Thanks, Mark. I can get it as far as they did just by pasting from the
Web into Excel, but getting it in the format that Sailwave likes would
take a bit of extra effort.
I am trying to figure out what the PY numbers are for some of the boats at
our club. Many of these boats are rather old and I expect it has been some
time since they last submitted numbers for PY ratings.
I was merely wondering what the easiest way is to figure out these numbers.
Examples
Westerly Fulmar with Bilge keel 32ft
Carter 30
Micro Cupper 18
Micro Gem
Swift 18
Redfox 20
I was also wondering whether numbers downloaded from byronsoftware
http://www.byronsoftware.org.uk/bycn/ was the same as that used by Sailwave.
However it seems numbers there are in the 1000 range and sailwave uses 1.000
range. Is it simply a case of dividing by 1000 or are these two completely
different numbers.
What concerns me is that one says a Westerly Fulmar has a Handicap of 1016
whilst Echo file downloaded from Sailwave says 0.91 for a Westerly Fulmar
I also thought it would be a neat idea to allow published results to include
a link to each boats entry details such as LOA,LWL,Sail Area etc. Just a
thought.
I am trying to figure out what the PY numbers are for some of the boats at
our club. Many of these boats are rather old and I expect it has been some
time since they last submitted numbers for PY ratings.
I was merely wondering what the easiest way is to figure out these numbers.
Examples
Westerly Fulmar with Bilge keel 32ft
Carter 30
Micro Cupper 18
Micro Gem
Swift 18
Redfox 20
I was also wondering whether numbers downloaded from byronsoftware
http://www.byronsoftware.org.uk/bycn/ was the same as that used by Sailwave.
However it seems numbers there are in the 1000 range and sailwave uses 1.000
range. Is it simply a case of dividing by 1000 or are these two completely
different numbers.
What concerns me is that one says a Westerly Fulmar has a Handicap of 1016
whilst Echo file downloaded from Sailwave says 0.91 for a Westerly Fulmar
I also thought it would be a neat idea to allow published results to include
a link to each boats entry details such as LOA,LWL,Sail Area etc. Just a
thought.
Terry
a Fulmar IBF 2K was 1010 in 1997
Carter 30 IBF F was 1003 in 2001
Micro 18 OB D was 1053 in 2001
I cant ever remember there being a PY for the Swift 18, or the Redfox
hope that helps
John
I am trying to figure out what the PY numbers are for some of the boats at
our club. Many of these boats are rather old and I expect it has been some
time since they last submitted numbers for PY ratings.
I was merely wondering what the easiest way is to figure out these numbers.
Examples
Westerly Fulmar with Bilge keel 32ft
Carter 30
Micro Cupper 18
Micro Gem
Swift 18
Redfox 20
I was also wondering whether numbers downloaded from byronsoftware
http://www.byronsoftware.org.uk/bycn/ was the same as that used by Sailwave.
However it seems numbers there are in the 1000 range and sailwave uses 1.000
range. Is it simply a case of dividing by 1000 or are these two completely
different numbers.
What concerns me is that one says a Westerly Fulmar has a Handicap of 1016
whilst Echo file downloaded from Sailwave says 0.91 for a Westerly Fulmar
I also thought it would be a neat idea to allow published results to include
a link to each boats entry details such as LOA,LWL,Sail Area etc. Just a
thought.
Thank you very much for providing these. Also thank you to Ralph for
suggesting for me to contact the RYA, however I wish to dispute the current
handicap system used by the club. It would not be possible to dispute these
figures if I can not refer to some sort of published (& recognised)
document.
In this system it appears the Micro 18 has a lower handicap than both the
Carter and the Fulmar. I noticed the oddity a week ago when the Micro 18 and
the Fulmar were entered in a race with PY Handicaps and the Micro entered
with 1069 and the Fulmar entered with 1054. The Fulmar said that his
handicap was supposed to be 1014 but because he was built with a bilge keel
instead of a usual fin keel, he gets a rating of 1054 instead of 1014.
It would be very handy if there was a reliable online reference point where
all data could be accessed to stop people trying to cheat by entering
incorrect handicaps.
Terry
from my records
a Fulmar IBF 2K was 1010 in 1997
Carter 30 IBF F was 1003 in 2001
Micro 18 OB D was 1053 in 2001
I cant ever remember there being a PY for the Swift 18, or the Redfox
hope that helps
John
>
> Can somebody provide some assistance.
>
> I am trying to figure out what the PY numbers are for some
of the boats at
> our club. Many of these boats are rather old and I expect
it has been some
> time since they last submitted numbers for PY ratings.
>
> I was merely wondering what the easiest way is to figure out these
> numbers.
>
> Examples
> Westerly Fulmar with Bilge keel 32ft
> Carter 30
> Micro Cupper 18
> Micro Gem
> Swift 18
> Redfox 20
>
> I was also wondering whether numbers downloaded from byronsoftware
>
> http://www.byronsoftware.org.uk/bycn/ was the same as that used by
> Sailwave.
> However it seems numbers there are in the 1000 range and
sailwave uses
> 1.000
> range. Is it simply a case of dividing by 1000 or are these
two completely
> different numbers.
>
> What concerns me is that one says a Westerly Fulmar has a
Handicap of 1016
> whilst Echo file downloaded from Sailwave says 0.91 for a
Westerly Fulmar
>
> I also thought it would be a neat idea to allow published
results to
> include
> a link to each boats entry details such as LOA,LWL,Sail
Area etc. Just a
> thought.
>
> Regards
> Terry
>
>
>
>
> -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
> http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
>
> Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
> sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Terry
the years I quoted is the year they were in the RYA PY publication. Interestingly 1997 gives a fin keel Fulmar IB3 F as 1023.
The 2004 and 2005 PY list gives the bilge keel Fulmar IBF 2K with spinnaker as 1016
However as a handicapper, I have always treated the published PY of little raced boats with some suspicion, and my club has amended some with experience of their performance. I think this lack of meaningful data is why so many boats have now been dropped from the RYA list.
If you really want to go back, the old PY system listed (in 1986)
Micro 18 OB D as 112
Micro Gem OB D as 113
1995 list gave
Carter 30 IBF F 105
Fulmar IB2 2K 109
Micro 18 OB D 111
when system changed in 1996 these became
Carter 30 IBF F 1003
Fulmar IB2 2K 1033
Micro 18 OB D 1053
Micro Gem OB D 1069
Thank you very much for providing these. Also thank you to Ralph for
suggesting for me to contact the RYA, however I wish to dispute the current
handicap system used by the club. It would not be possible to dispute these
figures if I can not refer to some sort of published (& recognised)
document.
In this system it appears the Micro 18 has a lower handicap than both the
Carter and the Fulmar. I noticed the oddity a week ago when the Micro 18 and
the Fulmar were entered in a race with PY Handicaps and the Micro entered
with 1069 and the Fulmar entered with 1054. The Fulmar said that his
handicap was supposed to be 1014 but because he was built with a bilge keel
instead of a usual fin keel, he gets a rating of 1054 instead of 1014.
It would be very handy if there was a reliable online reference point where
all data could be accessed to stop people trying to cheat by entering
incorrect handicaps.
Terry
from my records
a Fulmar IBF 2K was 1010 in 1997
Carter 30 IBF F was 1003 in 2001
Micro 18 OB D was 1053 in 2001
I cant ever remember there being a PY for the Swift 18, or the Redfox
hope that helps
John
>
> Can somebody provide some assistance.
>
> I am trying to figure out what the PY numbers are for some
of the boats at
> our club. Many of these boats are rather old and I expect
it has been some
> time since they last submitted numbers for PY ratings.
>
> I was merely wondering what the easiest way is to figure out these
> numbers.
>
> Examples
> Westerly Fulmar with Bilge keel 32ft
> Carter 30
> Micro Cupper 18
> Micro Gem
> Swift 18
> Redfox 20
>
> I was also wondering whether numbers downloaded from byronsoftware
>
> http://www.byronsoftware.org.uk/bycn/ was the same as that used by
> Sailwave.
> However it seems numbers there are in the 1000 range and
sailwave uses
> 1.000
> range. Is it simply a case of dividing by 1000 or are these
two completely
> different numbers.
>
> What concerns me is that one says a Westerly Fulmar has a
Handicap of 1016
> whilst Echo file downloaded from Sailwave says 0.91 for a
Westerly Fulmar
>
> I also thought it would be a neat idea to allow published
results to
> include
> a link to each boats entry details such as LOA,LWL,Sail
Area etc. Just a
> thought.
>
> Regards
> Terry
>
> -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
> http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
>
> Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
> sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
--------------------~-->
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--------------------------------------------------------------
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I would support John's comments & the possible reasons why the classes have been dropped from the
RYA list.
The RYA should hopefully be able to give you PY's when they were last published.
I have had a similar problem in the past & managed to get the sailing committee to change their view
by quoting an historical PY from the RYA along with its relationship to the PY of other classes at
that time (which are still in the published list)
It is not an exact science & you will need to make sure that configurations are the same, but you
may be able to convince the club that if the difference in PY was x some years ago, it is reasonable
to expect the difference to remain as x today.
If you cannot get 'credible' data your fallback is to continue with current numbers & use YR2
calculations to work out what it should be. The calcs in YR2 & take a bit of getting used to but at
least they are the recognised/'official' method to produce PY's for an unlisted class
Terry
the years I quoted is the year they were in the RYA PY publication.
Interestingly 1997 gives a fin keel Fulmar IB3 F as 1023.
The 2004 and 2005 PY list gives the bilge keel Fulmar IBF 2K with spinnaker
as 1016
However as a handicapper, I have always treated the published PY of little
raced boats with some suspicion, and my club has amended some with
experience of their performance. I think this lack of meaningful data is why
so many boats have now been dropped from the RYA list.
If you really want to go back, the old PY system listed (in 1986)
Micro 18 OB D as 112
Micro Gem OB D as 113
1995 list gave
Carter 30 IBF F 105
Fulmar IB2 2K 109
Micro 18 OB D 111
when system changed in 1996 these became
Carter 30 IBF F 1003
Fulmar IB2 2K 1033
Micro 18 OB D 1053
Micro Gem OB D 1069
lots of numbers to ponder on!
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry" <terry.home@home-it.com>
To: <sailwave@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 11:34 PM
Subject: RE: [sailwave] OT PY Numbers ???
Hi John
Thank you very much for providing these. Also thank you to Ralph for
suggesting for me to contact the RYA, however I wish to dispute the
current
handicap system used by the club. It would not be possible to dispute
these
figures if I can not refer to some sort of published (& recognised)
document.
In this system it appears the Micro 18 has a lower handicap than both the
Carter and the Fulmar. I noticed the oddity a week ago when the Micro 18
and
the Fulmar were entered in a race with PY Handicaps and the Micro entered
with 1069 and the Fulmar entered with 1054. The Fulmar said that his
handicap was supposed to be 1014 but because he was built with a bilge
keel
instead of a usual fin keel, he gets a rating of 1054 instead of 1014.
It would be very handy if there was a reliable online reference point
where
all data could be accessed to stop people trying to cheat by entering
incorrect handicaps.
Terry
from my records
a Fulmar IBF 2K was 1010 in 1997
Carter 30 IBF F was 1003 in 2001
Micro 18 OB D was 1053 in 2001
I cant ever remember there being a PY for the Swift 18, or the Redfox
hope that helps
John
>
> Can somebody provide some assistance.
>
> I am trying to figure out what the PY numbers are for some
of the boats at
> our club. Many of these boats are rather old and I expect
it has been some
> time since they last submitted numbers for PY ratings.
>
> I was merely wondering what the easiest way is to figure out these
> numbers.
>
> Examples
> Westerly Fulmar with Bilge keel 32ft
> Carter 30
> Micro Cupper 18
> Micro Gem
> Swift 18
> Redfox 20
>
> I was also wondering whether numbers downloaded from byronsoftware
>
> http://www.byronsoftware.org.uk/bycn/ was the same as that used by
> Sailwave.
> However it seems numbers there are in the 1000 range and
sailwave uses
> 1.000
> range. Is it simply a case of dividing by 1000 or are these
two completely
> different numbers.
>
> What concerns me is that one says a Westerly Fulmar has a
Handicap of 1016
> whilst Echo file downloaded from Sailwave says 0.91 for a
Westerly Fulmar
>
> I also thought it would be a neat idea to allow published
results to
> include
> a link to each boats entry details such as LOA,LWL,Sail
Area etc. Just a
> thought.
>
> Regards
> Terry
>
>
>
>
> -!- http://www.fastmail.fm/ -!- http://www.spampal.org/ -!-
> http://www.sailwave.com/ -!-
>
> Convert to daily digest of emails send blank email to:
> sailwave-digest@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
--------------------~-->
Give the gift of life to a sick child.
Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital's 'Thanks & Giving.' http://us.click.yahoo.com/5iY7fA/6WnJAA/Y3ZIAA/A1TolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------
------~->
However it seems numbers there are in the 1000 range and sailwave
uses 1.000 range. Is it simply a case of dividing by 1000 or are
these two completely different numbers.
What concerns me is that one says a Westerly Fulmar has a Handicap
of 1016 whilst Echo file downloaded from Sailwave says 0.91 for a
Westerly Fulmar
They are different numbers, arrived at by entirely different
methods. The Echo numbers and IRC numbers are based on measurement.
The Portsmouth numbeers are based on performance. The whole point of
the Portsmouth system is that numbers can be changed (once the Crew
Skill Factor has been eliminated) to allow for boats sailing in
different conditions or in the case of cruisers, different
configurations (keel etc.).
Of course they are also different when it comes to the calculation.
In Portsmouth the lapsed times is multiplied by 1000/PN, while in
IRC/Echo the lapsed time is multiplied by the TCF.