Same skipper different boat in long series

Joanne12193 · 27 January 2021 00:03

Is there any plan to make changes so that Sailwave can easily facilitate handling same skipper in different boat in a long series?
I understand about changing the PN for the race when the different boat is raced.
But it would be easier if skippers could be registered for each boat they sail separately.
And then combine skipper/boat results for overall results. This would allow fleet scoring to be done easily.
Thanks.

sykesk01 · 27 January 2021 08:17

We use the Race Rating option too , and add a note to Helm.
Not ideal but does help with Clarity in results.

Notes in Summary table ok, A bit confusing in Race tables.
It does allow me to spot them so I can manually remove them before uploading PY return to RYA

Maybe an option to Select Race Class?
Auto Notes R2, RS300/ R4 RS300 ,or See Race Results for Class Details.
And Class Changed to “Mixed” in Summary Table?
Option to only display notes in Summary table?

Note - Using ALT Sailno can help if using Results Wizard

Cheers

Keith

Sailwave · 27 January 2021 10:36

I’m open to suggestions
There are several problems that need to be overcome though

There is nothing stopping you have the competitors entered twice in different boats and then publishing the individual races works well
Once you merge them it is difficult to separate them again for future races and sharing results with RYA etc.

You can always have another series file which is the merged file (Merged by helm name) which you use to publish the series results from adding the results to this file at the end of each event.
You could use the File - Merge to semi-automate this.

I could consider a tool to do this automatically (Which would be a considerable amount of work) This would as I envisage it be a button which would:-

Save the current file
Create a copy of this with a name either just Merged or Merged plus the original filename
It would then merge the Competitors of the same fleet and helmname
The merged competitors would be a new competitor with the original still there but marked as excluded so it would be possible to check
Publishing would only be sensible to publish the individual races from the original file and the series from the merged file - so published results would be two separate files

Would this be an acceptable solution?
Or any ideas

sykesk01 · 27 January 2021 11:12

Hi Jon,
Just to clarify what we’er doing may well be different for Joanne (Sorry if I’ve muddy the waters), we allow sailors to switch boats in the same series but count them as 1 entry. (We do have some club rules around this ) its primarily to allow helm to sail single handed when their crew is unavailable but still qualify for the series
Keith

Joanne12193 · 27 January 2021 19:54

Hi,
Thanks for your suggestion to use merge.
I will try it out. Sounds a lot better than trying to manually delete race results and create new files.
Joanne

Joanne12193 · 28 January 2021 19:06

My goal is to have two files - one for overall handicap scoring and one for fleet scoring. I would want to publish overall scores weekly.
This is what I worked out.

enter results in fleet scoring with a record for each helm/boat combination.
save file.
edit fleet file by deleting previously entered races (from previous week). save file as “week 2” for example.
open the overall file. merge in “week 2” file using first option in merge.
edit handicap rating where needed for secondary boat (the handicap rating changes to the primary boat during the merge)
score series, save file.

Two changes in SW would help streamline this procedure.
Option to select individual races for merging.
Revise so that Handicap rating does not change to primary boat during merge.

Comments?
Joanne

Art_Engel · 28 January 2021 19:47

The rulebook says that entry and scoring is done by boat/hull (typically
the sail number is the hull number so the default of scoring by sail
number works just fine). So long as that remains as the default I don’t
see a problem with having other options.

I think what is being asked is:

Ability to merge an existing series from another BLW file and choose
to import/merge only certain races of the file to be merged. [This would
save the step of creating the single race as a stand-alone BLW file
before merging that file as a new race.]
Ability to have the rating for any merged boats remain as the
imported/merged rating rather than reverting to the default rating for
that boat.

#1 sounds like something that might get used occasionally, as when
someone wants to have a championship series that takes individual races
from other series. Now, you could obviously just import all the races
and delete the ones you don’t want to keep but the change would make
things slightly easier.

#2 sounds like something that will occur far less often but certainly
could happen - as when the rating for a boat changes partway through a
series. Where I sail handicap ratings can change at any time rather than
just once a year between seasons so that might be helpful. But, since
there is an option to change a rating and have it continue for all
future races I think what we typically encounter is already covered.

MY OBSERVATION - Every additional option makes SW slightly harder to
understand and use. In general, I tend to think simpler is better. But,
with many options hidden in the User Interface by default you can get
the best of both worlds. So, more options cannot hurt so long as they
need to be enabled before being visible to confuse the less-experienced
users. Both of the items requested are part of the merge process so my
comment probably doesn’t apply to them as adding them to the merge
dialogs should not cause confusion so long as they are adequately
explained and not checked by default.

Art

Joanne12193 · 28 January 2021 21:24

Thanks for your comment. Yes, merge all races then delete duplicates would be better.

As for #2, our club allows skippers to change class in a long series and then all races included in overall scoring using PN.
I would use this feature every week.

sykesk01 · 29 January 2021 08:59

Hi Joanne,

Not sure if this is what you are trying achieve or not…

If you just want your results all scored by both Separately by Fleet and by PY, you could use competitor aliasing. It basically uses the same results twice so so you can score By Fleet and Overall from one file, this would work fine if the Change in boat is in the Same Fleet and facilitated by changing Race rating it wouldn’t work if you competitors were changing to a different Fleet… (I suspect you already know the above) I believe you would need to merge.
Alias Example attached at end

Merge tip.
In the past where I have had a requirement for 2 separate files, (and when less experienced members were input the results direct into sailwave.) I used a Daily results file and merged this into the 2 series files, Save deleting races form anywhere.

On Rating Merge - If when a skipper changed Fleet you set the RACE rating in the new boat (it will be the same as the new class rating) for the rest of the series the merge will bring in the new Rating.

You would need to annotate the skipper in the combined file to say change of boat.

Combined Fleet

Sailed: 2, Discards: 0, To count: 2, Entries: 5, Scoring system: Appendix A

Rank	Fleet	Class	SailNo	HelmName	Rating	R1	R2	Total	Nett
1st	Combined	LASER	152425	Keith Sykes	1100	3.0	3.0	6.0	6.0
2nd	Combined	49ER		Anna Zmura	697	6.0 DNC	1.0	7.0	7.0
3rd	Combined	LASER	213231	Fred Smith	1100	1.0	6.0 DNC	7.0	7.0
4th	Combined	RS 800		Keith Sykes	799	6.0 DNC	2.0	8.0	8.0
5th	Combined	RS 300		Anna Zmura	970	2.0	6.0 DNC	8.0	8.0

Fast Fleet

Sailed: 1, Discards: 0, To count: 1, Entries: 2, Scoring system: Appendix A

Rank	Fleet	Boat	Class	SailNo	Club	HelmName	CrewName	Rating	R2	Total	Nett
1st	Fast		49ER			Anna Zmura		697	1.0	1.0	1.0
2nd	Fast		RS 800			Keith Sykes		799	2.0	2.0	2.0