Thanks, Ralph!
Your description is the way we do it today... (more or less).
We have in the weekends from 100 to 120 Optimists. The last years they have been fleet racing.... If you can imagine the lenght of the starting line. If you devide that lenght with the lenght oft first leg, it will be very close to 1.....
So that is why flights seems to be a good idea. And it is.
The class association hav also decided that DNF/DSQ and codes like that should be " The sum of the two largest groups +1". That is actually for each weekend race.... Redress will not give this problem, I think.
The idea about a fixed score is probably a solution we need to consider more. Normally the first weekend race is the one with most competitors. Maybe use that one to decide DNC and DNF++ is a good idea too.
I do not fully agree with you in this:
"As the total number of competitors in the combined series increases, so would the value of DNC etc.
This is not normally an issue as in a long series there are a greater proportion of discards so that if a competitor has completed at least x races, the DNCs will be discarded."
My understanding of App.A, long series and DNC, is that it is much more valuable to come to the starting area than to not show up... If you're not in the "Starting area", which could mean on your way to the shore to fix a problem or something, you should be scored DNC. Also the consideration of having DNC to increase ( not vary) as the series continues, must be tought of in App. A. I do not have long experience, but this must be normal in long series?? The DNF and other codes does not increase, because they depends on the number of boats that came to the starting aerea. If SW could fix this for me (and increase DNC with the formula: Sum of the two largests flights +1), all would be satisfied....
Another consideration to do, is that Oppies are kids. Some are good, some are bad, someones are racing only because their parents wants them to , someone because their parents don't want them to, and other just because they like to be in a sailboat. For which ever reason, they deserve to be treated correct, and they do have the right to be treated with respect.
We do have sailors that becomes unbelieveable sad if they finish as #20, but also those who are happy if they were not the last, and are amazingly happy if they finish as #60.
Even though I don't like the idea about having a software to decide the rules, I think that it is on time to rewrite the rules for scoring Oppies in Norway!
I think the problem is solved.
Again : Thanks!
Regards, Martin
PS! Have I mentioned how to score Europe dinghies in Norway? Let me just say that SW can't.....
···
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph Tingle
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 7:37 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] SW 1.76 - Flights Merging Series
Hi Martin
Looking at your situation re Norwegian Oppies:
It seems to me that if you can imagine running each weekend without flights, you would simply merge
each series into one large one and where someone did not sail in that event, they would simply be
scored DNC. (rather like club racing but obviously many more competitors)
You mention non-Norwegian boats which obviously need to be deleted before merging
In the past, when faced with this situation, I have always re-scored before merging (or whatever) as
the whole idea of your series is surely how Norwegian competitors fared against each other to
produce an overall Norwegian series
As the total number of competitors in the combined series increases, so would the value of DNC etc.
This is not normally an issue as in a long series there are a greater proportion of discards so that
if a competitor has completed at least x races, the DNCs will be discarded.
If a competitor on a long series has to count a DNC, you would not want them to win anyway because
the objective is to get everyone to enter at least x races over a number of weekends.
So if you agree with this logic, just simply allow your scoring system to accept multiple 1sts, 2nds
etc & POW! hit the score series button (does this switch the light back on at the end of the
tunnel???)
To recognise that a DNF & other non-finishing codes deserve a differential from a DNC, A9 suggests
number of starters + 1 which as you have said causes a problem.
You do not say how many competitors you have at an event but if it is anything like the UK, you will
probably have large numbers & so I would set a fixed value for non starting and non finishing codes
If you have say 100 for DNC & 50 for non finishing codes (adjust to suit), will a few points either
way make any difference to the overall?
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Bolgen [mailto:martin@seilforening.no]
Sent: 08 July 2005 17:59
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sailwave] SW 1.76 - Flights... BUG?
Ok!
I'm close to the light, but just have to open my eyes to see it...
I'll be back!
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralph Tingle
To: sailwave@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 6:45 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] SW 1.76 - Flights... BUG?
Isn't life so clear when you finally see the light 
The whole reason why will still don't do scoring on bits of paper is that computers make life so
much easier & give us more time to do other things like get in the bar quicker.
SW gets the gold medal for being the fastest
Regards
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: Colin Jenkins [mailto:colin@sailwave.com]
Sent: 08 July 2005 11:00
To: Sailwave User Group
Subject: RE: [sailwave] SW 1.76 - Flights... BUG?
Hi Ralph,
> If you think of the simple principles of
> Flights & Starts, it is to enable the sailnumber
> wizard to calculate the race positions taking into
> consideration that 'sets' of boats started at different
> times i.e they were separate races.
The now chairman of the RYA explained to me a few years ago that all you
really need to score what is a now a "App LE Add C" regatta is the ability
to turn off race tie breaking. I didn't get it at the time, just nodded my
head and thought "yeaj right Eddie, so what about all this flight rotation
stuff". But I see what he means now. While the flight rotation and start
facilities are useful to get results into the software (and publish
start/flight schedules to the competitors) they are not really used
thereafter to score it. He's wrong in that there are now some twiddly bits
in Add C about discards etc but eseence he's correct and Sailwave 1.57 can
score a Add C regatta if you turn off race tie breaking - it's just harder
to input the results.
Regards,
Colin
www.sailwave.com
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