 09:35, RichardTruscott@aol.com wrote:
Morning Jon
Thanks for your speedy response. It's a relief to know that we are setting up the program correctly even though the outputs are curious. Looking at them more closely it would seem that Race 6 in LAH2 and Races 3 and 7 in LAH3 are where the main anomalies appeared and what's more **every boat** , with one exception, in those races had their handicaps reduced for the next race! So not such a problem for the same boats appearing in the next race but a bit harsh on any boats that missed that race. The one exception is 'Headstrong' who came 3rd in LAH2 Race 6 and was the only boat in that 16-boat fleet whose handicap was increased. Furthermore there doesn't seem to be anything special wrt extreme performance in those particular races.
I agree with you that we need the comments of the RYA and hopefully a speedy software update and look forward to their response.
Best wishes
Richard
In a message dated 30/06/2015 01:04:00 GMT Summer Time, jon@sailwave.com writes:
Hi Richard,
I have had a look at your file. It all looks to be set up fine.
Working through the calculations I can't see any problem with the Sailwave software in its calculations - It appears to be working to the RYA specification for NHC2014, I do agree with you that in race 6 I would not expect their rating to change in the direction that it did. I appears to be a combination of 2 things which is causing it.
a) In this race they (the first 2) are classified as an extreme performer and therefore their rating doesn't get adjusted by such a large amount
b) The realignment is adjusting it by a relatively large amount.
Before the realignment the change had been in the correct direction.
In my opinion (I'm very happy to discuss or be proved wrong - The full calculations are available via the external spreadsheets if anyone wishes to investigate) this is a result of the RYA NHC2014 specification. There is a new specification for 2015 but this had a known issue with some extreme performers also adjusting in the wrong direction, and I have been waiting for this specification to be rectified officially together with some samples to prove the workings against before releasing it within Sailwave.
I would like the comments of the RYA
Jon
Jon Eskdale
03333 443377
07976 709777
On 29 June 2015 at 20:15, RichardTruscott@aol.com wrote:
Hi Jon
I believe that you have had communication with both Kirsty at the Royal Lymington YC and Alastair at the Lymington Town SC regarding both club's usage of the RYA NHC software embedded in the SailWave program.
We at the Royal Lymington have started using it for this year's racing and have just completed our Thursday Evening Early Series. This consisted of about 124 boats in 7 classes but it is the 3 club handicap classes consisting of some 59 boats and which use the RYA NHC software that we are concerned about here. These are designated LAH2, LAH3 and LAH4 in the attached Sailwave program.
With so many boats out on the water the only realistic way of inputting results quickly enough to announce results later that evening is to analyse all the classes together in one SailWave program with each class separated out. It is not realistic to run individual SailWave programs for each of the three club handicap classes.
Our understanding was that this was not a problem as the SailWave program could be set up to operate the different classes individually whether they be IRC, TCF or NHC.
An analysis of the results has however show up some strange results, whereby a boat that has come first or second does, in some cases see its handicap **reduced** for the next race whereas in most cases, and as logic would suggest, their handicap should **increase.**
For example, in the attached Sailwave program, the following boats saw a **reduction** in their handicap for their next race despite coming 1st or 2nd:
LAH class 2
‘Hound Dog’ 1st in race 6
‘Strega’ 2nd in race 6
LAH class 3
‘Pathogem’ 1st in race 3
‘Seascape’ 1st in race 7
‘Pallas Athene’ 2nd in race 3
‘Tokoloshe’ 2nd in race 6
‘Unity’ 2nd in race 7
Lymington Town SC report similar anomalies in the use of the RYA NHC software embedded in SailWave for their Solent Circuit last autumn.
We have been setting up the SailWave program for these events in line with your advice so, assuming the RYA NHC system is not meant to act in this way, either we have misinterpreted your advice or there is a bug in SailWave or in the RYA NHC software.
As the outgoing handicaps from the overall series seem sensible in that the leading boats are seeing increases in their handicaps for the next series and the back markers are seeing reductions, we will be carrying on with the software for our Thursday evening Late Series. However, we would appreciate some feedback, advice and/or an upgrade if necessary in the SailWave software.
Kind regards
Richard Truscott
Captain, Cruiser Racing, RLymYC